Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) Pianoteq
Latest Pianoteq add-on instrument: U4 upright piano
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
PianoSupplies.com (150)
Piano Accessories Music Related Gifts Piano Tuning Equipment Piano Moving Equipment
We now offer Gift Certificates in our online store!
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Piano
Quick Links to Useful Stuff
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano Accessories
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Topic Options
#2113835 - 07/06/13 03:55 PM What is your Musical LQ (Learning Quotient) ?
JosephAC Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/23/12
Posts: 168
Loc: Melbourne Australia
I came across this blog and I find it relevant for providing excellent guidance in instilling the right thinking processes in my musical journey.

Here's the link:
http://thetalentcode.com/2013/07/01/whats-your-lq-learning-quotient/

And here are the key measures:

1. You work on your skills for an hour or more every day
2. You are focused on process, not the immediate outcomes
3. You have strong relationships with mentors/coaches, and use them as models and guidance
4. You are keenly aware of how much you do not know, and the gap between your present abilities and your longterm goals
5. You can accurately and precisely describe the skills you want to build
6. You think about improving your skills all the time
7. You approach your daily work with enthusiasm
8. You are balanced between building with repetition and seeking innovations
9. You are comfortable going outside of your comfort zone
10. You are constantly adapting and refining your learning process

Let me know what you think.

Joseph


Edited by JosephAC (07/06/13 03:59 PM)

Top
(ads P/S)

Sauter Pianos

#2113845 - 07/06/13 04:25 PM Re: What is our Music LQ (Learning Quotient) ? [Re: JosephAC]
Sand Tiger Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/25/12
Posts: 990
Loc: Southern California
My score is 37 (4 4 1 3 3 2 3 4 4 4).

Perhaps a bit above average according to the website.

It may or may not be useful for talent scouts. It might be useful to see which adults are likely to be able to get better, but it doesn't describe the level a person is already at. Also for kids, which is where many sports and entertainment scouts look, some of the self-awareness questions are near meaningless.

The stated time of an hour per day is about right for an adult beginner pianist, or some other skills, but an hour may be too much or too little for some other endeavors. Some team sports play only once a week, for three months a year. Book study or indoor workouts can only do so much good for some of those sports.

Another point is that process can be taught, if a person has the desire to learn. So even though a person may currently have bad habits and poor process, if they are open to coaching, they can learn better methods. Goals can be assigned, if a person doesn't have clear goals, and so on down the list.

So while interesting, I would guess it is more curiosity than valuable scouting tool.

/edit to add: there is also the counter-intuitive interpretation. Say someone in a competitive sport does well, but has poor methods, no goals, etc. That person may have greater potential because they are doing most things in a poor way, wasting a lot of time and energy, and yet is still competing at a high level. Take a second person using good methods that does about as well in competition. This second person is near their potential, because there isn't as much to be gained by better coaching, while the first person might improve leaps and bounds by working on their process, and setting goals. Hmmm.


Edited by Sand Tiger (07/06/13 05:08 PM)
_________________________
my piano uploads

Top
#2113868 - 07/06/13 05:46 PM Re: What is our Music LQ (Learning Quotient) ? [Re: JosephAC]
Mr Super-Hunky Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 4217
Loc: Arizona.
1. You work on your skills for an hour or more every day

Fail

2. You are focused on process, not the immediate outcomes

Fail

3. You have strong relationships with mentors/coaches, and use them as models and guidance

Fail

4. You are keenly aware of how much you do not know

Yes, pass! and the gap between your present abilities and your longterm goals Nope, failed again!


5. You can accurately and precisely describe the skills you want to build

Fail

6. You think about improving your skills all the time

Yes I DO think about it. It doesn't happen that much but I think about it.


7. You approach your daily work with enthusiasm

Yes, sort of. I don't have any "daily work" but I get very enthusiatic while playing. Sometimes downright rambunctious!


8. You are balanced between building with repetition and seeking innovations

Yes, I would say that is true.


9. You are comfortable going outside of your comfort zone

Win and fail. I DO go outside my comfort zone all the time discovering new things but the emphasis is on 'discovering' new things, not necessarily playing nice enjoyable music. During these 'discovery' periods, well, let's just say my wife borrows my headphones and the dog puts her head under the bed. [Her body is too big to fit so just the head makes it under!].


