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#2113052 - 07/05/13 12:48 AM Re: Steinway Bought Out and Going Private [Re: carey]
laguna_greg Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/02/13
Posts: 1166
Loc: guess where in CA and WA
Originally Posted By: carey


And apparently the factual errors can be attributed to Anthony Gilroy, Steinway's Director of Marketing and Communication. crazy



Imagine that! Thank for proving my point for me, because people on the street actually believe those pronouncements.
_________________________
Laguna Greg

1919 Mason & Hamlin AA
1931 Bechstein C
http://www.triangleassociates-us.com/about_us (my day job)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorothy_Taubman (a recent article I wrote about one of my teachers)

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#2113056 - 07/05/13 01:21 AM Re: Steinway Bought Out and Going Private [Re: laguna_greg]
Del Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/04/03
Posts: 5070
Loc: Olympia, Washington
Originally Posted By: laguna_greg
I long to be called an evil genius...

OK. You're an Evil Genius!

ddf
_________________________
Delwin D Fandrich
Piano Research, Design & Manufacturing Consultant
ddfandrich@gmail.com
(To contact me privately please use this e-mail address.)

Stupidity is a rare condition, ignorance is a common choice. --Anon

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#2113059 - 07/05/13 01:28 AM Re: Steinway Bought Out and Going Private [Re: carey]
Del Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/04/03
Posts: 5070
Loc: Olympia, Washington
Originally Posted By: carey
... And apparently the factual errors can be attributed to Anthony Gilroy, Steinway's Director of Marketing and Communication. crazy

Many years back I read a sci-fi book that had something to do with time travel. On his way through time the protagonist would stop off in different eras to do his thing. One of the things that was a constant puzzle to him was why, in the eras that permitted such things as advertising, the populace would actually believe the things a company (or a politician) would say about themselves. That is still a good question.

ddf

PS. There is an interesting little piece on NPR's Morning Edition that is related, at least obliquely, to this issue. Go to:
http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2013/07/0...ft=1&f=1001


Edited by Del (07/05/13 01:33 AM)
_________________________
Delwin D Fandrich
Piano Research, Design & Manufacturing Consultant
ddfandrich@gmail.com
(To contact me privately please use this e-mail address.)

Stupidity is a rare condition, ignorance is a common choice. --Anon

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#2113067 - 07/05/13 02:28 AM Re: Steinway Bought Out and Going Private [Re: Numerian]
phacke Offline

Gold Supporter until November 11 2014


Registered: 10/18/12
Posts: 398
Loc: CO, USA
Originally Posted By: Numerian
Kohlberg is not buying Steinway for $438 million. They are valuing Steinway at $438 million, if everyone tenders their shares at $35/share. How much of its own and its investors money Kohlberg is putting into Steinway isn't clear, but in deals of this nature, it could be $100 million or less. ...

...

One other strange thing about this deal is, why now? If Steinway is so attractive as a private equity buyout, it would have been vastly more attractive three years ago when the stock was 70% cheaper. It's very easy to see why Steinway management climbed aboard this deal so fast. After watching their stock recover 70% in the market, for someone to come along and pay a 15% premium on top of that is almost too good to be true.


Hello M. Numerian,

Interesting post.

Regarding your first paragraph, in this buy-out, are you implying that shareholders have the option of holding on to their shares? This is not a likely scenario, but your statement seems to imply it. Another poster asked as well, educate us about what you mean here. I for one would be interested in more detail of the mechanics of the buyout you describe in your first paragraph.

Regarding your last paragraph
you wrote>One other strange thing about this deal is, why now?

This is easy. They didn't have money 3 years ago. For example, GE capital, a loan provider in this case, Warren Buffett had to bail GE out 4-5 years ago or so.
I was wondering about the thin atmosphere (oxygen tanks required), Annapurna-like valuations of LVB, bucking the market trend as of late. In hindsight, it is obvious. LVB was looking for suiters and the price reflected that fact -- insiders in the know drove the valuations up. Seen valuations go up like this before in analogous scenarios.

