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#2107830 - 06/25/13 01:33 PM Re: How well built is Ritmuller piano? [Re: zhengy4]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7439
Loc: Rochester MN
How much more absurd can this thread possibly get?
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2107837 - 06/25/13 01:53 PM Re: How well built is Ritmuller piano? [Re: zhengy4]
Dara Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/18/09
Posts: 1035
Loc: west coast island, canada
It would be interesting to hear from piano factory workers here on the forum. Are there any members of PW who work in a piano factory? I don't recall any.

What are the conditions like, wages, perception of build quality, etc.

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#2107851 - 06/25/13 02:13 PM Re: How well built is Ritmuller piano? [Re: zhengy4]
Jeff Clef Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/05/08
Posts: 4425
Loc: San Jose, CA
"...I don't care if it was built by Chinese welders by the light of of a New Moon, after sacrificing a virgin..."

Fat chance, Jolly--- they're as scarce in China as anywhere else.
_________________________
Clef


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#2107862 - 06/25/13 02:22 PM Re: How well built is Ritmuller piano? [Re: zhengy4]
Dara Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/18/09
Posts: 1035
Loc: west coast island, canada
An add on to my previous post...

We hear from piano owners, those searching for pianos, dealers, technicians, rebuilders ...
Surely we could occasionally hear from those that build the instruments.
I realize language may be a hindrance for those that don't speak the language used on this site. And possible internet access and freedom to express ones opinion.

It seems rather odd that this forum is all about pianos yet we don't hear from those that actually make them.

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#2107871 - 06/25/13 02:35 PM Re: How well built is Ritmuller piano? [Re: zhengy4]
michaelha Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/05/13
Posts: 871
Well Chinese workers earn a couple dollars per day, sure certain things cost less there than here, but certain things (like computers) are more/less the same. I have no idea how they get online, if they have shared computers. I've seen some documentaries of their lifestyle in the factories where they factories provide them beds in shared rooms. It was very, very basic, didn't notice any computers in there.

In one documentary, I forget what factory this was, but one thing that stuck out in my head is one lady said she earns about $1/day and how that was much better than making $0/day where she came from. She came from the country side where they grow their own food to survive, maybe barter with neighbors to even things out. It didn't seem like they had any money to buy things, computers, internet access, etc.

My guess is they aren't hanging out on PB.
_________________________
Casio CDP-100
2012 Kawai RX-5 BLAK

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#2107879 - 06/25/13 02:46 PM Re: How well built is Ritmuller piano? [Re: zhengy4]
Dara Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/18/09
Posts: 1035
Loc: west coast island, canada
I wasn't just referring to factories in Asia.
There are lots of English speaking workers in other countries where pianos are manufactured. Perhaps even in the USA smile
And I wouldn't be surprised if there were some Ritmuller/Pearl River employees who speak/write some english and have access to, or own a computer.

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#2107907 - 06/25/13 03:52 PM Re: How well built is Ritmuller piano? [Re: zhengy4]
MCha Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/13/11
Posts: 33
This is my take on piano making (take it at face value, which is probably $0 :))

I just finished reading "Grand Obsession" and it seems that the people who build the performance tier pianos in Europe actually go through many years as apprentices to perfect their skills. They learn from the "masters" before becoming one themselves. They devote their lives to the same "job". But more than a job, you can tell (from the book, at least) that they have a passion for what they do.

While it would not be fair to expect the same level of skills from workers that build a consumer-grade piano, you would still want the people who build these pianos to have the commitment to build a good product. I wonder how long the people who work at the factories in China last in their jobs. From what I understand, turnover at Foxconn and other factories is pretty high - people don't really care about what they do and they'll move on to better paying jobs the moment the opportunity presents. So my concern would be, if people don't really care about the quality of their work and they don't take pride in it (because they are just waiting for a higher paying job), how good can the end product be? You may have the best Quality Control team in place, but the QA people cannot have their eyes on all the employees 100% of the time. It'd be interesting to know how the Chinese piano makers select their employees and how long they stay at their jobs.

I guess I'm bemoaning the fact that it is getting harder and harder to find people who are committed to their professions and really care to produce good quality items. I see a lack of this type of "care" in the US, in all industries (especially home contractors). I see too many normal folks who just go to work for the paycheck and don't really care whether they make crappy stuff or not. I bet this happens even more in China where the pay is so much lower.

