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Neither do Chinese workers. They work for Yuan. But, of course, traditional German piano builders would want to be paid in Deutsche Marks. That's because the true and imported Ritmuller workers would not have heard of the Euro.

Is exported labor subject to the same duty and taxes as pianos?

Norbert's blatant plug edited to conform to PW standards.

No kidding.

Me too.....

Norbert

Marty, I know that, I have a copy of Mr Fine's book, it is in my piano stool along with the publications of Messrs Reblitz and Pearce. There are however legions of piano buyers who have never heard of any of these works and surely anything that might help them to avoid being fleeced ought to be seen as helpful rather than the opposite, even if it duplicates information in Fine....or am I missing something?

Hi Dara!

While I haven't worked in a pacific rim piano factory I have spent a few days touring and helping to lead tours of factories in China, Korea, and Indonesia.

I made it a habit to eat lunch each day in the worker cafeteria talking to the line workers. In particular I asked about their standard of living. Even though the average monthly income was a fraction of that in the U.S., the costs of food and shelter were correspondingly lower.

The bottom line is that a job in a piano factory in China and Indonesia pays enough for the worker to live in the equivalent of a lower class full-time worker here. They have a home (usually communal with relatives), ample food, electricity, etc.

I would compare it to a low-skilled construction worker here.

JC, from your question, I wasn't sure you knew about Fine. So, ...

Michael:

While I certainly don't remember your visit in the same light as you portrayed it, by you own admission you "thought the Brodmann sounded pretty good" until I "said the C word."

This just proves that when bias is eliminated, and one uses their ears to purchase a piano, which is logical since what you're buying is sound, some of the Chinese built instruments can easily compare to the most respected instruments on the market today.

While your post gives credit to Apple for putting "their reputation behind their FoxConn phones and laptops," your logic does not extend to Brodmann, a Vienese company that also puts its reputation - and that of its President Christian Hoerfel and Engineer Colin Taylor (formerly Bosendorfer CEO and Chief Engineer respectively) - on the line for the pianos built by Parsons. To me, that's duplicitous at best.

As to your visit, and the fact that you didn't see or play a Ritmuller - you will recall that your visit was somewhat brief, and that you preferred brighter sound to more rounded tone. The Ritmuller products are decisively (and purposely) more rounded in approach to sound and it was a conscious decision on my part to have you listen to a Brodmann rather than a Ritmuller.

Regardless, you found the piano that meets your needs and fits your tone profile, and hearty congratulations to you on that purchase. Kawai builds very nice and reliable instruments, and having sold them for over 25 years, I know your purchase will bring your family years of pleasure.

The OP has clearly stated that she prefers the sound of the Ritmuller to that of the GE-30. You chastise her for that preference and demean everyone who suggests she purchase the instrument she likes the sound of. It is interesting to note that it took an Rx-5 (6'6) instrument to convince you to purchase it over the 6'piano built in ... the "C" word. It would be interesting, given your self-proclaimed scientific curiosity, to see which instrument you would select if each brand were covered over and you judged the pianos simply by their tone quality.

Oh wait, you did that.... and then I mentioned the "C" word.

"Ende gut - alles gut"

May everybody find the pianos of his/her dreams.
There's surely many choices out there.

'Tone & touch' plus 'within budget' is what counts in my book.

Others may see things differently or add other conditions to it.

Thanks for the patience everybody - interesting ride...

cheers,

Norbert

Greetings Norbert,

Are you referring to your thread, 'Steinway: World's Finest' ?

alright, I am confused..... can't decide which one to go with.

Not to belabor this, but I guess I'm going to anyway.

There bio says Hoerfel was VP of sales, not CEO.
http://www.brodmann-pianos.at/index.php?id=colin_taylor&L=3%20%5B0%2C0%2C17398%5D

Taylor was a concert tech and then Area Sales for Bosendorfer, not chief engineer.
http://www.brodmann-pianos.at/index.php?id=christian_hoeferl&L=3%20%5B0%2C0%2C17398%5D

And I actually prefer a mellower tone. Kawai's, old Steinways, M&H's. I wanted to buy your RX-2 but I really was convinced you weren't trying to sell it but using it to draw in foot traffic and then to show your Broadmann's. Pretty smart. I couldn't see what else you had but I assumed you didn't show me bc you thought they were over my budget. So I found another dealer who had the new Kawai GX's and the RX-5 and looooved the the RX-5.

