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#2119298 - 07/17/13 09:04 PM Would you keep the student or want them to drop?
MaggieGirl Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/18/11
Posts: 493
Student cannot increase lesson time - they have a 30 minute lesson a week.

They are finishing Alfred 4 and learning 4-5 songs a week.

I just cannot pay more for piano. As it is, my daughter is dropping one sport. My daughter's goal with piano it to play music. She plays because she enjoys it and finds it relaxing. Her teacher is disappointed that my daughter's main focus is not music.

At this point, would you keep the student or find it too difficult to continue with them under the time constraints?

She said she would have to cut assignments back because there isn't enough time, they can only cover 3 pieces in 3 minutes. I totally understand that.

My daughter doesn't do any testing or competitions for piano, that isn't her.

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#2119316 - 07/17/13 09:41 PM Re: Would you keep the student or want them to drop? [Re: MaggieGirl]
malkin Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/18/09
Posts: 2754
Loc: *sigh* Salt Lake City
Originally Posted By: MaggieGirl

She said she would have to cut assignments back because there isn't enough time, they can only cover 3 pieces in 3 minutes. I totally understand that.


I think you must mean 3 pieces in 30 minutes, right?
_________________________
A good student is one who makes the teacher feel like a good teacher.

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#2119328 - 07/17/13 10:05 PM Re: Would you keep the student or want them to drop? [Re: MaggieGirl]
MaggieGirl Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/18/11
Posts: 493
Yes, 30 minutes. laugh

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#2119352 - 07/17/13 11:14 PM Re: Would you keep the student or want them to drop? [Re: MaggieGirl]
ymapazagain Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/15/11
Posts: 65
Loc: Hobart, Australia
Any students of mine who are entering exams or competitions get a 45 minute (or more) lesson. If the student wanted to stay at 30 minutes that would be fine, but on the understanding that it means no exams/comps. It sounds like that's what you want anyway so if I were the teacher I'd be fine with keeping your daughter on for 30 minutes.
_________________________
Private Piano and Vocal Teacher.

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#2119357 - 07/17/13 11:21 PM Re: Would you keep the student or want them to drop? [Re: MaggieGirl]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7777
Loc: New York City
I wouldn't drop the student, but I'd make sure the parent understood that the shorter lesson time meant slower progress, and possibly more disappointment and frustration.
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

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#2119364 - 07/17/13 11:47 PM Re: Would you keep the student or want them to drop? [Re: Polyphonist]
MaggieGirl Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/18/11
Posts: 493
Why would progress be slower? The students time isn't changing.

Really the only issue (to a parent who knows nothing about piano)is she can't cover the 5 pieces in 30 min. She is moving too quickly for the teacher to be able to review and teach.

I don't mind if she had fewer pieces that were challenging.

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#2119372 - 07/18/13 12:09 AM Re: Would you keep the student or want them to drop? [Re: MaggieGirl]
Peter K. Mose Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/06/12
Posts: 1382
Loc: Toronto, Ontario
Call me confused. Is the teacher threatening to drop your daughter, since you cannot afford 45-minute lessons? If so, then she is perhaps no longer the teacher best for you.
I'm assuming you already have an ongoing relationship with this teacher.

What normal piano teacher encourages students who enjoy the piano to quit?


Edited by Peter K. Mose (07/18/13 12:10 AM)

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#2119373 - 07/18/13 12:17 AM Re: Would you keep the student or want them to drop? [Re: MaggieGirl]
MaggieGirl Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/18/11
Posts: 493
She just seemed disappointed and unhappy when I said no. Then she went on about less pieces, less theory. I am concerned that she will have less interest in teaching a student who is not passionate about a bigger commitment to piano.

I don't want the teacher to put in more effort. I liked things the way they were before she talked to me.


Edited by MaggieGirl (07/18/13 12:18 AM)

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#2119374 - 07/18/13 12:29 AM Re: Would you keep the student or want them to drop? [Re: MaggieGirl]
Bobpickle Offline

Gold Supporter until July 10  2014


Registered: 05/24/12
Posts: 1383
Loc: Cameron Park, California
Originally Posted By: MaggieGirl
Why would progress be slower? The students time isn't changing.


Contrary to the belief of those who don't take lessons themselves, as well as many who do, sadly, piano lessons aren’t to learn to play pieces or even necessarily to acquire technique (though these are certainly indirect benefits). What they’re for is to learn how to learn to play piano - or in other words, to learn how to manage your time at home based on your goals so as to facilitate maximizing one's time, effort, and ultimately, progress (i.e. to learn how to practice). What lessons are for, or should be (at least for the beginner), is learning how to become independent so that one can, in effect, be their own teacher - else, what's keeping the student's success from always being reliant on another individual's instruction?


As far as lessons for the advanced student, these will typically consist of interpretive instruction as well as how to address and overcome the myriad technical difficulties found in the advanced piano literature.

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#2119383 - 07/18/13 12:47 AM Re: Would you keep the student or want them to drop? [Re: MaggieGirl]
MaggieGirl Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/18/11
Posts: 493
Well, I think until her teacher loses interest she will continue going to lessons.

My daughter has just signed a year commitment to a sports program. When that is up, we can re-evaluate her priorities.

The goal was never for her to become a professional musician. It was to learn how to read and play music for her own enjoyment. There is a lot of pressure on kids to have excellence in everything.

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#2119503 - 07/18/13 08:16 AM Re: Would you keep the student or want them to drop? [Re: Bobpickle]
Peter K. Mose Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/06/12
Posts: 1382
Loc: Toronto, Ontario
Originally Posted By: Bobpickle
, piano lessons aren’t to learn to play pieces or even necessarily to acquire technique....What lessons are for, or should be (at least for the beginner), is learning how to become independent


Splendid reminder, Bob. We all get enmired in the business of "knocking off" one piece after another. It all becomes almost silly without the big picture. Yet we often forget the big picture. Happens to me, too.

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#2119508 - 07/18/13 08:22 AM Re: Would you keep the student or want them to drop? [Re: MaggieGirl]
Peter K. Mose Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/06/12
Posts: 1382
Loc: Toronto, Ontario
Just to continue the conversation, I will tell Maggie and others that I do not teach 30-minute lessons, since I find them too short. They remain very common in piano teaching, however. My advice would be to switch to another piano teacher whose 45-minute lessons you *can* afford. I imagine your present teacher will indeed become less committed to your daughter, from what you have described.

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#2119559 - 07/18/13 10:51 AM Re: Would you keep the student or want them to drop? [Re: MaggieGirl]
Chris H. Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/05
Posts: 2919
Loc: UK.
Progress would slow because there is not time to cover everything in a 30 minute lesson. If a piece is only reviewed every other week then it will probably take longer to complete.

I teach quite a few 30 minute lessons because parents simply can't afford to pay for extra time. It is a short lesson and as students advance its not always possible to cover everything you want to. With those working on longer and more complicated pieces I might only assign three pieces and try to cover two of those and rotate. Sometimes it's only possible to cover one. So yes, things take longer but if the parent and student are okay with that then I don't see a problem.
_________________________
Pianist and piano teacher.

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#2119575 - 07/18/13 11:27 AM Re: Would you keep the student or want them to drop? [Re: MaggieGirl]
AZNpiano Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/07
Posts: 5593
Loc: Orange County, CA
I would keep the student, on the condition that he/she learns just one piece per week and no theory. I see the direct result of kids who are taking 30-minute lessons for years on end. They don't get very far, but if there's no pressure to get far and piano is done for fun, then we can all agree to make it that way.
_________________________
Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member

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#2119637 - 07/18/13 01:10 PM Re: Would you keep the student or want them to drop? [Re: MaggieGirl]
childofparadise2002 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/13/04
Posts: 542
The teacher's request may not have anything to do with whether a kid wants to be a professional musician. Very few kids who take piano lessons at a young age will become professional musicians----even though who put a lot of time in piano. But the lesson time does usually increase because there is simply more stuff to teach, this is true regardless of a kid's career aspirations. Whether your daughter's teacher will drop her... you can probably get an idea by finding out about her other students, whether they all give piano a higher priority. If most of them do, then either the teacher is able to convince them all, or she did her selections.

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#2120574 - 07/20/13 02:23 PM Re: Would you keep the student or want them to drop? [Re: MaggieGirl]
ezpiano.org Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/10/11
Posts: 1027
Loc: Irvine, CA
Originally Posted By: ChildofParadise
But the lesson time does usually increase because there is simply more stuff to teach, this is true regardless of a kid's career aspirations.


I agree with you a lot.
When new fresh beginner sign up with me, I usually teach only 30 minutes. Then after each year, I ask then to increase 10 minutes. After three years, they should have one hour of piano lesson. I asked them to increase regardless of they want to do CM test, or no CM test, play piano just for fun, or aspire to be professionals....etc...

Usually parents' reaction would be...
1. Yes, let's increase and pay more in tuition
2. No, I like to keep the same way it was

In case of reaction 1, all parties are winners
In case of reaction 2, I will explain that we do need more time to go over more material, if that is the case, parents would expect to see decrease in material being taught in 30 minutes because songs are now simply longer.

In my studio, parents has the ultimate choice of choosing how long the lesson should be, but they are also fully aware of the benefit of longer lesson and consequences of shorter lesson for higher level.
_________________________
http://ezpiano.org
Piano lessons in Irvine, CA
Watch the introduction video on YouTube
@ http://bit.ly/Ready123

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#2120589 - 07/20/13 03:54 PM Re: Would you keep the student or want them to drop? [Re: MaggieGirl]
musicpassion Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/30/12
Posts: 1153
Loc: California, USA
I would keep the student and enjoy teaching a motivated student.

Not all parents can afford longer lessons. But it is frustrating when a parent comes to each lesson driving a new BMW, travels to exotic locations every summer, and lives in a huge house - and then says they can't afford 45 min, let alone hour lesson. Well of course you can't - you spent too much on the car, the house, and the yacht.

And these are very different priorities than almost all music teachers have. So it can be difficult to understand how a parent makes those priority decisions. I'm not saying I believe this to be the financial picture for the OP. Just explaining this is something we often see as teachers.

It is much harder work for the teacher to work with an advanced student (or intermediate) with insufficient time. But I certainly wouldn't ask the student to slow down their learning. What kind of sense does that make?
_________________________
Pianist and Piano Teacher

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#2120718 - 07/20/13 09:19 PM Re: Would you keep the student or want them to drop? [Re: musicpassion]
AZNpiano Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/07
Posts: 5593
Loc: Orange County, CA
Originally Posted By: musicpassion
It is much harder work for the teacher to work with an advanced student (or intermediate) with insufficient time. But I certainly wouldn't ask the student to slow down their learning. What kind of sense does that make?

That's a catch-22, isn't it?

Of course no teacher would want to slow down the learning of a well-motivated student, but if the lesson is stuck at the 30-minute level, there's only so much that can be accomplished, unless the teacher is willing to let the quality of the pieces slide.
_________________________
Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member

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#2120735 - 07/20/13 09:46 PM Re: Would you keep the student or want them to drop? [Re: MaggieGirl]
MaggieGirl Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/18/11
Posts: 493
It's disheartening for my daughter to be told she will get less work, she is the kind of person who enjoys being challenged. I have a call into a friend who has a teacher at about the same rate with 45 minute lessons (only lessons would be at my house which isn't ideal). We will wait until summer is over and try it out.

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#2120741 - 07/20/13 09:54 PM Re: Would you keep the student or want them to drop? [Re: MaggieGirl]
PianoStudent88 Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/16/11
Posts: 3206
Loc: Maine
What use is it for the teacher to give the same number of pieces as at lower levels, if they can't reasonably be taught in the lesson time available?

It seems your daughter would be getting the same amount of work: work that can be covered in 30 minutes of lesson. As pieces get longer or more complex, that will translate to fewer pieces.
_________________________
Ebaug(maj7)

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#2120820 - 07/21/13 12:40 AM Re: Would you keep the student or want them to drop? [Re: MaggieGirl]
MaggieGirl Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/18/11
Posts: 493
As pieces get longer or more complex, that will translate to fewer pieces.

Because she said she would have to focus only on the Alfred lesson book (short pieces) and a recital piece (?because of the studio policy?) so no longer pieces.

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#2120822 - 07/21/13 12:54 AM Re: Would you keep the student or want them to drop? [Re: MaggieGirl]
PianoStudent88 Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/16/11
Posts: 3206
Loc: Maine
OK, now I see. I can see the approach there of dinner before dessert, but I wonder if another approach could be to alternate: Alfred lesson book (short pieces) until a certain level is reached, and then work on a longer piece (for a long time) instead of the Alfred lesson book, staying at the same level, and then go back to working towards a new level in the Alfred lesson book.

That might feel demotivating though, to only be working on one long piece and one recital piece for a long period of time.

I wonder if your daughter's teacher is trying to figure out how to keep your daughter progressing in skill in the limited amount of lesson time, and reducing the focus to lesson book and recital piece is how she feels is the best way to do it. As opposed to spending much longer at a given level by taking time to work on a longer piece before progressing a level.

It sounds like the teacher does not want to assign pieces that she won't cover with your daughter each week in lessons. (If she were willing to do that, then your daughter perhaps could keep all of lesson book, recital piece, and longer piece, and rotate which ones are worked on at a given lesson -- but since the teacher didn't offer that, I'm assuming she doesn't think that's a good approach, but you know what they say about ASS-U-ME.)

Do you feel like any of this is something you can discuss with your daughter's teacher?

I hope you can find a solution, whether with this teacher or another, that works for your daughter.
_________________________
Ebaug(maj7)

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#2120823 - 07/21/13 01:00 AM Re: Would you keep the student or want them to drop? [Re: MaggieGirl]
MaggieGirl Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/18/11
Posts: 493
Yes, I need to sit down and talk with her. The approach was poor - she brought this up in front of my daughter and assumed I'd increase her time. I had to say no due to finances and then on the way home explain to my daughter that something has to give - she can't do everything, it's not possible. I'm not poor or rich, I'm the lower middle class and already make a lot of sacrifices of time and money. The week before she dropped a sport to focus on one sport and to continue piano. This conversation was a surprise and poorly timed. I am sorting thoughts and opinions here first.


Edited by MaggieGirl (07/21/13 01:01 AM)

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#2121259 - 07/21/13 09:46 PM Re: Would you keep the student or want them to drop? [Re: MaggieGirl]
kck Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/04/10
Posts: 269
I don't think you should feel at all bad about bringing up finances as an issue. I had a similar circumstance. My kid is interested in auditions/competitions/performance though. Anyway, about 2 years ago our teacher wanted us to go from 45 minutes to an hour for lesson. My kid was 10 and I was looking at like 9 more years of lessons if he wanted to continue through high school and he goes to a $$$ music school. I said no, sorry we can't afford it right now.

We stayed at 45 minutes for the following year, but the teacher found us some scholarships to audition for. We were able to get a scholarship the following year and we moved up about a year ago. I personally think a good teacher should look for solutions and work with where you're at instead of getting cranky about it. Maybe look at teachers that are more comfortable with casual students. I also think it's pretty rude to bring it up in front of your daughter.
_________________________
Amateur musician, piano and violin parent

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#2121345 - 07/22/13 02:37 AM Re: Would you keep the student or want them to drop? [Re: MaggieGirl]
ezpiano.org Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/10/11
Posts: 1027
Loc: Irvine, CA
Quote:
I also think it's pretty rude to bring it up in front of your daughter.


This is a good point. I always tell my parents that please do not discuss any business related issues during lesson time especially in front of kids. Things such as to schedule a make up lesson, concern about tuition fee, increase of lesson time, not happy with new policy, concerns about student's behaviors during lesson time....etc.....should be discuss in emails or if serious, at a separate parent/teacher conference without kids.

Some sensitive issues is better not to discuss in front of kids because it will leave negative effect.
_________________________
http://ezpiano.org
Piano lessons in Irvine, CA
Watch the introduction video on YouTube
@ http://bit.ly/Ready123

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#2121408 - 07/22/13 08:07 AM Re: Would you keep the student or want them to drop? [Re: ymapazagain]
adultpianist Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/12
Posts: 540
Originally Posted By: ymapazagain
Any students of mine who are entering exams or competitions get a 45 minute (or more) lesson. If the student wanted to stay at 30 minutes that would be fine, but on the understanding that it means no exams/comps. It sounds like that's what you want anyway so if I were the teacher I'd be fine with keeping your daughter on for 30 minutes.


I have taken 3 exams and will take a fourth one. I have only ever had a 30 minute lesson. The only time I had a 45 minute lesson was when the student after me was not coming so we had extra time to go over something.


Edited by adultpianist (07/22/13 08:09 AM)

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#2122011 - 07/23/13 05:40 PM Re: Would you keep the student or want them to drop? [Re: MaggieGirl]
carrie32 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/15/13
Posts: 4
Loc: Banned
I wouldn't drop the college student, but I'd make sure the mother or father recognized that the smaller session time intended more slowly improvement, and possibly more disappointment and disappointment.
_________________________
Carrie

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#2127388 - 08/03/13 10:22 AM Re: Would you keep the student or want them to drop? [Re: MaggieGirl]
kissyana Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/12/07
Posts: 199
Loc: Northeast Illinois
To keep or drop a student who enjoys playing piano? I vote keep!

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#2127389 - 08/03/13 10:37 AM Re: Would you keep the student or want them to drop? [Re: MaggieGirl]
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 12216
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted By: MaggieGirl
Student cannot increase lesson time - they have a 30 minute lesson a week.

They are finishing Alfred 4 and learning 4-5 songs a week.

I just cannot pay more for piano. As it is, my daughter is dropping one sport. My daughter's goal with piano it to play music. She plays because she enjoys it and finds it relaxing. Her teacher is disappointed that my daughter's main focus is not music.

At this point, would you keep the student or find it too difficult to continue with them under the time constraints?

She said she would have to cut assignments back because there isn't enough time, they can only cover 3 pieces in 3 minutes. I totally understand that.

My daughter doesn't do any testing or competitions for piano, that isn't her.

I would totally not drop this student!! I think that would be awful to do, but not every teacher feels the same way I do. I will be increasing all of my students this semester to 45 minutes, but if I had a student who had been with me for a while and loved her lessons and practiced, I would try to make the 30 minutes work. It just means the parent has to be a bit more involved I think to assist with practicing and making sure that efficient work is being done at home. Perhaps I would have the parent sit in on lessons or come at the last 5 minutes to go over the specific instructions on how to practice since I wouldn't have the time during the lesson to actually do all of that work with the student.
_________________________
private piano/voice teacher - full time
MTNA member
www.valeoconservatory.com
Petrof 9'2 Concert, Yamaha G3, Roland FP-7, Yamaha MOX6, Kawai MP11

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#2127396 - 08/03/13 10:52 AM Re: Would you keep the student or want them to drop? [Re: MaggieGirl]
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 12216
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted By: MaggieGirl
As pieces get longer or more complex, that will translate to fewer pieces.

Because she said she would have to focus only on the Alfred lesson book (short pieces) and a recital piece (?because of the studio policy?) so no longer pieces.
I don't understand this rationale. Perhaps she is just trying to convince you to make the 45 minutes work out. If a student is practicing well, she can come to the lesson and say "I'm having trouble in m.5-8 of this piece" and we can work on figuring that out. She could pick out only the difficult parts in pieces that we could address. This is very doable and I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work as long as the student came with specific issues that needed addressing. This is a bit more mature of an approach for a young pianist, but I think with help from a parent is can work without reducing the progress. You just may not have time to touch on every piece each week.
_________________________
private piano/voice teacher - full time
MTNA member
www.valeoconservatory.com
Petrof 9'2 Concert, Yamaha G3, Roland FP-7, Yamaha MOX6, Kawai MP11

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