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#2095088 - 06/04/13 07:31 AM Couple MIDI questions
tomek Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/08/13
Posts: 22
Loc: Cracow, Poland
1) which feature in DP's allows to play external sounds threw internal speakers ? i've read somewhere that CN34 can do it (?)

2) we all know that Dp's allow us to use them as a midi keyboard. But, is it possible to import two layering sounds and play them in the same time? (ex. piano & strings) I know that most Dp's have this feature in basic, but i wonder if they can play it "from outside"

3) i've asked second question because i fell in love with that layer sound of roland http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvpogWs30mY (first 32 secodns before he switched to piano/strings) and i can't afford to buy 50x roland.

by the way, i consider to buy CN34

(sory for my english, i willy am)


Edited by tomek (06/04/13 07:49 AM)
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#2095097 - 06/04/13 08:03 AM Re: Couple MIDI questions [Re: tomek]
MagicK Offline
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Registered: 11/20/12
Posts: 70
Loc: Germany
The CN34 can play sound from the "outside" through the internal speakers. They can come from USB (mp3/wav) or via line-in. But the DP only acts as a speaker system, you can't "play" other sounds via keaboard if that's what you mean with importing.

You can layer any internal sound with every other and i guess they would also be transmitted via midi.

If you want to play other sounds than the built-in you have to use a computer via midi.

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#2095103 - 06/04/13 08:26 AM Re: Couple MIDI questions [Re: tomek]
tomek Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/08/13
Posts: 22
Loc: Cracow, Poland
to bad frown i thought that i could play midi via DP's speakers.

does onboard adjustments work with midi sounds ? (ex. balance between imported layered sounds, reverb, brilliance etc).


Edited by tomek (06/04/13 08:29 AM)
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#2095113 - 06/04/13 08:51 AM Re: Couple MIDI questions [Re: tomek]
MagicK Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/20/12
Posts: 70
Loc: Germany
You can of course play midi from a computer through the CN34. But it will of course use the internal sounds. Midi only transmits data like which key was pressed how long etc. Midi does not transport actual sound data. Maybe its a misunderstaning.
Could you try to explain, what you actually want to do with the DP?

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#2095117 - 06/04/13 09:00 AM Re: Couple MIDI questions [Re: tomek]
toddy Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/30/11
Posts: 1568
Loc: Portugal
Where do you want to get your 'midi' sounds from?
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#2095120 - 06/04/13 09:06 AM Re: Couple MIDI questions [Re: MagicK]
tomek Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/08/13
Posts: 22
Loc: Cracow, Poland
i thought i did smile

ok, i know how controler works - just as a same method as pc keyboard is. Normally when we press key on DP, signal goes (via midi or USB to host) to PC (midi software engine) and it sounds in speakers conencted to PC. I wonder is it possible to hear that sound in DP internal speakers.

i hope you get it what i've mentioned

@toddy , - from PC of course


Edited by tomek (06/04/13 09:08 AM)
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#2095127 - 06/04/13 09:18 AM Re: Couple MIDI questions [Re: tomek]
toddy Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/30/11
Posts: 1568
Loc: Portugal
Yes, you can connect the output of the computer to the line inputs on the piano. In this case, the piano is simply acting as an amplifier, as MagicK said.

But, yes, you can trigger any sound from the piano, over midi. This could be an external sound module, another midi keyboard or software in the computer.

Then, that sound can be fed back to the speakers in the piano, via the line inputs, if you wish.
_________________________
Roland HP 302, Yamaha SY85

Reaper / NI Komplete 9 /Kontakt 5// EWQL Sym Choirs/ Sym Orchestra Silver/ MOR2
Mics: SP B1 & MXL V67g/ Alesis MicTube Preamp/ Xenyx302/ Yamaha HS7s .

"Only a fool is fooled" pv88, All Fools' Day 2014.

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#2095156 - 06/04/13 10:06 AM Re: Couple MIDI questions [Re: tomek]
MagicK Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/20/12
Posts: 70
Loc: Germany
I don't understand the second question. What do you mean with layering 2 external sound?

