Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.5 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Gifts and supplies for the musician

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

Trying Something New with Search
(ad)
Calculator Looks Like Piano Keyboard
Calculator that looks like a piano keyboard
Piano Keyboard Calculator

New in the Piano World online store (PianoSupplies.com) now.
(ad)
Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) Pianoteq
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
(ad)
Piano Buyer Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Buyers Guide
Who's Online
64 registered (asiamusicman, augustm, AndrewJCW, barbaram, A7x, 13 invisible), 1150 Guests and 7 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Topic Options
#2115845 - 07/10/13 08:45 PM Latency (again)
MacMacMac Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 4701
Loc: North Carolina
I found a couple of articles about latency:
One from Presonus
One from Sound on Sound

Top
(ad 800)
Yamaha CP Stage Pianos
Yamaha CP Stage Pianos Simply the Best
#2115968 - 07/11/13 05:09 AM Re: Latency (again) [Re: MacMacMac]
sandalholme Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/31/09
Posts: 826
Loc: Dorset, UK
Many thanks for this. A current preoccupation of mine!

Top
#2116001 - 07/11/13 07:27 AM Re: Latency (again) [Re: MacMacMac]
toddy Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/30/11
Posts: 2614
Loc: Portugal
Great article from PreSonus! The Sound Ôn Sound one is as old as the hills (2002) so the poor fellow is still grappling with Windows 98 and USB1. (Shudder)

Still, it's interesting.
_________________________
Roland HP 302 / Samson Graphite 49

Reaper / NI Komplete 9 Ult. / Focusrite Saffire 24
W7, i7 4770, 16GB / Monitors: Yamaha HS7s .

Prudence is a rich ugly old maid courted by Incapacity. He who desires, but acts not, breeds pestilence.
William Blake, The Marriage of Heaven & heck

Top
#2116057 - 07/11/13 09:42 AM Re: Latency (again) [Re: sandalholme]
de cajon Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/10/13
Posts: 191
Loc: London, UK
Originally Posted By: sandalholme
... A current preoccupation of mine!


And mine. I'd been using Cakewalk's Sonar X1 DAW for a couple of years - quite happily. Then I upgraded to X2. (Always a dilemma - was quite happy but the longer you put off upgrades the worse it seems to be when you're finally forced to bite the bullet and do it.)

The latency instantly became horrendous. And I'd forgotten what had to be done to sort it. I finally found my way to the ASIO settings, fiddled with buffering (I think) and eventually got it acceptable (although I'd swear it's still worse than before).

A little while later I was playing a Yamaha C3 grand with the SG silent system as part of figuring out whether or not we were going to get a C3X with the SH silent system to replace our upright acoustic piano. The SHs hadn't come out at that time. I was surprised and disturbed to find noticeable latency. (The man at the store said it was because it was playing through external speakers shocked , but we'll draw a kindly veil over that.)

Anyway, the good news is that I can't detect any latency in the Yamaha SH silent system.
_________________________
Yamaha C3X SH

Top
(ad) ROLAND

Click Here

#2116444 - 07/12/13 03:09 AM Re: Latency (again) [Re: MacMacMac]
PtJaa Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/14/12
Posts: 267
Loc: Czech Republic
Interesting links, thanks!

I liked the blueprint for a home-made MIDI->audio cable that allows testing latency compared to incoming MIDI signal in the first article.

----------------

For excessive latency of various sound interfaces, i find this link very useful - it shows roundtrip latencies measured for many popular sound interfaces.

Even though the roundtrip latency (delay between sending a signal from a program to a soundcard and receiving it back, using a loopback cable plugged between inputs and outputs on the soundcard) is not exactly the latency relevant for virtual pianos - because of the complete ("out"+"in") roundtrip latency only the "out" part is part of the overall latency when we use VSTs, it still IMHO shows very well how well a particular sound interface is designed and what potential delay it can cause.

Also, It's easy to measure the roundtrip latency of one's sound interface at home using this utility.

-------------------------

What I'm personally concerned with more, is the inherent slowness of MIDI - 1 event takes 1ms to transfer. Does it mean that if I press e.g. 8 keys at the same time, it will take 8 ms to get the last note-on event to the other side? That sounds quite disconcerting to me, more than the more often discussed quantization of MIDI velocities to values 0-127...

I mean, how great is it to get the latency in the computer to extemely low levels, if even the midi cable sees the last note played in a chord only after e.g. 8ms?

I always wonder if instruments connected through USB have the same limitation, because if not, that would IMHO make USB a better interface than MIDI.
_________________________
Kawai CA65 :: Galaxy: Vintage D, Vienna Grand, Giant :: Pianoteq 5 :: Kontakt 5 :: Reaper :: True Keys pianos

Top
#2116458 - 07/12/13 04:33 AM Re: Latency (again) [Re: PtJaa]
de cajon Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/10/13
Posts: 191
Loc: London, UK
But, doesn't the Presonus article make it clear that hardware delays are not usually detectable? Isn't it the quality of the programming of the drivers and their use of buffering that creates perceptible latency?
_________________________
Yamaha C3X SH

Top

Moderator:  Piano World 
What's Hot!!
Piano Summit 2017 - Join Us!
along with Chick Corea, Jonathan Cain, David Rosenthal, Set Rudetsky, Ray Chew, Onree Gill ...
-------------------
Why Do YOU Play the Piano?
-------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

-------------------
Piano Classified Ads
Piano Acc. & Gift Items in
Piano World's Online Store
In PianoSupplies.com ,(a division of Piano World) our online store for piano and music gifts and accessories, party goods, tuning equipment, piano moving equipment, benches, lamps Caster Cups and more.


Free Shipping on Jansen Artist Piano Benches
(ad)
Pianist Magazine
Pianist Magazine - Helping you become a better player
(ad)
Defining National Piano Schools
Defining National Piano Schools
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ads)
PD - WNG - MH
Wessell Nickel & Gross
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Question about time signatures
by A7x
07/29/16 03:37 AM
Summer Piano Practice Challenge
by Medden
07/29/16 02:09 AM
What makes a Steinway a Steinway?
by Arghhh
07/29/16 12:10 AM
Help with Mozart Fantasy in D minor k397 scale runs
by rov
07/29/16 12:06 AM
Left-hand comping right-hand soloing
by giedosst
07/28/16 11:32 PM
Forum Stats
84,456 Registered Members
44 Forums
174,198 Topics
2,543,822 Posts

Most users ever online: 15,252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
Sheet Music Plus (125)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
|
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2016 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission