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#2123936 - 07/27/13 07:27 PM It's another improvisation I'm afraid
FSO Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/03/12
Posts: 854
Loc: UK, Brighton
My question is not "is this good", but rather if there's any point continuing doing what I do. Um...as with all music the true impression isn't garnered without listening to the whole thing but...well, um, if you follow the link you'll see why I don't expect *anyone* to do that laugh http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=bOodbJ1Igbc&t=23589 I tried to get across the notion of thinking of home in a rather...well, hostile environment...you know, bittersweet wholesome...ness... laugh In everything past 6:46 the theme really starts distending (though it does go for a few more minutes...but then it came before and the like...urgh, I don't know smile )so...if you don't shut it off by then, don't bother with the rest laugh Um...I don't know....I try not to be an insecure duckling but...I mean, if there's *no* point in doing this rubbish then there's a chance that should I redirect my energies I might do something...meaningful? I don't know...um...just...yes, I suppose it's insecurity about purpose; I don't care if I'm just terrible, the direction matters to me though...advice would be lovely laugh Criticism would be lovely also...I don't know. Thank you for reading down here; I hope you're well, happy and have a lovely day and night.
FSO
Xxx
P.S. Sorry for...yes, all the things I should be sorry for in this instance laugh
_________________________
Sometimes, we all just need to be shown a little kindness <3

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#2124544 - 07/29/13 12:46 AM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: FSO]
D. S. F. Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/10/10
Posts: 142
"Deffles" here. I will say the title and description do not invite the most confidence, and listening as I am listening, you need not be in such self deprecating despair. Improvisation is a special realm, and it has always been my most natural reaction to sitting down at a keyboard. Whether exploring technical or harmonic possibilities, or simply getting lost in the wanderings of an open structure, I think it is an essential element in the life of a musician, though oft neglected it may be. There is a lot I could say about all that...but listening as I am, I do see value in what you are doing, and would encourage you to continue. And that not merely for your own mind, I find it on a night as tonight very welcome listening. I am quite used to unrelenting walls of sound and tend to gravitate towards them, so I can well relate to the honesty of the tension/release found in your music. Yes, keep going.
_________________________
Music does not have to be understood;
It has to be listened to.
- Hermann Scherchen.

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#2124948 - 07/29/13 06:11 PM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: D. S. F.]
FSO Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/03/12
Posts: 854
Loc: UK, Brighton
Aww! Deffles, you remembered! <3 I, too, find improvisation to be the most natural way of musicing (it's a word now...right? laugh ); the idea of doing the same thing over and over seems so difficult and alien...but, um, that's what discipline's for, isn't it? That's where all my worry comes from (well...it's probably something to do with my father or some nonsense, but anyway - ); surely there's a fine line between being improvisational at heart and just being lazy...or, at least, too carefree. Besides, one may be improvisational at heart but genuinely just be rubbish at it...so...um...thank you; your words meant a lot to me...well, mean a lot to me, and I'll try and be less of a silly sausage in future (though, undoubtedly, I will fail at that {too wink } )...thank you, really.
Xxxx
_________________________
Sometimes, we all just need to be shown a little kindness <3

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#2124970 - 07/29/13 07:06 PM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: FSO]
beet31425 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/09
Posts: 3788
Loc: Bay Area, CA
FSO... Is this video 12 hours of you improvising at the piano?


-J
_________________________
Beethoven: op.109, 110, 111

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#2125141 - 07/30/13 05:01 AM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: FSO]
FSO Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/03/12
Posts: 854
Loc: UK, Brighton
....Well, not quite that long; let's not surrender to hyperbole...but yes laugh
_________________________
Sometimes, we all just need to be shown a little kindness <3

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#2125173 - 07/30/13 08:10 AM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: FSO]
woodog Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/21/12
Posts: 394
Loc: Bowling Green, KY
Improvisation is a part of me.

I do not care about the validation*, although it IS nice to get it, but instead ask myself.

What do I want from it? (self realization)
Am I getting that? yes
What would I be doing if not that? (watching Elimidate or Room Raiders and eating corn chips**)

Forrest

* Do a Google Search on the following phrase 'The Validation Manifesto' and look for the result from 'Stank'

cynical yet spot on - I will not link to it from here, since it uses harsh language to make a good point.

** not really *cough*.. as I've NEVER EVER ever done anything so completely without merit *cough*
_________________________
-------------------
current studies:
Debussy: Suite Bergamasque
Bach 848, 866
Schumann Op. 15

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#2125444 - 07/30/13 05:53 PM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: FSO]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7605
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: FSO
....Well, not quite that long; let's not surrender to hyperbole...but yes laugh

All right, let me make the correction for beet: Is this video 11 hours, 39 minutes, and 15 seconds of you improvising at the piano? laugh
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

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#2125473 - 07/30/13 06:24 PM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: Polyphonist]
beet31425 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/09
Posts: 3788
Loc: Bay Area, CA
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: FSO
....Well, not quite that long; let's not surrender to hyperbole...but yes laugh

All right, let me make the correction for beet: Is this video 11 hours, 39 minutes, and 15 seconds of you improvising at the piano? laugh

Yeah, I exaggerated by only 3%!

Anyway, FSO, I can't say that I really *listened* to any large part of it. But it certainly wasn't the uninteresting pretty treacle one usually hears. There were actual ideas here, presented with real force.

You're clearly capable of generating ideas, like a volcano generating magma. Now comes the real work: can you shape these ideas into something enduring?

-J
_________________________
Beethoven: op.109, 110, 111

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#2125474 - 07/30/13 06:29 PM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: FSO]
Tim Adrianson Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/10
Posts: 1057
FSO, one thing I was curious about -- I briefly checked out a number of your other improvisations, and a lot of them (including this one) seem to allude to Russian subject matter of different sorts. Since you are presently living in England, is there a reason for that -- i.e., do you or your parents/grandparents originally come from Russia? Just curious.

I confess to being about, oh, 178 degrees or so apart from you on the pursuit of improvisation. I really LIKE working from scores, and doing things over and over again -- and I couldn't imagine myself creating stream-of-consciousness soundscapes out of whole cloth -- which, to gather from the number of improvisations you have committed to YouTube, appears to be an all-consuming interest for you. The closest I've seen to what you do is the "jazz" pianist Marilyn Crispell -- and I put the "jazz" in quotation marks because her style is much more free form -- sometimes very lyrical, sometimes jagged and dissonant -- but always with logical associative referents. You might check her out, if you're so inclined.