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#2095166 - 06/04/13 10:34 AM Re: Couple MIDI questions [Re: MagicK]
Kbeaumont Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/26/10
Posts: 257
Loc: Virginia, USA
It sounds like he wants to play one sound from the DP and the other from an external synth and have the resultant sounds both come through the internal speakers. Yes, you can. Though you will want to adjust the level to match or one to be dominant. You will need to do this from the external synth since the volume control on every digital piano with speakers I have seen controls the amp gain and is not midi volume. I have done just that with a Korg Radias module and a casio px-330.
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#2096780 - 06/06/13 05:50 AM Re: Couple MIDI questions [Re: tomek]
tomek Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/08/13
Posts: 22
Loc: Cracow, Poland
thanks mates !!

Summarising, configuration: layered DP Grand Piano + midi strings (from PC) is possible and adjustable (voluem balance) as well. That would be great matter.

99% certain to buy ES7


Edited by tomek (06/06/13 05:51 AM)
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#2107060 - 06/24/13 05:15 AM Re: Couple MIDI questions [Re: tomek]
tomek Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/08/13
Posts: 22
Loc: Cracow, Poland
where can i find midi vst's which sound similar (or the same) to these below ?

1) string pad (roland) http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=2q-vl94nLBM#t=178s

2) strings (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=tNj1pqaali0#t=40s)
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#2107341 - 06/24/13 05:12 PM Re: Couple MIDI questions [Re: tomek]
Enthusiast Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/04/13
Posts: 222
Loc: UK
This is something I'm struggling with. I've connected my Yamaha P-35 to a laptop with a Midi to USB cable (midi in on the P-35 is that right?) and got the Pianoteq demo.

The P-35 is recognized by the laptop, however after opening the Pianoteq demo I can't trigger it's sounds from the digital. In the tutorial vid it says to disable the on-board sounds but I don't know how to do that so when I press a key I get the P-35's sounds not Pianoteq's.


Edited by Enthusiast (06/24/13 05:16 PM)

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#2107377 - 06/24/13 06:18 PM Re: Couple MIDI questions [Re: Enthusiast]
galaxy4t Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/28/08
Posts: 851
Loc: Lakewood, CA
Enthusiast,
Do you have the volume turned up on your P-35? Did you select your computer's sound card in the Pianoteq MIDI setting as the playback device?

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#2107392 - 06/24/13 06:45 PM Re: Couple MIDI questions [Re: galaxy4t]
Enthusiast Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/04/13
Posts: 222
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: galaxy4t
Enthusiast,
Do you have the volume turned up on your P-35? Did you select your computer's sound card in the Pianoteq MIDI setting as the playback device?


Yes the volume is turned up, so when I press a key on the P35 I get it's on board sound.

In the audio/midi setup on Pianoteq I tried all 3 of the audio device types, there was no sound card on the laptop but we got asio4all for the asio option there. Same problem. I can press the keys on Pianoteq'a virtual keyboard and get the sound through the laptop but not by pressing keys on the P35.

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#2107448 - 06/24/13 08:57 PM Re: Couple MIDI questions [Re: Enthusiast]
galaxy4t Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/28/08
Posts: 851
Loc: Lakewood, CA
It sounds like you don't have your laptop's audio card selected in MIDI as the playback device. If using ASIO4All, you have to select it in there. You should turn the sound down all the way down on your P-35.

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#2107490 - 06/24/13 10:06 PM Re: Couple MIDI questions [Re: tomek]
R0B Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/03/08
Posts: 1438
Loc: Australia
Hope I am reading this correctly, but to trigger Pianoteq from your DP, you need to connect to MIDI OUT. (MIDI signals go OUT from the DP, INTO the computer.)