10. You are constantly adapting and refining your learning process

Yes, I would say that is true.

My final score is 5 yes and 5 fails. 5 out of 10 = 50%.

Bottom line: I still suck. lol !

Top
#2113892 - 07/06/13 06:33 PM Re: What is your Musical LQ (Learning Quotient) ? [Re: JosephAC]
keystring Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11558
Loc: Canada
When I read advice anywhere, the first thing I do is to find out about the author. In this case, did this writer pursue music, and if so, how did he do? Well actually, his article isn't about music anyway.

Thoughts:
And here are the key measures:

1. You work on your skills for an hour or more every day
You have to know how to. And if so, the length of time matters less than how you do it.

2. You are focused on process, not the immediate outcomes
That's the key to any kind of learning.

3. You have strong relationships with mentors/coaches, and use them as models and guidance
Lots of times when that was not available.

4. You are keenly aware of how much you do not know, and the gap between your present abilities and your longterm goals
You are aware that you do not know things, so you seek them out. I'm not sure about the "goals" thing. One minute we're talking about abilities, and the next we're talking about goals. Also, some people have reached "goals". Pavarotti said at the end of his life "I am still a student." But didn't he reach "goals"? Isn't the love of learning and gaining skills a perpetual thing?

5. You can accurately and precisely describe the skills you want to build
That doesn't fit with no. 3, because often the mentors and coaches will know which skills you need, and you won't. If you over-define skills, you may actually block learning the things you need.

6. You think about improving your skills all the time
Try - you concentrate on the particular skills you are working on. Thinking about them "all the time" can be counter-productive.

7. You approach your daily work with enthusiasm
I've seen a lot of people quit or come close to quitting because they think they have to be "enthusiastic" all the time, and if the "drive" or "flame" leaves them, then the thing that makes them progress is gone. No - you also go through times when you have no enthusiasm, and you work on whatever anyway. I disagree with this one.

(Again, has this writer actually personally achieved or striven toward anything of that nature?)

8. You are balanced between building with repetition and seeking innovations
Huh? You do what works and what is needed.

9. You are comfortable going outside of your comfort zone
It only makes sense. Growth means to go beyond what you can do.

10. You are constantly adapting and refining your learning process
Yes.

There are some good ideas here, but I dislike the idea of "measuring" oneself in this way.

Top
#2113893 - 07/06/13 06:35 PM Re: What is our Music LQ (Learning Quotient) ? [Re: Mr Super-Hunky]
keystring Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11558
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: Mr Super-Hunky


Bottom line: I still suck. lol !

Only at a list of things that some writer has come up with. From everything I've seen the past few years, you're a winner. Time to redo the list. laugh

Top
#2113923 - 07/06/13 07:41 PM Re: What is our Music LQ (Learning Quotient) ? [Re: JosephAC]
earlofmar Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/21/13
Posts: 1391
Loc: Australia
looks like another book that could be added to my unread collection.
_________________________
I thought I understood endurance sport; then I took up piano
XXXIV-5-XXX

Top
#2114071 - 07/07/13 04:57 AM Re: What is our Music LQ (Learning Quotient) ? [Re: JosephAC]
Bobpickle Offline

Gold Supporter until July 10  2014


Registered: 05/24/12
Posts: 1383
Loc: Cameron Park, California
Aside from 3 & 10, the rest are too open to interpretation and thus inapplicable and useless to the music student.

Top
#2114103 - 07/07/13 08:44 AM Re: What is our Music LQ (Learning Quotient) ? [Re: JosephAC]
malkin Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/18/09
Posts: 2412
Loc: *sigh* Salt Lake City
If you are comfortable outside of your comfort zone how do you know you are not still in your comfort zone?
_________________________
A good student is one who makes the teacher feel like a good teacher.

Top
#2114120 - 07/07/13 09:42 AM Re: What is our Music LQ (Learning Quotient) ? [Re: Mr Super-Hunky]
Sand Tiger Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/25/12
Posts: 990
Loc: Southern California
Originally Posted By: Mr Super-Hunky
\Bottom line: I still suck. lol !


I know you are joking, but that's a rather harsh self-assessment for a 50% score, when the author says most folks will be in the 50% range when they are honest. The glass half-full angle is that you have room to improve (if you would like to improve). There is a tonic quality to being average.