Best regards -


Edited by phacke (07/05/13 02:59 AM)
_________________________
phacke

Steinway YM (1933)
...Working on:
J. S. Bach, Sonata No. 1 in B minor (BWV 1014) duet with violin

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#2113111 - 07/05/13 06:19 AM Re: Steinway Bought Out and Going Private [Re: Steve Cohen]
Numerian Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 1071
Hello phacke,

Yes, shareholders always have the option of holding on to their shares rather than tendering them to any proposed buyer of the company. You would do this if you thought a bidding war was going to develop and a second or even third buyer was going to pay more for your shares. This often happens if the first buyer is unwelcome and management has recommended rejecting their offer.

The buyers only have to get enough shares to gain legal control of the company and install their own board of directors. Often this is 50% plus one share, but some companies install "poison pills" into their by-laws that require a super majority for control. In lots of cases the company has often issued B shares to the public, and reserves A shares for a select few who are the only ones who get to vote at Annual Meetings for the board, etc. The A shares being privately held by individuals rather than mutual companies make it almost impossible for someone else to take over the company.

The Steinway situation is complicated because there is already a substantial minority shareholder who owns 30% to 40% of the shares. You can be assured Kohlberg talked to this party long before making a public offer, and has a private commitment to buy their shares. This is therefore virtually a done deal unless Kohlberg has no such understanding and the minority partner wants to bid for full control. Right now investors are waiting to hear from this company but once it is clear they support the deal, your only response can be to sell your shares to Kohlberg unless you want to keep a worthless piece of paper.

On the second point, it is true that three years ago these deals were much harder to do. They become more attractive when stock markets are rising and investors see even more rises ahead of them. Also, back then bank financing was very hard to get since credit standards were much tighter. Kohlberg could have done this deal but it would have taken a lot more of their own money. As it is, they just completed a new fund raising campaign among their investors, so now they have the cash for the down payment (some portion of the $438 million, maybe as low as $50 million), and they have the debt for the rest. Still, they are known for avoiding too much debt, so three years ago they could have gotten the company for 70% less. I wonder if they are kicking themselves because of that. You are right that LVB was shopping the company and that helped drive the price up, but Kohlberg would have been a likely buyer three years ago.

One possible answer might be that attractive leveraged buyout deals are hard to come by. An extraordinary number of one-time public companies in America are now owned by these private equity firms (Kohlberg, KKR, Bain Capital, Goldman Sachs equity fund, Carlyle, etc.). Companies are being traded like baseball cards these days, and the fund owners don't really have a long term interest in the companies, their products, or their communities. Congress has begun to question these deals and a lot of the best prospects have been snapped up already. Kohlberg has to put its money to use or return it to its investors, so they may have felt pressured internally to do something. This might have been an easier decision if the minority shareholder bought into the deal already, which makes it harder for the employees (some of whom I think are unionized) to make a stink like the Hostess Bakeries union did. These private equity companies hate publicity good or bad and prefer to work in the shadows, so ideally for Kohlberg the Steinway deal will get done quickly and disappear from the press soon.


Edited by Numerian (07/05/13 06:32 AM)

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#2113178 - 07/05/13 10:02 AM Re: Steinway Bought Out and Going Private [Re: Del]
laguna_greg Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/02/13
Posts: 1166
Loc: guess where in CA and WA
Originally Posted By: Del
Originally Posted By: laguna_greg
I long to be called an evil genius...

OK. You're an Evil Genius!

ddf


Thanks Del! I feel SO much better about myself!
_________________________
Laguna Greg

1919 Mason & Hamlin AA
1931 Bechstein C
http://www.triangleassociates-us.com/about_us (my day job)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorothy_Taubman (a recent article I wrote about one of my teachers)

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#2113187 - 07/05/13 10:24 AM Re: Steinway Bought Out and Going Private [Re: Numerian]
laguna_greg Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/02/13
Posts: 1166
Loc: guess where in CA and WA
Hi Numerian,

"These private equity companies hate publicity good or bad and prefer to work in the shadows, so ideally for Kohlberg the Steinway deal will get done quickly and disappear from the press soon."

