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#2123936 - 07/27/13 07:27 PM It's another improvisation I'm afraid
FSO Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/03/12
Posts: 854
Loc: UK, Brighton
My question is not "is this good", but rather if there's any point continuing doing what I do. Um...as with all music the true impression isn't garnered without listening to the whole thing but...well, um, if you follow the link you'll see why I don't expect *anyone* to do that laugh http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=bOodbJ1Igbc&t=23589 I tried to get across the notion of thinking of home in a rather...well, hostile environment...you know, bittersweet wholesome...ness... laugh In everything past 6:46 the theme really starts distending (though it does go for a few more minutes...but then it came before and the like...urgh, I don't know smile )so...if you don't shut it off by then, don't bother with the rest laugh Um...I don't know....I try not to be an insecure duckling but...I mean, if there's *no* point in doing this rubbish then there's a chance that should I redirect my energies I might do something...meaningful? I don't know...um...just...yes, I suppose it's insecurity about purpose; I don't care if I'm just terrible, the direction matters to me though...advice would be lovely laugh Criticism would be lovely also...I don't know. Thank you for reading down here; I hope you're well, happy and have a lovely day and night.
FSO
Xxx
P.S. Sorry for...yes, all the things I should be sorry for in this instance laugh
_________________________
Sometimes, we all just need to be shown a little kindness <3

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#2124544 - 07/29/13 12:46 AM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: FSO]
D. S. F. Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/10/10
Posts: 144
"Deffles" here. I will say the title and description do not invite the most confidence, and listening as I am listening, you need not be in such self deprecating despair. Improvisation is a special realm, and it has always been my most natural reaction to sitting down at a keyboard. Whether exploring technical or harmonic possibilities, or simply getting lost in the wanderings of an open structure, I think it is an essential element in the life of a musician, though oft neglected it may be. There is a lot I could say about all that...but listening as I am, I do see value in what you are doing, and would encourage you to continue. And that not merely for your own mind, I find it on a night as tonight very welcome listening. I am quite used to unrelenting walls of sound and tend to gravitate towards them, so I can well relate to the honesty of the tension/release found in your music. Yes, keep going.
_________________________
Music does not have to be understood;
It has to be listened to.
- Hermann Scherchen.

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#2124948 - 07/29/13 06:11 PM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: D. S. F.]
FSO Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/03/12
Posts: 854
Loc: UK, Brighton
Aww! Deffles, you remembered! <3 I, too, find improvisation to be the most natural way of musicing (it's a word now...right? laugh ); the idea of doing the same thing over and over seems so difficult and alien...but, um, that's what discipline's for, isn't it? That's where all my worry comes from (well...it's probably something to do with my father or some nonsense, but anyway - ); surely there's a fine line between being improvisational at heart and just being lazy...or, at least, too carefree. Besides, one may be improvisational at heart but genuinely just be rubbish at it...so...um...thank you; your words meant a lot to me...well, mean a lot to me, and I'll try and be less of a silly sausage in future (though, undoubtedly, I will fail at that {too wink } )...thank you, really.
Xxxx
_________________________
Sometimes, we all just need to be shown a little kindness <3

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#2124970 - 07/29/13 07:06 PM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: FSO]
beet31425 Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/09
Posts: 3819
Loc: Bay Area, CA
FSO... Is this video 12 hours of you improvising at the piano?


-J
_________________________
Schubert: Bb Impromptu D.935/3; Mozart: D minor concerto; Chopin: first Ballade

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#2125141 - 07/30/13 05:01 AM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: FSO]
FSO Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/03/12
Posts: 854
Loc: UK, Brighton
....Well, not quite that long; let's not surrender to hyperbole...but yes laugh
_________________________
Sometimes, we all just need to be shown a little kindness <3

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#2125173 - 07/30/13 08:10 AM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: FSO]
woodog Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/21/12
Posts: 415
Loc: Bowling Green, KY
Improvisation is a part of me.

I do not care about the validation*, although it IS nice to get it, but instead ask myself.

What do I want from it? (self realization)
Am I getting that? yes
What would I be doing if not that? (watching Elimidate or Room Raiders and eating corn chips**)

Forrest

* Do a Google Search on the following phrase 'The Validation Manifesto' and look for the result from 'Stank'

cynical yet spot on - I will not link to it from here, since it uses harsh language to make a good point.

** not really *cough*.. as I've NEVER EVER ever done anything so completely without merit *cough*
_________________________
-------------------
current studies:
Debussy: Suite Bergamasque
Bach 848, 866
Schumann Op. 15

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#2125444 - 07/30/13 05:53 PM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: FSO]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7648
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: FSO
....Well, not quite that long; let's not surrender to hyperbole...but yes laugh

All right, let me make the correction for beet: Is this video 11 hours, 39 minutes, and 15 seconds of you improvising at the piano? laugh
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

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#2125473 - 07/30/13 06:24 PM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: Polyphonist]
beet31425 Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/09
Posts: 3819
Loc: Bay Area, CA
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: FSO
....Well, not quite that long; let's not surrender to hyperbole...but yes laugh

All right, let me make the correction for beet: Is this video 11 hours, 39 minutes, and 15 seconds of you improvising at the piano? laugh

Yeah, I exaggerated by only 3%!

