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#2118131 - 07/15/13 05:57 PM Mozart Piano Sonata in F (seeking advice)
Yuuki Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/21/11
Posts: 36
Loc: Tokyo
https://soundcloud.com/user179750564/mozart-sonata-in-f-2013-07-16

A recording I made today.
Looking for criticism / advice.

Thanks for listening.
_________________________
Working on:
Mozart Piano sonata in F http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthrea...%20%28seek.html
Tchaikovsky "May" http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthrea...ing%20advic.htm

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#2118415 - 07/16/13 07:01 AM Re: Mozart Piano Sonata in F (seeking advice) [Re: Yuuki]
timmyab Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/15/08
Posts: 462
Loc: Bristol, UK
The most noticeable thing is that the tempo isn't even.You are playing the section that starts at bar 56, and the similar one later on, much faster than the rest of it.Actually I'd say you are playing this section at about the right tempo, the rest of the piece is dragging a bit.If the difficult bits are too challenging to play allegro then slow down the whole thing.The bar 56 section can be made to sound very convincing at a slower tempo.
A few days working with a metronome will make a big difference here.

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#2118625 - 07/16/13 04:34 PM Re: Mozart Piano Sonata in F (seeking advice) [Re: Yuuki]
Yuuki Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/21/11
Posts: 36
Loc: Tokyo
Thank you very much for the advice.
I'll work on that.


Edited by Yuuki (07/16/13 04:34 PM)
_________________________
Working on:
Mozart Piano sonata in F http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthrea...%20%28seek.html
Tchaikovsky "May" http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthrea...ing%20advic.htm

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#2118861 - 07/17/13 12:06 AM Re: Mozart Piano Sonata in F (seeking advice) [Re: Yuuki]
Arghhh Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/31/08
Posts: 1165
It's quite charming, and in general it is cleanly played. I have two suggestions for you. The first is to think a bit more about voicing. Listen to the opening passage, for example. I hear the accompaniment louder than the melody (it did seem better on the recap). Another place was at measure 12.

The second suggestion is to hold the notes at the ends of phrases/slurs a bit longer:
1) In mm 18-20 you have a series of pairs of quarter notes. The second of these sounds clipped or staccato, so if you're practicing with a metronome, don't release the second note of the pair until just before the metronome clicks for the next beat. This tendency is repeated at most of the two-note slurs.
2) At the end of the exposition (where the repeat marks are). You're playing these almost staccato, but we need to hear the note to give a strong finish to the section.

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#2119148 - 07/17/13 03:36 PM Re: Mozart Piano Sonata in F (seeking advice) [Re: Yuuki]
Louis Podesta Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/05/13
Posts: 760
As mentioned before, Mozart has to be even tempo, in order for it to make musical sense. First, I would set an electronic metronome at the tempo you are currently playing until you can get the tempo smooth and consistent throughout.

Then, once you get it even, speed it up, and soften the left hand a little. Your tempo is too slow.

There are parts of this that are surprisingly very good, so that shows me that you have an ear for this composer's music, which is far too rare. However, when you make sudden changes in tempo, it takes away from what you have done before.

By the way, Earl Wild played this Sonata his entire life, so it is considered by many to be major concert repertoire. Good luck to you.

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#2120422 - 07/20/13 04:47 AM Re: Mozart Piano Sonata in F (seeking advice) [Re: Louis Podesta]
Michael Sayers Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/13
Posts: 1230
Loc: Stockholms lšn, Sverige
Originally Posted By: Louis Podesta
As mentioned before, Mozart has to be even tempo, in order for it to make musical sense. First, I would set an electronic metronome at the tempo you are currently playing until you can get the tempo smooth and consistent throughout.

Then, once you get it even, speed it up, and soften the left hand a little. Your tempo is too slow.


Hi Louis,

We hear Mozart sonata movements at a consistent tempo but there isn't any reason it is has to be that way - to my ears it sounds like much of this is a recording of music which is being sight-read and that most of the unevenness is due to a need for practice, which is different than a subtle varying of tempo among sections based on the musical structure and to bring out the emotional contrasts.

I'll be interested to hear a later recording as the playing shows the mentioned affinity for Mozart.


M.

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#2121622 - 07/22/13 06:35 PM Re: Mozart Piano Sonata in F (seeking advice) [Re: Yuuki]
Yuuki Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/21/11
Posts: 36
Loc: Tokyo
Thank you for the advices.
Indeed, slurs and tempos are the problems I often have.
I somehow have this preconceptions that I have to "cut" at the end of slurs. I'm trying to fix this habit.
I also have a tendency to slow down at end of phrases and take too much liberty with tempo.
On the other hand, I was happily surprised to find music flowing more easily when I kept with the metronome.

Here's a newer version.

https://soundcloud.com/user179750564/mozart-sonata-in-f-2013-07-23
_________________________
Working on:
Mozart Piano sonata in F http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthrea...%20%28seek.html
Tchaikovsky "May" http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthrea...ing%20advic.htm

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#2121635 - 07/22/13 07:20 PM Re: Mozart Piano Sonata in F (seeking advice) [Re: Yuuki]
timmyab Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/15/08
Posts: 462
Loc: Bristol, UK
A big improvement.
I still notice a slight tendency to rush in places, but it's only a minor thing now.It'll probably be a good idea to run the metronome over it occasionally to insure that the piece doesn't gradually run out of shape again.
Once it's memorized and polished this is going to sound great.


