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#2110033 - 06/29/13 02:15 AM Haydn Sonata in G minor Hob.XVI - 44 seeking advice
Yuuki Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/21/11
Posts: 36
Loc: Tokyo
I have been wondering what musical interpretation is, and in this context, I would like to receive advice on my playing.
(topic: http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/2109987.html)
Of course, any advice in general not concerning interpretation (techniques, routines, etc) is greatly appreciated as well.

It's not by any means perfect; I am still in the practice stage.
There are mistakes and I stop to turn pages.
Nevertheless, if you are so kind enough to take a moment to comment, it would be a great help to me.

https://soundcloud.com/user179750564/haydn-piano-sonata-in-g-minor


Edited by Yuuki (06/29/13 02:17 AM)
_________________________
Working on:
Mozart Piano sonata in F http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthrea...%20%28seek.html
Tchaikovsky "May" http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthrea...ing%20advic.htm

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#2110179 - 06/29/13 12:57 PM Re: Haydn Sonata in G minor Hob.XVI - 44 seeking advice [Re: Yuuki]
Steve Chandler Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/18/05
Posts: 2780
Loc: Urbandale, Iowa
You mentioned in the other thread that recording makes you play more carefully. This recording sounds that way all the parts are played correctly, but it doesn't have the freedom and lightness of spirit that's the essence of Haydn. Your soft sections should be even softer and the passagework with a lighter touch. Haydn was a lighthearted and cheerful man and his music should be played that way. Think good humor and good spirits. You play the piece well, but with more confidence (i.e. more practice) you should be able to capture the spirit of the composer better. Have fun!

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#2110252 - 06/29/13 04:21 PM Re: Haydn Sonata in G minor Hob.XVI - 44 seeking advice [Re: Yuuki]
Yuuki Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/21/11
Posts: 36
Loc: Tokyo
Thank you for the comment.

Quote:

Your soft sections should be even softer and the passagework with a lighter touch.

I'll definitely work on this.
_________________________
Working on:
Mozart Piano sonata in F http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthrea...%20%28seek.html
Tchaikovsky "May" http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthrea...ing%20advic.htm

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#2110409 - 06/30/13 12:32 AM Re: Haydn Sonata in G minor Hob.XVI - 44 seeking advice [Re: Yuuki]
Cinnamonbear Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 3980
Loc: Rockford, IL
Yuuki! Fancy meeting YOU here! laugh

I do not disagree with anything that Steve suggested. The question is, though, "How do you get there?" I have several ideas, with some questions and comments.

1) Do you like this piece? I mean, if you were to look for something to listen to for pleasure, would you land on this piece?

2) Do you like to play it? Does it "mean" something to you? Or, to put it another way, does it make you feel a certain way when you play it? (Happy? Playful? Mischievous? Comedic? Goofy?) (Serious? Well mannered? Formal? Thoughtful? Introspective?) crazy

3) Your timings and dynamic shadings are good. I think they just need a little more refining and finesse.

4) I think your recording set up is making it sound more clipped off and choppy than it really is. It seems like there is some kind of "noise gate" setting that is messing with the dynamic fluidity of the digital stream. Does that makes any sense? In other words, we who are listening are not getting the real effect of what you are playing without using our imagination to fill in some gaps to some extent. I think when you stop playing (at rests, or the end of phrases, or after staccato, for example), the computer is forcing the sound go to "black," to stop, before it really does in real life. I got this impression even more definitely when listening to the Beethoven Bagatelle that you posted. Then, when I went back and listened to your Haydn again, some of the "expression" made more sense, because I could separate what the computer did to your sound from what I could "hear into" what you were playing.

5) Take some practice time and do the opposite of what you are doing in this sound clip. Play the piece very, very slowly and as legato as you can make it be. In other words, wreck the playing of it. Make it soupy and legato--without using the pedal. Go very smoothly and very slowly, until you can play it very well, in "wrong" fashion. This will take time, maybe even several days of practice, and will blow the fuses in your brain. Then, put the piece aside for a day or two. Don't play it. Sleep on it. Then, come back to the piece, and play it "right," the way you feel it should be played, and the way you would want to play it in order for it to sound "right." Make a recording, and compare what you have previously recorded with what you get after doing this little experiment I'm suggesting, and let's see what has happened to your "interpretation"! If you post a recording in less than a week, though, that will not count. smile The rule is wink , you have to take longer than a week of practice and sleeping on it to make it happen. grin

If you decide to follow this advice, I am really looking forward to see what changes come from you when you play this piece.

All the best!
--Andy

P.S. I really liked the Beethoven Bagatelle, but wanted to start here with comments and suggestions.


Edited by Cinnamonbear (06/30/13 12:40 AM)
_________________________
I may not be fast,
but at least I'm slow.