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#2107961 - 06/25/13 04:50 PM Re: How well built is Ritmuller piano? [Re: zhengy4]
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 14139
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
Quote:
It'd be interesting to know how the Chinese piano makers select their employees and how long they stay at their jobs.


I don't know how "Chinese piano makers" select their employees but I can tell you that Lothar Thomma was very selective for the team building the Ritmüller Premium pianos.

I talked to Lothar about this personally several times.

Those selected, were a handpicked group of special people. The applicants had to prove through tough testing being highly committed to learn and apply a very high standard to their work. They also are getting paid above scale.

Those who wouldn't cut it are told upfront to be dismissed back into "the general work force"

Apparently an extremely shameful thing to happen in China....

Norbert


Edited by Norbert (06/25/13 04:52 PM)
_________________________
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#2107967 - 06/25/13 05:02 PM Re: How well built is Ritmuller piano? [Re: zhengy4]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7439
Loc: Rochester MN
Wherever the pianos are built, I firmly believe that all of the factory workers should be imported from the same country from which the name is borrowed.
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2107975 - 06/25/13 05:07 PM Re: How well built is Ritmuller piano? [Re: zhengy4]
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 14139
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
Quote:
Wherever the pianos are built, I firmly believe that all of the factory workers should be imported from the same country from which the name is borrowed.


Nah, German workers don't work for $ 1.25....

If really wanting to support German workers, you would need to buy a Sauter!

grin help whome
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : C.Sauter, Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

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#2107989 - 06/25/13 05:31 PM Re: How well built is Ritmuller piano? [Re: Norbert]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7439
Loc: Rochester MN
Originally Posted By: Norbert
Quote:
Wherever the pianos are built, I firmly believe that all of the factory workers should be imported from the same country from which the name is borrowed.

Nah, German workers don't work for $ 1.25....

Neither do Chinese workers. They work for Yuan. But, of course, traditional German piano builders would want to be paid in Deutsche Marks. That's because the true and imported Ritmuller workers would not have heard of the Euro.

Is exported labor subject to the same duty and taxes as pianos?

Norbert's blatant plug edited to conform to PW standards. grin
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2108005 - 06/25/13 05:55 PM Re: How well built is Ritmuller piano? [Re: zhengy4]
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 14139
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
Quote:
, traditional German piano builders would want to be paid in Deutsche Marks.


No kidding.

Me too.....

Norbert grin
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : C.Sauter, Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

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#2108010 - 06/25/13 06:05 PM Re: How well built is Ritmuller piano? [Re: Minnesota Marty]
Jean Claude Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/18/11
Posts: 365
Loc: France
Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty
Jean Claude,

Most of the information about who makes what is available in the brand profiles in the "A&D Piano Buyer." With new editions being published twice a year, it is the most up to date source. It is available in a free online version:

www.pianobuyer.com



Marty, I know that, I have a copy of Mr Fine's book, it is in my piano stool along with the publications of Messrs Reblitz and Pearce. There are however legions of piano buyers who have never heard of any of these works and surely anything that might help them to avoid being fleeced ought to be seen as helpful rather than the opposite, even if it duplicates information in Fine....or am I missing something?

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#2108033 - 06/25/13 06:42 PM Re: How well built is Ritmuller piano? [Re: Dara]
Steve Cohen Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 10490
Loc: Maryland/DC/No. VA
Originally Posted By: Dara
It would be interesting to hear from piano factory workers here on the forum. Are there any members of PW who work in a piano factory? I don't recall any.

What are the conditions like, wages, perception of build quality, etc.



Hi Dara!

While I haven't worked in a pacific rim piano factory I have spent a few days touring and helping to lead tours of factories in China, Korea, and Indonesia.

I made it a habit to eat lunch each day in the worker cafeteria talking to the line workers. In particular I asked about their standard of living. Even though the average monthly income was a fraction of that in the U.S., the costs of food and shelter were correspondingly lower.

The bottom line is that a job in a piano factory in China and Indonesia pays enough for the worker to live in the equivalent of a lower class full-time worker here. They have a home (usually communal with relatives), ample food, electricity, etc.