Of course, the Steinway sale is a blip in the firmament of newsworthy items across the globe this week. Nobody's really looking at this, or caring about the outcome. It all appears above-board, perfectly legitimate and business-as-usual.

And Kohlberg's PR campaign has been carefully orchestrated to make sure it looks that way. Like all such deals, it would not do for the public to react the way I have been, for example, on the early parts of this thread. They've spent good money to avoid this very thing, and they have endless experience shaping public opinion.
_________________________
Laguna Greg

1919 Mason & Hamlin AA
1931 Bechstein C
http://www.triangleassociates-us.com/about_us (my day job)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorothy_Taubman (a recent article I wrote about one of my teachers)

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#2113194 - 07/05/13 10:52 AM Re: Steinway Bought Out and Going Private [Re: Steve Cohen]
Withindale Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/09/11
Posts: 1808
Loc: Suffolk, England
Everybody

Would you advise the new Steinway management to retain the band instruments, or divest?
_________________________
Ian Russell
Schiedmayer & Soehne, 1925 Model 14, 55" upright
Ibach, 1922 49" upright (project piano)

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#2113205 - 07/05/13 11:24 AM Re: Steinway Bought Out and Going Private [Re: Withindale]
ClsscLib Offline

Platinum Supporter until Jan 02 2013


Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 1605
Loc: Northern VA, U.S.
Originally Posted By: Withindale
Everybody

Would you advise the new Steinway management to retain the band instruments, or divest?


Without seeing the financials, it's impossible to say.

That aside, the other question is whether the non-piano business lines contribute any profitable synergy to the overall operation. I have my doubts, but I certainly could be wrong about that.
_________________________


"People may say I can't sing, but no one can ever say I didn't sing."

-- Florence Foster Jenkins

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#2113206 - 07/05/13 11:25 AM Re: Steinway Bought Out and Going Private [Re: Withindale]
laguna_greg Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/02/13
Posts: 1166
Loc: guess where in CA and WA
Hi With,

It depends on just how much cash flow the instrument division brings to the balance sheet. If it's a lot, they probably can't afford to get rid of it even if they want to.

I don't know anything specific about the company finances, but I imagine that band instruments actually bring in more than pianos, and with more consistency. But I'm just guessing.
_________________________
Laguna Greg

1919 Mason & Hamlin AA
1931 Bechstein C
http://www.triangleassociates-us.com/about_us (my day job)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorothy_Taubman (a recent article I wrote about one of my teachers)

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#2113247 - 07/05/13 01:02 PM Re: Steinway Bought Out and Going Private [Re: ClsscLib]
Withindale Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/09/11
Posts: 1808
Loc: Suffolk, England
Originally Posted By: ClsscLib
Originally Posted By: Withindale
Would you advise the new Steinway management to retain the band instruments, or divest?
... the other question is whether the non-piano business lines contribute any profitable synergy to the overall operation. I have my doubts, but I certainly could be wrong about that.

Precisely, why I asked.

The 2012 report says:
Band: sales $137m gross profit $35m
Piano: sales $217m gross profit $80m
S&S grand pianos shipped: 2,001
Overall operating expenses: $86m
Net income: $13.5m

The Kohlberg model is install new management to improve processes and cut costs, then increase sales.

I bet they are looking at those $86m operating expenses.


Edited by Withindale (07/05/13 01:10 PM)
Edit Reason: grand piano shipments
_________________________
Ian Russell
Schiedmayer & Soehne, 1925 Model 14, 55" upright
Ibach, 1922 49" upright (project piano)

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#2113325 - 07/05/13 04:29 PM Re: Steinway Bought Out and Going Private [Re: Withindale]
laguna_greg Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/02/13
Posts: 1166
Loc: guess where in CA and WA
I said it before, this cannot end well.
_________________________
Laguna Greg

1919 Mason & Hamlin AA
1931 Bechstein C
http://www.triangleassociates-us.com/about_us (my day job)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorothy_Taubman (a recent article I wrote about one of my teachers)

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#2113334 - 07/05/13 04:52 PM Re: Steinway Bought Out and Going Private [Re: Steve Cohen]
Rank Piano Amateur Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/11/07
Posts: 1735
Didn't the financial picture change a whole lot recently with the sale of Steinway Hall? It must have turned the company into a cash rich one. It is my uneducated belief that purchasers of corporate assets like companies with a lot of cash on hand.