You, Mr. SH have a rare gift when it comes to music, like one musician in ten thousand, not a 50/50 deal. Sometimes the original music playing in your head, may not feel like a gift, but it is rare. You also have enough technical ability to share your gift and bring it to the world. I know more than a few more technically capable musicians that would trade off some of that skill for the kind of gift you have.

Your life journey can not be put down by some author's test. Which in any case, some seem to feel has little to do with musicians.
_________________________
my piano uploads

Top
#2114294 - 07/07/13 04:26 PM Re: What is our Music LQ (Learning Quotient) ? [Re: Sand Tiger]
Mr Super-Hunky Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 4217
Loc: Arizona.
Originally Posted By: Sand Tiger
Originally Posted By: Mr Super-Hunky
\Bottom line: I still suck. lol !


I know you are joking, but that's a rather harsh self-assessment for a 50% score, when the author says most folks will be in the 50% range when they are honest. The glass half-full angle is that you have room to improve (if you would like to improve). There is a tonic quality to being average.

Oops, I didn't read the article, I just took the test. Kind of interesting though because I was being 100% honest (even about the dog) and I ended up getting a 50.

Back in the day, if I came home with a 50 test score, I'd get the belt or wooden spoon (Dad = belt, mom = wooden spoon).


You, Mr. SH have a rare gift when it comes to music, like one musician in ten thousand, not a 50/50 deal. Sometimes the original music playing in your head, may not feel like a gift, but it is rare. You also have enough technical ability to share your gift and bring it to the world. I know more than a few more technically capable musicians that would trade off some of that skill for the kind of gift you have.

Okay, here is how it really works. I hear a song on the radio and hum along with it. Sometimes though, while I'm humming or whistling along with the tune, I hear it in a different way and kind of wished the tune went that way instead.

What I used to do is hum/whistle along with a tune but when it got to the part that I wanted the tune to go in a different direction, I just turned the radio volume down and hummed the new part instead. Then I would try and connect the tune back to the original one at a later point in the song and attempt to do it seamlessly. After doing this and tweaking it over time, I would eventually just end up with a complete new piece.

So, coming up with the new original melody is very easy and effortless. It's what I do when nobody is lookin'!

The problem that I have is transferring these melodies from my mind onto the keys. That is the hard part. I guess you could say that I have been using some sort of untrained zoo monkey method of memorizing where certain sounds come from and just building upon that over time. There is a lot of trial and error just finding the sounds that I want to reproduce.

I can't just sit down and play a new piece by ear. [That would be cool though]. I can however figure a piece out by ear after a few incorrect stabs at it and be able to play a rough version of it later in the day.

I do this by memorizing the sounds of the piece and then finding these sounds on the keyboard. Although I have not taken any form of lessons, I find myself using predetermined rigid hand positions to locate notes that work together and then just improvising off of these notes.

The key to performing any piece is that you MUST feel it inside you as you are playing it. Just like when you give someone a sensual massage, you are sending very gentle, but very powerful energy through your fingertips.

If you can do this while you are playing a piece then you don't need to worry about any time signatures, volume levels or even the exact score if you are playing from one because what you feel inside you is the way 'you' should play it. Otherwise you will be playing it the way someone else wants you to. I'm not saying that is bad, but in that case what you are playing did not come from you but rather a set of instructions that came from someone else. Again, this is not a bad thing, just different strokes.

Your life journey can not be put down by some author's test. Which in any case, some seem to feel has little to do with musicians.


100% agreed.

Top
#2114401 - 07/07/13 11:33 PM Re: What is our Music LQ (Learning Quotient) ? [Re: JosephAC]
JosephAC Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/23/12
Posts: 168
Loc: Melbourne Australia
I am of the opinion that there is merit on this LQ. After all, learning is learning is learning, irrespective of the discipline or subject matter and a generic learning model is feasible.

I must have missed Mr Super-Hunky's previous contriutions to the forum as I am a relative newbie to the forum and a tyro. I am intrigued about all the appraisals for him. Where can I find out about his contributions so that I tap on his knowledge.

Joseph


Edited by JosephAC (07/07/13 11:35 PM)

Top
#2114445 - 07/08/13 01:02 AM Re: What is our Music LQ (Learning Quotient) ? [Re: JosephAC]
Sand Tiger Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/25/12
Posts: 990
Loc: Southern California
Originally Posted By: JosephAC
I am of the opinion that there is merit on this LQ. After all, learning is learning is learning, irrespective of the discipline or subject matter and a generic learning model is feasible.