I would compare it to a low-skilled construction worker here.
_________________________
Piano Industry Consultant- http://www.linkedin.com/pub/steve-cohen/6/b92/b80

Consultant & Contributing Editor - Acoustic & Digital Piano Buyer

Jasons Music
Maryland/DC/No. VA
Since 1937.

www.jasonsmusic.com
My postings, unless stated otherwise, are my personal opinions, not those of my clients.

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#2108038 - 06/25/13 06:48 PM Re: How well built is Ritmuller piano? [Re: Jean Claude]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7439
Loc: Rochester MN
Originally Posted By: Jean Claude
Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty
Jean Claude,

Most of the information about who makes what is available in the brand profiles in the "A&D Piano Buyer." With new editions being published twice a year, it is the most up to date source. It is available in a free online version:

www.pianobuyer.com



Marty, I know that, I have a copy of Mr Fine's book, it is in my piano stool along with the publications of Messrs Reblitz and Pearce. There are however legions of piano buyers who have never heard of any of these works and surely anything that might help them to avoid being fleeced ought to be seen as helpful rather than the opposite, even if it duplicates information in Fine....or am I missing something?

JC, from your question, I wasn't sure you knew about Fine. So, ...
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2108052 - 06/25/13 07:13 PM Re: How well built is Ritmuller piano? [Re: michaelha]
master88er Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/15/07
Posts: 861
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area
Originally Posted By: michaelh
Originally Posted By: rlinkt
michaelh,

Have you actually tried the Ritmuller? Since you are in the bay area, there are at least two dealers in the area -- one to the south and one a bit to the north. You may be able to test drive a ritmuller and a kawai rx-2 side by side in one of them. I did -- and came to conclusion quite contrary to your assertions here. And I was not looking for a piece of decoration either.



You're probably referring to R. Kassman. Yes, I visited his shop. And I know the bait RX-2 he puts in Craigslist, I went for it. Yeah, when I got there he started bashing how horrible Kawai's are and steered me over to his Brodmann's. He didn't show me a Ritmuller.

I actually thought the 20 second demo he did on the Broadmann sounded pretty good, but I've never heard of the company so I told him I'll go home and do some research. But then....he said the C word.

Sorry, I just can't. They might make good pianos finally, but I just don't trust Chinese branded products over maybe $1000. Apple puts their reputation behind their FoxConn phones and laptops. I do have a Chinese wine cooler, but I bought a 5-year service warranty from a well known American company for that, and it's not like they make wine coolers outside of China much these days anyway.

But a piano? That's the price of most cars. I definitely wouldn't buy a Chinese car, lol, heck I still haven't bought an American car yet, but that has more to do with personal preference than trust, although there's some of that too.


Michael:

While I certainly don't remember your visit in the same light as you portrayed it, by you own admission you "thought the Brodmann sounded pretty good" until I "said the C word."

This just proves that when bias is eliminated, and one uses their ears to purchase a piano, which is logical since what you're buying is sound, some of the Chinese built instruments can easily compare to the most respected instruments on the market today.

While your post gives credit to Apple for putting "their reputation behind their FoxConn phones and laptops," your logic does not extend to Brodmann, a Vienese company that also puts its reputation - and that of its President Christian Hoerfel and Engineer Colin Taylor (formerly Bosendorfer CEO and Chief Engineer respectively) - on the line for the pianos built by Parsons. To me, that's duplicitous at best.

As to your visit, and the fact that you didn't see or play a Ritmuller - you will recall that your visit was somewhat brief, and that you preferred brighter sound to more rounded tone. The Ritmuller products are decisively (and purposely) more rounded in approach to sound and it was a conscious decision on my part to have you listen to a Brodmann rather than a Ritmuller.

Regardless, you found the piano that meets your needs and fits your tone profile, and hearty congratulations to you on that purchase. Kawai builds very nice and reliable instruments, and having sold them for over 25 years, I know your purchase will bring your family years of pleasure.

The OP has clearly stated that she prefers the sound of the Ritmuller to that of the GE-30. You chastise her for that preference and demean everyone who suggests she purchase the instrument she likes the sound of. It is interesting to note that it took an Rx-5 (6'6) instrument to convince you to purchase it over the 6'piano built in ... the "C" word. It would be interesting, given your self-proclaimed scientific curiosity, to see which instrument you would select if each brand were covered over and you judged the pianos simply by their tone quality.