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#2125555 - 07/30/13 09:36 PM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: FSO]
FSO Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/03/12
Posts: 854
Loc: UK, Brighton
Um...okay, beet: I can't, no. I mean, it used to be what I tried to do but...I took a knock. I mean, my whole musical life (a mere 8 years, beginning by playing a piano in the school hall, being thrown off whenever caught, and not being allowed by my father to learn music as it is "impractical"; um, it wasn't until maybe half a year after playing that I learnt of classical music [having, until that point, found music rather empty and not paying it any attention], by which point I'd already...well, as "they" put it, poisoned myself with dissonance, which obviously required firm stamping out) people have criticised my compositions; after a particularly vicious verbal barrage I kind of...well...snapped a bit (not in a violent way though laugh ). I've not "composed" since; general ideas and putting them together in my head before sitting down, yes, but, um, notating anything? No. Still, the impressions rush through me like...some kind of simile, but I'm not a musician, certainly I'm no composer and my technique is, how the French say, marred laugh I'm a chronic impressionist and maybe I always was; my compositions must have been slated for some reason. Um...ideas, hmm, maybe (thank you though, you really are sweet you know ^>^ ), force and passion I have but...um...something enduring? I'd love few things more...really few, actually; to be able to touch someone after I've passed and maybe, just maybe, heal them if they're hurting...to add some kind of true transcendental beauty to the universe rather than just sponging it all up? Nothing could be better, really...um...I'm just not good enough. But isn't that what we all want? I don't know...I don't wish to speak for anyone but...is it not? Isn't that why we try? And why we can't not? (Woodog, I think that inadvertently answers all your questions from my perspective smile I'll be sure to read the manifesto, don't you fret; thanks for the suggestion!) To try and reach that elusive pool that holds even just a glimmer of emotion, whichever one it may be, and distil it into music so that anyone can hear it...so difficult to reach though, so slippery and far away; the trek shrouded in a foggy haze-like smokey mire...some people manage to stride through confidently though whilst so many just stumble around in circles... frown Um...anyway, short answer; I really don't think so...I hope I can and so...well, I ask for help along the way, just to make sure I'm facing the right direction, even if I'll never make it. As I mentioned, your words meant a lot. Um...Tim! laugh That's an exceptional observation! Just...um...staggered...frankly laugh I...well, I was born in Germany, lived there briefly before moving to Scotland, then England...um...I have no Russian relatives or anything of the sort...but I just feel *so* Slavic...I always have, ever since I first learnt about Russia when I was, what, seven or eight years old? I don't know...when *do* people learn about other countries generally? Just...without going into my whole belief system, which is probably the most simply complex thing I've ever developed, it can make sense to me. Um...I feel it's just where I'm from, you know? Maybe you don't...knowing without reason to know, just...a feeling laugh Also, the Cyrillic Dreams are Bulgarian; I was having particularly vivid dreams that presented themselves as a tapestry of Bulgarian words (Bulgarian being the nationality of my best friend's only real romantic love)...um...I just...I've read so many documents on Russian lifestyles, etiquette of past and present, history and so forth...um...it's just slightly different from a fascination and I can't *explain* how laugh Amazing perception though....I'll keep my eye on that laugh Um...yes, we really are different in our approach; I can perhaps recognise how working on the same thing and improving it could be incredibly rewarding...but yeesh! I can't manage it; more power to you! I keep Youtube as a sort of public diary; I can access it from anywhere in the world (as can my best friend and anyone with a weak grasp on what they *should* be listening to laugh ) and...sort of feel how I did at that time, by listening. It also helps to see some kind of progression; it's nice to look back a year or so and see how I did things differently, hopefully worse, usually I pessimistically focus on how much better I *was* (not that my uneducated mind could really tell laugh )...um...I think it's the kind of thing real musicians (who improvise, of course) should do...it'd be interesting to hear...maybe I'm wrong laugh As it turns out, I *was* so inclined and have been listening whilst typing this tediously long response; so a fair listen laugh Specifically, her Vignettes..."album"? She's quite alright; I'm sure I wouldn't agree with her being labelled a jazz musician either; very good at playing the same pitch I note (or is that; the same note, I pitch? laugh )...gosh, this reply really got out of hand I feel, um...thank you, for the interest and...well, for the important correction, Polyphonist laugh I mean, without that...well, it'd just be a shambles...ta, all!
<3
Xxxx
_________________________
Sometimes, we all just need to be shown a little kindness <3

Top
#2126011 - 07/31/13 05:22 PM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: FSO]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7605
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: FSO
Um...okay, beet: I can't, no. I mean, it used to be what I tried to do but...I took a knock. I mean, my whole musical life (a mere 8 years, beginning by playing a piano in the school hall, being thrown off whenever caught, and not being allowed by my father to learn music as it is "impractical"; um, it wasn't until maybe half a year after playing that I learnt of classical music [having, until that point, found music rather empty and not paying it any attention], by which point I'd already...well, as "they" put it, poisoned myself with dissonance, which obviously required firm stamping out) people have criticised my compositions; after a particularly vicious verbal barrage I kind of...well...snapped a bit (not in a violent way though laugh ). I've not "composed" since; general ideas and putting them together in my head before sitting down, yes, but, um, notating anything? No. Still, the impressions rush through me like...some kind of simile, but I'm not a musician, certainly I'm no composer and my technique is, how the French say, marred laugh I'm a chronic impressionist and maybe I always was; my compositions must have been slated for some reason. Um...ideas, hmm, maybe (thank you though, you really are sweet you know ^>^ ), force and passion I have but...um...something enduring? I'd love few things more...really few, actually; to be able to touch someone after I've passed and maybe, just maybe, heal them if they're hurting...to add some kind of true transcendental beauty to the universe rather than just sponging it all up? Nothing could be better, really...um...I'm just not good enough. But isn't that what we all want? I don't know...I don't wish to speak for anyone but...is it not? Isn't that why we try? And why we can't not? (Woodog, I think that inadvertently answers all your questions from my perspective smile I'll be sure to read the manifesto, don't you fret; thanks for the suggestion!) To try and reach that elusive pool that holds even just a glimmer of emotion, whichever one it may be, and distil it into music so that anyone can hear it...so difficult to reach though, so slippery and far away; the trek shrouded in a foggy haze-like smokey mire...some people manage to stride through confidently though whilst so many just stumble around in circles... frown Um...anyway, short answer; I really don't think so...I hope I can and so...well, I ask for help along the way, just to make sure I'm facing the right direction, even if I'll never make it. As I mentioned, your words meant a lot. Um...Tim! laugh That's an exceptional observation! Just...um...staggered...frankly laugh I...well, I was born in Germany, lived there briefly before moving to Scotland, then England...um...I have no Russian relatives or anything of the sort...but I just feel *so* Slavic...I always have, ever since I first learnt about Russia when I was, what, seven or eight years old? I don't know...when *do* people learn about other countries generally? Just...without going into my whole belief system, which is probably the most simply complex thing I've ever developed, it can make sense to me. Um...I feel it's just where I'm from, you know? Maybe you don't...knowing without reason to know, just...a feeling laugh Also, the Cyrillic Dreams are Bulgarian; I was having particularly vivid dreams that presented themselves as a tapestry of Bulgarian words (Bulgarian being the nationality of my best friend's only real romantic love)...um...I just...I've read so many documents on Russian lifestyles, etiquette of past and present, history and so forth...um...it's just slightly different from a fascination and I can't *explain* how laugh Amazing perception though....I'll keep my eye on that laugh Um...yes, we really are different in our approach; I can perhaps recognise how working on the same thing and improving it could be incredibly rewarding...but yeesh! I can't manage it; more power to you! I keep Youtube as a sort of public diary; I can access it from anywhere in the world (as can my best friend and anyone with a weak grasp on what they *should* be listening to laugh ) and...sort of feel how I did at that time, by listening. It also helps to see some kind of progression; it's nice to look back a year or so and see how I did things differently, hopefully worse, usually I pessimistically focus on how much better I *was* (not that my uneducated mind could really tell laugh )...um...I think it's the kind of thing real musicians (who improvise, of course) should do...it'd be interesting to hear...maybe I'm wrong laugh As it turns out, I *was* so inclined and have been listening whilst typing this tediously long response; so a fair listen laugh Specifically, her Vignettes..."album"? She's quite alright; I'm sure I wouldn't agree with her being labelled a jazz musician either; very good at playing the same pitch I note (or is that; the same note, I pitch? laugh )...gosh, this reply really got out of hand I feel, um...thank you, for the interest and...well, for the important correction, Polyphonist laugh I mean, without that...well, it'd just be a shambles...ta, all!
<3
Xxxx

