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#2093970 - 06/02/13 03:33 PM Summer NAMM July 2013
Marko in Boston Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/12
Posts: 597
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts
Well, here we go again. Let's hear some predictions.

For starters...

Roland - RD700NX upgrade?
Kawai - MP6 and MP10 upgrade?
Yamaha - CP upgrades?
Kurzweil - Artis?
Korg - recent stuff, but more?
Nord - " " ?
Casio - " " ?


What do you think is going to rock our world?? OR just more fluff with "minor upgrades*"

* a.k.a "planned obsolescence" to make us by something in between until the next real significant upgrade is released


Edited by Marko in Boston (06/02/13 03:47 PM)

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#2093981 - 06/02/13 03:52 PM Re: Summer NAMM July 2013 [Re: Marko in Boston]
JFP Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1317
Loc: The Netherlands
Originally Posted By: Marko in Boston
Well, here we go again. Let's hear some predictions.

For starters...

Roland - RD700NX upgrade?
Kawai - MP6 and MP10 upgrade?
Yamaha - CP upgrades?
Korg - already seen upgrades
Kurzweil - Artis?


What do you think is going to rock our world?? OR just more fluff with "minor upgrades*"

* a.k.a "planned obsolescence" to make us by something in between until the next real significant upgrade is released


RD700NX + Rd300NX update : probably
MP6/10 update: no (not yet)
Yamaha CP update: probably
Korg: uhm...you mean for DP's ? Perhaps finally an SV2 ?
Kurzweil: Artis in a more advanced stage in development. Hopefully they'll add some resonance effects (damper / snare) and hopefully they use a triple sensor keybed.
Physis K4/K5 : more info on development stage and release date + sound options
StudioLogic Numa Concert: price drop please !
Casio Px5s: more rave reviews and happy people (getting rid of their hernia).
Pantago SP4U stage piano (for you) : hybrid piano (physical modeling + advanced sampling) , with stage controller features , triple sensor weighted keybed and 15kg

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#2094070 - 06/02/13 07:04 PM Re: Summer NAMM July 2013 [Re: JFP]
Marko in Boston Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/12
Posts: 597
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts
We shall see. Keep an eye on it:

http://www.namm.org/summer/2013

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#2094535 - 06/03/13 12:49 PM Re: Summer NAMM July 2013 [Re: Marko in Boston]
dje31 Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 210
Hope springs eternal.
_________________________
Yamaha CP33 | Roland XP-30

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#2108947 - 06/27/13 08:23 AM Re: Summer NAMM July 2013 [Re: dje31]
Marko in Boston Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/12
Posts: 597
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts
Has anyone heard anything yet about potential new products? Roland looks like they might be rolling out a new guitar amplifier, but aside of that I have seen nothing.


Edited by Marko in Boston (06/27/13 08:24 AM)

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#2108962 - 06/27/13 09:00 AM Re: Summer NAMM July 2013 [Re: Marko in Boston]
jarosujo Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/12/12
Posts: 228
Loc: Slovakia
Kawai: GF action in stage/portable/compact line pianos (ES/MP/CL)
_________________________
Yamaha NP-V80 (sold)
Yamaha DGX640 (sold)
Kawai CL-36
Pianoteq Standard + Intel NUC DC3217BY + Sennheiser HD598 + Fostex PM0.4n + NI Audio 2

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#2108996 - 06/27/13 10:29 AM Re: Summer NAMM July 2013 [Re: jarosujo]
JFP Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1317
Loc: The Netherlands
Originally Posted By: jarosujo
Kawai: GF action in stage/portable/compact line pianos (ES/MP/CL)


mmmmmmm, not (yet) . Would be surprised if it showed up in summer already. Probably later this year.

....On the other hand it might explain the current production problems of the VPC etc , if that is due to the fact they had to make room for some new products. Kawai may not have enough production capacity to produce all models all at once and have to do some clever forecasting and scheduling , which seems to have screwed up for the VPC lately. If the bonus side is an earlier entry of the new MP line, you wouldn't hear me complain ;-) Still I guess not.


Edited by JFP (06/27/13 10:30 AM)

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#2109030 - 06/27/13 11:49 AM Re: Summer NAMM July 2013 [Re: JFP]
Rhodie73 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/11/08
Posts: 129
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: JFP
Originally Posted By: Marko in Boston
Well, here we go again. Let's hear some predictions.

For starters...

Roland - RD700NX upgrade?
Kawai - MP6 and MP10 upgrade?
Yamaha - CP upgrades?
Korg - already seen upgrades
Kurzweil - Artis?


