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#2126900 - 08/02/13 11:42 AM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: Nikolas]
pianoloverus Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19594
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Nikolas
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Originally Posted By: currawong
Just to be perfectly clear - I have no problems at all with the content of F.S.O.'s posts, or the way she expresses herself. It's the format, which my eyes cannot handle. It's not a language issue for me, it's an eyesight issue. Just a few hits of the return key would do it, but I can see that's not going to happen.
Which IMO indicates disrespect and possibly arrogance towards anyone who might start reading her posts. Similarly, if someone cannot compose posts without the endless ums and smileys, anyone can go back and delete them after writing the post. What can be the possible excuse for not doing that?

I'd say less than 1 in 10 read more than the first sentence or two of these posts. So FSO has to decide whether she wants her posts ignored by the huge majority or whether she is willing to back and edit her posts.
Well... given the amount of tpyos in my posts I'd say that sometimes people simply can't help it...

I'm Greek, but I've lived in London for 4 years, thus I consider my English to be fine. Yet I fill my posts with either spelling errors, or various tpyos out of haste. And while I know I do it, I don't sit back to edit away those errors. I simply post it! (not to mention that I'm an idiot enough to not remember the difference between below and bellow grin).

Why do you assume that it's FSO's choice? Why do we have to be normal in the way that you, or the majority of people like to?

I can see how a large block of text, with smileys and ums, might turn you, or others away, but so be it... :-/
I never had the slightest difficulty reading any of your posts and can't even remember noticing a misspelling. FSO's posts are in a category that none of PW's 50,000 members, including those with minimal knowledge of English, come close to in terms of their difficulty to read.

I understand that it may not be possible for her to compose her posts without all the things that make them virtually unreadable, but I cannot imagine that she couldn't go back and press enter a few times to create paragraphs and press delete enough times to remove ums and smileys. And here I think it's actually discourteous not to do so.

No one "has to be normal in the way the majority of people like", but even though I don't ever get through more than a few sentences I actually find the posts offensive. If someone at a meeting continually got up and spoke unintelligibly, I don't think those at the meeting would just sit there and do nothing after this happened a few times.

I do understand that the likelihood of anything changing here is very small, so this is my last post about this...at least for a month.


Edited by pianoloverus (08/02/13 11:44 AM)

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#2126917 - 08/02/13 12:20 PM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: currawong]
Mark_C Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19850
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: currawong
Just to be perfectly clear - I have no problems at all with the content of F.S.O.'s posts, or the way she expresses herself. It's the format, which my eyes cannot handle. It's not a language issue for me, it's an eyesight issue. Just a few hits of the return key would do it....

FWIW, me too. (Although as per what Plover said, I could also do without the "ums.") grin

And from the other posts here, especially from CinnamonBear, I can see that I might be missing out on some pretty neat things.

I would add (and I wonder if this is true for Curra too) that the "eyesight" thing actually goes a little beyond the purely visual. The lack of more visual organization of the posts is fairly brain-scrambling; the unorganized layout is unsettling to the mind as well as to the eye. It's not that I'm incapable of dealing with unorganized or chaotic stuff, but it feels like work (for me, literally) grin .....and when I'm on here, I don't want to feel like I'm at work.

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#2126952 - 08/02/13 01:29 PM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: FSO]
carey Online   content
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6426
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted By: FSO
Um...just as a side note, as Deffles brought the magic word into it all, I was a rather promising student of philosophy at university; I adore, beyond most else, how particularly fine answers need to be to assert the essence of the matter and how, at the end of the day, it's all a constructed nonsense laugh


Thank you for this. It's all beginning to make sense. wink
_________________________
YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo

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#2126964 - 08/02/13 01:45 PM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: FSO]
carey Online   content
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6426
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
When I choose to read a PW thread, it's usually because I'm interested in the topic. If a complex, rambling post isn't directly related to the thread topic - and requires a great deal of concentration and patience to wade through - then I tend to lose interest and move on to something else. If, by doing so, I miss out on discovering rich hidden meanings and glimpses into the author's soul - so be it.

