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#2109142 - 06/27/13 03:15 PM ES7 or FP-50 - If you were in my shoes...
voxpops Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3021
Loc: Oregon
Here's my dilemma, I know the ES7's action is so much better, but the Kawai weighs substantially more than the Roland; so simply comparing their internal sounds, which would you choose?

I need to be able to easily transport a piano with built-in speakers to small venues, where, with just the addition of a stand and a stool I can perform solo gigs. (I'm already well covered for larger band gigs). I have a bad back, and will likely not have assistance to setup and tear down the equipment. In the past, I have owned the Roland FP-4, FP-7F and RD-64, and also the Kawai MP5 and MP6. I preferred the playability of the FP-7F to the MP6, despite the clearer tone of the Kawai.

I like the harmonic integration and decay qualities of Roland's SN pianos, but I do find them just a little muddy at times.

I did not like the way the FP-7F's internal speakers would distort if a left-hand bass patch was split with piano.

If you have played the FP-50 (or FP-4F), and/or the ES7, please tell me what you like and dislike about them. How well do the speakers respond to acoustic bass split with piano? Are the speakers loud enough for small gigs? Do you find the ES7 too heavy/awkward to move around?

Thanks!
_________________________
Occasional author and inveterate ivory tickler:
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https://soundcloud.com/richards-recordings/sets/strange-charm-waiting-for-the/s-ppGuy

"can hardly wait to hear what voxpox has to say..."
[HisKidd, May 2014]

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#2109151 - 06/27/13 03:51 PM Re: ES7 or FP-50 - If you were in my shoes... [Re: voxpops]
anotherscott Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3153
I think I'd go back to your old FP-4! Lightest of the bunch, perfectly workable for your needs, and I think the playability was better than on the FP-4F, which makes me think that it's likely better than the FP-50 as well, but I haven't tried an FP-50 yet.

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#2109172 - 06/27/13 04:30 PM Re: ES7 or FP-50 - If you were in my shoes... [Re: voxpops]
voxpops Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3021
Loc: Oregon
Thanks for that, Scott (I think!). You know, I've been scouring the country for another sensibly priced, good condition FP-4, but they've all gone to ground.
_________________________
Occasional author and inveterate ivory tickler:
http://www.amazon.com/author/richardspanswick

https://soundcloud.com/richards-recordings/sets/strange-charm-waiting-for-the/s-ppGuy

"can hardly wait to hear what voxpox has to say..."
[HisKidd, May 2014]

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#2109205 - 06/27/13 05:34 PM Re: ES7 or FP-50 - If you were in my shoes... [Re: voxpops]
dmd Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/15/09
Posts: 1778
Loc: Pennsylvania
Well, if you have a back problem, you are not going to want to lug the ES7 around. It is pretty heavy. I think you would be happy with the sound system but that weight would wear you out, I am afraid.
_________________________
Don

My current system: Kawai ES7 + Focal CMS40 Powered Monitors, SennHeiser HD555 Phones, Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 audio interface, Mackie ProFX8 Mixer, Ravenscroft275, True Keys American Grand, Ivory II American Concert D, Steinway Basic, Galaxy Vintage D, True Pianos, Pianoteq, Alicia's Keys

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#2109209 - 06/27/13 05:40 PM Re: ES7 or FP-50 - If you were in my shoes... [Re: voxpops]
Kawai James Online   content
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8866
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
voxpops, I'm afraid I may know the answer to this already, but is it possible you can play-test an ES7 beforehand?

As others have said, if you have had positive experiences with the FP-4, that should probably be at the top of your shopping list (if you can find one). I'm a little curious as to why you parted with the Roland in he first place.

Alternatively, you could always wait a little while and see if Father Christmas, dressed in a nice 'Kawai-red' outfit, brings you some nice goodies...

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2109210 - 06/27/13 05:42 PM Re: ES7 or FP-50 - If you were in my shoes... [Re: voxpops]
voxpops Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3021
Loc: Oregon
Thanks, Don. Yes, I think the ES7 would have to be so astoundingly better that it was worth risking even more damage - which is unlikely. Also, I dislike turning up to a summer's gig bathed in sweat!

Are you enjoying yours?
_________________________
Occasional author and inveterate ivory tickler:
http://www.amazon.com/author/richardspanswick

https://soundcloud.com/richards-recordings/sets/strange-charm-waiting-for-the/s-ppGuy

"can hardly wait to hear what voxpox has to say..."
[HisKidd, May 2014]

Top
#2109214 - 06/27/13 05:46 PM Re: ES7 or FP-50 - If you were in my shoes... [Re: Kawai James]
voxpops Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3021
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
voxpops, I'm afraid I may know the answer to this already, but is it possible you can play-test an ES7 beforehand?