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#2113339 - 07/05/13 05:03 PM Re: Steinway Bought Out and Going Private [Re: Withindale]
JimF Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/08/09
Posts: 1610
Loc: south florida
Originally Posted By: Withindale
Everybody

Would you advise the new Steinway management to retain the band instruments, or divest?


I don't know the specific answer to your question, but I did spend some time going through Steinway's SEC filings for last year, especially the balance sheet and all the footnotes. I was seaching for pockets of unrealized value or anything else that the Sharks would have looked for.

A few items.

1.As was noted, Steinway Hall property was sold recently. This operation had been a drag on profits (going from memory, but minus $4-5 mil/yr. sticks in my head). Its sale immediately removes that drag, plus my recollection is they used the proceeds to pay down just about all of their existing debt.

2. Annual operating profit has been running in the range of $30 mil per year. Without the above losses that will improve. It looks to me like this level of ongoing profitability could easily support $300+ mil of debt at current junk rates.

3. There are some interesting footnotes related to the band instrument division. Most interesting was that they have turned some kind of corner in China and now expect that operation to a)continue its profitability and b) be self-funding for growth. Therefore they are repatriating $15 mil of previously accumulated chinese profit that they no longer think will be needed to fund operations or growth initiatives. My guess is things are going very well for them in China. It would not surprise me if Kolhberg's plan has China at its center, as that's a potential hotbutton that could be used to exite the next buyer.

There may be an angle with previously written down unused tax-loss carry forwards that could be brought back onto the balance sheet with a new owning entity (either Kohlberg or the next buyer). I didn't go back to look at past k-1's for additional detail since I don't really feel competent to analyse this particular issue.

I have no idea what the Kolhberg people really have in mind, so this is all speculative.
_________________________
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Fountain in the Rain, W.Gillock
Mozart Sonata K545

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#2113356 - 07/05/13 05:30 PM Re: Steinway Bought Out and Going Private [Re: ClsscLib]
R_B Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/03/09
Posts: 428
Originally Posted By: ClsscLib
Originally Posted By: R_B


...Materials + value add + profit = price....



Not really. Price equals what the buyer is willing to pay to a seller willing to sell.

Period.


I probably should have written "ASKING price" or "LIST price".

No matter, those are the basic variables and if profit is insufficient then the cost structure gets messed with (-:

I remember a presentation from a along time ago when we were setting up for a new product introduction.
A manufacturing engineer put this little equation up on the overhead slide projector;
ORDERS - PRODUCTION = BACK-LOG
Which pleased us all, we WANTED back-log.

His next slide was;
PRODUCTION - ORDERS = SCRAP

His POINT was that he wasn't going to invest in over capacity.
We appreciated that excess capacity leads to "fire sales", heavy discounting and basically a devaluation of the product.

The NEXT generation of product suffers a hangover from all that, i.e. sales are withheld in anticipation of the discounting, but you can't afford to do that every time, or even a second time, so don't get into it a first time.

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#2113431 - 07/05/13 08:32 PM Re: Steinway Bought Out and Going Private [Re: Steve Cohen]
AJB Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/01/05
Posts: 3655
Loc: Surrey, England
I am very much inclined to agree with Numerian's analysis of the likely sale economics.

Steinway will be flipped before long.

My wider perspective is "why does anyone care?" The future of Steinway matters only to future buyers (and some dealers). Steinway is unlikely to disappear and quality will improve, remain the same or worsen. For current owners this is a "so what" point and for future owners there are plenty of other choices.

The ownership of a company matters little to consumers. The company is also trivial in US economic terms. In Europe the brand is regarded as German and it would not surprise me to see the European entity being spun off.
_________________________
S&S Hamburg D, Yamaha CLP 280


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#2113440 - 07/05/13 09:02 PM Re: Steinway Bought Out and Going Private [Re: AJB]
Ed McMorrow, RPT Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/09/12
Posts: 1488
Loc: Seattle, WA USA
AJB,
Interesting the "Teutonic" chauvinism. Steinway would probably never have come into being if they didn't start the modern grand design in the USA. The Continental markets were still structured at the city state level in the mid 1800's. The economy of scale was not available there to support the capital investments needed to reduce per unit costs and improve quality. At that point in time the USA was the fastest growing and largest unified market in the world.