And by the way, I enjoyed listening to portions of the improvisation. To answer FSO's original question.."Is there any point continuing what I do?" (i.e., the improvisation), I sincerely say......UM... Yes - by all means !! grin
_________________________
YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo

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#2126970 - 08/02/13 02:00 PM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: FSO]
FSO Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/03/12
Posts: 854
Loc: UK, Brighton
skepticalforumguy; I'm sorry, I entirely missed your post! Thank you for the lovely words! I'm afraid that I can't comment on the quality of your improvisations as...well, I know *nothing* of jazz laugh It sounds like jazz though...so...I assume it's good? smile Um...woodog: whilst everyone's talents have a limit, I think to state yours as being very much so is a tad dramatic; who's disrespecting you? I mean, there's nothing I can do about it but assure you that it can't be true; you're too lovely! Pianoloverus....this shall be my only response on the matter; I shan't be driven to emotional ruin like last time. If you don't read it then I quite understand, but I sort of hope you do. I am civil. I am respectful of other people's conditions or desires, impairments and goals. I apologise *all* the time (for instance, the very first post in this thread anticipates this exact event)...um...I'm humble, calm and, generally, will respond to every person who contacts me directly with a personal response. If I feel what I say, if worded poorly, will hurt somebody's feelings I take extra care when choosing each thought I try to put across. Still, you call me arrogant, disrespectful, discourteous...I wouldn't dare say such things about *anyone* let alone someone I don't know! Mark C, for instance, has shown a degree of civility; he's stated, essentially, that he doesn't read my posts...um...that's fine with me; he doesn't read them because they are, basically, not worth the effort. That's plenty fair enough. What you've done is gone out of your way to try and offend me; I like to think that it's just a desperate push to try and make me see things as you see them, to type as you would type and be as you would be. As I've said before, I wish I could be so. Um...you've never believed that and you never will...the problem I have is that I'm starting to suspect this isn't your true motivation; woodog's suggestion that I read the validation manifesto (flawed as it is laugh ) kind of fits the bill (in a ham fisted fashion). Even so, your comparison is bunk and you know it; this is, almost literally, a noticeboard. Beyond that, it's a noticeboard that every person can customise; they can actually choose who can post on their own noticeboard...not that I endorse the ignore button, but if I truly offend you so greatly it *is* there (not that I know where it is; um...I'll never ignore anyone, no matter how virulently hostile or abusive they may be)...um...even without "ignoring" me, people can still ignore me by scrolling down. Furthermore, I see this "few sentences" all the time...how long are paragraphs meant to be? One sentence? Or is it an ill placed "um" that sets your teeth on edge? Frankly, no offence, but if you can't handle a word that you can't quite understand or the notion of reading more than a few sentences without a break "offends" you then I can't imagine a list of good books that you've read...you know, um, the ones without pictures. There, that was me being arrogant, assuming, vindictive and churlish without purpose (though no doubt you've stopped reading); it's pointless, hurtful and sometimes cruel. It's similar to the vast majority of the posts you direct towards me. currawong, Mark C, carey and plenty others have *nicely* indicated my deficiencies. carey even apologised (unnecessarily so, but it was nice); evidently concerned for my feelings as any fully functioning adult would be. Um...you, on the other hand, don't give a flying fridge magnet unless it's forced upon you; I live with a psychopath (not the film type, a real one). You two have some remarkably similar qualities. If you *are* a psychopath that's fine; I'll stop expecting you to care about things that don't directly affect you...um...similarly, if you have Aspergers or schizophrenia I can sympathise or empathise accordingly. What I'm saying is I'll give you an F-ing break. Please, I've previously practically begged to you before snapping my last tether, I'm not like a lot of you...um...that sounded arrogant laugh but I mean; I'm broken in ways you clearly aren't, in ways you didn't think could break, and for F's sake, that's how it is. I've told you this before; you continued to berate me, I believe, leading to some unfortunate emotional disturbance. That shan't happen again. I hope you're well and happy, this of course applying to everyone smile but you don't half know how to push my buttons sometimes (less...less to everyone smile ) I'm sorry for the boring post...I assure you it'll be the last *super* dull one I do and normal dullness will be resumed...
FSO
Xxx
_________________________
Sometimes, we all just need to be shown a little kindness <3

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#2126975 - 08/02/13 02:23 PM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: FSO]
carey Online   content
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6426
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted By: FSO
I'm sorry for the boring post...I assure you it'll be the last *super* dull one I do and normal dullness will be resumed...


Actually I thought the post was really good - one of your best - and easy to read !!!!!! thumb
_________________________
YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo

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#2126987 - 08/02/13 02:45 PM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: carey]
FSO Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/03/12
Posts: 854
Loc: UK, Brighton
Originally Posted By: carey

Actually I thought the post was really good - one of your best - and easy to read !!!!!! thumb

Oh, behave smile Thank you for your answer, for your explanation and, above all, your patience (although maybe, really, your answer smile ). I shouldn't have said what I did just now...um...I...was a tad...not enraged, exactly, but certainly rather hacked off. It was impolite and "discourteous" laugh Um...if that's what it takes to be easy to read...well...that's not great news for someone wink
Xxx
_________________________
Sometimes, we all just need to be shown a little kindness <3

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#2126990 - 08/02/13 02:58 PM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: FSO]
carey Online   content
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6426
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted By: FSO
Originally Posted By: carey

Actually I thought the post was really good - one of your best - and easy to read !!!!!! thumb

Oh, behave smile Thank you for your answer, for your explanation and, above all, your patience (although maybe, really, your answer smile ). I shouldn't have said what I did just now...um...I...was a tad...not enraged, exactly, but certainly rather hacked off. It was impolite and "discourteous" laugh Um...if that's what it takes to be easy to read...well...that's not great news for someone wink
Xxx


Well - the content of the post was one thing ha but the flow of the narrative was much easier to follow - because there was less visual clutter and you clearly had a point to make....great news or not.
_________________________
YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo

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#2126998 - 08/02/13 03:34 PM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: FSO]
FSO Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/03/12
Posts: 854
Loc: UK, Brighton
I must admit, I would consider my prose a lot less cluttered and clearly...point...making, than my music; I'd always been told my narratives in my playing are nigh on *impossible* to follow to the point of incredulity...but...um...maybe there *is* a fundamental difference between these two mediums and how they're interpreted...thank you, I'll be sure to ponder that (as well as upon it laugh ).
Xxx
_________________________
Sometimes, we all just need to be shown a little kindness <3

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#2127191 - 08/02/13 10:21 PM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: FSO]
Cinnamonbear Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 3980
Loc: Rockford, IL
Originally Posted By: FSO
[...] I'd always been told my narratives in my playing are nigh on *impossible* to follow to the point of incredulity[...]


By how many have you been told, FSO? I might suppose that 100% of people who don't read Heidegger might find that to be so. Or, perhaps 98%. (Oh, wait! Quantity does not matter! Is "one" a quantity?) As someone who has read and appreciated "The Wisdom of Insecurity" (not by Heidegger), what *I* observe is that, somehow, you have a firm ability to stay in the present moment to make musical meaning.

What I find interesting about the improvs that I have heard from you is this: they are very consonant, harmonically, even in their most dissonant moments. It's as if you were almost unwilling to explore tension. Hmmm... crazy (If I am hearing this wrong, or too superficially, perhaps you would link to a sonic narrative of yours which, in your estimation, explores significant tension.)

BTW, I am curious about a few of the pictures you have chosen for your youtube vids. Do you know anything about iridology? Yes or no will suffice.

--Andy
_________________________
I may not be fast,
but at least I'm slow.

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#2127217 - 08/02/13 11:19 PM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: Nikolas]
Polyphonist Online   content
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7716
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Nikolas
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Originally Posted By: currawong
Just to be perfectly clear - I have no problems at all with the content of F.S.O.'s posts, or the way she expresses herself. It's the format, which my eyes cannot handle. It's not a language issue for me, it's an eyesight issue. Just a few hits of the return key would do it, but I can see that's not going to happen.
Which IMO indicates disrespect and possibly arrogance towards anyone who might start reading her posts. Similarly, if someone cannot compose posts without the endless ums and smileys, anyone can go back and delete them after writing the post. What can be the possible excuse for not doing that?

I'd say less than 1 in 10 read more than the first sentence or two of these posts. So FSO has to decide whether she wants her posts ignored by the huge majority or whether she is willing to back and edit her posts.
Well... given the amount of tpyos in my posts I'd say that sometimes people simply can't help it...

I'm Greek, but I've lived in London for 4 years, thus I consider my English to be fine. Yet I fill my posts with either spelling errors, or various tpyos out of haste. And while I know I do it, I don't sit back to edit away those errors. I simply post it! (not to mention that I'm an idiot enough to not remember the difference between below and bellow grin).

Why do you assume that it's FSO's choice? Why do we have to be normal in the way that you, or the majority of people like to?

I can see how a large block of text, with smileys and ums, might turn you, or others away, but so be it... :-/

I have never had problems reading your posts, and your English is very good for someone who's not a native speaker. Meanwhile, FSO knows English perfectly well, and yet her posts are a total turn-off for me. Why? Because she just rambles on, instead of taking the time to go back and use her knowledge of English to make her posts readable.
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

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#2127348 - 08/03/13 07:25 AM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: Polyphonist]
wr Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 7981
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Meanwhile, FSO knows English perfectly well, and yet her posts are a total turn-off for me. Why? Because she just rambles on, instead of taking the time to go back and use her knowledge of English to make her posts readable.


They are readable. Maybe not as straightforward as a Nancy Drew or Hardy Boys mystery, or a Dan Brown book, but nevertheless, they are readable. I know, because I can read them. And after reading one or two, the style becomes pretty easy to negotiate.

Whether one wants to read them, or thinks they are worth the negligible effort it takes to do so, is a completely different question.

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#2127367 - 08/03/13 09:12 AM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: Cinnamonbear]
FSO Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/03/12
Posts: 854
Loc: UK, Brighton
Originally Posted By: Cinnamonbear
...what *I* observe is that, somehow, you have a firm ability to stay in the present moment to make musical meaning.

What I find interesting about the improvs that I have heard from you is this: they are very consonant, harmonically, even in their most dissonant moments. It's as if you were almost unwilling to explore tension. Hmmm... crazy (If I am hearing this wrong, or too superficially, perhaps you would link to a sonic narrative of yours which, in your estimation, explores significant tension.)

BTW, I am curious about a few of the pictures you have chosen for your youtube vids. Do you know anything about iridology? Yes or no will suffice.

--Andy

My best friend has noted very similar things, actually laugh Um...there are plenty of moments in the initially posted improvisation that, I believe, avoid consonance entirely...but it's *really* long, so it's bound to laugh Of course I wouldn't dare suggest that you're hearing it wrong...I mean, um, it'd make more sense to say that I'm not communicating the message effectively (perfectly possible, given that I'm not a hybrid of Gould and Satie)...room for improvement is always a blessing ^>^ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aK-4zhOZ-NE is what I first thought of when reading your bracketed sentence....I feel there is so much tension in the majority of my pieces but, um, maybe *musically* there isn't laugh See...I feel much more tension in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJ85aFfsAgM and less in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyMwNC2_cpM ....maybe there is; I'm too uneducated to know smile The problem with playing as I do is that I struggle to do anything *good*...I think (hope?) it's very organic, natural or otherwise...you know...accurate? Um...I try and put across an impression; the exact details don't really matter to me...and I usually go on too long laugh Iridology? I *love* the idea but I've never formally studied it (unlike...*cough* chiromancy...); the eyes reveal more than any other part of the human body, it would make sense that you could determine *something* about it from their expression and idioms, flecks and flaws...um...the problem with, you know, the "made up paranormal pseudo-scientific waffle" is that it doesn't know when to stop; this doesn't mean some parts of it aren't right. Logically, *everything* in the universe affects everything else in the universe...so...it would make sense that you can determine something from something "unrelated"...um...I don't know...to answer your question, yes smile Thank you...for saying I manage to stay in the present moment...that's exactly the vague, wishy-washy, not quite determinable quality that I hope to achieve ^>^
Xxx
_________________________
Sometimes, we all just need to be shown a little kindness <3

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#2127372 - 08/03/13 09:27 AM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: Cinnamonbear]
FSO Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/03/12
Posts: 854
Loc: UK, Brighton
Originally Posted By: Cinnamonbear

By how many have you been told, FSO? I might suppose that 100% of people who don't read Heidegger might find that to be so. Or, perhaps 98%. (Oh, wait! Quantity does not matter! Is "one" a quantity?)
--Andy

When quantity does not matter, surely one is as many as all? Um...it was the head of music at my school who really got to me, but a few other teachers commented (after playing a composition in a school concert) on the few "bum notes" I could get away with...a lot of the students who heard them had a thing or two to say too...I've never studied music but, to me, musical lines appear that just make sense...um...only, other people don't hear them, or think they're just mess...I'd be remiss if I weren't to consider this, at least in part, the source of my musical insecurity regarding the validity of my harmonic language. Where others learnt to get used to atonality, I had to learn to use consonance...um...perhaps I overcompensate as a matter of course, who knows. It doesn't *really* matter...it is how it is; we can all but try do as we will, the consequences and results...well, damn them, they are as a result of our expression; be they rubbish or "good", surely they can't help but be true?
_________________________
Sometimes, we all just need to be shown a little kindness <3

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#2127398 - 08/03/13 10:57 AM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: wr]
Tim Adrianson Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/10
Posts: 1102
wr, I'll join you and CinnamonBear on FSO's defense team. My added contribution is that her style seems to me quintessentially English, albeit in a dated manner, and is for that reason quite charming to me. Frankly, I've always been rather envious of the English ability to convey thoughts in this fashion -- a really quite complicated but lyrical mode of expression that clearly IS done "on the spot" -- i.e., a verbal improvisation. And it is amusing to me that a few are just downright pissed off about this style -- that's SO American in attitude: the insistence that communication MUST be terse and plain-spoken, and that no embellishment whatever is to be trusted, or broached. I count myself among those who would never write the way FSO does, but for me it's because I don't have the same facility with elegant turns of phrase -- not because, to use dated English parlance, EVER SO NAUGHTY to express oneself in this manner.

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#2127489 - 08/03/13 02:16 PM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: FSO]
Old Man Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/04/12
Posts: 778
Loc: Michigan, USA
Everything I've read of FSO's posts tells me she needs no "defense team", so I'll just speak for me.

I can only echo Tim's thought -- "Charming as all get out" is the colloquialism that comes to my mind when reading FSO's posts. Unlike some of her critics, what confounds me is not her "locutions", but her thoughts, her intellect. She simply thinks deeper thoughts than I do. I too am slow (by comparison, Cinnamon Bear is a bullet train), so reading FSO can be challenging. Hers is a "mind ablaze", and that's why I think her stream-of-consciousness style suits her perfectly. And I don't expect, or even want her slowing down for me or anyone else. She could purge every emoticon, indent every paragraph, space every paragraph, and perfectly punctuate every sentence, and I'm afraid I'd still find myself left in the dust more often than not. But that's okay. It never hurts to read that last sentence just one more time. smile

Yet I never fail to read FSO's posts. And when I've had a rotten work day, and my eyes light upon that splay of emoticons, ums, and asterisks, even before I've read a single word, I can't help but break out in a grin -- perspective reclaimed. And that by itself is more than enough for me. So FSO, should you ever have the slightest inclination that you just might possibly perhaps some day wish to relent, and assuage your critics, perish the thought immediately! Or you'll have the image of one very sad old man indelibly etched on your conscience. laugh


Edited by Old Man (08/03/13 02:18 PM)

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#2127611 - 08/03/13 06:55 PM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: Mark_C]
currawong Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/15/07
Posts: 5965
Loc: Down Under
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
I would add (and I wonder if this is true for Curra too) that the "eyesight" thing actually goes a little beyond the purely visual. The lack of more visual organization of the posts is fairly brain-scrambling; the unorganized layout is unsettling to the mind as well as to the eye. It's not that I'm incapable of dealing with unorganized or chaotic stuff, but it feels like work (for me, literally) grin .....and when I'm on here, I don't want to feel like I'm at work.
I thought about this for a while, Mark, and I don't think this is the case for me. I tend to try to write clearly myself (it's not really just an American thing, is it Tim? I'm definitely not American smile ) but I don't mind the chaotic aspects of F.S.O.'s posts - it's not like there's no content!

It is purely visual for me. It hurts, in the same way that PianoStreet's white on black hurts, in the same way that trying to read tiny print hurts. The ums are only a problem because when I land on one I tend to lose the place and re-land on another instead. I'm not visually impaired to any great extent, but I do have some vision loss in one eye, and a few other problems. I don't like pain (pain hurts!) so that's why I've decided to give up. I kind of resent the implication in a few others' posts that this is because of lack of patience and/or effort. As I said, I don't like pain. I can see and understand that F.S.O. has some pain of her own, and I'm not going to add to it by griping any more.
_________________________
Du holde Kunst...

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#2127631 - 08/03/13 07:30 PM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: currawong]
Mark_C Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19850
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: currawong
It is purely visual for me. It hurts, in the same way that PianoStreet's white on black hurts....

I share that issue -- in fact, regarding any dark-colored background for the text. More and more magazines (and the like) seem to have become fond of having some articles with that feature, and I pretty much just can't deal with them. I rarely read them at all, and if something seems too important or interesting to ignore, I still can only give it the briefest look.

Why do they do that? (PianoStreet or anyone else.) Do a lot of people find it more interesting or appealing? Does it grab attention better than dark-on-light? I can't imagine it's because anyone finds it easier to read, and some of us find it a lot harder. I've been close to writing to publications about this a few times....

P.S. I don't belong to PianoStreet but for a different reason: they require having Private Messaging. I did join, then saw that there's no option to disable it, and had my membership removed.

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#2127683 - 08/03/13 09:31 PM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: Mark_C]
currawong Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/15/07
Posts: 5965
Loc: Down Under
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Why do they do that? (PianoStreet or anyone else.)
Because them wot makes the decisions are younger than 45. laugh
_________________________
Du holde Kunst...

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#2127695 - 08/03/13 09:53 PM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: currawong]
D. S. F. Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/10/10
Posts: 144
Wow, I am learning a lot here. I did not know a dark background causes so much problems. I actually thought that was more comfortable on the eye, because there is so much less light coming back at you...that's what I thought would strain the eye. Every blog page I've ever had was white words on a dark page...oh boy...
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Music does not have to be understood;
It has to be listened to.
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#2127701 - 08/03/13 10:05 PM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: D. S. F.]
pianoloverus Offline
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Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19594
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: D. S. F.
Wow, I am learning a lot here. I did not know a dark background causes so much problems. I actually thought that was more comfortable on the eye, because there is so much less light coming back at you...that's what I thought would strain the eye. Every blog page I've ever had was white words on a dark page...oh boy...
A dark background causes problems for some people. I prefer it and selected the white print on a black background for my viewing of PW.

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#2127839 - 08/04/13 07:41 AM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: currawong]
wr Offline
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Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 7981
Originally Posted By: currawong
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
I would add (and I wonder if this is true for Curra too) that the "eyesight" thing actually goes a little beyond the purely visual. The lack of more visual organization of the posts is fairly brain-scrambling; the unorganized layout is unsettling to the mind as well as to the eye. It's not that I'm incapable of dealing with unorganized or chaotic stuff, but it feels like work (for me, literally) grin .....and when I'm on here, I don't want to feel like I'm at work.
I thought about this for a while, Mark, and I don't think this is the case for me. I tend to try to write clearly myself (it's not really just an American thing, is it Tim? I'm definitely not American smile ) but I don't mind the chaotic aspects of F.S.O.'s posts - it's not like there's no content!

It is purely visual for me. It hurts, in the same way that PianoStreet's white on black hurts, in the same way that trying to read tiny print hurts. The ums are only a problem because when I land on one I tend to lose the place and re-land on another instead. I'm not visually impaired to any great extent, but I do have some vision loss in one eye, and a few other problems. I don't like pain (pain hurts!) so that's why I've decided to give up. I kind of resent the implication in a few others' posts that this is because of lack of patience and/or effort. As I said, I don't like pain. I can see and understand that F.S.O. has some pain of her own, and I'm not going to add to it by griping any more.



It has occurred to me that, for some, the visual problem with reading FSO's posts may be something that is specific to the display settings of their monitor and other options found in their browsers.

We are not all seeing the same thing, so it is probably a mistake to talk as if we were.

I know that my own comfort level with viewing large chunks of unformatted text has a lot to do with those settings, and maybe it just happens that my current monitor/browser settings work fairly well for those posts. But I'm in the habit of tweaking fonts, font sizes and/or the window size if I run into visual problems. I'm not sure if others do the same, but it can be very helpful. For example, long lines of text can be a visual problem for me, so I got into the habit of resizing the window to make them shorter when I need to.

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#2127841 - 08/04/13 07:45 AM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: wr]
currawong Offline
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Registered: 05/15/07
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Loc: Down Under
Originally Posted By: wr
For example, long lines of text can be a visual problem for me, so I got into the habit of resizing the window to make them shorter when I need to.
Sort of Gyro-format? laugh
Actually, those are good points, wr, and some good ideas. I might play around with it. Have to admit I'd never thought of it.
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#2127897 - 08/04/13 10:50 AM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: wr]
carey Online   content
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Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6426
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted By: wr
It has occurred to me that, for some, the visual problem with reading FSO's posts may be something that is specific to the display settings of their monitor and other options found in their browsers.

We are not all seeing the same thing, so it is probably a mistake to talk as if we were.

I know that my own comfort level with viewing large chunks of unformatted text has a lot to do with those settings, and maybe it just happens that my current monitor/browser settings work fairly well for those posts. But I'm in the habit of tweaking fonts, font sizes and/or the window size if I run into visual problems. I'm not sure if others do the same, but it can be very helpful. For example, long lines of text can be a visual problem for me, so I got into the habit of resizing the window to make them shorter when I need to.

The same thing finally occurred to me as well. My own visual challenges (I see a Retina Specialist every six weeks - which involves shots, laser treatments, etc. to help prevent further visual deterioration and distortion) make it challenging to navigate through the visual clutter of FSO's posts that I alluded to earlier in this thread. My eyes (and brain) have to work very hard just to see things "normally." Perhaps it is time for me to give in and start experimenting with font size, window size, background color, etc. Fortunately, I have a much easier time reading musical notation than straight lines of text - even though the notes don't appear as "crisp and clear" as they used to, and reading the printed editorial "fingerings" is almost impossible.

So, no, we are not seeing the same thing. And for each of us, perception is reality. Therefore, perhaps we (and I include myself in this) all need to try to be a little more tolerant and understanding of the perspectives of others.