Oh wait, you did that.... and then I mentioned the "C" word.


Edited by master88er (06/25/13 07:17 PM)
Edit Reason: spelling
_________________________
Russell I. Kassman
R.KASSMAN, Purveyor of Fine Pianos
Berkeley, CA

FORMER US Rep.for C.Bechstein

SF Area Dealer: Steingraeber•Grotrian•Sauter•Estonia•Kayserburg•Baldwin•Brodmann•Ritmüller
www.rkassman.com
russell@rkassman.com
510.558.0765

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#2108109 - 06/25/13 08:52 PM Re: How well built is Ritmuller piano? [Re: zhengy4]
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 14139
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
"Ende gut - alles gut"

May everybody find the pianos of his/her dreams.
There's surely many choices out there.

'Tone & touch' plus 'within budget' is what counts in my book.

Others may see things differently or add other conditions to it.

Thanks for the patience everybody - interesting ride...

cheers,

Norbert smile


Edited by Norbert (06/25/13 10:55 PM)
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : C.Sauter, Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

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#2108163 - 06/26/13 12:03 AM Re: How well built is Ritmuller piano? [Re: Norbert]
Dara Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/18/09
Posts: 1035
Loc: west coast island, canada
Originally Posted By: Norbert
May everybody find the pianos of his/her dreams.
Thanks for the patience everybody - interesting ride...


smile

Greetings Norbert,

Are you referring to your thread, 'Steinway: World's Finest' ?

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#2108177 - 06/26/13 12:30 AM Re: How well built is Ritmuller piano? [Re: zhengy4]
zhengy4 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/22/12
Posts: 21
alright, I am confused..... can't decide which one to go with.

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#2108195 - 06/26/13 01:38 AM Re: How well built is Ritmuller piano? [Re: master88er]
michaelha Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/05/13
Posts: 871
Originally Posted By: master88er
[quote=michaelh][quote=rlinkt]
...Brodmann, a Vienese company that also puts its reputation - and that of its President Christian Hoerfel and Engineer Colin Taylor (formerly Bosendorfer CEO and Chief Engineer respectively) - on the line for the pianos built by Parsons. To me, that's duplicitous at best.

As to your visit, and the fact that you didn't see or play a Ritmuller - you will recall that your visit was somewhat brief, and that you preferred brighter sound to more rounded tone. The Ritmuller products are decisively (and purposely) more rounded in approach to sound and it was a conscious decision on my part to have you listen to a Brodmann rather than a Ritmuller.


Not to belabor this, but I guess I'm going to anyway.

There bio says Hoerfel was VP of sales, not CEO.
http://www.brodmann-pianos.at/index.php?id=colin_taylor&L=3%20%5B0%2C0%2C17398%5D

Taylor was a concert tech and then Area Sales for Bosendorfer, not chief engineer.
http://www.brodmann-pianos.at/index.php?id=christian_hoeferl&L=3%20%5B0%2C0%2C17398%5D

And I actually prefer a mellower tone. Kawai's, old Steinways, M&H's. I wanted to buy your RX-2 but I really was convinced you weren't trying to sell it but using it to draw in foot traffic and then to show your Broadmann's. Pretty smart. I couldn't see what else you had but I assumed you didn't show me bc you thought they were over my budget. So I found another dealer who had the new Kawai GX's and the RX-5 and looooved the the RX-5.

Yes, I did have a good impression of the Brodmann you demo'd to me but the price you gave me was over my budget, and yes the "C" word didn't help. I was able to get the a 6'6" Kawai for something like $5K+ less than your 6' Brodmann.

But seriously, I do feel for you guys. I know you must get this everyday, people like me who hear the "C" word and start walking backwards. Hopefully it will change soon and I'll trade in my Kawai for a Pearl River.





Edited by michaelh (06/26/13 01:41 AM)
_________________________
Casio CDP-100
2012 Kawai RX-5 BLAK

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#2108223 - 06/26/13 04:15 AM Re: How well built is Ritmuller piano? [Re: michaelha]
Dara Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/18/09
Posts: 1035
Loc: west coast island, canada
Originally Posted By: michaelh

Yes, I did have a good impression of the Brodmann you demo'd to me but the price you gave me was over my budget, and yes the "C" word didn't help. I was able to get the a 6'6" Kawai for something like $5K+ less than your 6' Brodmann.

