In fact, my consideration at this point in my reflextion is that, if I don't finally take the August Forster, it will probably be because of this oversensitivity and the difficulty to control it.
But I must try the AF again, and maybe again and again, to see if I can succeed in wrapping my mind and my fingers around it.

Very interesting post,...great comparisons for the various instruments.

You are so lucky Vippo to live in Europe where there are so many great piano builders so close to each other, compared to Canada, where we have what,... one builder (?) does Heintzman even still make pianos???

As one who is still searching for the 'perfect' piano for me...I can relate to your passion and angst as you sample and rate all the instruments you are playing.

Have you considered any rebuilt tier 1 instruments? That might keep you out of bankruptcy,...although speaking from personal experience,... I have way more 'pianos' albeit wonderful 'pianos' in my life than I can realistically afford assuming I want to retire before I am 75!!!

Good luck,..auguri..!

skyblanche

@Laurentyan:

Have you actually played the Förster 215? I so far only had a chance to play the 170 (which I found to be an incredibly nice piano), and not the 190, but the dealer did make a comment about the 215 showing signs of a dynamic plateau (something the 170 and apparently the 190 do not show).
It generally is dangerous to infer from one piano how another one of the same manufacturer will sound, but in this case, caution appears to be particularly important.
IF the 215 is a scaled up version of the 170 (or 190) then it should be a fantastic instrument, but if I were you I would definitely try one before buying one.

Markus

PS: what make is "Albert Weber"?

Breaking news: somehow I overlooked a dealer in north tyrol (Zillertal) who has a Sauter Vivace (should be the Maly- edition of the Delta) and an Omega in his showroom, which he rents for concerts. Guess where I'm going tomorrow morning

To mjs,

I definitely have tried a Forster 215, in fact I've tried two. I liked less the second one, and I would think it is because of a voicing done on it that I did not agree with. The first one was simply outstanding. I tried a lot of 190 models and I found them quite consistent, with one that really stood out in my mind, having an even darker and richer bass than all the other 190s, and a slightly less brilliant treble. But right after playing on this one, I went to the 215 and... wow! What a piano! So powerful, so festive, so tremendously responsive, and that incredible bass, even more incredible.

Probably you know this, but Forster specializes in very long bass strings. Or course, you cannot base a piano's evaluation on it's longest string length, many other design factors come into play. But with a manufacturer like August Forster, I can assure you that the long bass string length speaks... lengthily. If you take the longest string of the Forster 190 (6'3''), it measures 58.3 inches, which is only one inch shorter than the 59.25 inches of the longest string on the Steinway B (6'10''). If you move up to the Forster 215 (7'2''), you have 68.9 inches on the longest string. That's only one foot shorter than the 79 inches of the longest string on the Steinway D (8'11''). That string length makes quite a difference. In don't know how AF does it, but they have the richest bass in the industry, witness their bass string length, though that is probably only one part of the equation.

Of course, that creates an instrument that is slightly unbalanced, the bass section weighing a bit heavier in the keyboard's equilibrium, and you have to compensate a little for that in your play. But when you want richness and expressiveness in the lower register, mister, you can have it.

You ask: What make is "Albert Weber".
It is the new top of the line brand at Young Chang, which to my knowledge takes the place of the previous Young Chang Platinum Gold. Is it only a new name on an old model, or a new name on an improved design? I don't know and nothing is clear in this respect because there's a lot of dust still in the air following the very recent split up of Samick and Young Chang and following the repurchase of Young Chang by Hyundai. All this happened within the last year.

Here are a few considerations I've thought of that compare August Forster and Albert Weber, since they are two very differently priced pianos I am considering buying.

This is how I would rate them in relation to one another. Let's start with Larry Fine's 5 categories. I agree with his positioning of the AF in the top category. He ranks it third under Bosendorfer and Bluthner, and above Fazioli, Grotrian, Steinway and Mason & Hamlin. This is obviously something you can argue with, but for my part I strongly agree with him. In fact, I would put AF in second place because I prefer it to the Bluthner. Nevertheless, even though I don't like the Bluthner, I must recognize that it is one outstanding piano. I would still keep Bosendorfer way on top because when a Bosendorfer is really good, I don't think anything can beat it (and the price is stratospheric...).