Unfortunately, not a snowball's chance in heck! [Edit: interesting that the software substitutes the word that's printed here for the "down-below" word!]

Quote:
As others have said, if you have had positive experiences with the FP-4, that should probably be at the top of your shopping list (if you can find one). I'm a little curious as to why you parted with the Roland in he first place.

It was to pay for the RD-64 (which I didn't keep). Again, there was no chance of trying one here first. Nice LITTLE board, though.

Quote:
Alternatively, you could always wait a little while and see if Father Christmas, dressed in a nice 'Kawai-red' outfit, brings you some nice goodies...

Hmmmm... What a tease you are, James. wink


Edited by voxpops (06/27/13 05:50 PM)
_________________________
Occasional author and inveterate ivory tickler:
http://www.amazon.com/author/richardspanswick

https://soundcloud.com/richards-recordings/sets/strange-charm-waiting-for-the/s-ppGuy

"can hardly wait to hear what voxpox has to say..."
[HisKidd, May 2014]

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#2109219 - 06/27/13 06:06 PM Re: ES7 or FP-50 - If you were in my shoes... [Re: voxpops]
voxpops Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3021
Loc: Oregon
Kawai, Red, Father Christmas, North Pole, Goodies... No, back up a moment! North... What's the Swedish word for North again?
_________________________
Occasional author and inveterate ivory tickler:
http://www.amazon.com/author/richardspanswick

https://soundcloud.com/richards-recordings/sets/strange-charm-waiting-for-the/s-ppGuy

"can hardly wait to hear what voxpox has to say..."
[HisKidd, May 2014]

Top
#2109225 - 06/27/13 06:19 PM Re: ES7 or FP-50 - If you were in my shoes... [Re: voxpops]
gvfarns Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 3480
Loc: Pennsylvania
If I was lugging around my own equipment and gigging with any frequency at all, I'd get the lightest thing available (regardless of whether I had a bad back). What would that be...like a Casio PX-150 maybe? Or Yamaha P105.

We spend a lot of time scrutinizing the various actions and tone generators but the truth is that all these actions are workable and pretty much any modern digital piano will sound good enough for a room full of noisy people. The venue and speakers are likely to be the limiting factor.

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#2109231 - 06/27/13 06:32 PM Re: ES7 or FP-50 - If you were in my shoes... [Re: gvfarns]
voxpops Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3021
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: gvfarns
If I was lugging around my own equipment and gigging with any frequency at all, I'd get the lightest thing available (regardless of whether I had a bad back). What would that be...like a Casio PX-150 maybe? Or Yamaha P105.

We spend a lot of time scrutinizing the various actions and tone generators but the truth is that all these actions are workable and pretty much any modern digital piano will sound good enough for a room full of noisy people. The venue and speakers are likely to be the limiting factor.


Yes, I spent a month with the P-105, and quite liked it. It had two limiting factors for me: 1) the speakers were only 7 watts, a little mid/bass heavy, and distorted when acoustic bass was coupled with piano at reasonable volumes; 2) activating/deactivating splits was clunky. Other than those issues, it's a great little board for straight piano playing, without frills.
_________________________
Occasional author and inveterate ivory tickler:
http://www.amazon.com/author/richardspanswick

https://soundcloud.com/richards-recordings/sets/strange-charm-waiting-for-the/s-ppGuy

"can hardly wait to hear what voxpox has to say..."
[HisKidd, May 2014]

Top
#2109298 - 06/27/13 08:51 PM Re: ES7 or FP-50 - If you were in my shoes... [Re: voxpops]
cabi Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/15/13
Posts: 11
Loc: Brazil
I have played the ES7 and the FP 80. Good action , good AP sounds and good speakers( similar DP). My decision was to buy the FP 80 because it has better EP sounds, more sounds and better rhytms section, but the ES 7 ís a good choice too. I would like to wait the MP 6 replacement but there aren´t any notice about.

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#2109299 - 06/27/13 08:55 PM Re: ES7 or FP-50 - If you were in my shoes... [Re: voxpops]
voxpops Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3021
Loc: Oregon
Thanks, cabi. Unfortunately, the FP-80 is just simply too bulky and heavy, but at least the sounds should be the same in the 50, although the speakers are not as good.
_________________________
Occasional author and inveterate ivory tickler:
http://www.amazon.com/author/richardspanswick

https://soundcloud.com/richards-recordings/sets/strange-charm-waiting-for-the/s-ppGuy

"can hardly wait to hear what voxpox has to say..."
[HisKidd, May 2014]

Top
#2109300 - 06/27/13 08:56 PM Re: ES7 or FP-50 - If you were in my shoes... [Re: voxpops]
Kawai James Online   content
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8866
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
I've yet to really try the FP-80 properly - have the EP sounds been improved over the FP-7F?