Try paragraphs next time. wink laugh grin
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

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#2126099 - 07/31/13 08:20 PM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: Polyphonist]
carey Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6339
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: FSO
Um...okay, beet: I can't, no. I mean, it used to be what I tried to do but...I took a knock. I mean, my whole musical life (a mere 8 years, beginning by playing a piano in the school hall, being thrown off whenever caught, and not being allowed by my father to learn music as it is "impractical"; um, it wasn't until maybe half a year after playing that I learnt of classical music [having, until that point, found music rather empty and not paying it any attention], by which point I'd already...well, as "they" put it, poisoned myself with dissonance, which obviously required firm stamping out) people have criticised my compositions; after a particularly vicious verbal barrage I kind of...well...snapped a bit (not in a violent way though laugh ). I've not "composed" since; general ideas and putting them together in my head before sitting down, yes, but, um, notating anything? No. Still, the impressions rush through me like...some kind of simile, but I'm not a musician, certainly I'm no composer and my technique is, how the French say, marred laugh I'm a chronic impressionist and maybe I always was; my compositions must have been slated for some reason. Um...ideas, hmm, maybe (thank you though, you really are sweet you know ^>^ ), force and passion I have but...um...something enduring? I'd love few things more...really few, actually; to be able to touch someone after I've passed and maybe, just maybe, heal them if they're hurting...to add some kind of true transcendental beauty to the universe rather than just sponging it all up? Nothing could be better, really...um...I'm just not good enough. But isn't that what we all want? I don't know...I don't wish to speak for anyone but...is it not? Isn't that why we try? And why we can't not? (Woodog, I think that inadvertently answers all your questions from my perspective smile I'll be sure to read the manifesto, don't you fret; thanks for the suggestion!) To try and reach that elusive pool that holds even just a glimmer of emotion, whichever one it may be, and distil it into music so that anyone can hear it...so difficult to reach though, so slippery and far away; the trek shrouded in a foggy haze-like smokey mire...some people manage to stride through confidently though whilst so many just stumble around in circles... frown Um...anyway, short answer; I really don't think so...I hope I can and so...well, I ask for help along the way, just to make sure I'm facing the right direction, even if I'll never make it. As I mentioned, your words meant a lot. Um...Tim! laugh That's an exceptional observation! Just...um...staggered...frankly laugh I...well, I was born in Germany, lived there briefly before moving to Scotland, then England...um...I have no Russian relatives or anything of the sort...but I just feel *so* Slavic...I always have, ever since I first learnt about Russia when I was, what, seven or eight years old? I don't know...when *do* people learn about other countries generally? Just...without going into my whole belief system, which is probably the most simply complex thing I've ever developed, it can make sense to me. Um...I feel it's just where I'm from, you know? Maybe you don't...knowing without reason to know, just...a feeling laugh Also, the Cyrillic Dreams are Bulgarian; I was having particularly vivid dreams that presented themselves as a tapestry of Bulgarian words (Bulgarian being the nationality of my best friend's only real romantic love)...um...I just...I've read so many documents on Russian lifestyles, etiquette of past and present, history and so forth...um...it's just slightly different from a fascination and I can't *explain* how laugh Amazing perception though....I'll keep my eye on that laugh Um...yes, we really are different in our approach; I can perhaps recognise how working on the same thing and improving it could be incredibly rewarding...but yeesh! I can't manage it; more power to you! I keep Youtube as a sort of public diary; I can access it from anywhere in the world (as can my best friend and anyone with a weak grasp on what they *should* be listening to laugh ) and...sort of feel how I did at that time, by listening. It also helps to see some kind of progression; it's nice to look back a year or so and see how I did things differently, hopefully worse, usually I pessimistically focus on how much better I *was* (not that my uneducated mind could really tell laugh )...um...I think it's the kind of thing real musicians (who improvise, of course) should do...it'd be interesting to hear...maybe I'm wrong laugh As it turns out, I *was* so inclined and have been listening whilst typing this tediously long response; so a fair listen laugh Specifically, her Vignettes..."album"? She's quite alright; I'm sure I wouldn't agree with her being labelled a jazz musician either; very good at playing the same pitch I note (or is that; the same note, I pitch? laugh )...gosh, this reply really got out of hand I feel, um...thank you, for the interest and...well, for the important correction, Polyphonist laugh I mean, without that...well, it'd just be a shambles...ta, all!
<3
Xxxx

Try paragraphs next time. wink laugh grin


Yes - in addition to paragraphs, please try canning the "stream of consciousness" writing style - along with all the "ums" - and perhaps more folks will actually read your posts. Quite frankly, I simply can't get past the first few sentences. Sorry. crazy


Edited by carey (07/31/13 08:30 PM)
_________________________
YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo

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#2126139 - 07/31/13 10:16 PM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: carey]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7605
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: carey
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: FSO
Um...okay, beet: I can't, no. I mean, it used to be what I tried to do but...I took a knock. I mean, my whole musical life (a mere 8 years, beginning by playing a piano in the school hall, being thrown off whenever caught, and not being allowed by my father to learn music as it is "impractical"; um, it wasn't until maybe half a year after playing that I learnt of classical music [having, until that point, found music rather empty and not paying it any attention], by which point I'd already...well, as "they" put it, poisoned myself with dissonance, which obviously required firm stamping out) people have criticised my compositions; after a particularly vicious verbal barrage I kind of...well...snapped a bit (not in a violent way though laugh ). I've not "composed" since; general ideas and putting them together in my head before sitting down, yes, but, um, notating anything? No. Still, the impressions rush through me like...some kind of simile, but I'm not a musician, certainly I'm no composer and my technique is, how the French say, marred laugh I'm a chronic impressionist and maybe I always was; my compositions must have been slated for some reason. Um...ideas, hmm, maybe (thank you though, you really are sweet you know ^>^ ), force and passion I have but...um...something enduring? I'd love few things more...really few, actually; to be able to touch someone after I've passed and maybe, just maybe, heal them if they're hurting...to add some kind of true transcendental beauty to the universe rather than just sponging it all up? Nothing could be better, really...um...I'm just not good enough. But isn't that what we all want? I don't know...I don't wish to speak for anyone but...is it not? Isn't that why we try? And why we can't not? (Woodog, I think that inadvertently answers all your questions from my perspective smile I'll be sure to read the manifesto, don't you fret; thanks for the suggestion!) To try and reach that elusive pool that holds even just a glimmer of emotion, whichever one it may be, and distil it into music so that anyone can hear it...so difficult to reach though, so slippery and far away; the trek shrouded in a foggy haze-like smokey mire...some people manage to stride through confidently though whilst so many just stumble around in circles... frown Um...anyway, short answer; I really don't think so...I hope I can and so...well, I ask for help along the way, just to make sure I'm facing the right direction, even if I'll never make it. As I mentioned, your words meant a lot. Um...Tim! laugh That's an exceptional observation! Just...um...staggered...frankly laugh I...well, I was born in Germany, lived there briefly before moving to Scotland, then England...um...I have no Russian relatives or anything of the sort...but I just feel *so* Slavic...I always have, ever since I first learnt about Russia when I was, what, seven or eight years old? I don't know...when *do* people learn about other countries generally? Just...without going into my whole belief system, which is probably the most simply complex thing I've ever developed, it can make sense to me. Um...I feel it's just where I'm from, you know? Maybe you don't...knowing without reason to know, just...a feeling laugh Also, the Cyrillic Dreams are Bulgarian; I was having particularly vivid dreams that presented themselves as a tapestry of Bulgarian words (Bulgarian being the nationality of my best friend's only real romantic love)...um...I just...I've read so many documents on Russian lifestyles, etiquette of past and present, history and so forth...um...it's just slightly different from a fascination and I can't *explain* how laugh Amazing perception though....I'll keep my eye on that laugh Um...yes, we really are different in our approach; I can perhaps recognise how working on the same thing and improving it could be incredibly rewarding...but yeesh! I can't manage it; more power to you! I keep Youtube as a sort of public diary; I can access it from anywhere in the world (as can my best friend and anyone with a weak grasp on what they *should* be listening to laugh ) and...sort of feel how I did at that time, by listening. It also helps to see some kind of progression; it's nice to look back a year or so and see how I did things differently, hopefully worse, usually I pessimistically focus on how much better I *was* (not that my uneducated mind could really tell laugh )...um...I think it's the kind of thing real musicians (who improvise, of course) should do...it'd be interesting to hear...maybe I'm wrong laugh As it turns out, I *was* so inclined and have been listening whilst typing this tediously long response; so a fair listen laugh Specifically, her Vignettes..."album"? She's quite alright; I'm sure I wouldn't agree with her being labelled a jazz musician either; very good at playing the same pitch I note (or is that; the same note, I pitch? laugh )...gosh, this reply really got out of hand I feel, um...thank you, for the interest and...well, for the important correction, Polyphonist laugh I mean, without that...well, it'd just be a shambles...ta, all!
<3
Xxxx

Try paragraphs next time. wink laugh grin


Yes - in addition to paragraphs, please try canning the "stream of consciousness" writing style - along with all the "ums" - and perhaps more folks will actually read your posts. Quite frankly, I simply can't get past the first few sentences. Sorry. crazy


It's a little like listening to an overexcited ten-year-old who runs their mouth faster than they can formulate their thoughts, so that what you hear is a similar jumble of incoherence.
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

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#2126165 - 07/31/13 11:29 PM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: carey]
Cinnamonbear Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 3904
Loc: Rockford, IL
Originally Posted By: carey
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: FSO
Um...okay, beet: I can't, no. I mean, it used to be what I tried to do but...I took a knock. I mean, my whole musical life (a mere 8 years, beginning by playing a piano in the school hall, being thrown off whenever caught, and not being allowed by my father to learn music as it is "impractical"; um, it wasn't until maybe half a year after playing that I learnt of classical music [having, until that point, found music rather empty and not paying it any attention], by which point I'd already...well, as "they" put it, poisoned myself with dissonance, which obviously required firm stamping out) people have criticised my compositions; after a particularly vicious verbal barrage I kind of...well...snapped a bit (not in a violent way though laugh ). I've not "composed" since; general ideas and putting them together in my head before sitting down, yes, but, um, notating anything? No. Still, the impressions rush through me like...some kind of simile, but I'm not a musician, certainly I'm no composer and my technique is, how the French say, marred laugh I'm a chronic impressionist and maybe I always was; my compositions must have been slated for some reason. Um...ideas, hmm, maybe (thank you though, you really are sweet you know ^>^ ), force and passion I have but...um...something enduring? I'd love few things more...really few, actually; to be able to touch someone after I've passed and maybe, just maybe, heal them if they're hurting...to add some kind of true transcendental beauty to the universe rather than just sponging it all up? Nothing could be better, really...um...I'm just not good enough. But isn't that what we all want? I don't know...I don't wish to speak for anyone but...is it not? Isn't that why we try? And why we can't not? (Woodog, I think that inadvertently answers all your questions from my perspective smile I'll be sure to read the manifesto, don't you fret; thanks for the suggestion!) To try and reach that elusive pool that holds even just a glimmer of emotion, whichever one it may be, and distil it into music so that anyone can hear it...so difficult to reach though, so slippery and far away; the trek shrouded in a foggy haze-like smokey mire...some people manage to stride through confidently though whilst so many just stumble around in circles... frown Um...anyway, short answer; I really don't think so...I hope I can and so...well, I ask for help along the way, just to make sure I'm facing the right direction, even if I'll never make it. As I mentioned, your words meant a lot. Um...Tim! laugh That's an exceptional observation! Just...um...staggered...frankly laugh I...well, I was born in Germany, lived there briefly before moving to Scotland, then England...um...I have no Russian relatives or anything of the sort...but I just feel *so* Slavic...I always have, ever since I first learnt about Russia when I was, what, seven or eight years old? I don't know...when *do* people learn about other countries generally? Just...without going into my whole belief system, which is probably the most simply complex thing I've ever developed, it can make sense to me. Um...I feel it's just where I'm from, you know? Maybe you don't...knowing without reason to know, just...a feeling laugh Also, the Cyrillic Dreams are Bulgarian; I was having particularly vivid dreams that presented themselves as a tapestry of Bulgarian words (Bulgarian being the nationality of my best friend's only real romantic love)...um...I just...I've read so many documents on Russian lifestyles, etiquette of past and present, history and so forth...um...it's just slightly different from a fascination and I can't *explain* how laugh Amazing perception though....I'll keep my eye on that laugh Um...yes, we really are different in our approach; I can perhaps recognise how working on the same thing and improving it could be incredibly rewarding...but yeesh! I can't manage it; more power to you! I keep Youtube as a sort of public diary; I can access it from anywhere in the world (as can my best friend and anyone with a weak grasp on what they *should* be listening to laugh ) and...sort of feel how I did at that time, by listening. It also helps to see some kind of progression; it's nice to look back a year or so and see how I did things differently, hopefully worse, usually I pessimistically focus on how much better I *was* (not that my uneducated mind could really tell laugh )...um...I think it's the kind of thing real musicians (who improvise, of course) should do...it'd be interesting to hear...maybe I'm wrong laugh As it turns out, I *was* so inclined and have been listening whilst typing this tediously long response; so a fair listen laugh Specifically, her Vignettes..."album"? She's quite alright; I'm sure I wouldn't agree with her being labelled a jazz musician either; very good at playing the same pitch I note (or is that; the same note, I pitch? laugh )...gosh, this reply really got out of hand I feel, um...thank you, for the interest and...well, for the important correction, Polyphonist laugh I mean, without that...well, it'd just be a shambles...ta, all!
<3
Xxxx

