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#2119540 - 07/18/13 10:18 AM Looking to buy a Kawai
jsanfilippo5 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/18/13
Posts: 19
I am new to the forum - Hello!

I am also new to piano purchasing and not sure what I should expect in terms of price.

I went to a dealer last night and played a few pianos that I really liked. I was looking at the following pianos

new Kawai 508

used Boston 118

used Essex eup-116st

They all sounded great and played nice - just wondering on prices - Are we allowed to discuss pricing on this forum??? i know some forums you are not allowed to discuss dealer prices...

I am not sure if the sticker prices on these are fair or if I should be looking elsewhere.

Thanks in advance!

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#2119550 - 07/18/13 10:37 AM Re: Looking to buy a Kawai [Re: jsanfilippo5]
Plowboy Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/26/08
Posts: 2398
Loc: SoCal
What were you quoted?
_________________________
Gary

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#2119558 - 07/18/13 10:50 AM Re: Looking to buy a Kawai [Re: Plowboy]
jsanfilippo5 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/18/13
Posts: 19
Thanks for the response -


The Kawai 508 - $5000 + tax and $200 delivery. NEW

The Boston - $7400 + tax and $350 delivery

The Essex - $6500 + tax and $350 delivery

Thank in advance!!

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#2119571 - 07/18/13 11:18 AM Re: Looking to buy a Kawai [Re: jsanfilippo5]
panche23 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/28/07
Posts: 51
Loc: Arizona/Calif
jsanfilippo5:
Welcome to pianoworld. Hope you get as much use of this site as me.
Just wondering how old are the Boston and Essex you are considering?


LM////
Kawai owner///

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#2119572 - 07/18/13 11:20 AM Re: Looking to buy a Kawai [Re: panche23]
jsanfilippo5 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/18/13
Posts: 19
the boston was 2012 the essex was a 2011

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#2119647 - 07/18/13 01:30 PM Re: Looking to buy a Kawai [Re: jsanfilippo5]
Orz Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/21/13
Posts: 61
Originally Posted By: jsanfilippo5
the boston was 2012 the essex was a 2011


Is the boston 118e or 118s ? there is a huge difference

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#2119651 - 07/18/13 01:33 PM Re: Looking to buy a Kawai [Re: Orz]
jsanfilippo5 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/18/13
Posts: 19
its the 118s

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#2119652 - 07/18/13 01:34 PM Re: Looking to buy a Kawai [Re: jsanfilippo5]
Piano RX Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/09/13
Posts: 146
jsanfilippo5,

One of the first things I learned here was to reference Larry Fine's Pricebook and reviews. I am currently shopping for a grand and now consider the pricing as spot on. I find that dealers are usually quick to provide a 20% discount off the SMP quoted by Larry Fine. Actually, up on top of the page, you can plug in whatever discount % you like and it will adjust the price accordigly so you can instantly see what you should be paying. According to the guide, a new 508 (with 20% off smp) should be $4472 before tax and delivery. Have fun! Link is below...

http://www.pianobuyer.com/instructions.php

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#2119654 - 07/18/13 01:37 PM Re: Looking to buy a Kawai [Re: jsanfilippo5]
Orz Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/21/13
Posts: 61
Originally Posted By: jsanfilippo5
its the 118s


I dont know where you live but that seems to be a little high. A friend of mine bought his NEW in NY for $7300 + tax, free delivery.

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#2119661 - 07/18/13 01:46 PM Re: Looking to buy a Kawai [Re: Piano RX]
jsanfilippo5 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/18/13
Posts: 19
Thank you scrip

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#2119662 - 07/18/13 01:47 PM Re: Looking to buy a Kawai [Re: Orz]
jsanfilippo5 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/18/13
Posts: 19
I live in NY - Long Island to be exact. I know some things tend to be a little higher here..

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#2119669 - 07/18/13 02:10 PM Re: Looking to buy a Kawai [Re: jsanfilippo5]
jsanfilippo5 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/18/13
Posts: 19
I also happen to be one of the worst negotiaters in the world.. I would love to pick up one of these pianos - but I feel like I am at a used car delaershipp dealing with these people... They were trying to force me into leaving a deposit yesterday..

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#2119701 - 07/18/13 03:40 PM Re: Looking to buy a Kawai [Re: jsanfilippo5]
panche23 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/28/07
Posts: 51
Loc: Arizona/Calif
jsan: For less then a grand you can upgrade to the Kawai K2, better action in that one. I think the Boston and Kawai are made in Japan, the Essex in China, if that makes a difference.

Good luck in your search.
PS: take a friend with you to piano store, better if he/she plays
for their thoughts.