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#2110478 - 06/30/13 06:23 AM Re: Haydn Sonata in G minor Hob.XVI - 44 seeking advice [Re: Cinnamonbear]
Yuuki Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/21/11
Posts: 36
Loc: Tokyo
1) To speak truthfully, I probably wouldn't go to this piece for pleasure listening. If I were to listen to piano music, I'd go to for more romantic pieces Satie's Gymnopedie. Also, I find myself at fault at this point that I cannot learn to enjoy listening to classical music in the same way I listen to pop music. When I go listen to classical music, they are always for "learning" purposes, and not for pleasure or enjoyment. (However, playing is altogether a different matter; I do play classical music for pleasure)

2) I get this feeling of a robber in a comical movie; the staccato an the jumps made by the notes reminds me of tiptoes. Sort of similar to what I feel when I listen to the pink panther music.

4) I did realize this when I listened to my own recordings.I'm recording with my laptop placed on the piano. Maybe the reverberations caused by the instrument is getting in. But I'm not enough of a tech-person to take out the effects. (I use Audacity to record and convert to mp3 format)

5) This sounds really exciting; of course I'll try it. laugh

And finally, thank you for taking time to extensively comment on my recording. Also I'm happy to learn you liked my Beethoven.

update
I played the legato version once.
And even in this one playing, I noticed changes in my "interpretation", or my feeling when I was playing it.
For one, the tempo became more stately.
Also, I played the arpeggios more fully, and as a consequence realized that I may have been rushing over them in the previous version.
This was all very interesting to note.


Edited by Yuuki (06/30/13 06:50 AM)
_________________________
Working on:
Mozart Piano sonata in F http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthrea...%20%28seek.html
Tchaikovsky "May" http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthrea...ing%20advic.htm

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#2110564 - 06/30/13 11:26 AM Re: Haydn Sonata in G minor Hob.XVI - 44 seeking advice [Re: Yuuki]
Cinnamonbear Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 3980
Loc: Rockford, IL
Originally Posted By: Yuuki
[...]
update
I played the legato version once.
And even in this one playing, I noticed changes in my "interpretation", or my feeling when I was playing it.
For one, the tempo became more stately.
Also, I played the arpeggios more fully, and as a consequence realized that I may have been rushing over them in the previous version.
This was all very interesting to note.


wink smile
_________________________
I may not be fast,
but at least I'm slow.

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#2113843 - 07/06/13 04:20 PM Re: Haydn Sonata in G minor Hob.XVI - 44 seeking advice [Re: Yuuki]
Yuuki Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/21/11
Posts: 36
Loc: Tokyo
Well, it's been a week, so I'll post the new version of haydn:
https://soundcloud.com/user179750564/haydn-piano-sonata-in-g
_________________________
Working on:
Mozart Piano sonata in F http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthrea...%20%28seek.html
Tchaikovsky "May" http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthrea...ing%20advic.htm

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#2114156 - 07/07/13 11:12 AM Re: Haydn Sonata in G minor Hob.XVI - 44 seeking advice [Re: Yuuki]
Cinnamonbear Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 3980
Loc: Rockford, IL
Wow, Yuuki, it's good! thumb

Whatever you discovered on your musical journey last week, it payed off. This rendition is much more relaxed, playful, light, and fluid and makes tons of musical sense. The dynamic shadings and the phase shapings are really improved! You did a lot of great work on this, that's for sure! It's thoughtful, without being "over-thought."

There is only one place where I sense yet a puzzle to solve, and that is the passage that starts at 2:35 and ends at 2:45. It sounds like it is partly a "technique" issue (meaning maybe just a little more practice needed to bring it nicely up to speed, with maybe some slight hand, wrist, arm, or body position changes to consider), but it is also an "understanding the musical line" issue. This is one of those places where you want to question, "What is Haydn driving at here? What does he mean by ending this portion that way? Just what is that jolly joker doing with the musical line, here?"

But, imho, on the whole, you've got it! laugh

Thanks for sharing. I enjoyed this delightful performance. grin

--Andy
_________________________
I may not be fast,
but at least I'm slow.

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#2114289 - 07/07/13 04:18 PM Re: Haydn Sonata in G minor Hob.XVI - 44 seeking advice [Re: Yuuki]
Yuuki Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/21/11
Posts: 36
Loc: Tokyo
Quote:
There is only one place where I sense yet a puzzle to solve, and that is the passage that starts at 2:35 and ends at 2:45.

I listened to my recording again, and I also did feel it that section was a little awkward.
I'll think that one out.

Quote:
Thanks for sharing. I enjoyed this delightful performance.

And thank /you/ for giving me much advice since the last thread.
_________________________
Working on:
Mozart Piano sonata in F http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthrea...%20%28seek.html
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