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#2114611 - 07/08/13 11:32 AM Steinway going private #2
BerndAB Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/17/10
Posts: 545
Loc: Germany
Dear Rickster, pal:
wink

too early the thread was locked.. I apologize if my harsh german words against financial voodoo artists may have contributed to such a decision..

There is the saga that at any time in the past Steinway bought hundreds or maybe thousands of Steinway grands "out of the market". Reason: The biggest enemy to sell a new Steinway grand are the thousands of good old Steinway grands..

They were said not to have burnt them but to store them at a secret place anywhere in the Southern U.S. ... An "elephants graveyard"?

Is Kohlberg & Co. aware that - assumed this is right - they buy this giant stock of old Steinway grands? It is also an "asset" - and what will happen with this "asset" if the company is sold..?..

Wondering...

Any contributions to this matter, or is it a saga only?


Edited by BerndAB (07/08/13 11:35 AM)
_________________________
Pls excuse any bad english.

D 1877 satin black plain

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#2115088 - 07/09/13 09:41 AM Re: Steinway going private #2 [Re: BerndAB]
nylawbiz Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/01/09
Posts: 254
Loc: Columbia County, New York
I guess my posts from last Autumn weren't so crazy after all:

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1987823/Re:%20Steinway%20Hall%20in%20NY%20-%20Sold.html#Post1987823

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#2115092 - 07/09/13 09:53 AM Re: Steinway going private #2 [Re: BerndAB]
Bob Snyder Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/30/08
Posts: 164
Loc: West Coast
With great difficulty, I have not responded to the almost miraculous number of completely inaccurate items I've noticed in the numerous threads related to the recent news related to Steinway & Sons.

In this case, I will speak up. The notion floated above related to of a huge stockpile of used Steinway grands is nonsense. Period.
_________________________
Bob Snyder
Senior District Manager
Steinway & Sons

rsnyder@steinway.com
www.steinway.com

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#2115094 - 07/09/13 09:57 AM Re: Steinway going private #2 [Re: BerndAB]
Plowboy Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/26/08
Posts: 2398
Loc: SoCal
Bob, you are a man of incredible patience! You've proven that many times here.

I fear for Steinway, however, and have no faith in Wall Street to do anything but harm.

Best of luck to you and the rest of the folks working at the factory.
_________________________
Gary

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#2115107 - 07/09/13 10:53 AM Re: Steinway going private #2 [Re: BerndAB]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7439
Loc: Rochester MN
And I always though that trained Yetis cared for that treasure trove of pianos. You mean that it isn't located at Area 51?

Such sadness when one's faith is shattered.
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2115146 - 07/09/13 01:04 PM Re: Steinway going private #2 [Re: Minnesota Marty]
Trstan993 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/24/13
Posts: 89
I fear Gordon Gekko just bought out Steinway.....

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#2115243 - 07/09/13 04:34 PM Re: Steinway going private #2 [Re: Bob Snyder]
BerndAB Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/17/10
Posts: 545
Loc: Germany
Originally Posted By: Bob Snyder
With great difficulty, I have not responded to the almost miraculous number of completely inaccurate items I've noticed in the numerous threads related to the recent news related to Steinway & Sons.

In this case, I will speak up. The notion floated above related to of a huge stockpile of used Steinway grands is nonsense. Period.



Thank you for the patience and the clear statement, Bob!

(..might save me many travelling costs..)

Actually I would not like to be a highgrade Steinway employee in these times. Must be a hard time.

Thumbs up for Steinway New York. (My grand came from N.Y.C. even if it once was Manhattan, 52th street 4th ave. But frame, keys and mechanism came via Steinway ferry from the then-flame-new Ditmars factory.)

Best regards to New York City, Queens, Ditmars, Steinway Place No.1

Bernd A.B.
_________________________
Pls excuse any bad english.

D 1877 satin black plain

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#2115294 - 07/09/13 07:01 PM Re: Steinway going private #2 [Re: Minnesota Marty]
Tom Burgess Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/06/10
Posts: 46
Loc: Norman, OK
Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty
And I always though that trained Yetis cared for that treasure trove of pianos. You mean that it isn't located at Area 51?