Try paragraphs next time. wink laugh grin


Yes - in addition to paragraphs, please try canning the "stream of consciousness" writing style - along with all the "ums" - and perhaps more folks will actually read your posts. Quite frankly, I simply can't get past the first few sentences. Sorry. crazy


I am coming to FSO's defense, not that she needs it; rather, to give an alternate voice of explication to her consistent explanations regarding her locution (the word "locution" is bold because it's a vocabulary word, people. Look it up if you need to... (Haven't you gotten it by now, readers???)), and, as such, by way of appreciation: mine clearly stated, and I hope that others can learn to hear her voice, which, much like modern music for some, might be an acquired taste.

Here is a very personal statement: I am slow. Seriously--I really am slow. I think slowly. I work slowly. And, I read slowly--really, really slowly. Reading slowly, for an English Lit. major (as I was at one point in my life (M.A., eventually, thankyouverymuch)), is a bit of a detriment (try taking a Dickens seminar, and see if you can tuck under your belt five novels in one semester! (I missed one: Old Curiosity Shop, indeed, and I still have bad dreams about taking the final, from time to time.)). But as I have aged, I have also learned to accept myself, AND, in accepting my, um, some would say, disability of being a slow reader--I have come to a conclusion. That is, authors choose words carefully. Not only that, but they present them carefully, too.

Compare and contrast: both my wife and my son read in chunks. They take in whole sentences, paragraphs, and, it seems, pages at a time. They are very smart and very quick. But guess what? They don't read every word. Nor, do they appreciate every nuance.

What I discovered in reflecting on my "disability" was this: I became an appreciator of form and style. Being slow, in order to maintain some semblance of actual comprehension, I needed to read EVERY WORD of every work that I read. At some point in accepting this realization, I had the epiphany that authors do not write in chunks. They may THINK in chunks, but they write in words. And they place these words, word by word, in a certain order, and for a certain reason. They even rework the words, to get the words in the exactly right place exactly. On the surface, this is called, "voice." But, it has a deeper meaning, as well... ...A much, much deeper meaning, if you care to take time to study it.

Can you appreciate literature? Who has read James Joyce? Who has read Thomas Pynchon? Who has read Tom Wolfe? These people had a lot to say, and they said it in unconventional ways. But they said it. And people read it. And people who took the time to get it, got it.

FSO is like that, to me. She has a style. It is worthy of appreciation, as much as any person who stands in front of you is worth acknowledging, hearing, understanding and appreciating. Instead of asking FSO to change, I would suggest that readers SLOW DOWN and read her words, which are full of life and meaning. FSO is talking when she writes. (I have often wondered if she is using voice recognition software to make her posts. Nonetheless,--) Hear the pitch. Hear the cadences. Imagine the dialect.

Or, not. If FSO is not your cup of tea, leave her alone. But, please don't ask her to change.

FSO has a lot to say--in words AND music! In my opinion, she adds much to the discourse, here. I choose to read and appreciate what she says.

But I am slow.

(I also take time to smell roses. And honeysuckle. And, believe it or not, dandelions, which are lovely, soft, and sweet. "Little mums," I've heard them called, with tremendous health-giving properties, which, when you look at them that way...)

XXXOOO,
--Andy
_________________________
I may not be fast,
but at least I'm slow.

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#2126174 - 08/01/13 12:11 AM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: FSO]
D. S. F. Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/10/10
Posts: 142
FWIW, I too am slow in many ways including reading, and before any of the criticism came up I had read every word of FSO's post, with no trouble, just as I have read every word of Andy's reply. Truth be told, I was curious to see what the dialog would be interacting with the thoughts, and shocked to instead see the criticism.
_________________________
Music does not have to be understood;
It has to be listened to.
- Hermann Scherchen.

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#2126222 - 08/01/13 03:43 AM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: FSO]
scepticalforumguy Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/18/08
Posts: 1475
Loc: Lower Mainland, BC
I think Fluttershy (FSO) is doing amazing things with these improvs. The trouble is only that one needs to commit a significant amount of time to get through them.
I'm also an improvisor, currently doing more jazz than other genres, but really find that what she is doing is musically rewarding.

FSO, Keep it up, and I'm sure you'll be touching many more lives in positive ways with these contributions.

I'm glad I came back to this forum--it was a bit dead for years and now there seem to be some good things going on again.

Peace
_________________________
Recordings of my recent solo piano and piano/keyboard trio jazz standards.