As for the Albert Weber, since that name was not around at the time Larry Fine made his last ranking, I believe its equivalent would be the Young Chang Platinum that he ranks fifth in his third, or middle category, under Yamaha C, Kawai RX, Boston and Samick World Millenium. I would think that the "new" Albert Weber offers a certain improvement over the previous Young Chang Platinum Gold, because I would place it at the top of its category, well above Yamaha C, Kawai RX and Boston. I've tried all those pianos and I can assure you that I would buy an Albert Weber over and above all those brands any time (with the exception of the "new" Samick Pramberger, which rather impressed me, even though I don't like it particularly). In fact, I would go so far as to push the Albert Weber up to the bottom of Fine's fourth category.

I'm convinced that it's quality is not as great as an Estonia's, but I like it's tone just as much. As for Shulze Pollmann, Petrof and Seiler, these are brands I haven't tried, so I cannot compare and the recent Estonias are certainly above these brands (something Fine recognizes in his latest supplement).
Just above these brands, you find the Schimmel, of which I have tried a good number. (Fine puts the Schimmel in the lower middle of his Category 4). Most were pretty good, some indifferent, and one was rotten. I would believe that a Schimmel is maybe a bit more solidly built than an Albert Weber, but in terms of keyboard action, sustain, evenness and quality of tone, I prefer the Albert Weber. And it is significantly lower in price than the Schimmel, and much lower, by more than 25,000 $CA, than the August Forster.

It definitely seems I have to find one, because from your reviews it has to be considered a contender, especially given the price difference. I'll look out for them Albert Webers from now on!

Vippo,
Food for though.
I should indicate something to you that someone who is familiar with the Albert Webers has pointed out to me. I've tried only one model, the 6'9'', which had been prepared by the owner of the store who is also an excellent technician. This informer tells me that I liked this model specifically probably because of the excellent preparation by this technician. This technician made it sound like an older European model because that is his preference and he knows how to get the sound he wants from a piano. My informer is not sure if I would readily like another model that has not been prepared and he's not sure either if this preparation would hold very long. I cannot comment. I find the observation a valid one to hold in the back of my mind. I must note however that this technician could not have gotten this tone and performance from a mediocre piano. You cannot transform a mule into an arabian stallion.

Another valuable pointer: Young Chang is a company that has had a very checkered history with a good number of bankruptcies. The Albert Weber is only a "marketing brand" that has been slapped onto a pre-existing Young Chang model. It is not sure that Young Chang would uphold this brand indefinitely and not pass on to another one if market conditions commanded, leaving previous clients somewhat stranded with a no-name of little resale value. There again, I find it relevant to keep such an observation in the back of my mind.

Unfortunately this has also been the case with the Pramberger line that was previously built by Young Chang.

While being perhaps very good pianos all right, they may very well turn out to represent little if any 'investment' value - even simple resale by the owner could be deemed an onerous task in the future.

So, there is a certain "buy at own risk" factor with any of these pianos.

This, regardless of *price*......

Norbert

As announced yesterday, I have been to Fügen in Zillertal to visit Manfred Jelemensky's Piano shop.

First I played the Sauter Vivace (pictures follow, don't have the cable at home!!![/b]) which was located in a showroom of the furniture house in which Mr. Jelemensky has rented his shop. The intonation of the vivace is very soft and on top of it the tone is at once absorbed by the acoustics, which are not only dry there, but dead to say the least. The sensation is funny but very pleasing. The piano sounds like wrapped in a sheet of velvet. Despite the very soft and mellow intonation the "Bösendorfer- effect" isn't noticeable at all, each and every note is clearly distiguishable. The touch is heavy, but not unprecise at all.

The instruments really sings despite the dry acoustics, and the bass is very powerful, almost too much, and has a "dirty" characteristic. The tenor and treble sections are really mellow, dark and soft and have a "velvety" sensation to them. The Beethoven Sonata op. 27-1 is a pleasure, a little less so the Schubert Impromptus, because I still have to get used to the heavy touch. The 16th- accompainment of Op. 142 No. 1 is difficult to play pp, but after a while it starts to resemble my ideas, and the melody sings beautifully above the now acceptably p accompainment.

