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#2114910 - 07/08/13 10:23 PM Short treble dampers??
Tuneless Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/17/13
Posts: 186
Loc: AZ, USA
Can anyone tell me why they might have used short treble dampers? Do I need to imitate this arrangement?
http://www.pbase.com/schnitz/image/151224334/large
http://www.pbase.com/schnitz/image/151224335/large

It appears that these are the original dampers that Conover/WNG used back in 1889.
_________________________
Cynthia

Roland FP-50
Conover Upright, 1888/9, but a very low mileage piano. http://www.pbase.com/schnitz/conover_upright_piano__1888_or_9 .
Tuneless = Don't play piano(yet) and couldn't tune a guitar, much less a piano.
I'm technically very capable. I love my piano and love tinkering with it.

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#2115039 - 07/09/13 06:15 AM Re: Short treble dampers?? [Re: Tuneless]
tds Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/30/06
Posts: 446
Loc: Bastrop, Texas
Because of the red felt remnants on one damper, I would say that the originals were removed and replaced for some reason.
_________________________
Stay tuned.

Tom Seay, Recovering Piano Technician
Bastrop, Texas

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#2115062 - 07/09/13 07:48 AM Re: Short treble dampers?? [Re: Tuneless]
Olek Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7901
Loc: France
they where changed and probably do not need to be longer, but they must be spaced and line correctly. You may need adequate tools to bend the wire and the spoons.
For instance the 57 damper need a small paper strip on the left side of the flange. (right side in the pic)



Edited by Olek (07/09/13 08:05 AM)
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#2115126 - 07/09/13 12:00 PM Re: Short treble dampers?? [Re: Tuneless]
Tuneless Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/17/13
Posts: 186
Loc: AZ, USA
I have the tools. I suspected originals because the wood below the felt is pretty clean. But that just means both originals and replacements were short. You are right about the backing felt being a different color, with mid range and base being red backed and no red backing on the treble dampers. Here is a pic of the mid range dampers showing one of the replacement dampers on far right in pic. http://www.pbase.com/schnitz/image/151142297/large
_________________________
Cynthia

Roland FP-50
Conover Upright, 1888/9, but a very low mileage piano. http://www.pbase.com/schnitz/conover_upright_piano__1888_or_9 .
Tuneless = Don't play piano(yet) and couldn't tune a guitar, much less a piano.
I'm technically very capable. I love my piano and love tinkering with it.

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#2115153 - 07/09/13 01:26 PM Re: Short treble dampers?? [Re: Tuneless]
Gene Nelson Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 1511
Loc: Old Hangtown California
Possibly they were short because someone wanted a bit of after-ring which is characteristic of the older birdcages.
_________________________
RPT
PTG Member

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#2115231 - 07/09/13 04:14 PM Re: Short treble dampers?? [Re: Tuneless]
Tuneless Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/17/13
Posts: 186
Loc: AZ, USA
You know, I think you are right. The Damper blocks look original, with the dark patina of aging, but the bare wood under the damper felts that should be covered by felt is much lighter in color, as though exposed to UV and oxidation for a much shorter time.

So, this brings up the question of: Does anyone like this after ring? I have no experience to judge if I would like it or not. Do you think maybe I should complete all the work, but leave these old treble dampers in place until I can at least hear how they sound, and maybe compare to other pianos?
_________________________
Cynthia

Roland FP-50
Conover Upright, 1888/9, but a very low mileage piano. http://www.pbase.com/schnitz/conover_upright_piano__1888_or_9 .
Tuneless = Don't play piano(yet) and couldn't tune a guitar, much less a piano.
I'm technically very capable. I love my piano and love tinkering with it.

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#2115267 - 07/09/13 05:37 PM Re: Short treble dampers?? [Re: Tuneless]
Johnkie Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/04/11
Posts: 726
Loc: England
IMHO these dampers look typical of where someone at sometime has sweated off the old damper felts leaving a perfectly clean surface on the original damper heads and replaced one larger felt instead of two. The job looks serviceable but not what any pro would do. The original felts were most likely either large enough to cover the entire damper head with the centre stitched or two piece spaced apart ....i.e one piece top and bottom of each head with a gap in the middle exposing the red backing cloth.

The possibility of it ever sounding like an old over-damper would be virtually impossible to achieve, this being an under-damper! The reason over-dampers were so much less effective was solely down to the fact that such small felts were used so close to the top bridge.
_________________________
Concert Tuner & Technician for the past 49 years in the United Kingdom
and Member of the Pianoforte Tuners' Association (London)
www.jphillipspianoservices.freeindex.co.uk : E-mail jophillips06@aol.com

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#2115287 - 07/09/13 06:39 PM Re: Short treble dampers?? [Re: Tuneless]
Gene Nelson Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 1511
Loc: Old Hangtown California
I did not make any statement nor suggest that someone tried to make the piano sound like a birdcage.
I am very familiar with the birdcage action and why it sounds the way it does.
_________________________
RPT
PTG Member

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#2115313 - 07/09/13 07:40 PM Re: Short treble dampers?? [Re: Gene Nelson]
Johnkie Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/04/11
Posts: 726
Loc: England
Originally Posted By: Gene Nelson
Possibly they were short because someone wanted a bit of after-ring which is characteristic of the older birdcages.


Unfortunately your post seemed to me to infer that the replacement damper felt may have been to obtain under damper characteristics. I merely was trying to be helpful to the OP in explaining the difference, and why it would not.

Sometimes I wonder why I bother .... there's so much aggression here at times sheesh.
_________________________
Concert Tuner & Technician for the past 49 years in the United Kingdom
and Member of the Pianoforte Tuners' Association (London)
www.jphillipspianoservices.freeindex.co.uk : E-mail jophillips06@aol.com

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#2115320 - 07/09/13 07:56 PM Re: Short treble dampers?? [Re: Tuneless]
BDB Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 21674
Loc: Oakland
Most likely they were replaced with halves of damper felts by someone who was too cheap to do the job correctly.
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Semipro Tech

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