Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Digital Pianos - Electronic Pianos - Synths & Keyboards Digital Piano advice, $500-800 range

Obviously prices can vary a bit so that's a ballpark...basically here's my situation:

NOT a "pro" just looking for something that has the best combination of quality sound, bells/whistles and price. I do hope to use it to record an album at some point, though not in the immediate future, so the ability to have/create other instrumentation as well as sufficient polyphony, while not the only or necessarily most important feature, does matter.

I realize this is kinda vague but general opinions and experiences appreciated. For ex, some impressions on research I've done so far on brands, very generally:

Casio: very good sound, "action" OK, durability debatable?
Yamaha: I hear they can be kind of harsh on the higher end sound-wise-?
Kawai: extremely good sound, but might be out of my range
Roland: also great sound but some keypad issues and also pricey
Williams: kind of does everything pretty good but nothing great

etc and so on......

In that price only Casio and Korg if you want decent action.

Haha, brand generalizations. Good times. Each brand has different levels of products, some of which may defy the following, but here are my generalizations as an observer of the market (but with no claim of impartiality):

Casio has made low-end stuff for a long time. We used to always say bad things about their action and sound. They've been innovating a lot lately though. Both action and sound are getting better and they have introduced some real nice technological features. I think a lot of the positive feedback about their action has to do with the fact that it's good compared to their last iteration. Excellent bang for the buck, and always has been.

Yamaha has a huge portion of the market, so in some sense it's a standard. They tend to be the easiest to find and often the most affordable for a given quality. Their pianos now seem almost exactly like those of a decade ago or so. Good pianos, but not much innovation in recent years. I think they sound good and play well. In many ways they define expectations for digital pianos.

Kawai has been innovating a lot lately as well. There are a lot of fans of their actions around here. Soundwise they are always getting better. Personally I don't care for the Kawai sound, particularly in the older models. Love the action, though, and this is the brand I own. My view is that Kawais are more expensive than Yamahas but cheaper than Rolands. They used to be cheaper. The biggest problem with Kawai is that it can be hard to find a Kawai retailer near you.

Roland has put out higher end stuff for a long time. They have several actions, many of which are lighter than those of the above mentioned manufacturers. Great actions, though. Their PHAIII is very quick and responsive as opposed to the meaty and sometimes sluggish action you can find in other DP's. The flip side of that is that they tend to be a little harder hitting at the bottom. I wouldn't diss them. Very popular among gigging musicians and have an excellent longstanding reputation. They have made more innovations in sound than some other brands (SuperNatural) and we often discuss them as having an edge over other manufacturers in this area. My issue is that they tend to be expensive. There are no cheap Rolands.

Williams makes uber-low-end stuff. I have never played a Williams that was acceptable in any respect in my opinion. At every price point I've seen, Casio dominates them completely.

We used to have the big three manufacturers (Yamaha, Roland, Kawai) we discussed, but now it's Yamaha, Roland, Kawai, Casio. No one discusses Williams.

Your title indicates $500-$800 range. That gives you two options: Casio and Yamaha. The usual suspects are the Casio PX-150 or PX-350 and the Yamaha P-105 and if you can afford it, the Yamaha P-155. Reach just a little more and you get the Kawai EP3. Casio action doesn't vary by level. The Yamaha P105 has their cheaper action and the P155 has their more expensive (but not universally preferred) version.

Where did you find a Williams that does anything pretty good?
Shopping in the Twilight Zone?


You want a Casio.

Except for Gyro, of course:

Williams Overture

Scroll down in the thread above or just read the entire post, quoted here:

"I have an Overture that I bought sight-unseen online in 2009 for $600. The longer I play it, the better I like it. I've had an expensive acoustic upright in storage for many yrs. I bought it new in the early 1980's for about $6000, a huge sum for an upright in those days--a similar model today would be in the ~$20,000 price range. That upright is likely going to stay in storage forever, because I like the Overture better.

If it arrives at your house in the factory box, it's going to be very heavy, about 150 lbs. or more, and although one person can open it and assemble it, it would probably be better if you had another person to help, especially if you've never assembled anything this size before. The keyboard unit weighs about 80-90 lbs. and you'll have to lift in several feet in the air in order to place it on top of the stand assembly. This is an economy digital and so the fit and finish is a little rough in places, making assembly something of an adventure.

But it's a beauty when assembled. The pedals are highly polished brass. The felt trim is a bright red. The sliding key cover is very nice, equal to that on the best digitals. And the polished silver WW Williams medallion is very impressive, making the S&S logo look tacky by comparison. I'd recommend having a surge protector that you plug the adaptor into. Leave the on button on on the keyboard and use the surge protector to turn the piano on and off.

I like the Overture and use it to play anything, from jazz improv to big concertos. I feel no need to upgrade to anything in the future, as I find this adequate for any playing."

Edited by Gyro (07/04/11 03:44 PM)

Guys, why all of you always forgote bout Korg, which has SP170s and SP250 and SP280 pianos? I mean, in that price it's the real competitor and sound for me is much above Casio.

Why do we have to introduce Gyro's drug induced hallucinations into this?

Yes, Korg is a competitor. Definitely. Leave it to the OP to decide for himself. I always liked the SP250 keys. Klunky and heavy, yes. Just something that made them feel realistic.

In my research. Pay attention. PS never tried one, again just based on what I'm hearing out there. And I take any opinions with a grain of salt, but I'm not in a big enough area where all of these are in some store that I can try out so.....

Thx to all for the replies, any other info/etc appreciated.