What I definitely miss with this particular one is the inability to play below "mezzopianissimo", as either I can't get it right because of the heavy action or the instrument just has too much power. Wasn't it for the heavy touch, at that point I felt this could be "the one"!

Then I changed downstairs to the Omega, which sits in a more lively environment, the actual showroom. It is voiced more concert- like, being more brillant than the Vivace. The touch is noticeably lighter than on the Vivace, and Mr. Jelemenski told me that it could be that the Omega has been played more often (it has been rented for 4-5 concerts) and the Vivace should get lighter after a while and that perhaps it needs a little regulation.

The Omega really oozes power, the tone, while voiced to be more brillant, is not completely different from the Vivace. The bass and the tenor sections are perhaps a little better balanced than on the Vivace, where the booming bass really stood out, but it could also be because of the acoustics. But while being lighter than the Vivace, the touch is still a little too heavy for my liking, although there's absolutely no precision issue whatsoever. Still, while being able to play more softly than on the Vivace, I just can not get a ppp out of it and I have big problems to keep the 16-th accompainment of Schubert op. 142 No. 1 even and soft. I really have to concentrate so heavily on playing softly and evenly that it becomes a pain.

But for compensation, the melody really sings in literal meaning and the Omega gave me a new experience: now I really understand what you people meant when you were saying that the tone evolves from pp (below is not possible ) to fff! It goes from a whisper to a really heroic fff.

Then, sitting right next to the Omega, Mr. Jelemensky had a rebuilt New York Steinway Model O from 1917 (could be wrong, as I didn't write it down at once). This is far and away the best Steinway I have ever played! The touch is light and really perfectly precise. The keys seem to be unevenly spaced, but then I realised that it was because the edges were rounded (maybe during restoration) and that has not been done evenly for all keys. However, it doesn't disturb the playing at all. All action parts are new as well as the pinblock, the pins and the strings.

The sound is gorgeous and now I understand what Steinway lovers love about them! The Schubert Impromptus sing like anything, as is Beethoven op. 27-1, the final two pages from "Les Adieux" are simply breathtaking! It has the subtlety I missed on the Sauters, while still being very powerful when needed. My impression is, and Mr. Jelemensky confirmed that by listening from different positions, that it isn't all that far away from the 220 cm Omega. The final measures from Rhapsody in Blue are simply booming out of those 180 cm. It had me thinking hard, when Mr. Jelemenski said that if I should decide for it, he'd keep it for me until my apartment was ready, but I came to the conclusion have to educate myself about buying such old pianos, and on top of that, I can't stop my search now that the fun has only begun He confirmed my impression by saying that this one is a particularly nice specimen, because otherwise he wouldn't have bought it; he said that he was just as taken aback by the qualities of this instrument as I was.

A really great trip, all in all! But I can't update the charts, because right now, in the midst of the first euphoria, this particular Steinway O would top them all and the Sauters have me torn in two: on the one I really like their tone, but the touch... the touch... if only they were lighter to play!!!

vippo and others ... this has to be the single most fascinating set of posts on the forum. I, for one, would be happy if you remained indecisive for some time to come. You have a unique opportunity (and ability!) to convey your impressions of tier 1 pianos that the rest of us have only heard of. I for one have always been curious about how the August Forsters stack up. I inherited my AF 145 from my grandmother, who bought it in Holland in the 1950s when I understand they were quite inexpensive. I had it rebuilt with Renner parts. AF no longer makes a baby grand like this (I think minimum is 170 ~ 5'8") but the design has not changed ... the bass has long strings and is incredibly rich and dark (at least for something that will fit into a Hong Kong apartment).

Keep going. I can't wait for pictures.