I have always found the use of debt to purchase business's problematic. It seems contrary to true market valuation that credit is granted to the entity being sold for the benefit of the purchaser. Couple this with the money supply being debt linked and you have a recipe for asset bubbles.

I have long thought why don't we expand the money supply in proportion to profits. And this would be direct profits-not profits from leveraged asset trading.

But what do I know-I just fix pianos!
_________________________
In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible

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#2113463 - 07/05/13 10:31 PM Re: Steinway Bought Out and Going Private [Re: Ed McMorrow, RPT]
ClsscLib Offline

Platinum Supporter until Jan 02 2013


Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 1605
Loc: Northern VA, U.S.
Originally Posted By: Ed McMorrow, RPT
AJB,

...I have always found the use of debt to purchase business's problematic. It seems contrary to true market valuation that credit is granted to the entity being sold for the benefit of the purchaser.



Have you ever gotten a mortgage to buy a home? That's a grant of credit against the collateral of the item being sold (the home) for the benefit of the purchaser (you).
_________________________


"People may say I can't sing, but no one can ever say I didn't sing."

-- Florence Foster Jenkins

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#2113502 - 07/06/13 12:44 AM Re: Steinway Bought Out and Going Private [Re: Steve Cohen]
phacke Offline

Gold Supporter until November 11 2014


Registered: 10/18/12
Posts: 398
Loc: CO, USA
M. Numerian, Thanks for your discussion and explanations.

M. JimF, Thanks for your 'glass half full' perspective. Just because 'I don't see the good' (per above) does not mean I think it must turn out very bad. Instead of the 58th St. Steinway Hall they just sold, they can just rent a U-haul filled with a few candidate pianos, park it in the lot of Lincoln Center or in front of Carnegie Hall and have the pianists select in the back of the truck. Just kidding, they may rent some nice space.

Best regards-
_________________________
phacke

Steinway YM (1933)
...Working on:
J. S. Bach, Sonata No. 1 in B minor (BWV 1014) duet with violin

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#2113510 - 07/06/13 01:09 AM Re: Steinway Bought Out and Going Private [Re: Steve Cohen]
Radio.Octave Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/17/08
Posts: 429
Unfortunately, there are only so many places (colleges, concert halls) that can afford Steinway's exorbitant prices. In today's economy, how many people can really afford near six-figure pianos? Steinways are great, but there are many other manufacturers that provide much more "bang for your buck." Those are the companies that will survive, instead of being sold off to the highest bidder. RIP, Steinway & Sons.


Edited by Radio.Octave (07/06/13 01:10 AM)
_________________________
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#2113514 - 07/06/13 01:18 AM Re: Steinway Bought Out and Going Private [Re: AJB]
phacke Offline

Gold Supporter until November 11 2014


Registered: 10/18/12
Posts: 398
Loc: CO, USA
Originally Posted By: AJB
I am very much inclined to agree with Numerian's analysis of the likely sale economics.

Steinway will be flipped before long.

My wider perspective is "why does anyone care?" The future of Steinway matters only to future buyers (and some dealers). Steinway is unlikely to disappear and quality will improve, remain the same or worsen. For current owners this is a "so what" point and for future owners there are plenty of other choices.

The ownership of a company matters little to consumers. The company is also trivial in US economic terms. In Europe the brand is regarded as German and it would not surprise me to see the European entity being spun off.


Hello AJB -
One perspective (of several I can think of) is that the quality getting worst means the brand not commanding the same respect, which means the market value of the piano you (AJB, an S&S) own eventually going down. There are plenty of arguably equally great piano's from the '20s here that are worth maintaining and restoring, but are not, because the value of the brand has not been sustained.

