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#2111046 - 07/01/13 08:38 AM French Guide "How to properly hold handle relative a plate
Maximillyan Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/11
Posts: 1539
Loc: KZ
La plupart des accordeurs débutants se plaignent du manque de stabilité de leur accord.

Cette vidéo tentera d'expliquer une partie des forces et des éléments en jeu qui ont une influence sur la stabilité de l'accord.

En particulier, la MANIPULATION DE LA CLEF D'ACCORDAGE.

Un autre facteur important pour la stabilité de l'accord est la façon dont on manipule la clef d'accordage.

Une mauvaise manipulation de la clef d'accordage usera aussi prématurément le sommier en bois dans lequel les chevilles d'accordage sont plantées.

Le souci de l'accordeur sera de s'assurer de ne jamais déranger la cheville sur son plan instable (dans le sens du prolongement de la corde)

La tension de 80Kg a tendance à « tirer » sur la cheville sur laquelle la corde est montée. Même si on utilise du bois très dur comme de l'érable pour fabriquer les sommiers (pièce de bois laminé de 5cm d'épaisseur dans laquelle les chevilles d'accord sont plantées), la pression constante de 80Kg tend à le déformer dans le sens de la corde. La cheville s'y installe et veut demeurer dans cette position. Tout ce qu'on fait avec la clef d'accordage menace de changer cette position au repos de la cheville et donc, la stabilité de l'accord en souffre.

La cheville se « place » dans l'espace de l'usure qu'elle a créé.

Le défi sera de ne pas déranger la cheville de cette position de « repos » et donc de stabilité.

Pour ce faire, vous ne bougerez jamais la clef d'accordage dans le sens longitudinal de la corde.
http://youtu.be/Ih88T4cZAC8


Edited by Maximillyan (07/01/13 08:39 AM)
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#2111084 - 07/01/13 10:03 AM Re: French Guide "How to properly hold handle relative a plate [Re: Maximillyan]
Olek Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7901
Loc: France
I dont know if you copied that for me.

That are bases, rotational plane angle is to be perceived and respected.

Once one knows perfectly what is that rotational plane then he can work with it. Even Jean with his bumping method by reflex pushes on the lever sometime when the pin grips and does not want to turn counter clockwise.

It is very important not to push or pull, for tuning, as you do on some videos,to change the tension, the pin is twisted or turned, never bend,

But the tension from the string bend a little the tuning pin, and torque it also a little.

Those are minimal deformations, and the wood of the block probably moves more than the pin , but one can recognize them as well.

When one say to leave the pin "neutral" that mean only "charged" by the wire .

The pin can be made active and then provide a better fixture.

All that without bending and causing trouble to the wood, but small motions I believe are more "sanding" the wood than a slow one.
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#2111842 - 07/02/13 10:08 PM Re: French Guide "How to properly hold handle relative a plate [Re: Olek]
Maximillyan Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/11
Posts: 1539
Loc: KZ
Originally Posted By: Olek
I dont know if you copied that for me.

Yes, Isaac and for you too. But it's clip can be very need for beginner tuner,I'm think so. To understand how don't bend a pin

Another important factor for the stability of the agreement factor is how the tuning hammer are handled.
Mishandling of the tuning hammer also prematurely breaking wooden "bed" hole base where the tuning pins are planted.

The concern loose if he will sure never to disturb a pin on unstable surface (in the direction of extension of the string)
Even if using hard wood like maple to make the mattress (a piece of laminated wood 5cm thick in which the tuning pins are planted), the constant pressure of 80Kg tends to deform in the direction of a string. A pin settles and wants to remain in this position. The challenge is not to disturb the position of the pin "rest" and therefore made it's stability.

To do this, you will never going to change your tuning hammer in the longitudinal direction of the string.