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#2126235 - 08/01/13 04:38 AM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: FSO]
FSO Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/03/12
Posts: 854
Loc: UK, Brighton
Pfft laugh It doesn't matter...it does confuse me, admittedly, but it doesn't upset me too much when people don't read my jumble of incoherence smile I'm sure Bernhard felt similarly to those that you mentioned, Cinnybear, when facing critique; I mean, um, tea isn't for everyone. Some people prefer trowels of tea, I'm sure...um...thank you, for the ripost; likely, left to my own devices, I would have mumbled some form of apology, felt bad for a few moments and moved on with my life (reflecting, perhaps for the time whose count matters not, briefly, perchance, on how much of life truly is just another repetition of the same tired principles, before becoming distracted by something shiny)...but thank you, it's nice ^>^ Slowness is a virtue and, frankly, I'm pleased that you've come to terms with possessing it! laugh I mean, um, appreciating life is *the point* of life...possibly smile Either way, you don't listen to Beethoven sped up, so why hope for your life to be so? Anywho, negative criticism (for though my words may be incomprehensible for some, I at least know what the words I use mean...grumble grumble... laugh I mean...I *do* sort of take a perverse pleasure in reading what people are *actually* writing; with regard to comprehensibility, this dichotomy that appears to occasionally form between style and substance seems, to me, the most absurd) helps us grow, no? So...in a way, casting someone's style into the fires of condemnation may more be a merely frustrated form of trying to be nice? Um...I will say, my thoughts are quite formulated prior to attempting to pen (key?) them; other thoughts simply manage to spring up whilst the arduous task of typing (it was type, not key laugh ) keeps me occupied...and if I were to only type what first appeared firm...well, I couldn't justifiably type anything; such self-censorship is the only logical course to take...unless you are more of a gardener than architect; some will type things...I mean, they will have objective...objects that they try to put forth for everyone to see and, hopefully, appreciate...but, um, some of us will express which, woefully, does not always come in the easiest to swallow morsels. It's messy, indirect, perhaps disjointed, but does not necessarily lack formulation or in any way infer a total disregard for relevance (for instance, I just realised I could wear my keyring and not need to take a bag to store my keys within later...um...these thoughts are irrelevant and, save for this exception which proves the rule {a fairly odd phrase, I find, that indicates it's own erroneous nature [this little diversion in and of itself being of point which, unfortunately hasn't been explained yet (but shall laugh )] regardless of how it's read}); instead, it tries to convey something more...I mean, um, the tone with which you say something matters; it changes the *meaning* of what you say...so, naturally, sometimes you must destabilise what you seem to be saying to convey further intent; erroneous as it may seem (see? I even made it easy by repeating a word {which I loathe, really}), sometimes one must not say what they mean to convey what they mean. Um....diversion aside laugh for those who lack physical impairment (such as currawong dearest) my style shouldn't be illegible. I'm sorry that it is, but...maybe, dare I suggest, that rather than my writing it incorrectly...you're not...reading it right?? laugh Um...I won't go on the stand and insist that, of course, but, um, if an English Literature degree holder (masterfully done, of course) finds it appreciable...well...then I can't feel *too* bad(ly...adverbs people...really laugh ) about myself...in this regard laugh I'm not so sure how much I agree with my having a lot to say about music; pretty much *everyone* here is far more esteemed than me, but (which means and, by the way, merely with a negative implication; implications being related to the conveyance of meaning which is not technically stipulated {repetitious is life laugh } ) I certainly appreciate what you've done for me. Thank you. Deffles dearest; thank you too (seems weak compared with that internet version of a treatise but, frankly, I've got to get going {keyring laugh } smile ). Sorry for any offence my condescension may have caused, it certainly wasn't intended; bear in mind that it is, if read as such, only condescension...um....I'd never patronise anyone! laugh
FSO
Xxx
_________________________
Sometimes, we all just need to be shown a little kindness <3

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#2126507 - 08/01/13 04:16 PM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: Cinnamonbear]
carey Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6339
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted By: Cinnamonbear
FSO is like that, to me. She has a style. It is worthy of appreciation, as much as any person who stands in front of you is worth acknowledging, hearing, understanding and appreciating. Instead of asking FSO to change, I would suggest that readers SLOW DOWN and read her words, which are full of life and meaning. FSO is talking when she writes. (I have often wondered if she is using voice recognition software to make her posts. Nonetheless,--) Hear the pitch. Hear the cadences. Imagine the dialect.

Or, not. If FSO is not your cup of tea, leave her alone. But, please don't ask her to change.


Mea culpa. I sincerely apologize to FSO. While her writing style is not my cup of tea, it is MY problem - not her's.

Cheers !!
_________________________
YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo

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#2126534 - 08/01/13 05:04 PM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: FSO]
pianoloverus Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19342
Loc: New York City
I doubt whether one in ten who start FSO's posts finish reading them. I think it's really a question of courtesy and one should not to expect anyone to try and read posts that look like that.

I cannot recall a single poster at PW whose posts are so difficult, close to impossible IMO, to read. One should not have to read a post as if one is trying to translate from a foreign language one is unfamiliar with. Typically FSO gets far more comments on the difficulty of reading her posts than on the content of the posts.

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#2126560 - 08/01/13 06:10 PM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: FSO]
Vid Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/01
Posts: 839
Loc: Vancouver, B.C.
I think its a question of courtesy to your intended readers. If you really expect or want people to read your thoughts you should take the time and effort to make it somewhat, uhm, wink palatable for human consumption.
_________________________
Kawai VPC1, Pianoteq, Galaxy Vintage D

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#2126629 - 08/01/13 09:02 PM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: FSO]
woodog Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/21/12
Posts: 394
Loc: Bowling Green, KY
I love FSO's writing. ...then again, I've always been one out of ten, or five out of six if Kinsey was correct... Or something...

And yes, my questions were answered.

Best!

Forrest
_________________________
-------------------
current studies:
Debussy: Suite Bergamasque
Bach 848, 866
Schumann Op. 15