James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#2109301 - 06/27/13 08:57 PM Re: ES7 or FP-50 - If you were in my shoes... [Re: Kawai James]
voxpops Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3021
Loc: Oregon
Yes, thank goodness! There are one or two videos online which highlight the EPs, particularly one made during Musikmesse.
_________________________
Occasional author and inveterate ivory tickler:
http://www.amazon.com/author/richardspanswick

https://soundcloud.com/richards-recordings/sets/strange-charm-waiting-for-the/s-ppGuy

"can hardly wait to hear what voxpox has to say..."
[HisKidd, May 2014]

Top
#2109305 - 06/27/13 09:12 PM Re: ES7 or FP-50 - If you were in my shoes... [Re: voxpops]
PianoWorksATL Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/19/09
Posts: 2691
Loc: Atlanta, GA
We keep a Roland FP-4 in our rental pool. It's great except customers keep trying to screw up the music desk when they pack it.
_________________________
Sam Bennett
PianoWorks - Atlanta Piano Dealer
Bsendorfer, Estonia, Seiler, Grotrian, Weber & Hailun
Pre-Owned: Yamaha, Kawai, Steinway & other fine pianos
Full Restoration Shop
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#2109307 - 06/27/13 09:14 PM Re: ES7 or FP-50 - If you were in my shoes... [Re: voxpops]
cabi Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/15/13
Posts: 11
Loc: Brazil
Yes, the EPs are better than FP 7-F. The AP sound too, maybe because the FP 80 has better speakers.

Top
#2109308 - 06/27/13 09:15 PM Re: ES7 or FP-50 - If you were in my shoes... [Re: PianoWorksATL]
voxpops Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3021
Loc: Oregon
I'd applaud the first manufacturer that provides a slot in the base of their slab pianos in which to stow the music rest.
_________________________
Occasional author and inveterate ivory tickler:
http://www.amazon.com/author/richardspanswick

https://soundcloud.com/richards-recordings/sets/strange-charm-waiting-for-the/s-ppGuy

"can hardly wait to hear what voxpox has to say..."
[HisKidd, May 2014]

Top
#2109312 - 06/27/13 09:22 PM Re: ES7 or FP-50 - If you were in my shoes... [Re: voxpops]
Kawai James Online   content
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8866
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Nice idea, however I'm pretty sure that would affect the instrument's structural rigidity. Certainly for Kawai stage pianos, the action sits on the bottom board, so I doubt there's sufficient space remaining in which to fit a slide in music rest - even temporarily.

James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#2109317 - 06/27/13 10:07 PM Re: ES7 or FP-50 - If you were in my shoes... [Re: Kawai James]
voxpops Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3021
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Nice idea, however I'm pretty sure that would affect the instrument's structural rigidity. Certainly for Kawai stage pianos, the action sits on the bottom board, so I doubt there's sufficient space remaining in which to fit a slide in music rest - even temporarily.

Yes, it would require some ingenious rethinking of the case and possibly the music rest itself. But if Casio can repurpose their speaker slots to be a battery compartment and a set of faders, then who knows what could be slid into the rear or the top of keyboards with a bit of creative thinking, and perhaps a folding scissor or latticework design for the rest? Also, some existing music rests are little more than bent wire - it can't be rocket science to design a clip-on holder underneath the board for such devices, as it's rare for keyboard gigbags etc. to have pockets wide enough for such accessories.
_________________________
Occasional author and inveterate ivory tickler:
http://www.amazon.com/author/richardspanswick

https://soundcloud.com/richards-recordings/sets/strange-charm-waiting-for-the/s-ppGuy

"can hardly wait to hear what voxpox has to say..."
[HisKidd, May 2014]

Top
#2109319 - 06/27/13 10:13 PM Re: ES7 or FP-50 - If you were in my shoes... [Re: voxpops]
dmd Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/15/09
Posts: 1778
Loc: Pennsylvania
Originally Posted By: voxpops
Thanks, Don. Yes, I think the ES7 would have to be so astoundingly better that it was worth risking even more damage - which is unlikely. Also, I dislike turning up to a summer's gig bathed in sweat!

Are you enjoying yours?