I must have missed Mr Super-Hunky's previous contriutions to the forum as I am a relative newbie to the forum and a tyro. I am intrigued about all the appraisals for him. Where can I find out about his contributions so that I tap on his knowledge.

Joseph


Mr. SH deserves many accolades. It took a while, but I found the original "I Clap For Myself" thread. link

The short version is that Mr. SH had an accident and lost the use of his left hand. After many months of intense treatment, eventually, piano became part of his rehab. Mr. SH is the person who suggested the ABF recital, and has participated in every one. Some of his original pieces, such as the one that he dedicated to the late forum member Apple, have touched more lives and had more impact than just about any piece of music ever shared on this forum.

Okay, that takes care of that question. So JosephAC, I am a big fan of process and goals. I can see some value in some of the questions, but see little value in using the test as a tool. Some questions for you: What is your score and the breakdown? As a scout would you seek people that have with high scores or low scores on the test?

It seems to me, that people with low scores would have more room for improvement through better coaching. If used as a tool, how would you account for bias in the self assessments? As is, I see the test as mostly fluff--a person can say just about anything. How can a test giver tell if the answers are near accurate? It isn't like the NFL combine (U.S. football), where there are so many measurables such as bench press, 40-yard dash, vertical jump, as well as soft assessments such as interviews and an intelligence test.

Another point that I make repeatedly, is that there are many ways to learn. Some people are visual learners, some auditory, some are kinesthetic. In most fields, there are what are termed best methods. There are big teacher conferences, and they share their ideas and refine what is the current standard of best. That said, a specific individual may or may not respond well. The recent thread about differences in U.S. and European teaching is an minor example. There are many more, some which can be controversial.

Another question is whether the overall goal is to seek a relatively high average level for the group as a whole, vs. trying to find the next superstar, the next Olympic gold medalist, or great musician. Sometimes those two goals are not in harmony. Methods that are designed to seek and create superstars may not work well for average folks and vice-versa.

_________________________
my piano uploads

Top
#2114495 - 07/08/13 03:51 AM Re: What is our Music LQ (Learning Quotient) ? [Re: JosephAC]
Mr Super-Hunky Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 4217
Loc: Arizona.
Mr Super-Hunky is a self promoting pompous-ass blubbermouth and a liar. (So I've been told). I take offense at the liar comment however as I'm not a liar!

Trust me, I know the guy! lol.

Joseph, look at it like this.

recently I needed to adjust the valves on my lawn tractor because it was running rough. One option would be to buy a repair manual and read up on how to adjust the valves using feeler gauges. But what is a feeler gauge? now I needed to look that up.

Another option would be to call my mechanic friend and have him explain everything to me over the phone. I can only remember so much and may forget things along the way but I could try.

Another way to find out how to adjust the valves was to simply look up a Youtube video and watch somebody showing you how to do it (as well as showing you what a feeler gauge is).

So that's three different ways you can learn to do the same thing. Reading the manual, having someone explain it, or watching someone do it.

Different people learn things in different ways. This applies to learning how to play an instrument as well.

Some people are naturals and just get it. Others don't have it and will never get it. But most will try hard and get out of it what they put into it. I would fall into that category.

The absolute first thing you MUST do is identify how you learn things best and pursue your musical journey in that way. That means if you are a structured, analytical type (engineer) then method books or formal instruction would probably be a good way to go.

If you are more a creative, free spirit type (artist), then a method that encourages you to improvise and experiment (lead sheets, fake books) may be best. You really want to get the compatibility thing right as it will be SOOO much easier to learn if you do.

My 'method' has been described on this forum many times. You could call it the 'idiot' method because it is based on absolutely nothing. Well that's not exactly true. My 'method' is based on the melodies I hear in my head. I don't do anything to get them, I just sit around being me and they pop into my mind. Kinda cool huh?, like getting something for free!

Unfortunately, that's where the party stops because now I have to sit down and somehow pound out these melodies.


At first, things sound horrible as expected with lots-O-mistakes. After a while, the mistakes get fixed and it starts to sound a bit better. With further practice and repetition, further enhancements and fine tuning takes place. That's it. That is the entire method! Kind of a letdown huh?

So here is the bottom line. After playing eight years now, here is what I learned.

