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#2108370 - 06/26/13 12:44 PM Re: Steinway: world's finest? [Re: Minnesota Marty]
ClsscLib Online   content

Platinum Supporter until Jan 02 2013


Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 1589
Loc: Northern VA, U.S.
Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty


...PhD in Hyperbole pending.


Who said, "Reading is fundamental?" I disremember...
_________________________


"People may say I can't sing, but no one can ever say I didn't sing."

-- Florence Foster Jenkins

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#2108379 - 06/26/13 12:54 PM Re: Steinway: world's finest? [Re: Norbert]
Minnesota Marty Online   content

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 6063
Loc: Rochester MN
Hey Lib - You seem to be the only one who noticed the fine print!
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2108382 - 06/26/13 12:56 PM Re: Steinway: world's finest? [Re: Minnesota Marty]
ClsscLib Online   content

Platinum Supporter until Jan 02 2013


Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 1589
Loc: Northern VA, U.S.
Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty
Hey Lib - You seem to be the only one who noticed the fine print!


For a Lib, I'm quite the fundamentalist.
_________________________


"People may say I can't sing, but no one can ever say I didn't sing."

-- Florence Foster Jenkins

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#2108385 - 06/26/13 12:58 PM Re: Steinway: world's finest? [Re: Norbert]
Minnesota Marty Online   content

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 6063
Loc: Rochester MN
Aha, a fundamentalist Clssc!
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2108412 - 06/26/13 01:48 PM Re: Steinway: world's finest? [Re: Minnesota Marty]
Mwm Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/13
Posts: 752
Congrats Dr. Marty. Will you wear a sword?

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#2108422 - 06/26/13 01:58 PM Re: Steinway: world's finest? [Re: Norbert]
Minnesota Marty Online   content

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 6063
Loc: Rochester MN
Only if it is Baroque in design. The more the better. Rococo would be effervescently and dynamically superlative.

Strangely enough, my Doctoral Dissertation has been accepted and I am awaiting the scheduling of my Orals. It's not in hyperbole, however, and it has taken twenty years.
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2108444 - 06/26/13 02:20 PM Re: Steinway: world's finest? [Re: Norbert]
Rickster Offline


Registered: 03/25/06
Posts: 8068
Loc: Georgia, USA
Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty
Strangely enough, my Doctoral Dissertation has been accepted and I am awaiting the scheduling of my Orals. It's not in hyperbole, however, and it has taken twenty years.

Congratulations, Dr. Marty!

That is quite an educational accomplishment. thumb

We have several Dr.'s who are members here... a lot of smart members! Hopefully, we can all learn from each other. smile

Rick
_________________________
Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel

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#2108449 - 06/26/13 02:23 PM Re: Steinway: world's finest? [Re: Norbert]
Plowboy Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/26/08
Posts: 2173
Loc: Huntington Beach, CA
So, you really are Smarty?
_________________________
Gary Schenk

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#2108507 - 06/26/13 03:51 PM Re: Steinway: world's finest? [Re: Norbert]
Minnesota Marty Online   content

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 6063
Loc: Rochester MN
Thanks Rick! Not quite yet, however. After all, I could bomb and forever be pending!

Oh-Oh Gary. Please don't start that again at PW.
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2108764 - 06/26/13 10:15 PM Re: Steinway: world's finest? [Re: Rickster]
laguna_greg Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/02/13
Posts: 1166
Loc: guess where in CA and WA
Chapeaux Marty! I only had to sit for written exams. I do not envy you! BTW, have you said anywhere in this thread what your dissertation is about?

And can I have a copy (digital of course)?

Cheers!!!!
_________________________
Laguna Greg

1919 Mason & Hamlin AA
1931 Bechstein C
http://www.triangleassociates-us.com/about_us (my day job)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorothy_Taubman (a recent article I wrote about one of my teachers)

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#2108766 - 06/26/13 10:26 PM Re: Steinway: world's finest? [Re: Norbert]
Minnesota Marty Online   content

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 6063
Loc: Rochester MN
"Buxtehude - Influence on J.S. Bach and the Late Baroque"
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2108768 - 06/26/13 10:41 PM Re: Steinway: world's finest? [Re: Norbert]
laguna_greg Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/02/13
Posts: 1166
Loc: guess where in CA and WA
AFTER EVERYTHING WE'VE SAID, AFTER EVERYTHING WE'VE DONE...

I find it hard to believe that somebody thinks Steinways cannot be great pianos.

I know, I know, I bash them and I criticize them, they are not my personal favorite, the "Bad Decades", "Marketing, Marketing, Marketing", et cetera, et cetera, et cetera as the King of Siam said in that blasted musical.

But as I wrote in another thread entirely, "cela va sans dire" that Steinways, the best of them anyway, are wonderful, and have withstood the test of more than a 100 years of time, and on AT LEAST two continents! It is disingenuous, and lacking in musical and personal taste (and personal hygiene), to say that they haven't, and still don't....sometimes.