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#2126671 - 08/01/13 10:48 PM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: FSO]
Cinnamonbear Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 3904
Loc: Rockford, IL
Originally Posted By: FSO
Pfft laugh It doesn't matter...it does confuse me, admittedly, but it doesn't upset me too much when people don't read my jumble of incoherence smile I'm sure Bernhard felt similarly to those that you mentioned, Cinnybear, when facing critique; I mean, um, tea isn't for everyone. Some people prefer trowels of tea, I'm sure...um...thank you, for the ripost; likely, left to my own devices, I would have mumbled some form of apology, felt bad for a few moments and moved on with my life (reflecting, perhaps for the time whose count matters not, briefly, perchance, on how much of life truly is just another repetition of the same tired principles, before becoming distracted by something shiny)...but thank you, it's nice ^>^ Slowness is a virtue and, frankly, I'm pleased that you've come to terms with possessing it! laugh I mean, um, appreciating life is *the point* of life...possibly smile Either way, you don't listen to Beethoven sped up, so why hope for your life to be so? Anywho, negative criticism (for though my words may be incomprehensible for some, I at least know what the words I use mean...grumble grumble... laugh I mean...I *do* sort of take a perverse pleasure in reading what people are *actually* writing; with regard to comprehensibility, this dichotomy that appears to occasionally form between style and substance seems, to me, the most absurd) helps us grow, no? So...in a way, casting someone's style into the fires of condemnation may more be a merely frustrated form of trying to be nice? Um...I will say, my thoughts are quite formulated prior to attempting to pen (key?) them; other thoughts simply manage to spring up whilst the arduous task of typing (it was type, not key laugh ) keeps me occupied...and if I were to only type what first appeared firm...well, I couldn't justifiably type anything; such self-censorship is the only logical course to take...unless you are more of a gardener than architect; some will type things...I mean, they will have objective...objects that they try to put forth for everyone to see and, hopefully, appreciate...but, um, some of us will express which, woefully, does not always come in the easiest to swallow morsels. It's messy, indirect, perhaps disjointed, but does not necessarily lack formulation or in any way infer a total disregard for relevance (for instance, I just realised I could wear my keyring and not need to take a bag to store my keys within later...um...these thoughts are irrelevant and, save for this exception which proves the rule {a fairly odd phrase, I find, that indicates it's own erroneous nature [this little diversion in and of itself being of point which, unfortunately hasn't been explained yet (but shall laugh )] regardless of how it's read}); instead, it tries to convey something more...I mean, um, the tone with which you say something matters; it changes the *meaning* of what you say...so, naturally, sometimes you must destabilise what you seem to be saying to convey further intent; erroneous as it may seem (see? I even made it easy by repeating a word {which I loathe, really}), sometimes one must not say what they mean to convey what they mean. Um....diversion aside laugh for those who lack physical impairment (such as currawong dearest) my style shouldn't be illegible. I'm sorry that it is, but...maybe, dare I suggest, that rather than my writing it incorrectly...you're not...reading it right?? laugh Um...I won't go on the stand and insist that, of course, but, um, if an English Literature degree holder (masterfully done, of course) finds it appreciable...well...then I can't feel *too* bad(ly...adverbs people...really laugh ) about myself...in this regard laugh I'm not so sure how much I agree with my having a lot to say about music; pretty much *everyone* here is far more esteemed than me, but (which means and, by the way, merely with a negative implication; implications being related to the conveyance of meaning which is not technically stipulated {repetitious is life laugh } ) I certainly appreciate what you've done for me. Thank you. Deffles dearest; thank you too (seems weak compared with that internet version of a treatise but, frankly, I've got to get going {keyring laugh } smile ). Sorry for any offence my condescension may have caused, it certainly wasn't intended; bear in mind that it is, if read as such, only condescension...um....I'd never patronise anyone! laugh
FSO
Xxx


This ^^^ is a masterpiece, FSO! laugh I read it this morning and laughed out loud, chuckled, and nodded through the whole thing. Then, tonight, as I was re-reading it (because it is wonderful writing, and incredibly witty and thought-provoking) I laughed out loud, chuckled, and nodded again!--but not in all the same places, because I saw some things that I hadn't seen before in the first reading. Now that, my dear, is the mark of quality and not "jumbled incoherence"! grin

As to the "appreciation of life," I have felt for a long time, now, that the actual "meaning" of life is found in personal relationships, and that the quality of one's life can be measured (or assessed, or otherwise reflected upon) by the quality of one's relationships. Volume doesn't count, but treatment and respect does. Just a random thought, there.

I have to tell you, you really got me with the punch line to "negative criticism," because, upon following your parenthetical line of thought, which evoked many musings of my own regarding much of the discourse here at Piano World, and that of individual contributors, some of whom even have provided illustrations for your very grumblings, and in this very thread no less, I didn't see it coming. And there it was.

Some people prefer Hemingway. Some people prefer Eliot. I enjoy how you express your thoughts, FSO.

I remain,
--Andy
_________________________
I may not be fast,
but at least I'm slow.

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#2126684 - 08/01/13 11:32 PM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: FSO]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7605
Loc: New York City
Quite an interesting discussion of language going on on this thread now. I guess the original topic was out the window a long time ago. laugh
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

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#2126726 - 08/02/13 01:07 AM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: FSO]
FSO Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/03/12
Posts: 854
Loc: UK, Brighton
Language is a comparative art form; we use it as a device, much like we may use a piano or paint. Some people hate Schoenberg and Picasso and it's nobody's fault...it's not up to Schoenberg to change his output and it's not up to the listeners to change...their perspective on their input? I mean, um, to do so is almost to defile the purpose of the language itself; very similar to how words between nations can sometimes become misconstrued due to an unknown affect, so too is it throughout all forms of communication. Um...is it a matter of courtesy? I don't *expect* anyone to read my posts; I've not made a song and dance when someone brings up a point that, calmly I note, I've already stated, with at least as much detail, to which others may respond. I mean, um, I get it laugh I litter the internet and the sight of all those disused, incomprehensible thoughts turns many away in disgust; but it is to those that find the beauty in a bin liner wrapped around a tree that I write. If pseudo-populism is deemed courtesy then I feel sorry for the scant regard society has left for understanding it's own foundations. Um...yes, my writing style is a little opaque to some, perhaps most, but as *so many* of the threads here have stipulated (or at least posited); popular opinion is not necessarily the most valued base of critique. So, finally, we wind back to misinterpretation, the comparability of language and I'll use Schoenberg to emphasise the point; to some it works, to others it does not. It's only worth trying to convert people to Schoenberg if they *can* be; some people simply will never accept his music...and that's fine. It's each person's own universe within which they live...um...their own rules and guidelines as to what things are, how they are, the quality of them and it is *through* language that we try to share our universes...um...I'm sure that all universes are compatible and, really, if we could communicate what we *mean* as opposed to what we *say* there could be no disagreement, of any form, over any situation...um...Andy, I'd say that the greatest joy in life is being able to share your world with another (or more than one if you're lucky) to such a degree that you can no longer truly distinguish yours from theirs...I think that would qualify as a relationship not lacking in quality. Meaning and joy, I fear, are incongruent but...perhaps it is *joy* that meaning utilises in an attempt to show us our purpose..I don't know...(well, I have an idea, but now's not the time laugh )...um...it seems silly to me that it is the portal through which these worlds are shared, our language, our methods of conveyance, that are the true problem; that we as individuals could all perfectly synchronise with a spectral myriad of interpolating ideas, more than could ever be known by one alone...that's what society *is*...but, um, language (be it verbal or musical, physical or conceptual) presents us our only barrier...and at the same time our truest form of creativity. It is in attempting to convey ourselves that the truest challenge lies and...well, obviously, that's sure to bring about spectacular effects; be they arguments, wars, insanity...beauty, humour, curiosity...um...no, I don't *expect* anyone to read what I write, but it does me no disservice if I manage to convey myself to only 1% of those I otherwise would (it's the quality, not the quantity wink )..I agree it *would* be discourteous if I wrote in a "difficult" style (I'll trust you've never read Heidegger laugh ) and expected, required or otherwise forced others to read it...but I don't. Indeed, if more people enjoyed, or loved, or found merit in my writing I might become too scared to continue; um...quit while you're ahead and all that palaver. So thank you, dears; you're all managing, in your own ways, to sustain my deficiencies and inadequacies whether you like them or hate them...I just find it a shame that I seem to get to know more about all of you than you I; the sketchy figure from the bushes with the binoculars. Still, um, that figure has its place and I'll take mine ^>^
Xxx
_________________________
Sometimes, we all just need to be shown a little kindness <3

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#2126752 - 08/02/13 02:18 AM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: FSO]
D. S. F. Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/10/10
Posts: 142
All I can say is the person not reading, for whatever reason they are not reading, is missing out on someone utterly unique and interesting - yes, I qualified the word unique which must have no qualification. And look now, a discussion on language may break into a discussion on philosophy! (No expert on philosophy am I.) No matter how skilled our expression, whether in words or musics, there is a level of faith between ourselves which moves our understanding of each other. Andy's mention of relationships is apt, and success here involves not looking inside, but outside ourselves...not merely looking out for our own personal interests, but also for the interests of others...beyond this even, the true, the absolute that is outside linking us all together.