Best regards -
_________________________
phacke

Steinway YM (1933)
...Working on:
J. S. Bach, Sonata No. 1 in B minor (BWV 1014) duet with violin

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#2113520 - 07/06/13 01:32 AM Re: Steinway Bought Out and Going Private [Re: ClsscLib]
Ed McMorrow, RPT Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/09/12
Posts: 1488
Loc: Seattle, WA USA
People have to live somewhere, that cost's money, either servicing debt or paying rent. So there is a difference between investing and spending. No one has to invest.

Purchasing a business by using the credit worthiness of the purchased entity, (leveraged buyout), to then grant dividends to the new owners is not an efficient use of capital. The creation of great new wealth has always been new businesses supplanting old ones.

Expanding the money supply in response to debt instead of profits rewards leveraging of existing assets. This disrupts equity valuation based on profits and prospects for future increases in them. This undermines rational equity values being created by a stock market. Now we have over half the equity trading being executed by robots-it still takes a human to write the trading algorithms-but that cannot be done at anything like the speed of robot trading.
_________________________
In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible

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#2113618 - 07/06/13 07:53 AM Re: Steinway Bought Out and Going Private [Re: Steve Cohen]
Numerian Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 1071
That's an excellent and concise critique of today's capital markets. Old timers in the leveraged buyout business have gone public with their criticism of the way business is being conducted these days. The investors are not necessarily more or less greedy than in the past, but they are greedy way too early. People don't wait three to five years for their large payout. There are two many cases where six months into the deal the new owner arranges for more debt to be taken on, and then simultaneously declares for themselves a huge dividend payment equal to the amount of the debt proceeds. This is why in 2007 - 2008 there were so many private equity guys "making" $500 million a year from their business. Nobody makes that sort of money in salary, wages, or even as an investor given today's low interest rates and mediocre performance on most investments. But you can make that sort of money through equity extraction - raiding a company's pension plan, or playing games by forcing the company to borrow so you can declare yourself a dividend. As you say, this isn't capitalism because it is certainly not an efficient use of capital.

I suspect Jerome Kohlberg is from the old school and might agree with this criticism. Also, the 57th street property was a classic example of an underutilized asset in the leveraged buyout business. They would have looked at Steinway's insistence on keeping that property as a showroom as nothing but sentimentality, so one key element of a buyout is to force management to get over their sentimentality, dump the showroom, and monetize the asset. In LBO speak, that would be a legitimate cause for then declaring a gigantic dividend for the new owners. A critic could not exactly say this is an efficient use of capital; after all, a shiny new 60 story mixed use condo has now been built in Midtown on prime property. The way in which it is sometimes done, in which disinterested parties force a takeover of the company and pocket the profits from the deal, could at least be described as buccaneer capitalism. In this case, existing management at Steinway seemed to decide either they monetize the property and pocket the profits, or some third party was going to take over the company and take the profit for themselves. Selling Steinway Hall became inevitable once that was set in motion.

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#2113656 - 07/06/13 09:19 AM Re: Steinway Bought Out and Going Private [Re: Radio.Octave]
Steve Cohen Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 10346
Loc: Maryland/DC/No. VA
Originally Posted By: Radio.Octave
Unfortunately, there are only so many places (colleges, concert halls) that can afford Steinway's exorbitant prices. In today's economy, how many people can really afford near six-figure pianos? Steinways are great, but there are many other manufacturers that provide much more "bang for your buck." Those are the companies that will survive, instead of being sold off to the highest bidder. RIP, Steinway & Sons.


Steinway's sales in to institutions is strong, even in this challenging economy. Also, you base your conclusion on sales of Steinway & Sons pianos, leaving out Boston, Essex, and band instruments - all significant contributors to Steinway's income stream.

You ask "...how many people can really afford near six-figure pianos?" Steinway makes only about 4000 pianos per year. There is a huge pool of potential buyers.
_________________________
Piano Industry Consultant- http://www.linkedin.com/pub/steve-cohen/6/b92/b80

Consultant & Contributing Editor - Acoustic & Digital Piano Buyer

Jasons Music
Maryland/DC/No. VA
Since 1937.

www.jasonsmusic.com
My postings, unless stated otherwise, are my personal opinions, not those of my clients.