LM///

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#2119706 - 07/18/13 03:51 PM Re: Looking to buy a Kawai [Re: jsanfilippo5]
jsanfilippo5 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/18/13
Posts: 19
I dindt see the k2 there so - couldnt try it anyway..

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#2119708 - 07/18/13 03:56 PM Re: Looking to buy a Kawai [Re: jsanfilippo5]
Piano RX Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/09/13
Posts: 146
Originally Posted By: jsanfilippo5
I also happen to be one of the worst negotiaters in the world.. I would love to pick up one of these pianos - but I feel like I am at a used car delaershipp dealing with these people... They were trying to force me into leaving a deposit yesterday..


Don't let them intimidate you. You worked hard for your money I'm sure. Some sales people are like sharks or wolves, they will sense hesitation or weakenss and close in for the kill. eek

These days, unless something is a spectacular deal, pianos are not exactly flying off the showroom floors. I have been piano shopping for a couple of weeks now and I can't tell you how many times I was told that unless I left a deposit the piano would probably be gone when I returned. Perhaps, but the odds are in my favor. Every one of the pianos I first looked at are still sitting on the showroom floors. You may have to walk out and see if you get a phone call the next day.

This is an important decision. You may want to consider zeroing in on which one of the 3 you like the best and then concentate on negotiating that deal. What you like is most important. Which one "sings" to you? Zero in on that one. Trying to negotiate 3 different pianos is going to make you crazy. Of course, if you can't get a fair deal then you may have to pursue another course so it's always good to have a plan B.

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#2119712 - 07/18/13 04:01 PM Re: Looking to buy a Kawai [Re: Piano RX]
jsanfilippo5 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/18/13
Posts: 19
I am pretty much ready to buy the Kawai - just seems high in price compared to what I read on forums...

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#2119717 - 07/18/13 04:07 PM Re: Looking to buy a Kawai [Re: jsanfilippo5]
jsanfilippo5 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/18/13
Posts: 19
I prefered the sound on the boston - but It is a little out of my price range..

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#2119721 - 07/18/13 04:12 PM Re: Looking to buy a Kawai [Re: Piano RX]
SMHaley Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/06/13
Posts: 860
Loc: Seattle
I'd say shop around until you fall in love with one, and don't be afraid to ask how much work it has had (bring in a tech to vouch for that). I can remember looking at a Petrof 194 that I would have very much liked to have purchased with a bit of negotiating down. The sales staff was anxious to get it out the door and used the line "it may not be here tomorrow at such an affordable deal as this." Sadly it stayed on the floor until the dealer went out of business.
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#2119722 - 07/18/13 04:13 PM Re: Looking to buy a Kawai [Re: jsanfilippo5]
SMHaley Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/06/13
Posts: 860
Loc: Seattle
Originally Posted By: jsanfilippo5
I prefered the sound on the boston - but It is a little out of my price range..


Since the Boston is made by Kawai you can't go wrong with either. Tone can be altered to some degree.
_________________________
AA Music Arts 2001, BM 2005
Pipe Organ Builder
Chief Instrument Technician, Chancel Arts
Church Music Professional

Baldwin F 1960 (146256)
Zuckermann Flemish Single

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#2119724 - 07/18/13 04:15 PM Re: Looking to buy a Kawai [Re: jsanfilippo5]
jsanfilippo5 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/18/13
Posts: 19
How can the tone be altered? Just curious smile

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#2119726 - 07/18/13 04:19 PM Re: Looking to buy a Kawai [Re: jsanfilippo5]
Orz Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/21/13
Posts: 61
Originally Posted By: jsanfilippo5
How can the tone be altered? Just curious smile


Spending big amount of money to have a tech does big amount of work on it.

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#2119727 - 07/18/13 04:21 PM Re: Looking to buy a Kawai [Re: jsanfilippo5]
jsanfilippo5 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/18/13
Posts: 19
So kind of defeats the purpose of sticking with my budget in the first place.

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#2119729 - 07/18/13 04:32 PM Re: Looking to buy a Kawai [Re: jsanfilippo5]
SMHaley Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/06/13
Posts: 860
Loc: Seattle
Originally Posted By: jsanfilippo5
How can the tone be altered? Just curious smile


The hammers can be voiced. Either needled (voiced down) or hardened with various treatments (voiced up). In any case you want the instrument to fit the space (within its design limitations.) I doesn't defeat the purpose of a budget, but you will certainly want to be sure what ever piano you choose is well regulated, and voiced for an even tone. Tuning upon delivery should be expected.
_________________________
AA Music Arts 2001, BM 2005
Pipe Organ Builder
Chief Instrument Technician, Chancel Arts
Church Music Professional

Baldwin F 1960 (146256)
Zuckermann Flemish Single

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#2119730 - 07/18/13 04:34 PM Re: Looking to buy a Kawai [Re: Orz]
SMHaley Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/06/13
Posts: 860
Loc: Seattle
Originally Posted By: Orz
Originally Posted By: jsanfilippo5
How can the tone be altered? Just curious smile


Spending big amount of money to have a tech does big amount of work on it.