Yes, I absolutely am. It has a great Concert Grand sound, which is all I ever use.
_________________________
Don

My current system: Kawai ES7 + Focal CMS40 Powered Monitors, SennHeiser HD555 Phones, Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 audio interface, Mackie ProFX8 Mixer, Ravenscroft275, True Keys American Grand, Ivory II American Concert D, Steinway Basic, Galaxy Vintage D, True Pianos, Pianoteq, Alicia's Keys

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#2109322 - 06/27/13 10:14 PM Re: ES7 or FP-50 - If you were in my shoes... [Re: voxpops]
Kawai James Online   content
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8866
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
I believe the Casio PX-5S chassis is based largely on the PX-350 - removing speakers to create space for a knobs/sliders and a battery compartment is a little different to re-engineering the base for a music.

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#2109327 - 06/27/13 10:28 PM Re: ES7 or FP-50 - If you were in my shoes... [Re: voxpops]
voxpops Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3021
Loc: Oregon
James, you surprise me. No love for innovation? wink
_________________________
Occasional author and inveterate ivory tickler:
http://www.amazon.com/author/richardspanswick

https://soundcloud.com/richards-recordings/sets/strange-charm-waiting-for-the/s-ppGuy

"can hardly wait to hear what voxpox has to say..."
[HisKidd, May 2014]

Top
#2109337 - 06/27/13 10:43 PM Re: ES7 or FP-50 - If you were in my shoes... [Re: dmd]
voxpops Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3021
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: dmd
Originally Posted By: voxpops
Thanks, Don. Yes, I think the ES7 would have to be so astoundingly better that it was worth risking even more damage - which is unlikely. Also, I dislike turning up to a summer's gig bathed in sweat!

Are you enjoying yours?


Yes, I absolutely am. It has a great Concert Grand sound, which is all I ever use.


Good to hear, Don. It would be a nice board to have in a fixed location, or for very occasional trips.
_________________________
Occasional author and inveterate ivory tickler:
http://www.amazon.com/author/richardspanswick

https://soundcloud.com/richards-recordings/sets/strange-charm-waiting-for-the/s-ppGuy

"can hardly wait to hear what voxpox has to say..."
[HisKidd, May 2014]

Top
#2109338 - 06/27/13 10:43 PM Re: ES7 or FP-50 - If you were in my shoes... [Re: voxpops]
Kawai James Online   content
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8866
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Not at all, I believe the PX-5S is a very innovative board. wink
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#2109442 - 06/28/13 02:57 AM Re: ES7 or FP-50 - If you were in my shoes... [Re: voxpops]
sandalholme Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/31/09
Posts: 760
Loc: Dorset, UK
I am over 70, dodgy back, have carted - and will do so in the near future - my ES7 around. Yes, it's heavy and yes, I don't do it often, but it's possible. I chose it against the FP-7F. Rejected the FP-4F: the ES7 is in a different class: great sounds and action.

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#2109448 - 06/28/13 03:13 AM Re: ES7 or FP-50 - If you were in my shoes... [Re: Kawai James]
maurus Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/11
Posts: 794
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Alternatively, you could always wait a little while and see if Father Christmas, dressed in a nice 'Kawai-red' outfit, brings you some nice goodies...


Huh? Kawai-red? And even caring for voxpop's back?

Top
#2109452 - 06/28/13 03:33 AM Re: ES7 or FP-50 - If you were in my shoes... [Re: maurus]
Kawai James Online   content
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8866
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: maurus
Kawai-red?


Kawai's corporate colour utilises a special type of red ink, affectionately known within the company as 'Kawai-red':



(yes, I realise that posting an RGB image as an example defeats the purpose of my previous statement.)

James
x



_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#2110258 - 06/29/13 04:26 PM Re: ES7 or FP-50 - If you were in my shoes... [Re: voxpops]
justpin Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/25/12
Posts: 504
Loc: Holmes Chapel
Out of interest has anybody or will anybody submit to the DPBSD thread? for the ES7?

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#2110318 - 06/29/13 07:38 PM Re: ES7 or FP-50 - If you were in my shoes... [Re: voxpops]
kiedysktos. Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 425
Loc: Europe, Poland
I wonder if you can go past your speaker expectation, and carry some speaker separately, which can be more ear and back friendly. Then you (maybe?) have wider search scope; nothing comes to my mind though.

BTW, I have FP-4, but even in soft case with power cord, jack cable, pedal and music rest whole pack weight is 21kg...

Or some lightweight Casio + laptop + external speaker? Multiple lightweight packages is a way to go. Starting from smallest and cheapest speaker http://www.thomann.de/gb/behringer_b_205d.htm to any pro speakers. BTW this speaker is NOT as bad as you may think haha smile
_________________________
Roland FP-4

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#2110319 - 06/29/13 07:39 PM Re: ES7 or FP-50 - If you were in my shoes... [Re: voxpops]
Kawai James Online   content
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8866
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
I believe some folks already have...it's just that dewster is taking a break from examining waveforms for a while.

James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
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