Such sadness when one's faith is shattered.

Marty, you're close. Actually it's Area 88...

but you didn't hear it from me and I may or may not have actually typed this message.
_________________________
Gilliam Music - Norman, OK
Full Line Retailer Featuring:
Steinway, Kawai, Martin, Taylor, Fender, Soundcraft, JBL, Crown, etc.

Opinions expressed by me on this forum are my own and not necessarily that of the company for which I work.

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#2115337 - 07/09/13 08:39 PM Re: Steinway going private #2 [Re: BerndAB]
TX-Dennis Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/09/05
Posts: 4126
Loc: Texas
I suspect nothing much will change at Steinway with the buyout. Private equity firms today are largely investing for the long term rather than for a fast buck. The 80s and 90s are history. Much if not most of the money they made doing quick turnarounds back then was lost on subsequent deals. Most of them want to follow in Warren Buffet's footsteps rather than those of the Gordon Gekko type corporate raiders of yore.
_________________________
Dennis

flickr


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#2115380 - 07/09/13 10:03 PM Re: Steinway going private #2 [Re: BerndAB]
SBP Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/12/12
Posts: 258
I don't recall ever hearing about Steinway buying up and storing a bunch of their old pianos in a warehouse so that more people would buy new ones. I do remember that my brother once told me about how Atari buried a bunch of E.T. cartridges in a desert in the '80s because the game was such a bomb, and of course the Arc of the Covenant is locked in an box in an inconspicuous large government warehouse wink
_________________________
2012 Kawai K3

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#2115394 - 07/09/13 10:24 PM Re: Steinway going private #2 [Re: BerndAB]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7439
Loc: Rochester MN
The Atari thing is true, but it happened in an odd way.

I have the True Cross in my basement, however.
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2115397 - 07/09/13 10:30 PM Re: Steinway going private #2 [Re: BerndAB]
Dave B Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/01/11
Posts: 1974
Loc: Philadelphia area
I sure don't believe the rumor about a warehouse in China being full of Kawai made Steinways. Sounds like something a mover would tell a tuner.

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#2115407 - 07/09/13 10:59 PM Re: Steinway going private #2 [Re: BerndAB]
SBP Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/12/12
Posts: 258
Yeah, I never really believed it until I read it on a gaming trivia site a couple months ago. My older brother was known for spinning elaborate yarns and urban legends, mostly to scare me or look smart. Since we were both smart-alecks and dumb kids and prone to arguing, we'd argue about it and would eventually lead to ridiculous and unrelated conclusions most of the time. The moral of this is is that there's no moral.

But, let's not jump to conclusions about the future fate of Steinway just yet. They may get raided by corporate vultures, they may have their production moved to someplace in Asia, they may enter another dark period like they did 40 years ago, they will improve their quality and consistency, or nothing will change at all. Who knows?


Edited by SBP (07/11/13 10:51 AM)
_________________________
2012 Kawai K3

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#2115442 - 07/09/13 11:57 PM Re: Steinway going private #2 [Re: SBP]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7439
Loc: Rochester MN
Originally Posted By: SBP
But, let's not jump to conclusions about the future fate of Steinway just yet.



(Now, let's go hunt for the Steinway Stash!)
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2115448 - 07/10/13 12:12 AM Re: Steinway going private #2 [Re: BerndAB]
Plowboy Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/26/08
Posts: 2398
Loc: SoCal
I heard there's still a warehouse stocked with those Honda CBX six cylinder motorcycles from the '70s.
_________________________
Gary

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#2115463 - 07/10/13 01:21 AM Re: Steinway going private #2 [Re: Bob Snyder]
phacke Offline

Gold Supporter until November 11 2014


Registered: 10/18/12
Posts: 592
Loc: CO, USA
Originally Posted By: Bob Snyder
With great difficulty, I have not responded to the almost miraculous number of completely inaccurate items I've noticed in the numerous threads related to the recent news related to Steinway & Sons.

In this case, I will speak up. The notion floated above related to of a huge stockpile of used Steinway grands is nonsense. Period.



