Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Teachers Forum What to do about student posting on youtube

I started teaching a new student last year. After a recital last year, he posted himself on youtube playing three pieces he learned from me. He was thrilled with me and his pieces. However, he doesn't sound that great on the video since I had only begun working with him. In addition, my image is on the video and I look like a klutz behind him (I was sitting there to prepare for duets with young students). Finally, one piece I arranged and wish to publish someday.

The video has only now come to my attention. I want to ask the parent to remove it from youtube. However, I feel it may break the student's spirit and their interest in studying with me. What should I do? I feel I look like a lousy teacher based on his playing and I'm also worried about somebody stealing my arrangement.

I think you would be wise to let this one go.

Amateur performance is the whole point of youtube, so I don't think you'll be judged by this student.

And I don't think he'll get enough hits to make stealing your arrangement a real risk. This is vanity press at its most basic.

Perhaps he even deserves praise for having the interest and nerve to put his playing out there.

You might want to mention to your students that they should check with you before posting copyrighted material, that way you could suggest they not use your arrengement if it comes up.

On the other hand, it's free advertising for your composing skills as well.

Oh - sounds fun. Link please? Just kidding, but I hope it helps lighten the mood.

Anyway, I would ask the student/parent to remove the video, but purely on the basis of your appearance in the video. Don't talk about his playing or he might feel he's "not good enough", and that could stay with him.

You could simply explain that you don't want to have videos of you on youtube. People should understand your desire for privacy. You could also talk about the piece you arranged and your desire for potential pubication.

Regarding this piece, you have every right to ask them to withdraw it -- assuming that they had been aware of your rights to the music.

For the others, unless you have a pre-defined policy about posting videos from your recitals, just let it go. This shows the pride your student takes in his/her performance.

You might ask that your name not appear on this YouTube video. Otherwise I'm with Tim entirely.

Are you people brain dead? Or just ignorant? The rights to the performance of that video legally vest in the performer. No one else.

The teacher (who is that) has no rights over this video whatsoever. If you don't want them to use your name, you have the rights over your own name. Tell them to take your name off any mention of that video, if you don't want it broadcast! That's all you can do!!! Make them sign an agreement with you before you start lessons!

Do you people ever even talk to lawyers, like other business people??!

Spend $250, and talk to a (good) lawyer to find out what our rights actually are!

I would be shocked to be asked to take the video down. It was a recital and I am guessing no parents were told not to film? They are just proud of their kid.

I would let it go.

+1.

. Charles

I would ask the student to remove your name from the video. Such videos will get something like 400 views in five years, so you're pretty much safe in a world flooded by Youtube videos.

first of all you are being insulting for no reason.

Secondly, since there's a work of music that was arranged by candywoman, which actually IS her intellectual property.

Thirdly, actually posting a video of someone (the teacher) without permission IS on the edge of being illegal. Otherwise I'll come over while you're bathing and start posting it in youtube, right?

Fourthly, if the music that the student IS actually copyrighted, this means that the student has no right posting it on youtube, in the first place!

So get your facts right, tone down, relax and try posting in a helpful manner rather than like this.

Do you ever come here for any reason other that to brag about how wonderful you are as a teacher or to totally trash someone in this group?

Youtube has three settings, two of them being private. Public is the default, and then the whole world sees it. One option could be for you to ask them to turn it to a private setting, and then share it only with family and friends. That would be like inviting them to come to the recital, which is more normal. I also noticed that Youtube has an option of blurring faces, so your face could be blurred out, as well as your name removed.

As other options for this horse that got out of the stable.

There is also an opposite situation where teachers want to show their students in order to show the quality of their teaching, or show examples on their web-sites where they advertise. Here you must first ask permission of students or their parents or guardians.

I'm thinking that in this era of the Internet, new studio policies have to be put in place.

Hey, I know a kid whose piano vids have over 700K views.

But seriously, the likelihood that CW's reputation in the community will suffer from this is quite low. On the other hand, she would be well within her rights to ask the student's family to pull (or edit) videos that have her in view or that use her own copyrighted work. A better and longer-run solution is to draft a set of suggestions or policies for her studio that include dos and don'ts of posting material online.

That's a good idea. Youtube is part of the culture of the younger crowd, along with a lot of other social media I am clueless about, like facebook, twister, etc. To a child it's been here forever.

But it is fairly new to the piano teaching world. New technology always involves figuring out how to incorporate it.

Youtube is an incredible resource, there are probably all sorts of ways to use it we haven't figured out yet. If we encourage kids to listen to music on it, we are encouraging them to post, and that's probably a good thing.

I think the only one that you have any basis for asking him to remove would be the one that you arranged. But really? I think you should have better things to do with your time. I missed the part where you said your name was included in it, but if so, then you could ask that that be removed.

Without a policy stated before hand, probably is too late to do anything about this video. But, it is never too late yet!! You can always craft a new policy to include for your new year from September 2013!!

Actually, no I don't. But if one doesn't behave like a real business person, then the legal protections other businesses enjoy will not be available to you. I'm always surprised and saddened when somebody who runs a business doesn't act that way. Perhaps I was a little harsh in my post, but it is not funny when you lose your legal rights out of ignorance, when you could have protected them.

Candywoman, if you really want to protect your rights to that arrangement you put together, you should file a copyright application with the U.S. Trademark and Copyright Office for it. It's not too late to do so and still protect your ownership of any copies. You fill out a form, send in two fair copies, and a check for the very modest fee, if you haven't already. If you make any further changes to it, file new applications as the work evolves.

If you want to protect your rights to the performance of such a work, join ASCAP or BMI and file the work with them. You have to be a member in order to protect or control the performance of any of your original work, and get royalties or performance fees. If you don't, your work is unprotected in regards to its live performance or recording.

As far as that video goes, if both the student (performer) is in view and yourself, then you don't have much standing to ask them to take it down without a quid pro quo.

Also, if they took the video with their own camera, you have no rights to the physical recording or digital file at all, only to your performance in it.

I meant what I said. If you really have concerns in this area, go see a good lawyers so you won't make any more mistakes with your own artwork. Or at the least, get the Nolo Press nook on music law and follow its advice.

I'm sure you don't look as bad as you think you do in the clip. Nobody'll see that video in a few months anyway.

Laguna Greg, are you a lawyer? And if so are you registered world wide to provide advice? otherwise it would be wise to add something like "I'm not a lawyer and my advice cannot be held as responsible for any actions taken", etc...

So... now to your advice.

I don't think you're wrong, but you're over reacting, once more, for something that's quite simple. Plus you're leaving quite a few gaps about many things that you say...

The registration to the copyrights office (www.copyright.gov) is necessary if you're actually serious about your work. But legally speaking it's not necessary to register a work. The work is already copyrighted according to the Berne Convention with the appearance to a tangible means! (this means that you cannot copyright a music idea (a theme) that you have in your head, but you can copyright it, if you write it down into paper, or a recording, or a midi file, etc. As long as there's enough "skill" and "originality" to that.

Now, an arrangement is a little weak to begin with, but you can copyright your creative part in that work (the arrangement).

BUT, to be fair, while copyright is automatic (check the above), the enforcing part is much more difficult and this is where the copyright office of the USA comes into play. This applies ONLY to US courts, but any copyright infringement is an issue to a Federal court and not a State court. And no federal court will accept a copyright claim without the work being registered through the copyright office.

Again, not quite clear.

Yes, ASCAP, BMI and any other PRO (Performing Rights Organization, like SAGEM, GEMA, AEPI, STIM (to name a few)) will cash in the money to the writer and the publisher of a work performed live, or recorded, etc, but it doesn't "protect" it, if you mean it as in "Do NOT perform the work". The copyrights is enough to stop someone from performing your work (though it sucks to do so)...

I have been dealing with getting a license to use an arrangement of a work by Prokofiev (there's actually a thread about this somewhere here), and ultimately I had to reach out to the copyright holders (publishing house) as well as the Prokofiev Estate (ethical part, if you want to call it that).

Same goes for a composer of EMF, who's done a set of 32 variations on a theme of Theodorakis (well known Greek composer...). I had to grab a license from Theodorakis himself not AEPI (the local PRO).

Also, one should note that PROs have very little deal with the Internet in general. Youtube, Shazam, pandora, Last.fm, etc do NOT provide royalties! (sadly)... They do provide an option to monetize your videos (as youtube says), but it's got nothing to do with PROs! Same, actually, goes for computer games! I've never ever gained a single dime from royalties from computer games. I have gained % from sales, but that was in the contract and no PRO was there to help me gather that.

I'm not a lawyer, but that's my understanding of things!

_____________________________

Now to the issue in question.

Candywoman. It is like most say: It's no biggie and the video will disappear from the radar very soon. It's a little unfortunate that the parents decided to post the video. I think that if I was in their shoes I would've asked the teacher first.

But since it's done, it's done. You can ask them nicely (what Leguna Greg says pretty much) and you can draft some kind of rules, or add them to your existing agreement, to make sure that the parents and students know about this.

Other than that, I'd be quite curious to see it myself!

Thanks everybody for the help. I'm leaning towards asking them to take down the one of my arrangement when I sign them up for lessons in August.
I won't be sitting where a video can capture me anymore. I'll be asking the parents not to video me or anybody else without permission.

Oh Nik,

"Laguna Greg, are you a lawyer? And if so are you registered world wide to provide advice? "

I think that's a case of the pot telling the kettle not to boil water. Did you put any such caveats on your own advice, considering you gave almost exactly the same advice as I did?

Candy, if you are not serious about this arrangement, then you don't need to follow anybody's advice here, and you don't need to take any precautions. What I'm suggesting will cost a couple of dollars, and take up some valuable time.

But the last thing I would want to see is that somebody heard your arrangement on Youtube, liked it, made their own "version" of it (or "borrowed" it wholesale), and then published it before you did. In that case, even with the available documentation, authorship would be very hard to prove unless you filed a copyright application timely.

To bring things down to a more practical level, all we're talking about is domestic publication and the laws that govern that here in the US or Canada. Nik can have the "world" to himself if he wants it.

Intellectual property laws here in the US give authors a very narrow range of protection, and only if they actively pursue it. If you plan to publish at all, you might as well take advantage of the protections you have.

Best of luck to you!