But seriously, I do feel for you guys. I know you must get this everyday, people like me who hear the "C" word and start walking backwards. Hopefully it will change soon and I'll trade in my Kawai for a Pearl River.


michaelh,

are you enjoying your new Kawai 6'6" piano ?
it seems you've enjoyed denigrating oriental pianos in your brief time on PW.

if you really did get the Kawai RX-5 for $5K cheaper than the Brodmann,
you got a fantastic deal
and you just purchased a very fine Asian piano.

edit -
brodmann187 sells for several thousand $ , below the price you mention


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#2108230 - 06/26/13 04:57 AM Re: How well built is Ritmuller piano? [Re: zhengy4]
michaelha Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/05/13
Posts: 871
If I remember correctly I was quoted around $24K for the Brodmann 6'1.
_________________________
Casio CDP-100
2012 Kawai RX-5 BLAK

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#2108255 - 06/26/13 07:29 AM Re: How well built is Ritmuller piano? [Re: zhengy4]
Rank Piano Amateur Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/11/07
Posts: 1786
Steve: I found your post about Chinese piano factories very interesting. I have a couple of follow-up questions. First, do you speak Chinese? Second, were you able to visit the homes of the workers whose standard of living you mention? It seems to me that a low-skilled construction worker in this country is likely to be among the working poor, so I would be interested in whether you had actually seen the standard of living of enough workers to form a reliable, and not propaganda-driven, impression. Third, who sponsored your visits? Since it seems likely to me that whoever sponsored your visits and planned your tours had a strong incentive for you to get a positive impression of the industry and the workers' standard of living, it would have been great if you had been able to go off-tour, as it were, to try to see what things are really like for the workers. I'm not sure that would have been easy to do at all or even possible to do safely though, which sends its own message.

I am happy to agree that Chinese-made pianos have made light-years of progress in quality in all respects. I am not sure about the standard of living of their workers, though.

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#2108265 - 06/26/13 08:42 AM Re: How well built is Ritmuller piano? [Re: zhengy4]
Jonathan Alford Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/10/11
Posts: 359
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By: zhengy4
alright, I am confused..... can't decide which one to go with.


Of course it is ultimately your decision, my recommendation is select the piano that when you get it home you will be happy with the sound and touch for the price you paid.

Good luck with your decision,

Jonathan

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#2108312 - 06/26/13 11:10 AM Re: How well built is Ritmuller piano? [Re: michaelha]
Steve Chandler Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/18/05
Posts: 2760
Loc: Urbandale, Iowa
Originally Posted By: michaelh

But seriously, I do feel for you guys. I know you must get this everyday, people like me who hear the "C" word and start walking backwards. Hopefully it will change soon and I'll trade in my Kawai for a Pearl River.

Given that so much of what we buy is made in China I'm inclined to think that you're an outlier not mainstream. But I wouldn't trade an RX-5 for a Pearl River.

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#2108331 - 06/26/13 11:38 AM Re: How well built is Ritmuller piano? [Re: zhengy4]
Almaviva Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/21/13
Posts: 606
Loc: Richmond, Virginia
Originally Posted By: zhengy4
alright, I am confused..... can't decide which one to go with.


Zhengy4,

If this were 2000 instead of 2013, the decision of which piano is more durable or will last longer would be a "slam dunk" in favor of the Kawai. However, this IS 2013, and now I would say that neither piano is dramatically more durable than the other.

Kawai have been around a long time and have proven that they make good, solid pianos. That said, Pearl River quality control has improved recently to the point that I don't think you will have to worry about a Ritmuller piano falling apart in 10 years. If you are still unsure about Ritmuller longevity, have a trusted independent piano technician examine the instrument.

If the two instruments are priced the same, and if you don't prefer the touch and tone of one instrument to the other, I'd opt for the Kawai. However, if you DO prefer the touch & tone of the Ritmuller, get that one.