1.) You really DO get out of something what you put into it. Learning something via a method that is compatible with you just makes the process a lot more efficient not to mention a lot more enjoyable.

2.) Don't worry about what song/piece to play because that has very little to do with it. 'HOW' you play the piece will make all the difference in the world.

When you play/perform music you are actually transmitting information. You are the transmitter. How this musical information is received is entirely dependent on how you transmitted it. A beautiful piece will sound like crap if you transmit it poorly. But a mediocre piece can sound incredible if it is performed with expressive emotional input from the performer.

Just pick a piece, any piece that appeals to you and is within your abilities and then simply learn it. Over time with practice and repetition you will start to fine tune it. To make the piece stand out and be well received you must immerse yourself physically and emotionally into the way you perform it. This way the emotional input you inject into the piece will come through and be received by the listener.

That's pretty much it.

Top
#2114502 - 07/08/13 04:29 AM Re: What is our Music LQ (Learning Quotient) ? [Re: JosephAC]
keystring Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11558
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: JosephAC
I am of the opinion that there is merit on this LQ. After all, learning is learning is learning, irrespective of the discipline or subject matter and a generic learning model is feasible.

What do you base yourself on, when you think it has merit? The writer has no experience in the field he is writing about. Anyone can write a book, and if he is a journalist, the chance of getting it published is higher.

The point that concerns me a lot is "enthusiasm". I have already explained why.

Top
#2114959 - 07/09/13 12:37 AM Re: What is our Music LQ (Learning Quotient) ? [Re: Mr Super-Hunky]
JosephAC Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/23/12
Posts: 168
Loc: Melbourne Australia
At this stage I am only answering Mr Super-Hunky and I will get into answering the equally important other responses later on.
Mr Super-Hunky, you are definitely a special person and I see a lot of wisdom in your thinking. Thanks for summarising your 'method'. Actually your responses provided me some insight about my learning style. It seems that formal instruction and method books are the most suitable for I am a structured and analytical person.

Does this mean that I should not waste my time getting into improvising and experimenting?

Almost 2 years ago, at the age of 48, after few months of looking for something new to learn and do, I opted for music. At that time it was the challenge to learn something new for an period of one year, coupled with the fact that already we have accoustic piano in the house that the kids practice on. And for the first time, I learnt about the middle C. I was absolutely clueless about music playing. Naturally, I was gravitated toward structured formal instruction and method books. I am still a tyro after 2 years but in recent months I started to connect to the piano as I play some of the easy pieces with emotion. The longer pieces are mediocre at best and I am more concerned whether my technique is right than immersing emotionally.

What started as an experiment to learn something new for a year is turning out to be a long term endeavour. Needless to say, I am learning a lot about myself as music journey continues.

While I am looking forward for your answer to the question, I am of the opinion that anyone can learn to improvise. Actually, we improvise all the time. When we speak and express our thoughts, we improvise. We do not check with the manual what we should be saying. Music is just another (primitive ?/ sonic ) language and we should be able to improvise the way we can improvise after learning a foreign language (say German or French Or Spanish).

In summary, experimentation and improvisation is not limited to the artist with creative genetic. What is creativity anyway? We are all creative to some extent.


Edited by JosephAC (07/09/13 12:41 AM)

Top
#2114978 - 07/09/13 02:02 AM Re: What is our Music LQ (Learning Quotient) ? [Re: JosephAC]
Bobpickle Offline

Gold Supporter until July 10  2014


Registered: 05/24/12
Posts: 1383
Loc: Cameron Park, California
Originally Posted By: JosephAC
It seems that formal instruction and method books are the most suitable for I am a structured and analytical person.

Does this mean that I should not waste my time getting into improvising and experimenting?


My personal list of the 3 most important skills to every pianist are:
  • The ability to sight-read competently (plays a strong role in the ability to learn and understand new music swiftly). I'll also add to this category a thorough understanding of music theory as it's invaluable to understanding music as patterns and not just random black notes (this translates some to better sight-reading, too).
  • The ability to learn and memorize repertoire (with or without the music, as its preferential; don't use it as an excuse to not learn to memorize without music, though) for performance.
  • The ability to improvise in a style(s) of your choosing, with or without an audience present.

They're in no particular order as everybody could rank their subjective importance differently.

And you're right that anyone can learn to improvise; a good teacher's assistance with the subject is also great.