What do you think is going to rock our world?? OR just more fluff with "minor upgrades*"

* a.k.a "planned obsolescence" to make us by something in between until the next real significant upgrade is released


RD700NX + Rd300NX update : probably
MP6/10 update: no (not yet)
Yamaha CP update: probably
Korg: uhm...you mean for DP's ? Perhaps finally an SV2 ?
Kurzweil: Artis in a more advanced stage in development. Hopefully they'll add some resonance effects (damper / snare) and hopefully they use a triple sensor keybed.
Physis K4/K5 : more info on development stage and release date + sound options
StudioLogic Numa Concert: price drop please !
Casio Px5s: more rave reviews and happy people (getting rid of their hernia).
Pantago SP4U stage piano (for you) : hybrid piano (physical modeling + advanced sampling) , with stage controller features , triple sensor weighted keybed and 15kg


JFP, I think that you are on the money with most of these predictions. However the Roland and Yamaha updates probably won't happen until later this year. Looking at the Roland countdown, this Summer NAMM will most likely be for their guitar consumers and the RD700NX+300NX update will probably happen this fall. Yamaha....geeezzz, I have no idea. They are in "stop time" with regards to the CP line. They didn't even replace the good but getting old, P-155. Not that features like Ivory feel and 3 sensors make or break a DP, but all other manufactures have these features even in their lower level models. I have no idea what they plan to do but it would be great to see them create a more compact CP line and not cut details out like sympathetic resonance out of their flagship stage pianos. Plus they really need to update their damper resonance algorithm because it just simply sounds like a cheap reverb every time you press the sustain pedal. Even though I couldn't get down with the Casio PX5-S, Casio is certainly taking sales from the big guys like Roland and Yamaha and are actually becoming one of the big guys! It's time that companies look at what Casio has been doing for the past couple of years and produce real competition that people can afford without handicapping their products because of the fear of cutting into their "flagship" profits.
_________________________
Rhodes Stage 73 (MKII),Yamaha CP5, Roland RD-64 (for gigs)

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#2109249 - 06/27/13 07:23 PM Re: Summer NAMM July 2013 [Re: jarosujo]
Enthusiast Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/04/13
Posts: 168
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: jarosujo
Kawai: GF action in stage/portable/compact line pianos (ES/MP/CL)


According to what Kawai James has said that would make them even bigger and heavier than they already are.

What are the thoughts on RM3 and RM3II vs GF anyway? I have little experience to go on but initial feelings of the MP10 compared to the CA95 when trying them in a shop was that the MP10 actually felt a bit closer to an acoustic.

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#2109293 - 06/27/13 08:39 PM Re: Summer NAMM July 2013 [Re: Enthusiast]
gvfarns Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 3474
Loc: Pennsylvania
Originally Posted By: Enthusiast
According to what Kawai James has said that would make them even bigger and heavier than they already are.


Totally worth it. I think Kawai may have imagined that the MP10 and VPC could be used on a stage but in practice almost all of us use them at home or in the studio and don't care about how much they weigh, particularly. It seems that the manufacturers have had a hard time understanding that the slab form factor is desirable, and not just for people who are gigging. Actually, probably the main reason slab form factor pianos are awesome is that you can get them online and through big box retailers at great prices and availability instead of searching far and wide for a piano retailer who doesn't even have it in stock, wants to haggle, feeds you misinformation, and ultimately charges a high markup.

Anyway, the RM3 and RM3II actions hardly qualify as portable in my opinion. No one carries them by themselves and though a GF action may add weight, two people who can carry an RM3 piano can also carry GF. In my opinion it was a miscalculation on their part to use RM3II in the VPC1.

Quote:
What are the thoughts on RM3 and RM3II vs GF anyway? I have little experience to go on but initial feelings of the MP10 compared to the CA95 when trying them in a shop was that the MP10 actually felt a bit closer to an acoustic.


Unfortunately I haven't had the chance to try GF yet so I can't comment on this directly. By all accounts RM3 and RM3II are great actions (my piano uses their ancestor, AWA PRO). Their deficiency is known, though: Total key length is long, but the distance from the front of the key to the effective fulcrum is shorter than some other actions (including folded actions like PHAIII, apparently). The result is that the amount of force required to produce a given velocity at the front of the keys is relatively larger than is required at the back of the key. It's always harder to play at the back of the keys and we all get used to it, but this is less true for longer keys. Key length is by no means the only ingredient in a great action, but it's one that's relatively easy to measure.

GF remedies the key length issue by placing the fulcrum back farther. Whether this brings downsides along with it (key bounce, apparently?) or not hasn't been fully established as many people have not had a chance to test GF fully.


Edited by gvfarns (06/27/13 08:43 PM)

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#2109474 - 06/28/13 05:37 AM Re: Summer NAMM July 2013 [Re: gvfarns]
KLSinCT Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/07/12
Posts: 148
Loc: Stonington, CT USA
Originally Posted By: gvfarns
Originally Posted By: Enthusiast
According to what Kawai James has said that would make them even bigger and heavier than they already are.


Totally worth it. I think Kawai may have imagined that the MP10 and VPC could be used on a stage but in practice almost all of us use them at home or in the studio and don't care about how much they weigh, particularly. It seems that the manufacturers have had a hard time understanding that the slab form factor is desirable, and not just for people who are gigging. Actually, probably the main reason slab form factor pianos are awesome is that you can get them online and through big box retailers at great prices and availability instead of searching far and wide for a piano retailer who doesn't even have it in stock, wants to haggle, feeds you misinformation, and ultimately charges a high markup.

Anyway, the RM3 and RM3II actions hardly qualify as portable in my opinion. No one carries them by themselves and though a GF action may add weight, two people who can carry an RM3 piano can also carry GF. In my opinion it was a miscalculation on their part to use RM3II in the VPC1.