Even the The Froggie French (yes, I said it), who hate everything that isn't "Francais" and "Napoleon" and "LE Conservatoire au 16eme" and "Boulez Boulez Boulez" (who is as overrated as they come, just like IRCAM), love the Steinway sound "in general". For some reason, most of "les francais" de ma conaissance vastly prefer German music to French. Don't ask me why, I've been in love avec le Debussy all my life and I don't understand why they wouldn't be, but that's just my thing, personal regionalist quirks, I know, I still can't get rid of the "Valley Speak "twang"....

(Do I have to give a Paula Dean Apology now? Yes I love her cooking...)

I mean, for God's sake, it's like saying you don't like Screaming Eagle and a rare steak!


I'd take a good Steinway over a Bad Bosie any Day Of The Week!!!

Cheers, and Fie on the Steinway Haters!!! (...even if it is me...)


Edited by laguna_greg (06/26/13 10:46 PM)
_________________________
Laguna Greg

1919 Mason & Hamlin AA
1931 Bechstein C
http://www.triangleassociates-us.com/about_us (my day job)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorothy_Taubman (a recent article I wrote about one of my teachers)

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#2108772 - 06/26/13 10:45 PM Re: Steinway: world's finest? [Re: Minnesota Marty]
laguna_greg Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/02/13
Posts: 1166
Loc: guess where in CA and WA
I still want to read it. It HAS to be better than Schweitzer!
_________________________
Laguna Greg

1919 Mason & Hamlin AA
1931 Bechstein C
http://www.triangleassociates-us.com/about_us (my day job)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorothy_Taubman (a recent article I wrote about one of my teachers)

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#2108823 - 06/27/13 12:53 AM Re: Steinway: world's finest? [Re: Norbert]
Joey Calderazzo Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/12/13
Posts: 29
I have been following this thread and finally decided to post.I play jazz piano for a living and play mostly Steinway D's..If you had asked me a year ago what I thought the best piano in the world was,I would have said Steinway..But although I do like Steinways,I really dont think they are the best.I also feel that they are not even close to the best when you factor in the price tag.
I played many different pianos over the last 8 months and have REALLY grown to love other brands.The other brands that I played were:Fazioli,Bosie,Bechstein,Bluthner,Schimmel,Estonia..
I ended up buying a Schimmel K 189 that I really love.Back in April I was in NYC and went to Steinway Hall.I was very disappointed in everything there except a hand full of D's..
I played all of the A's,to compare my Schimmel..I could not fine ONE A that I liked as much as my Schimmel,and the Steinway was 2x the cost..Even at the same dollar amount I like the Schimmel more.
I will say that the best A i played was at Faust Harrison..it was from the C&A department.
The one thing I noticed was that both the Schimmel and the Estonia was a better piano(for me) against the Steinway M..Faust also had some very nice B's..But once again I preferred the C.Bechstein and the Bosie..
I do love a well prepped D..I think the D is by far the best of all Steinways..
I also think that the C should really be in the line up..The B is a tad too small. I played a 7 foot Fazioli that was miles above the Steinway B(just my opinion)..
My ears have been opened up to the European sound.Playing my Schimmel at home has changed my playing in many ways..
I must add that I was disappointed playing some very under prepped pianos at Steinway Hall..The best Steinways were at Faust!!!
I will be touring in Europe all next month and I am very pleased that Schimmel is suppling one of their new K series pianos for me to try out..It will be interesting to see how that goes..
I have to add that I have played a lot of pianos in my career and the number one most important thing is maintenance..I have played some great Yamahas that are well kept.Also some terrific Steinways..But man I have played some real dogs(mostly Steinway)..
The pianos that I almost bought were:Bechstein A190(really great)..Estonia 190(never loved the action,but nice tone)
Mason AA(new action parts) Bluthner 6...Bosie CS..Schimmel K
Never loved the Bluthner(not sure why..didnt like the feel)
The Bosie was really sweet but I felt it was limited in what i need.
Estonia..just not as refined as the others.
I did like the Mason..the action was really good and I loved the bass..Was not so even throughout the keyboard but was nice and dark,with power.
There was a special thing with the Schimmel..it was sweet but had power..the action is really great from top to bottom..And it has great sustain..
its hard to find a Steinway that sings throughout the entire piano..Also I preferred the action of all the others to Steinway..
I play them all the time and I do like them quite a bit but I would never call Steinway the worlds finest

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#2108836 - 06/27/13 01:28 AM Re: Steinway: world's finest? [Re: Joey Calderazzo]
laguna_greg Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/02/13
Posts: 1166
Loc: guess where in CA and WA
Hi Joey,

Of course you like the Schimmels and the Faziolis. These are the most brightly toned/voiced instruments on the market today. Most everybody playing in the pop vein (yes I said it, and by saying that I mean you) prefers that sound, because it makes your articulations sound that much more "articulate" without you having to make the slightest effort in front of a microphone. It's one of the reasons most recording studios have Yamahas in their main roooms. Rockers and jazzers just LOVE them because they are SO BRIGHT! They can be heard over the drum track, and they're cheap in comparison, the more brightly voiced (and shrilly) the better.

A Steinway, or a Bluthner, require that you actually control your color technically. They have a full palette and complete response in their best instruments, as does even a goood Bosie, as lyric-colored as it is. The Schimmel does not in comparison.

Yes, Steinway is shooting itself in the foot with its marketing and weird business pratices. Yes, Steinway does not do even an adequate job of prepping new instruments on their showrooms floors. Yes, the Steinway output of new instruments is uneven in quality, the new Hamburgs better-sounding than the new American instruments.

Yet they can still make one of the best pianos out there.

Your post calls to mind Shakespeare at his most fullsome-

"The fault, dear Brutus lies not in the stars, but in ourselves..."

Have fun on your tour!
_________________________
Laguna Greg

1919 Mason & Hamlin AA
1931 Bechstein C
http://www.triangleassociates-us.com/about_us (my day job)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorothy_Taubman (a recent article I wrote about one of my teachers)

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#2108843 - 06/27/13 02:02 AM Re: Steinway: world's finest? [Re: Norbert]
Joey Calderazzo Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/12/13
Posts: 29
thanks Laguna,

yes I agree with a lot of what you say..I play so many bland,dead,mushy feeling Steinways that a Yamaha would be a a joy to play.I am not in favor of bright pianos,and I would not call my piano or the Faziolis,Bechsteins bright sounding..Maybe a year ago I would have felt that way.I would not put the tone of a Yamaha and Fazioli in the same category..
What I have come to realize is that its very hard to find one piano to do everything.I hear different pianos for different things..
I love a well prepped Steinway.I also agree they are very colorful.The hardest thing for me is missing that dark sound from a Steinway.BUT..there is something very beautiful about the lighter,crystalline sound of the european pianos..for whatever its worth,I dont consider myself a hack and dont need a bright piano for attack..Attack is not a problem I have(and i have plenty)
I actually prefer to have little attack until Forte..I figured this out with my tech..He had other terms for it..I think it was no key strike until forte..
I played a Bechstein that I felt was too bright and then heard the same piano after being voiced and it was much better.
I think they can ALL be great pianos but like I said earlier,regular maintenance is key..

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#2108854 - 06/27/13 02:34 AM Re: Steinway: world's finest? [Re: Norbert]
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 13965
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
Quote:
I love a well prepped Steinway.I also agree they are very colorful.The hardest thing for me is missing that dark sound from a Steinway.BUT..there is something very beautiful about the lighter,crystalline sound of the european pianos..


Ever tried a Hamburg?

Norbert
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : C.Sauter, Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

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#2109315 - 06/27/13 09:37 PM Re: Steinway: world's finest? [Re: Norbert]
Numerian Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 1071
I went piano shopping over the weekend with my daughter. She is looking for a spinet or upright for her apartment, wants an acoustic, and has a limited budget. She was hoping for something around $250 but could go up to $400, not counting moving costs.

We spent at least three hours at an abandoned, gargantuan industrial warehouse, one floor of which was now devoted to used pianos of all sizes, ages, and conditions. You might call it a piano graveyard. There was a corner for grands - well out of our price range (most over $1,000), and then there were rows and rows of tall uprights, medium uprights, and spinets - pressed back to back so we couldn't see the soundboards. They were all in various stages of decrepitude, though the most decayed of the lot were off in a corner awaiting stripping, salvaging, and eventual immolation of the remains.

We played every single spinet and upright, even though it took hours to go through over 300 pianos. Most had plunky, tinny, or reedy tones. Keys were chipped or key tops missing altogether. Notes didn't play at all, and the pedals often didn't work. Every so often we came across something that sounded and acted like a piano, and we learned to perk up when we met an instrument like that - usually a Hamilton, Baldwin Acrosonic, Knabe, Mason & Hamlin, Everett, Chickering, or long-forgotten solid instruments from the 1920's.

There were grand dame uprights and player pianos that were nearly a century old, with fantastic wood carving, but unsalvageable because the cost of recreating a working piano out of the musical husk was uneconomic. Toward the end of our search, which gradually focused on a Lyon-Healy for $250, my daughter asked, "Where are all the Steinways?" It didn't take her long to think through the question and realize what the answer was.

There were no Steinways there in the piano graveyard. Better fates awaited them, if not for the quality and musical capabilities of the instrument itself, at least for the value of the name on the fallboard.

That in my opinion is a tribute to the quality and legacy that Steinway has built for over a century.


Edited by Numerian (06/27/13 09:44 PM)

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