Top
#2115258 - 07/09/13 05:16 PM Re: What is our Music LQ (Learning Quotient) ? [Re: JosephAC]
Mr Super-Hunky Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 4217
Loc: Arizona.
Originally Posted By: JosephAC
At this stage I am only answering Mr Super-Hunky and I will get into answering the equally important other responses later on.


Mr Super-Hunky, you are definitely a special person and I see a lot of wisdom in your thinking.

Thanks Joseph. I function really well in first gear. Sometimes I stretch into second but I don't have 3rd. 3rd gear is a complicated gear and I've noticed that the people who function well in 3rd sometimes struggle in first (the common sense gear). Just an observation. If things can get worked out and clarified in first gear then shifting into a higher gear (for me) will just complicate things that didn't need to get more complicated.



Does this mean that I should not waste my time getting into improvising and experimenting?

Oh my Gawd no. Actually, just the opposite. You see if you really are the 'structured/analytical' type then following a structured program will be right up your alley. The problem is that with 'structured' programs, unique and creative processes are NOT emphasized because a structured format is. That is great AND compatible for the structured person but remember that nowhere is creativity being emphasized or even addressed for that matter.

For this reason, I would highly suggest you follow a structured format (Alfreds method books etc) but also dedicate some time every practice session to just noodling and experimenting with your keyboard and the sounds it can produce.

I promise that after doing this for a while you will get much better at it to the point that you will be playing a 'structured' tune and then just naturally want to tweak the piece a bit hear and there because you will start to hear 'alternative' ways to play certain musical passages. Ways that actually may appeal to you more.

It is very possible to take an existing tune and rework it to make it a completely new tune while still keeping the original one recognizable. I'm not sure why, but I absolutely LOVE doing this.

Almost 2 years ago, at the age of 48, after few months of looking for something new to learn and do, I opted for music. I am more concerned whether my technique is right than immersing emotionally.

Joseph I am very glad you said this. I have seen 5 year olds emulating the pro NBA players moves on the kiddie basketball court doing spins, reverse layups and all kinds of fancy passes even though they have absolutely no idea what they are doing. It is SO incredibly important to have a compatible foundation to work from.

Even though I am factually a 'hack' with no formal training in anything, I would suggest to everyone that they learn how to read music proficiently, at least at a basic level. Even if you never read music and improvise everything. You need to have a good working foundation from which to start. Improvising is not a basic foundation from which to start from, but it is an incredible ability to have that hooks up to the basic foundation of reading music very very well.

If your improvising skills get good enough then you can play a recognizable tune that can sound incredibly full and rich with only sightreading very basic notes using lead sheets/ fakebook. They sort of combine both by using fairly easy and simple score as a musical 'guide', and then requiring that you the performer fill in a lot of the missing blanks with your own improvised sections. This is a more advanced skill but one to certainly look forward to in the future.


What started as an experiment to learn something new for a year is turning out to be a long term endeavor. Needless to say, I am learning a lot about myself as music journey continues.

Drinking and driving don't mix. Booze and boating don't mix. Learning to play piano and instant gratification don't mix. You absolutely get out of it what you put into it. This means that if you practice a lot with concentrated efforts then you will play/sound like you practice a lot with concentrated effort. If you practice for 10 minutes a couple times a week then you will perform and sound like you practice for 10 minutes a couple times a week. [1st gear logic I know but damn it's accurate!]

While I am looking forward for your answer to the question, I am of the opinion that anyone can learn to improvise. Actually, we improvise all the time. When we speak and express our thoughts, we improvise. We do not check with the manual what we should be saying. Music is just another (primitive ?/ sonic ) language and we should be able to improvise the way we can improvise after learning a foreign language (say German or French Or Spanish).

Yes you are right. My only point to stress....DOUBLE-STRESS is to learn in the way that naturally fits you. [just like the example I gave in learning how to adjust my lawn tractor valves]. If I were forced to buy a boring, no picture technical manual to learn how to do the job I probably would not have done it. Reading thick, boring, no picture technical manuals that spend the first 30 pages telling you how not to cut your arms off is like Kryptonite to me. Instead, I watched a visual Youtube video and within no time at all had the job done correctly.

In summary, experimentation and improvisation is not limited to the artist with creative genetic. What is creativity anyway? We are all creative to some extent.