Vippo,
I can perfectly relate to your concerns about loving the tone of the Sauters, but finding the touch wayyyy too heavy! In fact, when comparing between the Shigeru SK-3 and Sauter Alpha, this was exactly the problem that I faced - I preferred the tone of the Sauter, but the touch of the Shigeru. It was a major factor that led me to delay my purchase for quite a few months

That being the case, should you really like the Sauter, one solution towards "perfection" might be to order one custom built from the factory, telling them your concerns about the touch, and asking to build from scratch a piano with a lighter action that takes into account these concerns. You can also explain to them the kind of tone that you prefer, the type of hammers you want, and the factory will go quite someway to accomodate your wishes. As I understand, from start to end, the whole process could take approximately 6 months.

The downside of such an approach may be the uncertainty that comes from buying sight unseen. As a first time buyer of Sauter, I did not yet have the confidence that the factory would be able to completely meet my requests, and therefore I ended up buying a ready made piano and made my modifications from there. From my own experience, the factory was amazingly sensitive to my concerns (especially regarding too much power, booming bass, heavy touch etc), such that when the piano finally arrived in Singapore , it sounded like a totally different piano from the one I had played in Spaichingen. Quite the opposite - it was clear, sparkling, light and responsive.

Based on my experience with the Delta, I will definitely have my Omega custom built when I make the jump. A lighter touch will be a must, and for home use, a slightly mellower tone may be better (might opt for softer hammers).

Must have sounded real purdy playin' all that fancy classical, but did it sound as good when you tried a lick or two of "Devil Went Down to Georgia?"

Just kidding. I am totally enjoying the thread too. It's like a description of wine and chocolate. And Vippo's excellent (and dirty and velvety too)! There's a little too much Bosendorfer bashing (good thing, because you can't afford one; that said, it's no surprise you're suddenly smitten with Steinway ). But sometimes I really have to chuckle when I read something like...

"...The Schubert Impromptus sing like anything, as is Beethoven op. 27-1, the final two pages from "Les Adieux" are simply breathtaking!"

When I hear something like that I have to put down my banjo, get my dentures from the jar, pick up my powdered wig and stockings and the shoes with the big buckles and make a total transformation to appreciate it. But I am able.

Seriously, this is my favorite thread. Vippo you have a gift. Keep it coming but with more pictures.

Wzkit, I already wanted to ask if you had disappeared after not reading a single post from you for about three weeks or so...

I remembered that you had your piano sort of custom built, but as the delta already is near my budget maximum, and the Omega is actually way beyond my financial pain threshold, having it customised could very well put the Delta out of reach. Could you PM me what you spent for the customisation of the already finished instrument, so that I can get at least a ballpark figure of what the cost might be? Thanks!

@westland & tluvva: thanks for the compliments, but it's enough of them, I'm starting to believe what you are saying

tluvva, I'm going to post the pics I took of the Vivace later this afternoon when I go to my office. however, I feel bad about the "Bösendorfer bashing", but I like everything about them except the fact that the notes just start to completely blur in faster passages. And that particular S&S would be exactly within budget and it's, as I said, the Steinway I liked best by a mile-wide margin.

vippo,

I must agree with what everyone has said about this thread; I have totally enjoyed hearing about your shopping experience. As a Bosendorfer owner, I do think you need your hearing checked . But I certainly don't feel you are "Bosendorfer bashing" or bashing any other piano.

Can't wait to hear what you ultimately do end up.

Derick

vippo:
the notes just start to completely blur in faster passages.[/b]

So play the notes with more precision and/or a little bit shorter! . The sustaining/resonant characteristics of a Bösendorfer can take some getting used to. I am sure that I used a great deal less right pedal when playing my home instrument than I do on many other pianos. However, far from being muddy or indistinct, on most Bösendorfers I've ever played, it has IMO been easier to achieve tonal clarity (especially in the tenor and bass ranges) during faster passages, when compared to other instruments.

-Michael B.

Vippo,
Have been extremely busy at work the past few weeks hence my only ocassional appearance around here. You can be rest assured however, that I am monitoring your thread with intense interest!

I have sent you a PM. As far as I know, custom building an instrument from scratch should not cost extra, if the finish is standard. The only true customization I had done on mine is converting the fallboard finish to burl walnut, from the standard ebony polish. The increase in cost was very slight, and well worth the extra money, IMHO. Then there's also the accelerated action, but that's not so much a customization per se, as it was an alternative version that was offered at the same price as the standard model. However, as far as I know, production of the accelelrated action has been discontinued. You might want to ask your deler or Ulrich Sauter about this.