Apologies for replying to Tomek's post. It is a reply to Enthusiast smile
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#2107606 - 06/25/13 02:18 AM Re: Couple MIDI questions [Re: Enthusiast]
PtJaa Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/14/12
Posts: 176
Loc: Czech Republic
Originally Posted By: Enthusiast
In the tutorial vid it says to disable the on-board sounds but I don't know how to do that so when I press a key I get the P-35's sounds not Pianoteq's.

Normally, you would disable internal P35 sounds by turning "Local Control" off. However, P35 doesn't have this ability, so you just set "Volume" on P35 to minimum, as Galaxy4t says.

Originally Posted By: Enthusiast

In the audio/midi setup on Pianoteq I tried all 3 of the audio device types, there was no sound card on the laptop but we got asio4all for the asio option there. Same problem. I can press the keys on Pianoteq'a virtual keyboard and get the sound through the laptop but not by pressing keys on the P35.


So your Audio card is correctly set-up in Pianoteq. Problem is in the Midi device. Your USB-Midi cable must be checked in "Active MIDI inputs" in the same setup window in Pianoteq. Also, as ROB says, you must use Midi-Out port on P35, not Midi-In.

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#2107942 - 06/25/13 04:34 PM Re: Couple MIDI questions [Re: PtJaa]
Enthusiast Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/04/13
Posts: 222
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: PtJaa
Originally Posted By: Enthusiast
In the tutorial vid it says to disable the on-board sounds but I don't know how to do that so when I press a key I get the P-35's sounds not Pianoteq's.

Normally, you would disable internal P35 sounds by turning "Local Control" off. However, P35 doesn't have this ability, so you just set "Volume" on P35 to minimum, as Galaxy4t says.

Originally Posted By: Enthusiast

In the audio/midi setup on Pianoteq I tried all 3 of the audio device types, there was no sound card on the laptop but we got asio4all for the asio option there. Same problem. I can press the keys on Pianoteq'a virtual keyboard and get the sound through the laptop but not by pressing keys on the P35.


So your Audio card is correctly set-up in Pianoteq. Problem is in the Midi device. Your USB-Midi cable must be checked in "Active MIDI inputs" in the same setup window in Pianoteq. Also, as ROB says, you must use Midi-Out port on P35, not Midi-In.


I did actually try connecting to the in port and then the out port making sure to use the correct wires each time. The laptop is my nephew's so I won't have access to try again until at least tomorrow. Will order my own laptop soon.

What I did do after reading these suggestions though is lug my old keyboard up to my desktop which has good specs and a soundcard. In the audio/midi setup in active midi inputs the keyboard is recognized as usb2 midi which I tick. Audio device type is Asio. Device is Xonar DS Asio(64)(my discrete soundcard). Active output channels are ticked as L and R. I continue to have the same problem as before.

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#2108269 - 06/26/13 08:47 AM Re: Couple MIDI questions [Re: Enthusiast]
PtJaa Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/14/12
Posts: 176
Loc: Czech Republic
What cable end do you plug into the midi-out keyboard socket? Half the usb/midi cables require you to plug the "midi-in" end and the other half the "midi-out" end (because midi-out on a cable can mean either "plug me into the midi-out socket" or "this is the midi-out end")

FWIW, You don't need to care about audio if you just want to debug MIDI. Pianoteq has a nice debugging tool - the "MIDI" tab in the Options window. When you press a key on the KB, you should see a MIDI message appear in the upper widow there.
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#2108646 - 06/26/13 07:25 PM Re: Couple MIDI questions [Re: PtJaa]
Enthusiast Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/04/13
Posts: 222
Loc: UK
I'm using the same usb to midi cable pictured in the Pianoteq tutorial vid. I put the cable labeled out into the out socket on the digital. It's this one
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Adapter-USB-to-M...rds=usb+to+midi

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#2108698 - 06/26/13 08:27 PM Re: Couple MIDI questions [Re: Enthusiast]
R0B Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/03/08
Posts: 1438
Loc: Australia
Originally Posted By: Enthusiast
I put the cable labeled out into the out socket on the digital. It's this one
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Adapter-USB-to-M...rds=usb+to+midi


Using that MIDI/USB adapter, you need to connect the cable labeled: 'IN', to the socket labeled: 'OUT' on your DP.

As I mentioned previously, MIDI information flows OUT from the DP, INTO, the USB adapter/computer.

If your Pianoteq settings are correct, and it still doesn't work, then I would suspect a faulty adapter.
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#2109166 - 06/27/13 04:17 PM Re: Couple MIDI questions [Re: R0B]
Enthusiast Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/04/13
Posts: 222
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: R0B
Originally Posted By: Enthusiast
I put the cable labeled out into the out socket on the digital. It's this one
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Adapter-USB-to-M...rds=usb+to+midi


Using that MIDI/USB adapter, you need to connect the cable labeled: 'IN', to the socket labeled: 'OUT' on your DP.

As I mentioned previously, MIDI information flows OUT from the DP, INTO, the USB adapter/computer.

If your Pianoteq settings are correct, and it still doesn't work, then I would suspect a faulty adapter.


Thanks a lot, that seems to have been the problem. It now works fine. I was confused by the labeling of out and in and thought they had to correspond. If the P-35 had a usb connection it would've been a lot simpler.

Next thing to try will be to get VSTs playing from the internal speakers. I'll have another look at the tutorial vid and see what wires are necessary.

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#2109273 - 06/27/13 08:06 PM Re: Couple MIDI questions [Re: Enthusiast]
R0B Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/03/08
Posts: 1438
Loc: Australia
Pleased you got it working smile

Most of us have probably made the same mistake, at first.
Maybe the documentation that comes with midi gear should be made more clear.
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#2109857 - 06/28/13 06:39 PM Re: Couple MIDI questions [Re: R0B]
Enthusiast Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/04/13
Posts: 222
Loc: UK
Ironically I found the instructions for the cable after reading this suggestion and it did actually say to connect the in cable to the out socket of the midi keyboard.

Is it possible to play VSTs from the internal speakers of the Yamaha P-35? Looking at that tutorial vid I can see how the audio cables go into the laptop (through the RCA adapter into the headphone socket) but not how they connect to the keyboard. There's sockets for the power cable, sustain pedal and headphones only. There's also no switch to turn off internal sounds.

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#2110025 - 06/29/13 01:49 AM Re: Couple MIDI questions [Re: tomek]
R0B Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/03/08
Posts: 1438
Loc: Australia
As your DP has no line, or audio inputs, you will be unable to play VST instruments through the internal speakers.

Your options are:

1, Connect a set of usb PC speakers to your laptop.

2, Connect a home stereo system to your laptop audio output.

3, If you are serious about using VSTi's for best quality sounds, I would suggest you invest in an external usb audio interface, and a good set of powered monitors.
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#2110280 - 06/29/13 05:27 PM Re: Couple MIDI questions [Re: R0B]
Enthusiast Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/04/13
Posts: 222
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: R0B
As your DP has no line, or audio inputs, you will be unable to play VST instruments through the internal speakers.

Your options are:

1, Connect a set of usb PC speakers to your laptop.

2, Connect a home stereo system to your laptop audio output.

3, If you are serious about using VSTi's for best quality sounds, I would suggest you invest in an external usb audio interface, and a good set of powered monitors.


The P-35 I'm just using for the moment, but will likely upgrade to something much better next year alongside good monitors. In the meantime I have Sennheiser 558HD headphones I can use.

When choosing my laptop I have options for external soundcards like the Asus Xonar U7. How do they compare to external audio interfaces?

Also the usb to midi cable I have is now not being recognized. I've tried it on 3 different systems but I get the same message. Might need to get a new cable but are more expensive ones any better? Is this one worth it?
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Roland-UM-ONE-MK...rds=usb+to+midi
or this?
http://www.rubadub.co.uk/art-art-m-conne...CFVDJtAoduxsAxQ


Edited by Enthusiast (06/29/13 06:30 PM)

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