Edited by timmyab (07/22/13 07:21 PM)

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#2121909 - 07/23/13 12:40 PM Re: Mozart Piano Sonata in F (seeking advice) [Re: Yuuki]
Louis Podesta Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/05/13
Posts: 760
I totally agree - there is a very big improvement. One thing I would add is a little pedal in certain sections in order to add some legato, and also some color.

The cembalo forte piano that Mozart played on had a pedal-like device which was played with the knee just like a steel guitar player does. And, any music teacher or musicologist who says that everyone who played on one of these instruments utilized this device, except Mozart, is just full of it.

No one is saying that you pedal like you do for Romantic music, but if you listen to Alicia de Larrocha, you will get the right idea.

However, "gehakt" is the word Beethoven told Czerny when it came to how Mozart played. That is German for the word "choppy." So, if you combine the two, you are all the way there.

Plus, you can even add a little arpeggiation in certain chord sections, if you want to. Horowitz did because Mozart did!

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#2122187 - 07/24/13 06:36 AM Re: Mozart Piano Sonata in F (seeking advice) [Re: Yuuki]
Jaak Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/30/11
Posts: 224
Loc: Tallinn, Estonia
Hi Yuuki,

This is the answer about the newer version.

The beginning is quite good. I would even consider more the melody line and make the motives and phrases more clear.
Find our exactly where do the phrases start and where they end and then play them very clearly.

Also the way how you start rests can be more precise (already for example in bar 5 left hand).

Also I would give a more certain role to left hand as accompaniment part and right hand as melody. That does not mean that left hand is less important of course. And the bass note in left hand is important and should also form a line.

From bar seven on you could play even more out the way how melody goes into left hand. And in these bars the polyphonic structure is extremely important.

And think about the slurs that Mozart uses in the piece. Slurs are one of the most important thing that reveals the musical thinking of the composer. They are never random.

Slurs both in right and left hand. They show how Mozart thought about musical motives and phrasing. The very good example for playing Mozart sonatas is always his string quartets. In string quartets the musical thinking forms a very good example. The voicing there is very clear and all the layeres of musical strucutre come out perfectly.

You tend to rush with left hand in every bar in bars 1,2,3,4. And you tend to rush mostly with two last notes. This is very human because you sub-consciously want to reach the starting of the next bar in time. I have seen no students who do not have
this tendency.

In bar 8 take your time and play the trill very clearly. It needs a very light and exact finger technique. And here pay attention that the polyphony remains at the same time. It seems not very logical in the beginning, but playing polyphonically helps to play technically a way better.

In bars 10,11,12 all the rests have a very different lenghth.

You put the accent on the third beat of bar 12 and also do so in other similar places. But if you want the music sound more natural, the "accent" if there is any at all, should be in the beginning of 13th bar. The third beat of bar 12 should be more like the pick-up bar for bar 13. This is similar to the conductors "Auftakt" which is musically an extremely important detail.

Generally - I like your performance. I really like working very precisely and in detail myself so that is why I brought out all these things. I am also used to working with my students.

I guess, you can also solve similar things in other places overall the piece.

Technically - even more flexibility from wrist and more precise fingers.

Polyphony helps you to divede finger and hand technique. The way you use your body for playing the instrument should always be musically reasoned (and that is usually so in your playing).

Best wishes,
Jaak

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#2122343 - 07/24/13 01:34 PM Re: Mozart Piano Sonata in F (seeking advice) [Re: Louis Podesta]
Michael Sayers Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/13
Posts: 1230
Loc: Stockholms lšn, Sverige
Hi Louis,

I think we have read all the same music books, letters, et c. !

The best thing for a pianist is to just get out there and DO IT with full freedom to surrender to the inner force and for him to not worry about what anyone thinks on it.

There is lots and lots of talk about the 19th century and earlier pianists, but very little decisive ACTION.

M.

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#2122344 - 07/24/13 01:35 PM Re: Mozart Piano Sonata in F (seeking advice) [Re: Yuuki]
Michael Sayers Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/13
Posts: 1230
Loc: Stockholms lšn, Sverige
Originally Posted By: Yuuki
Thank you for the advices.
Indeed, slurs and tempos are the problems I often have.
I somehow have this preconceptions that I have to "cut" at the end of slurs. I'm trying to fix this habit.
I also have a tendency to slow down at end of phrases and take too much liberty with tempo.
On the other hand, I was happily surprised to find music flowing more easily when I kept with the metronome.

Here's a newer version.

https://soundcloud.com/user179750564/mozart-sonata-in-f-2013-07-23


Very nice! Thanks for sharing it.

p.s. - I think your energy fades later in the 1st movement, I am sure you can hear this. Maybe it needs more practice, but also the inner drive and concentration must be sustained throughout.

M.

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#2126819 - 08/02/13 07:00 AM Re: Mozart Piano Sonata in F (seeking advice) [Re: Yuuki]
Yuuki Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/21/11
Posts: 36
Loc: Tokyo
Thanks for the advices. I'm sorry it took a while to reply.
Also, I can't post my progress on the piece yet.
My plan was to brush up the piece in a few days using the advice here and post a "final version".
It didn't go so smoothly, so I've decided to take a lay the piece down for a while.

Nonetheless, I realized the points given here apply not only to this piece but to all other pieces (especially not rushing on the last two notes and sustaining the last note in a slur), and am finding them very helpful.

Thanks again for everyone who posted here.
_________________________
Working on:
Mozart Piano sonata in F http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthrea...%20%28seek.html
Tchaikovsky "May" http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthrea...ing%20advic.htm

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