Hellohello, thanks Wzkit for the tips and hints you offered here and in your PMs.

Michael, please don't post such remarks about my technique, as due to my issues with heavy actions, I am currently mired in a really bad inferiority complex, if such a thing exists for a pianist's technique .

And Derick, please don't try to expand the crisis to my hearing!!!

But the real reason for my new post is: I have yet another update, as today I happened to drive by two different, though somewhat distant piano dealers I had on my shortlist. The first one was the prototype of all prejudices against salespersons put together in one man. I won't post any judgements about the pianos, even though I did play one Schulze Pollmann, because it was definitely not in a condition to be judged fairly. Out of tune, really badly regulated action, sticky una corda pedal etc. etc.

So were his used antique Steinways, of which he said one was "completely reconditioned" and the other "needed no work": fair enough, both were bordering on being unplayable; keys rattling, on one key the ebony sheet started to peel off... absolutely disgusting!

Then, after a XXX (censored) km drive I came to Zin Strumenti Musicali in Padova, who are the local Steinway partner and also carry Petrof.

First I tried the Boston GP193 to give it another chance, but it was, as expected, not much different from the one I tried at Passadori. Not bad, but -to me- not really nice, either: heavy touch, action not precise enough for my taste, bass to preeminent.

Then he had a Steinway Mod. B, which I tried. I don't know if it was a case of the "one-eyed being king among blinds", but it was the nicest new Steinway I encountered this far. Although the action wasn't exactly light, it was without a doubt the most precise I found on a Steinway. No matter how delicate I wanted to play, the piano delivered. Just imagine my relief, when after thoroughly second- guessing my technique, I found out that given a 70+ k€ piano, I can play faster ppp passages on a slightly heavier action

Seriously though, it was really enjoyable, although I still felt as though the piano started yelling at me when tickled a little harder. Very, very nice, but for me not nice enough to dish out that kind of money (if I had it, that is...)

Then there was a used Schimmel 208, which was to forget. On top of a cracked soundboard, it was so mellowly voiced that it felt like a cloth was draped over the strings. The sustain was just like the volume: virtually nonexistant.

Then, there was a Petrof III with magnetic accelerated action (MAA). It was terribly out of tune (direct sunlight almost the whole day), but still had a very nice feel to it. The action is enjoyably light and very precise, although it definitely has a different feel compared to traditional actions. It was like you actually could feel the magnets snapping apart, but not disturbing.

I can't really say anything about the tone, as it was really badly out of tune, but it seemed that for the price tag it is indeed a real bargain. I will try to get back to the shop, as the owner vowed to tune it as soon as possible, and post further impressions then. It might be a really hot low- price candidate, though!

vippo wrote: And that particular S&S would be exactly within budget and it's, as I said, the Steinway I liked best by a mile-wide margin.

vippo, this is a great thread and I'm likewise getting so much enjoyment from it I'd like to see you keep going for many more weeks. But it sounds as though you were hit with the thunderbolt and are really in love with that O and it's within your budget. Do you really want to take the chance of losing it? It's a tough call as you may find something you like even better but it may not be in your budget guidelines. Can you get a tech to inspect the O for you so that you can feel more comfortable with buying a rebuild (or rejecting it)?

Ciao,
Sophia

sophia, I asked Mr. Jelemensky to contact me if somebody seems ever so remotely interested in "my" O. I feel that I'm not quite ready to make the step towards buying, as I am probably enjoying this testing journey way too much. Also, I'll get back a few times to play it again, and should it become clear that it IS the one, I'll certainly bring another tech with me, although I had a a really excellent first impression of Mr. Jelemensky.

Well, I'm in Vienna over Easter to visit my sister and her family, and for Tuesday I have scheduled some heavy piano testing... can't wait

In addition to the two dealerships I've already been to (Vienna Piano Team and Albin Förstl), I have discovered another dealer who carries Grotrian and where I'll be able to play another Concert 225... so imagine playing August Förster (although "only" the 190), Steingräber 205 AND Grotrian- Steinweg Concert 225 all in one day. And if there's some time left, I can stop by the Steinway house and compare some Bs and Cs, too... This must be heaven... no, wait, heaven must be *owning* all of them

Good luck, vippo! yes, my fantasy is having a house big enough for multiple music rooms with different fantastic pianos... but sounds like your trip is coming in a close second!

The Steinway O's I have played (new and old, including one completely rebuilt, new soundboard, etc, by the local authorised Steinway dealer and which a mutual friend bought for far too much money), have not impressed me that much: only from the A model upwards do Steinways seem to come into their own, to my ears. In my opinion, the best answer to the quest described in your signature line is made in Löbau and has the initials A and F and features the numbers 1, 9 and zero

-Michael B.

Vippo, in case you find yourself in Freiburg during your travels, I can recommend a visit to lepthien. I had the pleasure of being locked in to their grand-piano room (with key to let myself out), on my own with 30+ grand pianos to play. I felt like a kid in a sweet-shop. They are certainly not all up in the league that you are looking for, and I'm afraid that I didn't make a note of every piano that they have - but of possible interest to you could be 2 Grotrians (192 and I didn't get the size of the other, but certainly no smaller), an array of Steinways (of course), Kawai Shigeru, Bechstein, Schimmel, and the undoubted star of the show - a 2m 30 Bosendorfer, about 25 years old (hence affordable) which sounded just fantastic - and the power was such that I nearly blew myself off the piano stool when I got a bit carried away with some Beethoven.

Let me assure you, he's not interested. Mr. Vippo can't bring himself to like the Bosey because of some such prattle as clarity. The truth is he can't afford it and his playing technique is suspect!

Vippo,
I just played a Bechstein 6' 9" the other day (not a C. Bechstein) and was very impressed; one of those pianos that grows on you; you might consider giving them another shot. I passed over it quickly at first, but kept coming back to it. I compared them to Bluthners, Steinways, M&H, Estonia, Grotrian (incl. the Charis, not my cup of tea, at least not the one I tried; too "shimmery" in the treble), Forster, etc. The Bechstein had a wonderful balanced tone, very clear; easy to go ppp without the soft pedal, etc.; great for everything from Schubert to Debussy. Some of this may reflect the fact that it takes a while to really appreciate any of these pianos; our initial impressions can actually fool us sometimes (with the exception of the Fazioli - the "standard" of comparison I've applied to all the pianos I've tried thereafter). Good luck!

Dram,

so that would have been the Bechstein Academy series, if it only said Bechstein on the fall board.

To be honest, when I tried a range of sizes of the Bechstein Academy, I wasn't very impressed, there was something strange about the sound and feel to the instruments, which is hard to quantify. I found even the small C. Bechstein the shop had there to be of a different class (but then the different class also applies price wise, unfortunately).

I will most likely go the shop again this evening, mainly to play the C. Bechstein B (210 cm or thereabouts) - might play the corresponding Bechstein Academy as a comparison then.

Markus

Hi again, I've returned from Vienna yesterday, but I was too tired to post, so here we go:

I have tried a 39 years old Grotrian- Steinweg 185 and much to my surprise found it to be a very different piano from the "modern" Grotrian- Steinwegs. The bass lacked the "pluckyness" as Wzkit characterised it, and had a much less brillant tone than it's younger siblings. On top of that, it was voiced much more mellowly. Nice experience, but not really my dream piano.

Then I tried a new Grotrian Steinweg 225 Concerto, which had a very heavy touch. I really had serious trouble achieving beautiful pp without losing some notes along the way. The dealer told me that, while the piano was brand new and therefore the touch would get a little lighter with time, Grotrian Steinweg choses a heavier touch for it's larger pianos (225 and up), although I didn't notice it on the 225 I played at Jecklin in Zürich. Nonetheless the tone was marquee Grotrian Steinweg, while the bass on this specific piano was almost too strong in comparison to the treble.

Then I had to try a Fazioli F-183 in the next room, and the more I try those ugly beasts, the more I am convinced that for me those are without a doubt the best pianos money can buy (or can not, depending on what your bank says...)