You are right, but remember, some people have lots of common sense and some have none. This could be said about creativity as well. To get this right, just spend a little more time at the things you are not so good at. Save what you are really good at for parties and picking up chicks! lol

Top
#2115461 - 07/10/13 01:13 AM Re: What is our Music LQ (Learning Quotient) ? [Re: Mr Super-Hunky]
JosephAC Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/23/12
Posts: 168
Loc: Melbourne Australia
Originally Posted By: Mr Super-Hunky
Originally Posted By: JosephAC
At this stage I am only answering Mr Super-Hunky and I will get into answering the equally important other responses later on.
Mr Super-Hunky, you are definitely a special person and I see a lot of wisdom in your thinking.

Originally Posted By: Mr Super-Hunky
Thanks Joseph. I function really well in first gear. Sometimes I stretch into second but I don't have 3rd. 3rd gear is a complicated gear and I've noticed that the people who function well in 3rd sometimes struggle in first (the common sense gear). Just an observation. If things can get worked out and clarified in first gear then shifting into a higher gear (for me) will just complicate things that didn't need to get more complicated.


I like this gear analogy. It is also called back to basics. Simplicity Simplicity Simplicity.

Originally Posted By: JosephAC
Does this mean that I should not waste my time getting into improvising and experimenting?


Originally Posted By: Mr Super-Hunky
Oh my Gawd no. Actually, just the opposite. You see if you really are the 'structured/analytical' type then following a structured program will be right up your alley. The problem is that with 'structured' programs, unique and creative processes are NOT emphasized because a structured format is. That is great AND compatible for the structured person but remember that nowhere is creativity being emphasized or even addressed for that matter.
For this reason, I would highly suggest you follow a structured format (Alfreds method books etc) but also dedicate some time every practice session to just noodling and experimenting with your keyboard and the sounds it can produce.
I promise that after doing this for a while you will get much better at it to the point that you will be playing a 'structured' tune and then just naturally want to tweak the piece a bit hear and there because you will start to hear 'alternative' ways to play certain musical passages. Ways that actually may appeal to you more.
It is very possible to take an existing tune and rework it to make it a completely new tune while still keeping the original one recognizable. I'm not sure why, but I absolutely LOVE doing this.


Excellent insight and wise words. I will definitely incorporate ‘noodling and experimenting’ into my learning and routine. Todate, I have been casually trying to figure out basic tone-production mechanism. When I mess around on these occasions, I usually feel guilty thereafter that I squandered my time. As they say, your outcome result from 20% of what you do. You seem to indicate that this ‘noodling and experimenting’ time form a major part of the 20%.

Originally Posted By: JosephAC
Almost 2 years ago, at the age of 48, after few months of looking for something new to learn and do, I opted for music. I am more concerned whether my technique is right than immersing emotionally. [/B]
[quote=Mr Super-Hunky]Joseph I am very glad you said this. I have seen 5 year olds emulating the pro NBA players moves on the kiddie basketball court doing spins, reverse layups and all kinds of fancy passes even though they have absolutely no idea what they are doing. It is SO incredibly important to have a compatible foundation to work from.

Even though I am factually a 'hack' with no formal training in anything, I would suggest to everyone that they learn how to read music proficiently, at least at a basic level. Even if you never read music and improvise everything. You need to have a good working foundation from which to start. Improvising is not a basic foundation from which to start from, but it is an incredible ability to have that hooks up to the basic foundation of reading music very very well.

If your improvising skills get good enough then you can play a recognizable tune that can sound incredibly full and rich with only sightreading very basic notes using lead sheets/ fakebook. They sort of combine both by using fairly easy and simple score as a musical 'guide', and then requiring that you the performer fill in a lot of the missing blanks with your own improvised sections. This is a more advanced skill but one to certainly look forward to in the future.


Over the past few months, I have been focusing primarily on developing my rhythm playing and my reading was put on the back burner. Now that I grasped the very basics of rhythm, it is about time to bring it to the forth again.
I know that I may sound naive. When I started learning music, I never comprehended why it takes so long to learn to read.
I have a long to go to develop my sight-reading (read & play) to an acceptable level. It is part of the foundation development.

Originally Posted By: JosephAC
What started as an experiment to learn something new for a year is turning out to be a long term endeavor. Needless to say, I am learning a lot about myself as music journey continues.


