Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Teachers Forum Do you feel students need to use a metronome? If so when?

Just curious!

As a student, I say, not with everything. But, there are some times it is almost manditory.

What would be an example of a mandatory time to use one?

I tend to use one in the first or second lesson. I just get them to turn it on, off, and slide the wee thingy up and down, guessing whether it makes it faster and slower. I'll sometimes do clapping rhythms to the 'nome.

If is is used for real playing, it is mostly to slow things down, or to prove to the student they really can't do it at the fast speed they want to go at.

But I have mostly beginners and I think serious players tend to use it more, and more wisely.

My daughter has only used one once when her brother insisted she use it (he had to play piano in school). Her teacher has never asked her to use one (which is fine by me), she is told to count when she plays.

Yes, to help correct uneven scales. And to help develop speed.

I use metronome on FIRST lesson. I asked new or transfer students to clap following the metronome, then I can tell if he can follow or not. For some people, internal rhythm is not something they born with, so, they need extra training.
Beginner books that I use has a CD that comes with it. It counted as "metronome" if student practice with it at home.
So to answer your question, yes, I use metronome from day 1 of piano lesson.

from the very first lessons, since a strong sense of rhythm is crucial!

I have two free metronome apps on my phone, and one of them has a space where you yourself can tap and it will tell you your speed. I can keep it fairly steady, but it is harder than you think!

I'm wondering if an addition to that question might be:
- How would you like your students to use the metronome, and when?
- How would you like them NOT to use the metronome?

My personal opinion, which likely few agree with: never use it for incremental speedup. Example, a piece needs to be at q = 120, I can play it at 90, so I set metronome at 60, play through, move up to 61, play through, etc. Horrible! But widely praised in some circles.



At all other times! Hee, hee. But especially as a check for continuity between sections, and loss of the strong beat during syncopation. Or at any time rushing or dragging is not detected.

I use one fairly frequently, enough to calibrate my internal pulse.

I doubt any of my handbell ringers owns one. But I make them follow me, which hopefully has some of the same benefits.

Can you expound on this? My teacher did this in high school with me, and it seemed to work great. I've used it once or twice with a student as well, and they seem to love the challenge and the discovery that, with practice, they can move the ticker up a few bpm.

To answer the original post, I use metronomes all the time. Rhythm is the #1 thing beginning students struggle with, in my experience. Metronomes don't work if you can't stay with them, so I've had to be wise about my use of them and not prescribe them without any guidance or explanation. Still, when used prudently, I find they're a great teaching tool.

I have same question mark as you Brinestone!! I do not understand why would be it be horrible, maybe Tim can enlighten us.

Some additional input:

http://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=3002.msg26246#msg26246

http://www.stetina.com/lessons/metronome.html

and if you really feel like reading, http://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,3778.msg35061.html#msg35061

I have a drum machine, metronomes - but when I began learning the piano - I have never used a metronome because when I had a sax teacher, he taught me to count through the measures.

Now I can't afford a teacher, but when I began piano I was very careful of about knowing the note values and counting the note values through the measures.

So two things occurred. I learned how to read and play the music accurately so I didn't need a recording to listen to how it was supposed to sound.

And I didn't need a metronome because I soon could feel the note values within my body.

Increasing ones ability to play faster is done very slowly over a long period of time/practice, so it isn't the metronome that is of any help in the speed building.

But people who haven't learned note values and knowing how to count and play through the measures accurately are in lots of trouble until they have learned that knowledge.

But when one gets to very complicated music at Presto/200, it may be that a metronome could be used for checking accuracy, but if you play a piece slowly and accurately, you should still be okay as you are speed building if you play in the same fashion - except that as humans we can go slower and faster related to performance, fear, etc. - another issue.

I know when I play I can immediately hear the slightist error of timing.

Gee, incremental speed up is one of the situations I feel a metronome is manditory. I know it has helped me with Bach and Mozart especially. I also feel that if a metronome is not used during the learning of a piece, it can be very revealing to use it to reveal rushed measures in a nearly finished piece.

Believe it or not, I used to have a riding instructor who had people keep set of keys in there pocket during trotting to help maintain a steady rhythm. Even when heeling a dog for competition it can be helpful to establish and then maintain a steady pace.

Some students have an internal metronome and can keep a beat. Others have to acquire that skill through the use of counting and a metronome. Also, if used early, students get over the fear of using one. It can be a very valuable tool in a student's learning. They should get comfortable using one. Because, it's just a aid and not a big deal to use one.

I am not a piano teacher, but I use it to slow down my daughter's playing.

Sometimes she works on a short section (say 2-4 measures) and keeps tripping over that section. She tends to keep playing that section again in high speed incorrectly, even when I ask her to slow it down.

But if I set the metronome on a slow speed, and ask her to play that short section following the metronome, she will play that section correctly.

Not a teacher, either, but as one who uses a metronome in regular practice, I think that speed should only be increased as one gets sufficient command of a piece that the current tempo becomes maddeningly slow. I think it would be a mistake to increase the tempo in an effort to "push" yourself to be able to play it faster. That would seem to go against all we've ever been told about the value of slow practice. Really, once you've achieved thorough command of a piece, playing it faster is pretty easy.

From the introduction to the MacFarren Scale and Arpeggio Manual (1915):
"Slow practice is GOLDEN; quick practice is LEADEN".

Tend to rush, I love the way you worded this. I am trying to tell my students that all the time, but they don't believe me and "tend to rush." I am tempted to print it up in a pretty font and frame it by my piano. (Okay, maybe not really.)

It can work, and it can be counterproductive. I'm short of time, but I'll try to explain a couple of my ideas briefly.

It can work when the main impediment to fast play is unfamiliarity with the piece, rather than lack of technique or incorrect technique. Rostropovich was said to have started learning pieces very slowly, yet clearly he had all the necessary technique to play at tempo.

Caveat: I think like a brass player, not a pianist.

Back to my example: my requirement is 120, my top speed is 90, so I'm going to drop down to 60 and speed up one beat at a time. I'll move right past 90 so slowly I don't even notice.

Q: Why is my current top speed 90? A: Because I'm doing something wrong.

So what happens on the 30 repetitions between 60 and 90 as I speed up incrementally? Practice makes permanent, and I'm practicing the techniques that I've already proven don't work at speed until they are perfect.

I'll usually get past 90, maybe to 95, or even 100. Wrong technique thoroughly practiced can be pushed a little faster. But then you hit a plateau. In the brass world, sometimes for years. Once you've learned something very very well you sometimes build in a speed wall that's hard to get past, sometimes impossible.

Now, another thing happened on those 30 repetitions. You become fatigued, mentally and physically. Fatigue can create error, and error can deviate from wrong technique into right technique. So this approach can sometimes work, for an unusual reason. But there are far more efficient ways.

a rephrasing of Tim's answer and a discussion on speed walls and a tunnel-vision reliance on metronomic incremental speed-ups: http://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=4282.msg39817#msg39817 (i.e. it's in the motions; don't practice slow - practice in slow motion)