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#2107915 - 06/25/13 04:10 PM A talk on Beethoven
fnork Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/01/04
Posts: 1812
Loc: Helsinki, Finland
I found this discussion rather rewarding:

http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/musicshow/paavali-jumppanen-on-beethoven/4668384

Paavali J. discusses various issues relating to Beethoven, his life and his works. For someone that has performed all piano sonatas (as well as all violin sonatas and concerti, etc) many times as a cycle, it's very nice to see that he is so down-to-earth and frequently says that he (or Beethoven scholars in general) doesn't necessarily know everything. What does the pedal indication for op 27 nr 2 mean? Does Beethoven's notation of the upbeat in 1st movement of Hammerklavier mean it must be played by one hand? Etc etc. Enjoy.

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#2107920 - 06/25/13 04:22 PM Re: A talk on Beethoven [Re: fnork]
Orange Soda King Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/25/09
Posts: 6127
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky, United S...
Thanks for sharing. Always good to hear a professional's insight about Beethoven. This is why I'm also going to do Jonathan Biss's (Biss'? Punctuation rule fail) free online course on Beethoven's piano sonatas, as mentioned in an earlier thread.

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#2107958 - 06/25/13 04:48 PM Re: A talk on Beethoven [Re: fnork]
JoelW Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 5022
Loc: USA
It's a name, therefore it's "Biss's".

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#2107962 - 06/25/13 04:53 PM Re: A talk on Beethoven [Re: fnork]
Polyphonist Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 8102
Loc: New York City
In fact, the rules for possessives are more complex than you know, as some names receive only an apostrophe and not an s. laugh

(Very confusing stuff.)
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

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#2109082 - 06/27/13 01:24 PM Re: A talk on Beethoven [Re: fnork]
fnork Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/01/04
Posts: 1812
Loc: Helsinki, Finland
ha, that much for keeping the discussion about Beethoven wink I've heard Paavali's (correct use of the apostrophe, I hope?!) Beethoven live a few times and will hear him again later in July. It's often fairly extreme in tempi, have rarely heard such fast tempis in the outer movements of Appassionata. In any case, I like that he's very undogmatic, doesn't preach about anything and doesn't encourage anyone else to follow his path interpretation-wise.

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#2109114 - 06/27/13 02:30 PM Re: A talk on Beethoven [Re: fnork]
AndyJ Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/29/12
Posts: 220
Loc: Near Dayton, Ohio USA
Originally Posted By: fnork
Paavali's (correct use of the apostrophe, I hope?!) Beethoven....

Yes, congratulations!

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#2109162 - 06/27/13 04:11 PM Re: A talk on Beethoven [Re: fnork]
fnork Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/01/04
Posts: 1812
Loc: Helsinki, Finland
awesome! let's keep talking about apostrophes!!!

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#2109164 - 06/27/13 04:12 PM Re: A talk on Beethoven [Re: fnork]
Orange Soda King Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/25/09
Posts: 6127
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky, United S...
Oh no!! I just misuse'd two apostrophe's!! frown frown

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#2109263 - 06/27/13 07:49 PM Re: A talk on Beethoven [Re: fnork]
The Hound Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/17/11
Posts: 124
Generally speaking it's nothing to do with it being a name or not, but whether it's singular. So, for example, "the boss's computer" takes an "'s" on the end, like "Biss's". Whereas if it were multiple bosses, it would be "bosses' computers". There are a few exceptions - basically when "'s" becomes unwieldy - but that's the general rule.

Anyway, Beethoven. There can never be too much talk about him, so thanks for the link - will be sure to check it out.

Has anyone here seen "In Search Of Beethoven" (and the accompanying "In Search Of Mozart"), by the way?


Edited by The Hound (06/27/13 07:50 PM)

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#2109271 - 06/27/13 08:03 PM Re: A talk on Beethoven [Re: The Hound]
beet31425 Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/09
Posts: 3871
Loc: Bay Area, CA
Originally Posted By: The Hound
Generally speaking it's nothing to do with it being a name or not, but whether it's singular. So, for example, "the boss's computer" takes an "'s" on the end, like "Biss's". Whereas if it were multiple bosses, it would be "bosses' computers". There are a few exceptions - basically when "'s" becomes unwieldy - but that's the general rule.
There's some debate on precisely when "s becomes unwieldy". I personally like s's for all name possessives: hence "Bliss's class" and "Gauss's Law". But for some reason "Jesus" is usually an exception, as in "Jesus' son".

Originally Posted By: The Hound
Has anyone here seen "In Search Of Beethoven" (and the accompanying "In Search Of Mozart"), by the way?

Yes, I saw the Beethoven film last weekend. It's a sensitive, informative, beautifully-made, very long depiction of Beethoven's entire life. Highly recommended!

-Jason
_________________________
Beethoven op.111 first movement -- Liszt 11th Hungarian Rhapsody -- Rachmaninoff B minor Prelude -- Chopin first Ballade

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#2109274 - 06/27/13 08:10 PM Re: A talk on Beethoven [Re: beet31425]
The Hound Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/17/11
Posts: 124
Originally Posted By: beet31425
Originally Posted By: The Hound
Generally speaking it's nothing to do with it being a name or not, but whether it's singular. So, for example, "the boss's computer" takes an "'s" on the end, like "Biss's". Whereas if it were multiple bosses, it would be "bosses' computers". There are a few exceptions - basically when "'s" becomes unwieldy - but that's the general rule.
There's some debate on precisely when "s becomes unwieldy". I personally like s's for all name possessives: hence "Bliss's class" and "Gauss's Law". But for some reason "Jesus" is usually an exception, as in "Jesus' son".


Yes. Like you say, "Jesus", often only takes an apostrophe in the possessive, even though I don't personally find it unwieldy at all to have an apostrophe follwed by an "s" on that word. It's not always agreed on where the exceptions lie. I was just trying to make the general rule clear. There's often confusion over it, and a lot of people mistakenly use only an apostrophe on any name or word ending in "s".

Quote:
Originally Posted By: The Hound
Has anyone here seen "In Search Of Beethoven" (and the accompanying "In Search Of Mozart"), by the way?

Yes, I saw the Beethoven film last weekend. It's a sensitive, informative, beautifully-made, very long depiction of Beethoven's entire life. Highly recommended!

-Jason


Me too - I thought it was wonderfully informative and very nicely made. Essentially, I agree with all of your chosen adjectives. smile

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#2109349 - 06/27/13 10:55 PM Re: A talk on Beethoven [Re: fnork]
Orange Soda King Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/25/09
Posts: 6127
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky, United S...
This is actually one of the most interesting talk's on Beethoven Iv'e heard seen/recently, actually.

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