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#2113672 - 07/06/13 10:09 AM Re: Steinway Bought Out and Going Private [Re: phacke]
JimF Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/08/09
Posts: 1610
Loc: south florida
Phacke,

I was surprised you characterized my perspective as "glass half full," although I can see how it might read that way.

Truth is, I don't think being LBO'ed is good for the long term health of any business. The LOB crowd does not create value...they just syphon off everything the business has created. Since the value removed is no longer available to maintain the business or support its future growth, the endgame is either it's demise or the injection of new (replacement) capital when it is flipped to the next owners.
_________________________
Its All in the Game, arr.K.Jarrett
Fountain in the Rain, W.Gillock
Mozart Sonata K545

Estonia L190 #7284





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#2113680 - 07/06/13 10:35 AM Re: Steinway Bought Out and Going Private [Re: Steve Cohen]
Hakki Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 2100
Steinway Hall SOLD !!!

Are they talking about this hall ?
_________________________
Put in one of IMO, I think, to me, for me... or similar to all sentences I post

http://www.youtube.com/user/hakkithepianist

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#2113683 - 07/06/13 10:42 AM Re: Steinway Bought Out and Going Private [Re: Hakki]
Steve Cohen Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 10346
Loc: Maryland/DC/No. VA
Originally Posted By: Hakki
Steinway Hall SOLD !!!

Are they talking about this hall ?



That's the one.
_________________________
Piano Industry Consultant- http://www.linkedin.com/pub/steve-cohen/6/b92/b80

Consultant & Contributing Editor - Acoustic & Digital Piano Buyer

Jasons Music
Maryland/DC/No. VA
Since 1937.

www.jasonsmusic.com
My postings, unless stated otherwise, are my personal opinions, not those of my clients.

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#2113706 - 07/06/13 11:37 AM Re: Steinway Bought Out and Going Private [Re: Steve Cohen]
Hakki Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 2100
Originally Posted By: Steve Cohen
Originally Posted By: Hakki
Steinway Hall SOLD !!!

Are they talking about this hall ?



That's the one.


Shame on them, then mad
_________________________
Put in one of IMO, I think, to me, for me... or similar to all sentences I post

http://www.youtube.com/user/hakkithepianist

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#2113710 - 07/06/13 11:41 AM Re: Steinway Bought Out and Going Private [Re: Steve Cohen]
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 13976
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
Quote:
management to get over their sentimentality,


From an American point of view, this perhaps makes sense.
There are exceptions but not many [left]

From a European view, this is [almost] unthinkable.

When talking to people like Ulrich Sauter, Udo Steingraeber, the Bluethners and even relative newcomers like Paolo Fazioli and Dr.Laul, the "sentimentality" of following their own genius or a long national tradition including that of their own forefathers' is a real one.

It is exactly what motivates them from day to day to do honor and live up to the task. It's something that goes without saying.

It gives their products a certain "authenticity" that is still being appreciated by many in today's market.

It's not just another "asset" that's up for sale - never will.

I'm not an economist but at least to me this makes for a promising, reliable and more "predictable" future overall.

Having grown up in post-war Germany whose economy was 90% shattered, I've seen it work with literally 10,000's of small family owned firms specializing in smaller production, high quality type products.

So, I may be somewhat prejudiced.

Let's see how this one will play out.

Norbert


Edited by Norbert (07/06/13 11:59 AM)
_________________________
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604-951-8642

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#2113716 - 07/06/13 12:06 PM Re: Steinway Bought Out and Going Private [Re: Hakki]
ClsscLib Offline

Platinum Supporter until Jan 02 2013


Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 1605
Loc: Northern VA, U.S.
Originally Posted By: Hakki
Originally Posted By: Steve Cohen
Originally Posted By: Hakki
Steinway Hall SOLD !!!

Are they talking about this hall ?



That's the one.


Shame on them, then mad


You should have bought it yourself. Then, as the owner, you'd have been free to keep it as a piano museum or do anything else with it that you wanted.
_________________________


"People may say I can't sing, but no one can ever say I didn't sing."

-- Florence Foster Jenkins

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