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#2110954 - 07/01/13 02:18 AM da capo al fine senza ripetizione - 1st or 2nd ending?
casinitaly Offline

Gold Supporter until March 1 2014


Registered: 03/01/10
Posts: 5259
Loc: Italy
Hello, my teacher is not available for a while, and I've got a question about a piece I'm working on: Schumann's Sicilienne.

The piece starts with 2 repeated sections, the second of which has 2 endings.

When I play d.c. al fine senza ripetizione, am I to play the second ending or the first? (it falls before the "fine", not at the "fine")

I've been trying to listen to performances on youtube but they are all different, and most disconcerting of all is the University of Iowa Piano Pedagogy Video Recording Project, where the performance doesn't even go to the "fine"!!!

I'm sure there is a general rule on this - but when I was working with my teacher I had just reached working out all the technical bits, and hadn't done the da capo when we finished lessons for the summer, and I hadn't realized I didn't understand this bit.

My gut feeling is that I should use the second ending - but gut feelings aren't always right!

Thanks in advance for any advice you may have for me.
_________________________
XVIII-XXXV
Everything's too hard until you make it easy. Follow your teacher's instructions and practice wisely/much, and you'll soon wonder how you ever found it hard ;)-BobPickle
Performance anxiety: make it part of your daily routine and deal with it...Cope! zrtf90

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#2110958 - 07/01/13 02:41 AM Re: da capo al fine senza ripetizione - 1st or 2nd ending? [Re: casinitaly]
Gary D. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/30/08
Posts: 4814
Loc: South Florida
If you know that d.c. al fine senza ripetizione = go back to the beginning and start at "the top", then go to the end without repetitions, you already know everything that anyone else knows. So just use your own musical judgment, or go by what sounds best to you. If taking the first endings causes you to repeat material, go to the second endings. If the final second ending (wherever you see the word "fine") will take you to a spot or measure that sounds final, just do that.

Perhaps someone else knows the music you are talking about. Usually skipping repeats involves skipping 1st endings.
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#2110961 - 07/01/13 02:57 AM Re: da capo al fine senza ripetizione - 1st or 2nd ending? [Re: Gary D.]
casinitaly Offline

Gold Supporter until March 1 2014


Registered: 03/01/10
Posts: 5259
Loc: Italy
Originally Posted By: Gary D.
If you know that d.c. al fine senza ripetizione = go back to the beginning and start at "the top", then go to the end without repetitions, you already know everything that anyone else knows. So just use your own musical judgment, or go by what sounds best to you. If taking the first endings causes you to repeat material, go to the second endings. If the final second ending (wherever you see the word "fine") will take you to a spot or measure that sounds final, just do that.

Perhaps someone else knows the music you are talking about. Usually skipping repeats involves skipping 1st endings.


Note: Bold face and underlining are my additions.

Thank you Gary.
Both the first and the second first ending both sound ok. I was looking for an online copy of the sheet music to link to but can't find one. I just wanted to make clear that the 2nd ending isn't at the "fine" point.

However, your comment "usually skipping repeats involves skipping first endings" is exactly the guideline I was looking for. I figured there had to be a general rule, I just couldn't remember ever having this situation before.
_________________________
XVIII-XXXV
Everything's too hard until you make it easy. Follow your teacher's instructions and practice wisely/much, and you'll soon wonder how you ever found it hard ;)-BobPickle
Performance anxiety: make it part of your daily routine and deal with it...Cope! zrtf90

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#2110976 - 07/01/13 03:56 AM Re: da capo al fine senza ripetizione - 1st or 2nd ending? [Re: casinitaly]
Gary D. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/30/08
Posts: 4814
Loc: South Florida
Theoretically "fine" should mark the end, so wherever that is, and it should be notated exactly, should tell you the ending point.

I believe I would know exactly what you need to do if I saw the music, and most likely there will be others here who will say the same thing. smile
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#2110981 - 07/01/13 04:30 AM Re: da capo al fine senza ripetizione - 1st or 2nd ending? [Re: casinitaly]
Bobpickle Offline

Gold Supporter until July 10  2014


Registered: 05/24/12
Posts: 1383
Loc: Cameron Park, California
The piece can be found on page 9 of http://petrucci.mus.auth.gr/imglnks/usimg/0/0a/IMSLP51556-PMLP02707-RS67.pdf

with the mentioned University of Iowa Piano Pedagogy Video Recording Project here:

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#2110996 - 07/01/13 05:55 AM Re: da capo al fine senza ripetizione - 1st or 2nd ending? [Re: casinitaly]
Gary D. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/30/08
Posts: 4814
Loc: South Florida
The directions:

Vom Anfang ohne Wiederholung bis zim Schluss

From the beginning without repeat till the "closing" (end).

Which is no help.

No one knows where to end it because it is in the key of A minor. At the point where it says "Schluss" it cadences to C major (implied), relative major. But you have to stop on the 2nd beat (counting in 6), because it moves to E, dominant, and you can't stop there.

A lot of people are going to say, "Screw it, I'm going to end at the end of the page, where there is a final A minor chord."

"Dog's breakfast", as my Ozie friends say!
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#2111005 - 07/01/13 06:18 AM Re: da capo al fine senza ripetizione - 1st or 2nd ending? [Re: casinitaly]
casinitaly Offline

Gold Supporter until March 1 2014


Registered: 03/01/10
Posts: 5259
Loc: Italy
Thanks Bobpickle.

In my copy the "fine" is not where "schulss" shows in the link you provided - but the link you gave does explain why the Iowa U guy finished where he did..... In my copy the "fine" is just before the 32nd notes.


I think it sounds very very odd to end on the schulss as marked ---- because as Gary says,(far more articulately that I'm able to) the sound of the music implies that you are moving into something, not stopping.

So......as my Italian friends would say, with a shrugging of shoulders "boh!" . (A sound effect for "who knows".)

Thanks again!
_________________________
XVIII-XXXV
Everything's too hard until you make it easy. Follow your teacher's instructions and practice wisely/much, and you'll soon wonder how you ever found it hard ;)-BobPickle
Performance anxiety: make it part of your daily routine and deal with it...Cope! zrtf90

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