Edited by carey (08/04/13 10:53 AM)
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#2127918 - 08/04/13 12:13 PM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: FSO]
Damon Online   happy
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Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 6226
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I might have guessed that the length of this thread was due to the OP's writing style as opposed to her improv. laugh Personally, she lost me at um.
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#2127920 - 08/04/13 12:14 PM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: wr]
Mark_C Online   content
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Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19850
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: wr
It has occurred to me that, for some, the visual problem with reading FSO's posts may be something that is specific to the display settings of their monitor and other options found in their browsers.

We are not all seeing the same thing, so it is probably a mistake to talk as if we were.....

Three things:

-- We're not talking as though we're all seeing the same thing, but in any event in terms of things relevant to what I was talking about, I'd guess that we essentially are, except for whatever color selections we choose. I do see that it might be otherwise for Curra's concerns.

-- Anyway the two of us are talking just about ourselves, not about anyone else, except to the extent that I'm guessing we're not the only people in the world to whom these kinds of things apply.

Quote:
I'm in the habit of tweaking fonts, font sizes and/or the window size if I run into visual problems. I'm not sure if others do the same....

I do, a lot, and it doesn't affect what I was talking about.

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#2128510 - 08/05/13 01:42 PM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: FSO]
FSO Offline
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Registered: 04/03/12
Posts: 854
Loc: UK, Brighton
Aww...there's been a lot of aww to feel..so thank you, for making me feel unexpectedly better about...a lot, really laugh I shan't ever expect anyone to fiddle about with formatting on my behalf; that's pushing the limits on lengthy a step too far really is, but, um, I don't mind conceding that I could be difficult for some. Just...all I could ever hope to ask is that everyone's nice about whatever they have to say...*that*, I hope, might make things easier to swallow, even if no less difficult to swallow...I mean, um, poor stores dear gets it in the neck...he dishes it out perhaps even stronger smile but even so, I can't feel bad about how *how he writes* grants him such a negative recoil...but anyway, um, thank you, generally, for being lovely...
Xxx
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Sometimes, we all just need to be shown a little kindness <3

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#2131134 - 08/11/13 08:48 AM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: FSO]
Michael Sayers Offline
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Registered: 02/15/13
Posts: 1244
Loc: Stockholms lšn, Sverige
Greetings,

The improvisation is tremendous especially with its implicit range of tone colour if one listens long enough.

There isn't anything wrong with the duration, Sorabji's Opus Clavicembalisticum is hours long. Here is a recording of the opening 15 minutes, I think you might like it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8LALbLMlH4

What is amazing is that you can keep your focus for so long improvising in one sitting (I assume that is what this is)!


M.

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#2131471 - 08/11/13 11:55 PM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: FSO]
FSO Offline
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Registered: 04/03/12
Posts: 854
Loc: UK, Brighton
Thank you Michael, that's very kind of you to say...that particular work is what actually brought me here; a search yielded this site as some form of resource as, at the time, I was rather...enamoured with it (I love Powell's interpretation <3). Personally I find longer works much more satisfying, but, um, especially, I believe, in more recent times attention spans have waned a tad and anything over, say, a couple of hours is scarcely listened to...but, really, um, surely many of the pianists here have improvised for dozens of hours at a time; if not, certainly they'll have practiced for this long and, really, I find *that* amazing laugh Thank you, though...it was sweet of you to say...
Xxx
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Sometimes, we all just need to be shown a little kindness <3

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#2131558 - 08/12/13 06:43 AM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: Michael Sayers]
wr Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 7981
Originally Posted By: Michael Sayers


There isn't anything wrong with the duration, Sorabji's Opus Clavicembalisticum is hours long.


Which is like saying there's nothing wrong with the duration, because, after all, people have spent years in a persistent vegetative state.

(And just to make sure people don't get it wrong - the comparison I am making is to OC, and not to FSO's improv)


Edited by wr (08/12/13 07:14 AM)

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