Edited by Almaviva (06/26/13 11:42 AM)

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#2108332 - 06/26/13 11:39 AM Re: How well built is Ritmuller piano? [Re: Rank Piano Amateur]
Jolly Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/20/01
Posts: 14051
Loc: Louisiana
Originally Posted By: Rank Piano Amateur
Steve: I found your post about Chinese piano factories very interesting. I have a couple of follow-up questions. First, do you speak Chinese? Second, were you able to visit the homes of the workers whose standard of living you mention? It seems to me that a low-skilled construction worker in this country is likely to be among the working poor, so I would be interested in whether you had actually seen the standard of living of enough workers to form a reliable, and not propaganda-driven, impression. Third, who sponsored your visits? Since it seems likely to me that whoever sponsored your visits and planned your tours had a strong incentive for you to get a positive impression of the industry and the workers' standard of living, it would have been great if you had been able to go off-tour, as it were, to try to see what things are really like for the workers. I'm not sure that would have been easy to do at all or even possible to do safely though, which sends its own message.

I am happy to agree that Chinese-made pianos have made light-years of progress in quality in all respects. I am not sure about the standard of living of their workers, though.


You mean those workers that moved from abject poverty in the rural areas, where sometimes they didn't eat everyday? To try to make more money and provide for their families?

You know, when the choice lies between having no money and having a sweatshop job, gimmee the sweat shop job. OTOH, building pianos is not piece work in a sweatshop.

I'm not saying China is a workman's paradise. I am saying they are doing a pretty good job of raising their national standard of living, primarily through industrialization.

If it makes you feel better to pay for $30k for a piano which performs no better than a $15 or $20K piano, feel free. Pianos are individual instrument choices, anyway.

Just remember...one of the reasons so many people could afford an Estonia, especially ten years ago, was the exchange rate and the pay scales of the country's economy. Same reason you used to could buy a Petrof reasonably.

I suppose those factories should have paid their employees according to German wage scales and they would have produced a better piano.

And a lot less people would have had the opportunity to enjoy purchasing one.

A good piano is where you find it. What makes it a really good piano, is when you can also can afford to buy it.
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#2108341 - 06/26/13 11:56 AM Re: How well built is Ritmuller piano? [Re: Jonathan Alford]
Almaviva Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/21/13
Posts: 606
Loc: Richmond, Virginia
Originally Posted By: Jonathan Alford
Originally Posted By: zhengy4
I've heard that carbon fibre holds almost eternity and don't swell/shrink due to humidity.


I am no expert, i think the carbon fiber actions are just fine, but are not the only way to go. I believe Kawai is the only maker using them. That leaves a lot of other mfgs thinking wood is the way to go.


Actually, Jonathan, Kawai is no longer the only firm using ABS & carbon fiber in their actions. Mason & Hamlin have also joined the "plastic party", as have Steingraeber-Phoenix.

That said, you are right, the rest of the piano industry has not gotten on board the ABS-carbon-fiber bandwagon. Why I'm not sure.


Edited by Almaviva (06/26/13 11:59 AM)

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#2108344 - 06/26/13 12:03 PM Re: How well built is Ritmuller piano? [Re: Almaviva]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7439
Loc: Rochester MN
Originally Posted By: Almaviva
Originally Posted By: Jonathan Alford
Originally Posted By: zhengy4
I've heard that carbon fibre holds almost eternity and don't swell/shrink due to humidity.


I am no expert, i think the carbon fiber actions are just fine, but are not the only way to go. I believe Kawai is the only maker using them. That leaves a lot of other mfgs thinking wood is the way to go.


Actually, Jonathan, Kawai is no longer the only firm using ABS & carbon fiber in their actions. Mason & Hamlin have also joined the "plastic party", as have Steingraeber-Phoenix.

That said, you are right, the rest of the piano industry has not gotten onboard the ABS-carbon-fiber bandwagon. Why I'm not sure.

Not to mention that Wessell, Nickel & Gross is supplying composite actions and action parts for rebuilding.
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2108380 - 06/26/13 12:54 PM Re: How well built is Ritmuller piano? [Re: Minnesota Marty]
Almaviva Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/21/13
Posts: 606
Loc: Richmond, Virginia
Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty
Not to mention that Wessell, Nickel & Gross is supplying composite actions and action parts for rebuilding.


LOL. Marty, I thought Wessell, Nickel & Gross was part of Mason & Hamlin! smile

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