Yes, I did have a good impression of the Brodmann you demo'd to me but the price you gave me was over my budget, and yes the "C" word didn't help. I was able to get the a 6'6" Kawai for something like $5K+ less than your 6' Brodmann.

But seriously, I do feel for you guys. I know you must get this everyday, people like me who hear the "C" word and start walking backwards. Hopefully it will change soon and I'll trade in my Kawai for a Pearl River.

michaelh,

are you enjoying your new Kawai 6'6" piano ?
it seems you've enjoyed denigrating oriental pianos in your brief time on PW.

if you really did get the Kawai RX-5 for $5K cheaper than the Brodmann,
you got a fantastic deal
and you just purchased a very fine Asian piano.

edit -
brodmann187 sells for several thousand $ , below the price you mention

If I remember correctly I was quoted around $24K for the Brodmann 6'1.

Steve: I found your post about Chinese piano factories very interesting. I have a couple of follow-up questions. First, do you speak Chinese? Second, were you able to visit the homes of the workers whose standard of living you mention? It seems to me that a low-skilled construction worker in this country is likely to be among the working poor, so I would be interested in whether you had actually seen the standard of living of enough workers to form a reliable, and not propaganda-driven, impression. Third, who sponsored your visits? Since it seems likely to me that whoever sponsored your visits and planned your tours had a strong incentive for you to get a positive impression of the industry and the workers' standard of living, it would have been great if you had been able to go off-tour, as it were, to try to see what things are really like for the workers. I'm not sure that would have been easy to do at all or even possible to do safely though, which sends its own message.

I am happy to agree that Chinese-made pianos have made light-years of progress in quality in all respects. I am not sure about the standard of living of their workers, though.

Of course it is ultimately your decision, my recommendation is select the piano that when you get it home you will be happy with the sound and touch for the price you paid.

Good luck with your decision,

Jonathan

Given that so much of what we buy is made in China I'm inclined to think that you're an outlier not mainstream. But I wouldn't trade an RX-5 for a Pearl River.

Zhengy4,

If this were 2000 instead of 2013, the decision of which piano is more durable or will last longer would be a "slam dunk" in favor of the Kawai. However, this IS 2013, and now I would say that neither piano is dramatically more durable than the other.

Kawai have been around a long time and have proven that they make good, solid pianos. That said, Pearl River quality control has improved recently to the point that I don't think you will have to worry about a Ritmuller piano falling apart in 10 years. If you are still unsure about Ritmuller longevity, have a trusted independent piano technician examine the instrument.

If the two instruments are priced the same, and if you don't prefer the touch and tone of one instrument to the other, I'd opt for the Kawai. However, if you DO prefer the touch & tone of the Ritmuller, get that one.

You mean those workers that moved from abject poverty in the rural areas, where sometimes they didn't eat everyday? To try to make more money and provide for their families?

You know, when the choice lies between having no money and having a sweatshop job, gimmee the sweat shop job. OTOH, building pianos is not piece work in a sweatshop.

I'm not saying China is a workman's paradise. I am saying they are doing a pretty good job of raising their national standard of living, primarily through industrialization.

If it makes you feel better to pay for $30k for a piano which performs no better than a $15 or $20K piano, feel free. Pianos are individual instrument choices, anyway.

Just remember...one of the reasons so many people could afford an Estonia, especially ten years ago, was the exchange rate and the pay scales of the country's economy. Same reason you used to could buy a Petrof reasonably.

I suppose those factories should have paid their employees according to German wage scales and they would have produced a better piano.

And a lot less people would have had the opportunity to enjoy purchasing one.

A good piano is where you find it. What makes it a really good piano, is when you can also can afford to buy it.

Actually, Jonathan, Kawai is no longer the only firm using ABS & carbon fiber in their actions. Mason & Hamlin have also joined the "plastic party", as have Steingraeber-Phoenix.

That said, you are right, the rest of the piano industry has not gotten on board the ABS-carbon-fiber bandwagon. Why I'm not sure.

Not to mention that Wessell, Nickel & Gross is supplying composite actions and action parts for rebuilding.

LOL. Marty, I thought Wessell, Nickel & Gross was part of Mason & Hamlin!