No... If the piano is in good shape it shouldn't need much. Perhaps an hour as part of a tuning/service visit. If anything more is needed I would select a different piano.
_________________________
AA Music Arts 2001, BM 2005
Pipe Organ Builder
Chief Instrument Technician, Chancel Arts
Church Music Professional

Baldwin F 1960 (146256)
Zuckermann Flemish Single

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#2119743 - 07/18/13 05:12 PM Re: Looking to buy a Kawai [Re: SMHaley]
Orz Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/21/13
Posts: 61
Originally Posted By: SMHaley
Originally Posted By: Orz
Originally Posted By: jsanfilippo5
How can the tone be altered? Just curious smile


Spending big amount of money to have a tech does big amount of work on it.


No... If the piano is in good shape it shouldn't need much. Perhaps an hour as part of a tuning/service visit. If anything more is needed I would select a different piano.


I think There is a big difference between "voice up/down" and "alter the tone"

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#2119766 - 07/18/13 06:22 PM Re: Looking to buy a Kawai [Re: panche23]
PianoWorksATL Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/19/09
Posts: 2772
Loc: Atlanta, GA
Originally Posted By: panche23
I think the Boston and Kawai are made in Japan, the Essex in China, if that makes a difference.
FWIW, those models from Kawai & Boston are made in Indonesia. In many ways, these instruments are comparable. The hammers chosen for the Boston are significantly different than on the others, and could be responsible for your general preference for its tone. It could be other things as variable as how recent is the tunings and room acoustics, too.
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#2119785 - 07/18/13 06:56 PM Re: Looking to buy a Kawai [Re: jsanfilippo5]
Piano RX Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/09/13
Posts: 146
Originally Posted By: jsanfilippo5
I am pretty much ready to buy the Kawai - just seems high in price compared to what I read on forums...


If the Kawai is the one you like, and I guess you do, since you say you are ready to buy it, then make the dealer an offer. Explain to them the you have researched prices on Piano Buyer and this is what you think it should cost. They will be very familiar with PB. If they agree you're done. If not, you have to make a decision. They may test you. Walk out. You can always go back. That's not the last one Kawai will make.

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#2119815 - 07/18/13 07:53 PM Re: Looking to buy a Kawai [Re: Orz]
SMHaley Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/06/13
Posts: 860
Loc: Seattle
Originally Posted By: Orz
Originally Posted By: SMHaley
Originally Posted By: Orz
Originally Posted By: jsanfilippo5
How can the tone be altered? Just curious smile


Spending big amount of money to have a tech does big amount of work on it.


No... If the piano is in good shape it shouldn't need much. Perhaps an hour as part of a tuning/service visit. If anything more is needed I would select a different piano.


I think There is a big difference between "voice up/down" and "alter the tone"


Mmm, depends on what else one is considering. Obviously it will still sound like a piano. If its a decent scale executed well with a responsive regulated action, then the biggest tonal change that can happen is all in the hammers. For example, a Yamaha would be a very different beast with cold pressed (softer) hammers, as opposed to their typical hot pressed hard as a rock that are factory spec.
_________________________
AA Music Arts 2001, BM 2005
Pipe Organ Builder
Chief Instrument Technician, Chancel Arts
Church Music Professional

Baldwin F 1960 (146256)
Zuckermann Flemish Single

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#2119843 - 07/18/13 08:54 PM Re: Looking to buy a Kawai [Re: jsanfilippo5]
jsanfilippo5 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/18/13
Posts: 19
So I went back to the store tonight - looked around some more and wouond up buying a piano. I bought a demo Kawai k2 - It was used for piano recital or something but still comes with the new warranty etc. NOt a mark on it - basically look unplayed. I got it for $4400 delivered. Based on the Larry fine guide - it looks like I got a good deal..

What a huge difference to the 508 I played.

Cant wait for it to come!!


Thanks for all the help!

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#2119844 - 07/18/13 08:58 PM Re: Looking to buy a Kawai [Re: jsanfilippo5]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7439
Loc: Rochester MN
You got a very good deal on a very nice piano.

Congratulations!
_________________________
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It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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