Thank you for your comments, Mr. Snyder -

It depends on the definition of 'huge.' It is admittedly taking it down a notch, but this gentleman in Tennessee here
http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/2112864/Re:%20Ivory%20vs%20Ivorette?.html#Post2112864
just wrote on PW:
"I have a pretty large collection of steinways over 6 feet that I put into a trust that cannot be sold until a specific date just to stifle crazy brokers that call me daily with lowball offers. Prices will go up eventually."

It is however easy to see based on this how concepts originating in some reality may drift a bit.

Regarding your comments about the completely inaccurate items in these threads. Yes, stakeholders in companies undergoing takeovers, M&A, what have you, such as in this case with Steinway & Sons, tend to speculate in the absence of solid information. By stakeholders, I mean, suppliers, dealers, employees, customers, shareholders, and community members. I think it is natural. While everyone has their concerns that manifest on this forum in all kinds of ways that may seem odd for you to read, I think the vast majority really hope for the very best of outcomes for your company, its people, and expect a good continuation into the next chapter of its great legacy through the present transition.

Best regards -


Edited by phacke (07/10/13 04:10 AM)
_________________________
phacke

Steinway YM (1933)
...Working on:
J. S. Bach, Sonata No. 1 in B minor (BWV 1014) duet with violin
F. Chopin, Prelude 28 (15)

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#2115878 - 07/10/13 10:36 PM Re: Steinway going private #2 [Re: BerndAB]
Hamburg-D Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/04/13
Posts: 513
Sometimes I think these threads about the buy-out should be posted on some forum for investors in the stock market, but I guess it belongs here too.

It is amusing to see alot of speculation and since I, or most of the people here don't have enough information, I feel it is not for me to form an opinion.

Regarding the used market of pianos and what it does to sales of new pianos I do have a little bit of feedback on.

From the car industry which I know the ins and outs of, which is extremely similar to the piano industry - It's almost scary.


You have 3 common types of car manufacturers.
1) costs more, designed to last
2) costs more, they try to make quality, but haven't figured it out
3) costs less, designed to break and money is generated through service department.

Option #3 is interesting. They actually engineer certain parts to fail after 6 years or 100,000 miles. They do their best to put certain parts in a time accelerated environment. But Option #3 doesn't apply to pianos since a piano manufacturer does not make money on a service department as a car dealership does.

Steinway is not option #3 regardless but in my opinion it's like option #1. It costs more, designed to last.

So there you also have BMW as one of the car manufacturers that falls into option #1. And I can tell you for a fact that they judge themselves by how well their used cars do on the market. If used BMW's did not sell well on the open market, BMW corporate would have a serious problem. They WANT used BMW to hold value, and be great cars.

Here is why:
You are 25 years old and got your first decent job out of college. You buy a 2003 BMW 328i for $8000 because that's all you can afford. The car is great! Reliable, fun to drive, looks good, gets you girls etc etc... You're hooked! 5 years later, chances are good that you go buy a new BMW from the dealer.

My point is, that BMW needs their used cars out there performing WELL! A nice car, or a great new steinway is not something you just go out and buy unless (with a few exceptions to the super super rich who want it as furniture). It would be interesting if Steinway has data on how many NEW steinway buyers have owned a used steinway in the past.


Now there is the other end of the stick, the used rebuilt piano dealers who will constantly try to shove things in people's heads about how so and so only built great pianos pre WW2 and so and and so forth. But it doesn't take a genius to realize that they obviously have a bias interest. They sell rebuilt pianos - what do you want them to say?? hahaha

In my non professional opinion, I like new. Never been fan of the vintage. I don't like old cars, or old pianos. Old cars have outdated technology and metal fatigue. And with pianos - well - WOOD ROTS!!!!!


Edited by noambenhamou (07/10/13 10:42 PM)

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#2115887 - 07/10/13 11:08 PM Re: Steinway going private #2 [Re: BerndAB]
Plowboy Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/26/08
Posts: 2398
Loc: SoCal
That's funny, my buddy the BMW mechanic calls them BM-Trouble-You.