Originally Posted By: Mr Super-Hunky
Drinking and driving don't mix. Booze and boating don't mix. Learning to play piano and instant gratification don't mix. You absolutely get out of it what you put into it. This means that if you practice a lot with concentrated efforts then you will play/sound like you practice a lot with concentrated effort. If you practice for 10 minutes a couple times a week then you will perform and sound like you practice for 10 minutes a couple times a week. [1st gear logic I know but damn it's accurate!]

Learning to play piano and instant gratification don't mix Wise words. In order to uphold this ‘principle’, it takes a total paradigm shift, a total reprogramming.

Originally Posted By: JosephAC
While I am looking forward for your answer to the question, I am of the opinion that anyone can learn to improvise. Actually, we improvise all the time. When we speak and express our thoughts, we improvise. We do not check with the manual what we should be saying. Music is just another (primitive ?/ sonic ) language and we should be able to improvise the way we can improvise after learning a foreign language (say German or French Or Spanish).


Originally Posted By: Mr Super-Hunky
Yes you are right. My only point to stress....DOUBLE-STRESS is to learn in the way that naturally fits you. [just like the example I gave in learning how to adjust my lawn tractor valves]. If I were forced to buy a boring, no picture technical manual to learn how to do the job I probably would not have done it. Reading thick, boring, no picture technical manuals that spend the first 30 pages telling you how not to cut your arms off is like Kryptonite to me. Instead, I watched a visual Youtube video and within no time at all had the job done correctly.


Spot on!

Originally Posted By: JosephAC
In summary, experimentation and improvisation is not limited to the artist with creative genetic. What is creativity anyway? We are all creative to some extent.

Originally Posted By: Mr Super-Hunky
You are right, but remember, some people have lots of common sense and some have none. This could be said about creativity as well. To get this right, just spend a little more time at the things you are not so good at. Save what you are really good at for parties and picking up chicks! lol


Tell me more.

Top
#2115550 - 07/10/13 07:18 AM Re: What is our Music LQ (Learning Quotient) ? [Re: JosephAC]
JosephAC Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/23/12
Posts: 168
Loc: Melbourne Australia
Originally Posted By: Mr Super-Hunky
Just pick a piece, any piece that appeals to you and is within your abilities and then simply learn it. Over time with practice and repetition you will start to fine tune it. To make the piece stand out and be well received you must immerse yourself physically and emotionally into the way you perform it. This way the emotional input you inject into the piece will come through and be received by the listener.


I must say that at today's practice , I injected a lot of emotion into a new piece '57 12/8 Blues that I have been learning for the past 2 weeks and it felt and sounded so good for the first time. This is far different from the usual 'cold' and 'analytical' way that I have been practising all along. Somehow, injecting emotion into the piece seems to give the practice a new meaning. This might be fluffy and soft but I am saying the way it is.
When I first thought to inject emotion into it, I said to myself 'I will fake it until it feels right' but it felt and sounded right immediately . Does this make sense to you ?



Edited by JosephAC (07/10/13 07:20 AM)

Top
#2115622 - 07/10/13 11:05 AM Re: What is our Music LQ (Learning Quotient) ? [Re: malkin]
HalfStep Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/25/11
Posts: 201
Loc: Boston, MA
Originally Posted By: malkin
If you are comfortable outside of your comfort zone how do you know you are not still in your comfort zone?


Lol smile

Top

Moderator:  BB Player, casinitaly 
What's Hot!!
75,000 Members and Growing!
-------------------
HOW TO POST PICTURES on the Piano Forums
-------------------
Sharing is Caring!
About the Buttons
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Knabe Pianos
Sheet Music
(PW is an affiliate)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
Who's Online
123 registered (a-z0-9, ajames, Abby Pianoman, 36251, 35 invisible), 1673 Guests and 26 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
75509 Members
42 Forums
156142 Topics
2292983 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Pianist Noah Landis - Lowell, MA Sept. 6th
by Piano World
Today at 06:09 PM
Guidance for Publishing
by Dachshund
Today at 06:02 PM
Keith Emerson Playing NY in October!
by Piano World
Today at 05:52 PM
Action parts any different from 80s,90s, 2k Charles Walter?
by Gatsbee13
Today at 04:36 PM
Question about finger reach!
by Plopsy
Today at 04:23 PM
(ads by Google)

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission