Only for some.

Perhaps you shouldn't have negotiated such a bargain basement price for yourself.

Most customers aren't asked to carry their pianos home themselves.....

Norbert

Wzkit, I've seen them but I'm really only interested in grands that are about 7 foot and up at this point. The local dealer has them on occasion but nothing that big. I couldnt even try the new M&H CC at a dealer in NYC, they didnt have one. I was offered to try a Steingraeber Concert grand but I cant travel hours to do it without being in the market.

LJC,
I'm quite surprised at your difficulty in sampling concert grands from other makes, having imagined NYC to be one of the piano capitals of the world.

But as for Sauter, given its obscurity in the US in general, that's not surprising. I believe the Sauter concert grand is a relatively new model and hence there can't be many in existence around the world. And when they are present, it would more likely be in Europe, where they are better known, than anywhere else. After all, few private or institutional buyers would be willing to spend that kind of money on a full sized concert grand if its from an obscure make. It seems to me, that Steingraeber may actually command better name recognition than Sauter in the US, and hence greater availability.

Casalborgone,
Are the tonal differences between the Vivace and Delta that significant? After all they're based on the same scale, soundboard and plate, with the addition of that "acoustic chamber". Could you describe how the Vivace sounds/feels different? Is the action lighter, heavier? Is the tone brighter, mellower, or simpler louder? I would be interested to know. Thanks.

As I tried to say above, there is no musically-functional difference between the Vivace and Delta models.

The box which fills the far end of the case between the outer rim and the soundboard has no special acoustical benefit. If someone told you this, he was pulling your leg and indulging in some super-salesmanship. I wouldn't put this kind of tale beyond a Sauter salesperson.

On the other hand, it's obvious the elongation of the straight side of the case (by adding the "box") and the additional width at the treble end of the keyboard in the Vivace are needed and used solely to give the piano its special streamlined look.

The Vivace, with its pointed "bow" at the end of the straight side and full double curve on the bent side, evokes the shape of a beautiful sailboat in lively motion (vivace) rather than the usual static, somewhat clunky, medium-sized piano shape.

The shiny metal plates along the top of the bent side evoke the meeting of water and light on a moving boat's hull. It's clear to me that this graceful sailboat look was Maly's design intention and I like it very much.

I am beginning to sound like a salesman myself, but I am selling high quality visual design on its own merits and not confusing it with musical design.

Thanks for the clarification. Given that I can see a real musical difference between the Peter Maly uprights and their regular models (e.g. Vista vs Pure 2000), I am willing to believe that the same could apply to the grands as well.

I am considering an upgrade to an Omega at some point in the future, as and when I have the space for it. However, the Ambiente does seem appealing. I was told that the differences between the Ambiente and the Omega are not just cosmetic. The action, apparently, was changed as well. If the differences between the Peter Maly and regular models are more than cosmetic, there might be a case for paying that extra money for it. If however, as u said, that extra cost is merely for visual effect, then I don't think it is worth that extra money.

Hey Wzkit -
Are you a vampire?
Don't you ever sleep??? It must be around 3something in the morning where you live. :p

Oh yes it is late here, or early, depending on how you look at it However, I usually sleep pretty late during the weekends...one of my few chances to let loose my night owl tendencies

I don't know about the relation of the Peter Maly uprights to the other Sauter uprights of the same size. It may well be that case design details in the Peter Maly upright models do affect the sound as well as the look of these pianos, since upright cases interfere more with sound projection more than grand cases.

The differences in the Ambiente and Omega models also may be more than "cosmetic."

I would also say that for most people, the way that things look is significant and is not merely "cosmetic." These visual meanings are what the visual arts are all about; some people are relatively uninterested in the visual arts, I will admit.

Visual meanings can coexist with musical meanings; there is no inherent conflict. Many people particularly like the look of traditional grand piano designs; I simply do not.

It may be a matter of money for some people, who don't want to pay extra for something that is not traditional in look.

Certainly one of the things that attracted me to Sauter was the looks. Even for the conventional models, the quality of the workmanship is apparent - from the plate, the rims, the polyester etc, and in my piano's case, the burl walnut fallboard. The Peter Maly models are even more impressive in this regard.

But all that would have meant nothing had the piano been an outstanding performer musically.

So the way I see it, a piano has to serve its musical function first and foremost, good looks is just a bonus.

Yes, I agree with you completely about this.

At the risk of reviving an old thread and possibly old arguments..... has anyone played a Sauter M line 130 and if so can they pass any comments/observations etc. particularly how the tone perhaps compares to say a Ragazza 122?

I appear to have 2 dealers in the UK but neither has any M Line uprights available and both are reluctant to say the least about ordering one in to play without my agreeing to purchase it sight-unseen and unplayed... that presents something of a dilemma!

Worth the risk? Buy something else? Welcome your thoughts folks

Genaa,

I've played an M-Line 130 and a couple of 122's: one was a used Vista and the other a Maly artcase. NOTE: I've only played them at dealers...no extended experience.

The M had the repetition action. The Vista did not. The Maly I don't remember. In any case, the non-repetition action was fast enough for me and I think faster than the vast majority of vertical actions. I don't know what action the Regazza has.

In terms of tone I feel Sauter pianos are very consistent in being clean and neutral. They are probably not to everyone's taste, but to me it's an advantage when you can hear every note well.
The ones I played did not have tonal differences. I'm sure voicing could make them different.

I wouldn't personally put an M-Line in a normal-sized room. Even though all Sauters are easy to control at a pp level, they are extremely powerful when pushed.

If it were me (and don't I wish that), I'd get a 122 that I could see and play before purchase and pocket the substantial savings. I can understand the dealer's reluctance to order. The M-Line's are awfully expensive.

Hi Turandot,

Many thanks for swift reply and useful advice

Same boat dealer-wise regarding ordering anything other than the 116 and 122 Ragazza (for the one which has some Sauter stock in) and for ANY Sauter from the other dealer it seems.

Have a 130cm Kawai at present (long story but it is damaged - have posted a little elsewhere about this) and am keen to have a similar sized instrument, not least because the room it is in has a lot of noise absorbing furniture, carpet etc... besides when/if I move I would like the 'headroom' hehe.

Prices I am being quoted currently suggest only a 1k difference between the 122 and 130 M line - which leads me to lean towards the 130... I just wish I could find some to play hehe.

Am going to start posting on forums to see if any techs or owners have Sauters they would be happy for me to come see/play unless I can persuade a dealer to get one in on spec.... It's a real conundrum - I love the tone I have heard on recordings of the Sauter grands such as Wzkit's etc... just need to match that against how the uprights I am interested sound...

Time to contact Ulrich and co direct as well I guess hehe.

Hi Genaa,
Thanks for the compliments on my Sauter's tone. Two years on, it still sounds great!
Regarding the uprights, I was pretty impressed with the M-Line 122 I saw at my dealer's place, and the one M-Line 130 I encountered at the Sauter facotry in Spaichingen. I noticed the tone is generally slightly brighter for the newer Sauters - though that can be easily voiced down without loss of power. Clarity is fantastic, as is usual for Sauters - but that is something that people either like or don't. As for the touch, I recall it being more comfortable to play than the M-Line 122.

Perhaps it is worth the risk if the difference is only 1K....