Assuming you do want a piano-style weighted action, I think the only boards in your price range that have a wide variety of sounds and other bells-and-whistles are the Yamaha DGX-640 (soon to be replaced with DGX-650) and Casio PX-350. Of the two, if portability doesn't matter, I think I'd go for the Yamaha overall, even though I prefer Casio's action. But if you can stretch the budget, the Casio PX-5S is a lot more versatile than the PX-350, and is a better MIDI controller if you'll want to integrate sounds from a computer or iPad, for example.

First question:

. . . Does it matter how closely it approaches, in sound and
. . . action, an acoustic piano?

If "Yes", Casio PX-350 and Yamaha DGX640 (is there now a DGX650?) might be good bets. I don't know if the Korg SP-series has a good set of non-piano voices; if they do, add them to the list.

If "No" -- especially if you don't need 88 keys -- consider a "ROMpler" -- Korg Kross (available soon), or Yamaha MOX6 (there may be cheaper options), or Korg Krome (maybe outside your budget). Those usually have sequencers, EQ's, and other goodies for "song production".

The Casio PX-350 has a built-in 16-track MIDI recorder, but no sequencer and no EQ. The Casio PX5S does have a sequencer and EQ, but no loudspeakers -- so either you use headphones, or spend money for a speaker(s), or use whatever speakers you already have.

Your budget is tight, for what you want to do, but not impossible.

. Charles

PS -- bias -- I own a PX-350.

PPS --

Those three things trade-off against one another. There's no "best combination" -- you must decide how important each of the qualities (sound, bells/ whistles, price) is, _to you_.

Sorry to belabor the obvious.

Curious: what's the advantage you spoke of at the end ie better MIDI controller, ie specifically why is the 5S better that way?

?? Maybe I'm missing how you're using this term-?

I don't think there's any way you can tell a PX-350:

. . . Play this phrase,
. . . . . and keep playing it until I say 'stop'.

To me, that's the most fundamental action of a "sequencer".

I haven't looked at the PX5S specs in detail. But it allows things like 4-way splits of the keyboard, real-time control of MIDI parameters by front-panel knobs/sliders, and I'm pretty sure it _does_ have a sequencer.

Some of the lines between "synth", "workstation", "arranger piano" are getting fuzzy. The PX-350 is clearly _not_ a synth (not enough freedom to change the built-in tones). I haven't played with the built-in recording capabilities enough to see if it qualifies as a 'workstation'. It _does_ qualify as an "arranger keyboard"; you can dial-up a backing band (with horns and drums) very easily, and control harmonies with one or two left-hand fingers.

If you want to watch some videos, 'Piano Man Chuck' has several on the PX-350, including one on how to use the multi-track recorder to build up a song.

The speeding-up of PC's, and some inexpensive DAW (digital audio workstation) software, has made it practical to ignore the built-in "workstation" capabilities of keyboards, and do everything on the computer except actually playing the keys. I've never played in that world -- other people will know about the trade-offs.

This forum is strongly biased toward pianistic realism. For pop composing, there are other goals worth considering, and something like a MOX6 has a _lot_ of power.

. Charles

Doesn't that better describe an arpeggiator?

Having both pitch and mod wheels;

and assignable knobs and sliders that can be defined to control whatever MIDI parameter you want;

and the ability to define buttons that can call up whatever internal or external sounds you want, individually or in combination (split and/or layered);

and having both USB and standard 5-pin DIN connections for connecting other MIDI equipment.

(In case it's not clear, "external" sounds refers to using the keyboard to play sounds that are not built into the keyboard, i.e. those residing in a separate sound module, computer, iPad, etc.)

Korg SP-250

It does if you're playing modern pop/rock music!

An arpeggiator will normally step through the notes in a few chords, not a whole phrase made of several chords and perhaps a melody line.

Apologies if you stated one way or another, but considering used boards will open a lot more options in that range. I like to buy from guitar center used, you get 30 days to try it out and you can return to a local GC. I don't know if you live near a store.

Right now there is a Yamaha cp50 on there for 899, that seems like a good price if it's in good condition. If I was in a position to afford a board right now I wouldn't be telling you this Mox8s have been on there for 900 and up. Prices can vary wildly depending on the store.

As far as new ones, I liked the Casio px350 (iirc) and the px5s (though I don't like the white plastic). Both felt very nice. I also liked the Yamaha p105 I tried, I don't consider it a stage piano (they don't either) but the action was good. Felt better than the mox or p95, even though I'm told they are the same. That's the thing, either get used with a return policy or be able to try it out, as reading about actions is not like trying them. Then again, it's been said that you can adjust to anything and I think that's pretty accurate too. As you can see action is important to me, as much as sound.

Hmmm, I would classify the new Casio PX-X50 action to be "very good", rather than just "ok".

In any event, given your specifications and price range, I strongly urge you to try out either the Casio PX-350 (which has built-in speakers), or the Casio PX-5S (just a bit higher than your top price range). Both feature the same key action. In this price range, it is my humble opinion that no other manufacturer offers the quality and tone of Casio's new PX series. The Casio PX-5S is geared more for the gigging musician, and has a more bells and whistles than your typical digital piano.

In interests of full disclosure, I am a very happy, new owner of the Casio PX-850.

If you are not concerned about portability, and plan on playing and recording on your digital piano at home, than I wouldn't hesitate in recommending the PX-850. Nice looking, plays great, sounds great, and has a fantastic speaker system built right in. Note, the integral sound system in the PX-850 is more powerful and higher quality than a slab (portable) style DP...as would be expected.

The PX-5S has a phrase sequencer, not a traditional multi-track sequencer that you would find in a workstation. Phrases can be chained into songs, however. PX-5S also has an arpeggiator.

In addition to what was mentioned above, the PX-5S makes a better controller as it has assignable knobs and sliders for real time control over sound parameters.