Edited by Plowboy (07/10/13 11:25 PM)
_________________________
Gary

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#2115895 - 07/10/13 11:42 PM Re: Steinway going private #2 [Re: Hamburg-D]
Rod Verhnjak Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/09/06
Posts: 3659
Loc: Vancouver B.C. Canada
Originally Posted By: noambenhamou
Now there is the other end of the stick, the used rebuilt piano dealers who will constantly try to shove things in people's heads about how so and so only built great pianos pre WW2 and so and and so forth. But it doesn't take a genius to realize that they obviously have a bias interest. They sell rebuilt pianos - what do you want them to say?? hahaha

In my non professional opinion, I like new. Never been fan of the vintage. I don't like old cars, or old pianos. Old cars have outdated technology and metal fatigue. And with pianos - well - WOOD ROTS!!!!!



You don't have to like old cars (I just came back from a vintage car show)
Steinway has not improved their design in a hundred years or more.
I would rather have a Steinway from 1900 to 1936 than most from 1950's to 1990's.
Customers often choose rebuilt Steinways over new due to cabinet styles and price.
Wood only rots when wet. And particle board turns into mush. (No PB in Steinway)


_________________________
Verhnjak Pianos
Specializing in the Restoration, Refinishing & Maintenance
of Fine Heirloom Pianos

Exclusive Dealer For Charles R. Walter Pianos
www.pianoman.ca
Verhnjak Pianos Facebook


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#2115898 - 07/10/13 11:46 PM Re: Steinway going private #2 [Re: Hamburg-D]
TomazP Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/17/09
Posts: 108
Loc: Ucluelet, BC Canada
Every country can build a better mouse trap. A few can build pianos. Only Steinway can build a Steinway. Obviously noambenhamou has never played a Verhnjak rebuild. I have played six. They are all glorious.

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#2116067 - 07/11/13 10:25 AM Re: Steinway going private #2 [Re: Rod Verhnjak]
Orz Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/21/13
Posts: 61
Originally Posted By: Rod Verhnjak
Originally Posted By: noambenhamou
Now there is the other end of the stick, the used rebuilt piano dealers who will constantly try to shove things in people's heads about how so and so only built great pianos pre WW2 and so and and so forth. But it doesn't take a genius to realize that they obviously have a bias interest. They sell rebuilt pianos - what do you want them to say?? hahaha

In my non professional opinion, I like new. Never been fan of the vintage. I don't like old cars, or old pianos. Old cars have outdated technology and metal fatigue. And with pianos - well - WOOD ROTS!!!!!



You don't have to like old cars (I just came back from a vintage car show)
Steinway has not improved their design in a hundred years or more.
I would rather have a Steinway from 1900 to 1936 than most from 1950's to 1990's.
Customers often choose rebuilt Steinways over new due to cabinet styles and price.
Wood only rots when wet. And particle board turns into mush. (No PB in Steinway)




I thought S&S didnt have Accelerated Action till 1931, and Diaphragmatic Soundboard till 1936? Saw this on their brochure...

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#2116093 - 07/11/13 11:39 AM Re: Steinway going private #2 [Re: Plowboy]
KurtZ Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/13/10
Posts: 997
Loc: The Heart of Screenland
Originally Posted By: Plowboy
I heard there's still a warehouse stocked with those Honda CBX six cylinder motorcycles from the '70s.


Gary you ignorant slut. Everyone knows it's a warehouse full of four cylinder Harley Davidsons built by Honda.
_________________________
I just wanted to be just "a" guy. That's enough of a life.

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#2116139 - 07/11/13 01:40 PM Re: Steinway going private #2 [Re: KurtZ]
Plowboy Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/26/08
Posts: 2398
Loc: SoCal
Originally Posted By: KurtZ


Gary you ignorant slut. 3hearts


Porsche made an engine for Harley back in the '70s, I believe it was a four cylinder, but nothing came of it. Too bad, it sounded really cool.