A handle must drive very near to direction of the string. The best point is 12:00.
http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthrea...%20techniq.html Or 9-12 only up (right piano)
For grand pino a handle must drive very near to direction of the string near to 6 o’clock down


Edited by Maximillyan (07/03/13 12:15 AM)
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#2111960 - 07/03/13 03:16 AM Re: French Guide "How to properly hold handle relative a plate [Re: Maximillyan]
Olek Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7901
Loc: France
And so ?

the point is that STeinway and pianos without plate bushings absolutely need that position to set the pin. To raise the wire, if you hold the lever at 15:00 on a grand piano with plate bushings this is of no importance, and even on a STeinway you can do that, the bottom part of the hole is NOT the bed of the tuning pin.

That is what you do when holding the lever left on verticals.

The pin is more twisted and more flagpole than if the lever is in direction of the wire.

ALso , if you work slowly enough at first, the pin is "floating" between the lever and the string and does not crush the wood as much as it is said .

BUT this is not a lever posture that give control to set the pin

To set the pin the only posture face the string


Edited by Olek (07/03/13 03:22 AM)
_________________________
It is critical that you call your Senators and Representatives and ask them to cosponsor S. 2587 and H.R. 5052. Getting your legislators to cosponsor these bills


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#2111962 - 07/03/13 03:22 AM Re: French Guide "How to properly hold handle relative a plate [Re: Maximillyan]
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 21673
Loc: Oakland
I believe that one can learn to turn a tuning pin without bending it best by being aware of the possibility and avoiding doing it. Holding the tuning wrench in one way or another is not automatically going to cause or avoid bending. You have to feel the pressure you are putting on the pin and make certain it is going to turn, rather than bend. It takes awareness, practice, and experience, not a specific method, as does just about everything in tuning.
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#2111963 - 07/03/13 03:27 AM Re: French Guide "How to properly hold handle relative a plate [Re: Maximillyan]
Olek Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7901
Loc: France
The hammer posture allows to perceive the bottom end of the pin more or less well, also,

In some posture, the bottom of the pin moves immediately, in another it moves late. This allow to compensate for the more or less fast rendering of the string, using the pin's / block springiness as a tool.

And change the level of stress that is installed in the upper segment

facing the strings is always straightforward


Edited by Olek (07/03/13 03:28 AM)
_________________________
It is critical that you call your Senators and Representatives and ask them to cosponsor S. 2587 and H.R. 5052. Getting your legislators to cosponsor these bills


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#2111969 - 07/03/13 03:46 AM Re: French Guide "How to properly hold handle relative a plate [Re: Olek]
Maximillyan Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/11
Posts: 1539
Loc: KZ
Originally Posted By: Olek
This allow to compensate for the more or less fast rendering of the string, using the pin's / block springiness as a tool.

I think this is so. This video demonstrates the basics of correct position of the handle to a novice tuner tried to keep it parallel to the direction of the plate. The fact that the variants are possible movement of the handle quickly or slowly. Up or down. Even holding by the friction tight of a pinblock. This choice will make their own techniques for each technician piano
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#2111973 - 07/03/13 03:52 AM Re: French Guide "How to properly hold handle relative a plate [Re: BDB]
Maximillyan Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/11
Posts: 1539
Loc: KZ
Originally Posted By: BDB
Holding the tuning wrench in one way or another is not automatically going to cause or avoid bending.

But knowing some things like this that to will completely eliminate the flexure of a pin
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#2112038 - 07/03/13 07:42 AM Re: French Guide "How to properly hold handle relative a plate [Re: Maximillyan]
Olek Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7901
Loc: France
I don't believe we can eliminate, but apprehend it manage it, reduce it...
_________________________
It is critical that you call your Senators and Representatives and ask them to cosponsor S. 2587 and H.R. 5052. Getting your legislators to cosponsor these bills


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#2112069 - 07/03/13 09:27 AM Re: French Guide "How to properly hold handle relative a plate [Re: Olek]
Maximillyan Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/11
Posts: 1539
Loc: KZ
Originally Posted By: Olek
I don't believe we can eliminate, but apprehend it manage it, reduce it...

Je vois heureux que les mots vôtre est une vérité, Isaac
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http://www.donguluk.ucoz.ru/

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