Quote:
What are the thoughts on RM3 and RM3II vs GF anyway? I have little experience to go on but initial feelings of the MP10 compared to the CA95 when trying them in a shop was that the MP10 actually felt a bit closer to an acoustic.


Unfortunately I haven't had the chance to try GF yet so I can't comment on this directly. By all accounts RM3 and RM3II are great actions (my piano uses their ancestor, AWA PRO). Their deficiency is known, though: Total key length is long, but the distance from the front of the key to the effective fulcrum is shorter than some other actions (including folded actions like PHAIII, apparently). The result is that the amount of force required to produce a given velocity at the front of the keys is relatively larger than is required at the back of the key. It's always harder to play at the back of the keys and we all get used to it, but this is less true for longer keys. Key length is by no means the only ingredient in a great action, but it's one that's relatively easy to measure.

GF remedies the key length issue by placing the fulcrum back farther. Whether this brings downsides along with it (key bounce, apparently?) or not hasn't been fully established as many people have not had a chance to test GF fully.


Thanks for writing exactly what I've been thinking all along, gvfarns!

Cheers,

K.
_________________________
Kevin L. Spindler
Early Keyboard Instruments
Stonington, CT
Harpsichords & Clavichords
Custom Instruments Built to Order
Rebuilding, Repair & Restoration
http://www.facebook.com/kevin.spindler.129

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#2110410 - 06/30/13 12:34 AM Re: Summer NAMM July 2013 [Re: Marko in Boston]
Marko in Boston Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/12
Posts: 597
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts
Not a DP, but at least it's something new...

Korg PA900

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COyBiTzV1Wc


Edited by Marko in Boston (06/30/13 12:35 AM)

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#2115540 - 07/10/13 06:50 AM Re: Summer NAMM July 2013 [Re: Marko in Boston]
Marko in Boston Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/12
Posts: 597
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts

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#2115609 - 07/10/13 10:17 AM Re: Summer NAMM July 2013 [Re: Marko in Boston]
gvfarns Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 3474
Loc: Pennsylvania
Interesting. I wonder what type of sensors they have in place to make that work. Clearly not the 2 or 3 switch electromechanical sensors we have in most DP's.

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#2115636 - 07/10/13 11:34 AM Re: Summer NAMM July 2013 [Re: gvfarns]
Marko in Boston Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/12
Posts: 597
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts
Originally Posted By: gvfarns
Interesting. I wonder what type of sensors they have in place to make that work. Clearly not the 2 or 3 switch electromechanical sensors we have in most DP's.


It is interseting. Kind of like the Roli Seaboard (or maybe not at all for that matter)


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#2115777 - 07/10/13 05:10 PM Re: Summer NAMM July 2013 [Re: gvfarns]
willf Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/02/10
Posts: 92
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: gvfarns
Interesting. I wonder what type of sensors they have in place to make that work. Clearly not the 2 or 3 switch electromechanical sensors we have in most DP's.


http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/ndvr-note-masterkeyboard--24

It is explained, at least in outline, here.
_________________________
willf

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#2116685 - 07/12/13 04:33 PM Re: Summer NAMM July 2013 [Re: Marko in Boston]
dje31 Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 210
So, I'm guessing, given the deafening silence and lack of buzz---or coverage in general---ain't nuttin' happenin' (again) ?
_________________________
Yamaha CP33 | Roland XP-30

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#2116716 - 07/12/13 06:23 PM Re: Summer NAMM July 2013 [Re: Marko in Boston]
Marko in Boston Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/12
Posts: 597
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts
Yup, it was a dud for keyboards and DPs. It seems the focus was aimed at the guitar players this time.

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#2116775 - 07/12/13 09:47 PM Re: Summer NAMM July 2013 [Re: Marko in Boston]
MarkF786 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/31/13
Posts: 25
I've got a new Taylor acoustic guitar to hold me over until the RD-700NX replacement is released ;-)

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#2116785 - 07/12/13 10:33 PM Re: Summer NAMM July 2013 [Re: MarkF786]
Marko in Boston Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/12
Posts: 597
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts
Ouch, a guitar post.

...kick us while we're already down ;-)

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#2117072 - 07/13/13 04:00 PM Re: Summer NAMM July 2013 [Re: Marko in Boston]
JFP Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1317
Loc: The Netherlands
Nothing at all ( for keyboard players / pianists )?


Edited by JFP (07/13/13 04:01 PM)

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#2117079 - 07/13/13 04:17 PM Re: Summer NAMM July 2013 [Re: Marko in Boston]
erichlof Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 358
Is the Seaboard at NAMM 2013? Did anyone here get a chance to try it out? It looks interesting, I'm just wondering how responsive it is.

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#2118550 - 07/16/13 01:14 PM Re: Summer NAMM July 2013 [Re: Marko in Boston]
Marko in Boston Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/12
Posts: 597
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts
Good effort Mike, but it looks like you were outnumbered by the guitar players this time.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=veDWeNU4GLE


Edited by Marko in Boston (07/16/13 01:18 PM)

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