OK, found it:
http://www.bikerenews.com/AntiqueBikes/CodeNameNova.htm

Interestingly, in relation to Steinway:
Quote:
Then Gott retired, Tom York took over AMF, and the outlook suddenly changed. Previously AMF's business was roughly half industrial and half leisure, Harley being part of the latter group. In a major shift in strategy, York ordered the expansion of the industrial side, and financed it with profits from the leisure side. Under this plan Harley-Davidson, AMF's largest profit generator, would become the cash cow, milked of capital to feed other business interests. The Nova project, ultimately considered expensive and risky, fell victim to the bottom line, and was terminated.
_________________________
Gary

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#2116158 - 07/11/13 02:39 PM Re: Steinway going private #2 [Re: BerndAB]
laguna_greg Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/02/13
Posts: 1382
Loc: guess where in CA and WA
Well All,

My piano tuner was told by a cash-only piano mover that Area 88 is not where it used to be because trained professional hit-Yetis assassinate anyone who comes within 50 miles of it, then distribute disinformation leaflets in divey bars in Tijuana where college kids go on Spring Break. Yup, THOSE kinds of Bars!!!

Apparently the campaign works. Everybody think it's in the Bermuda Triangle.

It's Not. And then they harvest your kidneys in South America while turning your dead backside into lampshades they sell in Nepal because Yetis are pretty freaky.

Really.

"Ignorant Sluts" indeed...


Edited by laguna_greg (07/11/13 02:43 PM)
Edit Reason: i can't seem to stop...
_________________________
Laguna Greg

1919 Mason & Hamlin AA
1931 Bechstein C - now sold
http://www.triangleassociates-us.com/about_us (my day job)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorothy_Taubman (a recent article I wrote about one of my teachers)

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#2116392 - 07/11/13 11:34 PM Re: Steinway going private #2 [Re: Hamburg-D]
Ed McMorrow, RPT Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/09/12
Posts: 2414
Loc: Seattle, WA USA
Well you are a confusing person. The only Steinway you praised was a C&A loaner Steinway D that you played for a period before the new D you purchased was available. You have expressed such dislike of your new D that you refused to take delivery of it and posted voluminously here about your dismay that it doesn't sound like a broken-in one.

So which is it-do you like new Steinways or-older ones?

I rebuild used Steinways and incorporate new technology like my Patent Pending "Fully Tempered Duplex Scale", and my trademark "LightHammer Tone Regulation Procedure". Hybrid wire scales. Carbon fiber hammer-shanks. Heat-shrink Teflon tubing on key-pins. In short my rebuilt pianos are state of the art-they play and sound better from day one-and they stay that way much longer-and you can't get that from any new manufacturer.

There are options you are not experienced with.
_________________________
In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible

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#2116427 - 07/12/13 01:30 AM Re: Steinway going private #2 [Re: BerndAB]
phacke Offline

Gold Supporter until November 11 2014


Registered: 10/18/12
Posts: 592
Loc: CO, USA
Originally Posted By: BerndAB
Dear Rickster, pal:
wink

too early the thread was locked.. I apologize if my harsh german words against financial voodoo artists may have contributed to such a decision..

Originally Posted By: Ed McMorrow, RPT
Some of these MBA schools are in state operated educational institutions. I wonder if we shouldn't be looking at this as a form of "State sponsored economic terrorism"!


+1

I didn’t say one single word for or against any people involved in the Steinway management or momentary ownership like Mr Kim. I distrust the financial people from Wall Street, from Francfort et cetera. And I distrust the MBA education in Germany because of the lack of ethics, I’ve seen a lot of young ethos-free MBA people acting in big companies...

I am an engineer, specialist in machinery and gearbox fabrication, CNC and CAD technology. For me to earn money involves to produce goods and the knowledge to do so, to distribute them and to deliver them to customers, that’s real economy and honest work.


Hello Mr. BerndAB,

I enjoy your passionate posts. I enjoy the passionate posts about the history of your piano. The proud work you do. I hope to meet you some time to see piano history or its present state in Germany, maybe. This virtual world only goes so far for me.

Guys, MBA programs are not all bad, though I too have seen the damage that the MBAs can do, just like the kind you wrote of, in Germany too.

Best wishes -
_________________________
phacke

Steinway YM (1933)
...Working on:
J. S. Bach, Sonata No. 1 in B minor (BWV 1014) duet with violin
F. Chopin, Prelude 28 (15)

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