The precision of the touch is simply unparalleled (I know, I'm getting boring) and the tone is even more elegant and sleek than the Grotrian- Steinweg's, which sounded more rustic and earthy to me, but that could also be because of the heavy action. To use less volatile terms, the Fazioli sound is clearer and sounds more refined to my ear, but is definitely not bright. The treble, starting in the middle of the tenor range, is of crystalline clarity, while the Grotrian Steinweg is darker, although just ever so slightly.

The bass of the Fazioli is also clearer than the Grotrian's, which sounds "dirtier".

*switches back into real life mode*

Then I tried my first Kawai over 180 cm. The RX-5 was fighting for a losing cause, because it is unfair to compare it to pianos twice it's price, but still... it had much less character to me, although I couldn't tell why. It was like playing the Shigeru III at Piano Hirsch in Munich, very good, but the good marks were coming from the head, not from the belly... maybe it's prejudice, but I can't help it.

The tone was by far the darkest of the four, with a really "spectacular" sounding, booming bass. I found the piano to be more suited for Chopin and later romantic repertoire than for Beethoven or Schubert. For my liking, that is. As I said, it is a nice piano, but I can't seem to fall in love with them Kawais.

Then I went to Förstl, where I first tried the August Förster 190. Back then, I found the AF 190 lacking power and thought it had a pronounced dynamic plateau above ff. Well, much to my surprise, quite the opposite was the case this time, prompting me to ask the dealer if the piano had been revoiced since then, which he denied. The touch is unfailingly precise (bordering on Fazioli) and I found it perfectly controllable.

After some practising, also the middle section of the Schubert Impromptus Op. 142 No. 1 came out fluid and light, the melody singing beautifully on all pieces I tried. I think that the treble is brighter than on the Fazioli and the Grotrian, but those two were in another shop, so it's difficult to compare. In the range from c below middle c the attack sound gets quite pronounced, while the full, round and dark bass has this wonderful "suddenly there" feeling I described earlier.

The sustain is more than satisfactory, so the "fear" which flared up when I played the AF 190 at a local dealer was unfounded. I will go back to play the AF190 in Brixen tomorrow evening.

The Bechstein Academy 190 in the same store just confirmed my preconception of them being very, very bright. They are way too bright for my taste, so I didn't play it for a long time.

My gut feeling right now is that, barring some revelation coming directly from Spaichingen and the Steinway Model O notwithstanding, the decision will be between Grotrian- Steinweg and August Förster, where the latter would win slightly because of financial considerations.

But, wait, what am I writing? No, no, it's way too early to decide and bring this wonderful journey to an end, it's simply too much fun

Ciao vippo,

My gut feeling... the decision will be between Grotrian- Steinweg and August Förster, where the latter would win slightly because of financial considerations.[/b]

What did I tell you a few days ago? :
In my opinion, the best answer to the quest described in your signature line is made in Löbau and has the initials A and F and features the numbers 1, 9 and zero

it's way too early to decide and bring this wonderful journey to an end,[/b]

But rememember that every day that you keep shopping and not buying, is one less day you'll have playing

-Michael B.

Well, actually only a few hours before reading your post exactly the same thing came to my mind... and when I played it yesterday, your post immediately crossed my mind

If I was to decide now, the Grotrian Charis would win by a hair (haven't tried the AF 215, though), but my bank account is strongly lobbying for the AF route.

Fortunately (or not, depends on how you want to put it...) I wouldn't have the space for the grand right now, as my future home is currently under construction, and it will be finished around Christmas time at the earliest.

You see, I have plenty of time left... and there's plenty of time for twists and turns, so although at the moment I'm leaning heavily towards Grotrian Steinweg and August Förster, nothing is set in stone yet.

I can fully sympathise with Vippo -- our house is ready, and the space is there, but there are a few other things which have priority over the grand piano (yes, I know - that sounds very strange), and the bank accounts need some time to recover before the next shock arrives.

Our house was supposed to be ready by Christmas 2005 and we only were able to move in August 2006 ... time becomes a very relative quantity when building.

But I think the anticipation of buying a grand and the knowledge of being able to check one's preferences over and over again is already worth a lot ...

Markus