(This may not have as much to do with the evolving conversation, and yet it was inspired by it. I hope I can be granted this license.)
_________________________
Music does not have to be understood;
It has to be listened to.
- Hermann Scherchen.

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#2126761 - 08/02/13 02:39 AM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: FSO]
currawong Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/15/07
Posts: 5932
Loc: Down Under
Just to be perfectly clear - I have no problems at all with the content of F.S.O.'s posts, or the way she expresses herself. It's the format, which my eyes cannot handle. It's not a language issue for me, it's an eyesight issue. Just a few hits of the return key would do it, but I can see that's not going to happen. So I'm not going to try any more. My loss, yes, I know, but like F.S.O. apparently, I can't help it.
_________________________
Du holde Kunst...

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#2126827 - 08/02/13 07:42 AM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: FSO]
FSO Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/03/12
Posts: 854
Loc: UK, Brighton
It's a shame to lose you currawong....though to be honest, I'd have thought you'd have stopped a while ago; thank you for your hard efforts, I appreciate the fault, essentially, lies with me and there it will lay smile Deffles dear, I'm not sure how to license that which I don't own; this conversation is not under copyright, I mean, um, as far as I know...and it's everyone's; if I wanted to get in a huff about deviation from topic I'd have to cast *myself* out most of all...so...there's your licence laugh I'd be a fool not to agree at least half-heartedly with your premise but, I must admit, something in it sits a little uneasily atop the thoughts of how true it is; um...I feel it's in the notions of how one might understand something, were it not already aware of how it relates to the self. I mean, how *can* one understand another person without, at the very least, being able to determine the differences between themselves and their counterpart? It...um...the idea that we are these egocentrical beings, who can't do any a-egoic act or relate to anything other than themselves, sits equally uneasy with ME...but perhaps not from an instinct of its flawedness but rather its truth...um...I *believe* that it's not the case, but can't recognise how it could not be; my belief trumps my logic, fortunately, but this only raises a further, more general worry; is belief merely a diversion from the logical; to believe is surely to "know" something with little to no reason for said belief...um...could it just as easily be replaced with the word "reckon" and, if not, why not? I already know my answers but...I'd be interested to know other people's thoughts. Um...just as a side note, as Deffles brought the magic word into it all, I was a rather promising student of philosophy at university; I adore, beyond most else, how particularly fine answers need to be to assert the essence of the matter and how, at the end of the day, it's all a constructed nonsense laugh Reality will still remain reality (it won't really) regardless of how we think of it...um...it's just kind of nice finding out *which* reality you live in; proper scientists argue it's all the same one, dealing with the things of "reality" whilst their distant cousins deal with the expressions of reality...um...it doesn't appeal to everyone and it's certainly far from useful but...to truly understand *anything* I believe (ME, *I* believe laugh ) you need to either have a moment of genuine, unthinking absolution or a thorough understanding of maths, philosophy, some psychology and a heck of a lot of time on your hands laugh Um...see Deffles; it's fine to divert to or from wherever you want...the conversation is linked and, as such, one could argue that *this* has bearing on the original post, be it in an incredibly abstracted fashion.
Xxx
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Sometimes, we all just need to be shown a little kindness <3

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#2126857 - 08/02/13 09:52 AM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: currawong]
pianoloverus Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19342
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: currawong
Just to be perfectly clear - I have no problems at all with the content of F.S.O.'s posts, or the way she expresses herself. It's the format, which my eyes cannot handle. It's not a language issue for me, it's an eyesight issue. Just a few hits of the return key would do it, but I can see that's not going to happen.
Which IMO indicates disrespect and possibly arrogance towards anyone who might start reading her posts. Similarly, if someone cannot compose posts without the endless ums and smileys, anyone can go back and delete them after writing the post. What can be the possible excuse for not doing that?

I'd say less than 1 in 10 read more than the first sentence or two of these posts. So FSO has to decide whether she wants her posts ignored by the huge majority or whether she is willing to back and edit her posts.


Edited by pianoloverus (08/02/13 09:58 AM)

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#2126862 - 08/02/13 10:14 AM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: pianoloverus]
Nikolas Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 5261
Loc: Europe
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Originally Posted By: currawong
Just to be perfectly clear - I have no problems at all with the content of F.S.O.'s posts, or the way she expresses herself. It's the format, which my eyes cannot handle. It's not a language issue for me, it's an eyesight issue. Just a few hits of the return key would do it, but I can see that's not going to happen.
Which IMO indicates disrespect and possibly arrogance towards anyone who might start reading her posts. Similarly, if someone cannot compose posts without the endless ums and smileys, anyone can go back and delete them after writing the post. What can be the possible excuse for not doing that?

I'd say less than 1 in 10 read more than the first sentence or two of these posts. So FSO has to decide whether she wants her posts ignored by the huge majority or whether she is willing to back and edit her posts.
Well... given the amount of tpyos in my posts I'd say that sometimes people simply can't help it...

I'm Greek, but I've lived in London for 4 years, thus I consider my English to be fine. Yet I fill my posts with either spelling errors, or various tpyos out of haste. And while I know I do it, I don't sit back to edit away those errors. I simply post it! (not to mention that I'm an idiot enough to not remember the difference between below and bellow grin).

Why do you assume that it's FSO's choice? Why do we have to be normal in the way that you, or the majority of people like to?

I can see how a large block of text, with smileys and ums, might turn you, or others away, but so be it... :-/
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http://www.musica-ferrum.com

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#2126884 - 08/02/13 11:09 AM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: FSO]
woodog Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/21/12
Posts: 394
Loc: Bowling Green, KY
wow, I just realized so many composers are disrespectful of me.

You would think they would keep my (very limited) ability in mind.

Forrest
_________________________
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current studies:
Debussy: Suite Bergamasque
Bach 848, 866
Schumann Op. 15

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