Anyway, FSO, I can't say that I really *listened* to any large part of it. But it certainly wasn't the uninteresting pretty treacle one usually hears. There were actual ideas here, presented with real force.

You're clearly capable of generating ideas, like a volcano generating magma. Now comes the real work: can you shape these ideas into something enduring?

-J
_________________________
Schubert: Bb Impromptu D.935/3; Mozart: D minor concerto; Chopin: first Ballade

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#2125474 - 07/30/13 06:29 PM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: FSO]
Tim Adrianson Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/10
Posts: 1077
FSO, one thing I was curious about -- I briefly checked out a number of your other improvisations, and a lot of them (including this one) seem to allude to Russian subject matter of different sorts. Since you are presently living in England, is there a reason for that -- i.e., do you or your parents/grandparents originally come from Russia? Just curious.

I confess to being about, oh, 178 degrees or so apart from you on the pursuit of improvisation. I really LIKE working from scores, and doing things over and over again -- and I couldn't imagine myself creating stream-of-consciousness soundscapes out of whole cloth -- which, to gather from the number of improvisations you have committed to YouTube, appears to be an all-consuming interest for you. The closest I've seen to what you do is the "jazz" pianist Marilyn Crispell -- and I put the "jazz" in quotation marks because her style is much more free form -- sometimes very lyrical, sometimes jagged and dissonant -- but always with logical associative referents. You might check her out, if you're so inclined.

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#2125555 - 07/30/13 09:36 PM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: FSO]
FSO Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/03/12
Posts: 854
Loc: UK, Brighton
Um...okay, beet: I can't, no. I mean, it used to be what I tried to do but...I took a knock. I mean, my whole musical life (a mere 8 years, beginning by playing a piano in the school hall, being thrown off whenever caught, and not being allowed by my father to learn music as it is "impractical"; um, it wasn't until maybe half a year after playing that I learnt of classical music [having, until that point, found music rather empty and not paying it any attention], by which point I'd already...well, as "they" put it, poisoned myself with dissonance, which obviously required firm stamping out) people have criticised my compositions; after a particularly vicious verbal barrage I kind of...well...snapped a bit (not in a violent way though laugh ). I've not "composed" since; general ideas and putting them together in my head before sitting down, yes, but, um, notating anything? No. Still, the impressions rush through me like...some kind of simile, but I'm not a musician, certainly I'm no composer and my technique is, how the French say, marred laugh I'm a chronic impressionist and maybe I always was; my compositions must have been slated for some reason. Um...ideas, hmm, maybe (thank you though, you really are sweet you know ^>^ ), force and passion I have but...um...something enduring? I'd love few things more...really few, actually; to be able to touch someone after I've passed and maybe, just maybe, heal them if they're hurting...to add some kind of true transcendental beauty to the universe rather than just sponging it all up? Nothing could be better, really...um...I'm just not good enough. But isn't that what we all want? I don't know...I don't wish to speak for anyone but...is it not? Isn't that why we try? And why we can't not? (Woodog, I think that inadvertently answers all your questions from my perspective smile I'll be sure to read the manifesto, don't you fret; thanks for the suggestion!) To try and reach that elusive pool that holds even just a glimmer of emotion, whichever one it may be, and distil it into music so that anyone can hear it...so difficult to reach though, so slippery and far away; the trek shrouded in a foggy haze-like smokey mire...some people manage to stride through confidently though whilst so many just stumble around in circles... frown Um...anyway, short answer; I really don't think so...I hope I can and so...well, I ask for help along the way, just to make sure I'm facing the right direction, even if I'll never make it. As I mentioned, your words meant a lot. Um...Tim! laugh That's an exceptional observation! Just...um...staggered...frankly laugh I...well, I was born in Germany, lived there briefly before moving to Scotland, then England...um...I have no Russian relatives or anything of the sort...but I just feel *so* Slavic...I always have, ever since I first learnt about Russia when I was, what, seven or eight years old? I don't know...when *do* people learn about other countries generally? Just...without going into my whole belief system, which is probably the most simply complex thing I've ever developed, it can make sense to me. Um...I feel it's just where I'm from, you know? Maybe you don't...knowing without reason to know, just...a feeling laugh Also, the Cyrillic Dreams are Bulgarian; I was having particularly vivid dreams that presented themselves as a tapestry of Bulgarian words (Bulgarian being the nationality of my best friend's only real romantic love)...um...I just...I've read so many documents on Russian lifestyles, etiquette of past and present, history and so forth...um...it's just slightly different from a fascination and I can't *explain* how laugh Amazing perception though....I'll keep my eye on that laugh Um...yes, we really are different in our approach; I can perhaps recognise how working on the same thing and improving it could be incredibly rewarding...but yeesh! I can't manage it; more power to you! I keep Youtube as a sort of public diary; I can access it from anywhere in the world (as can my best friend and anyone with a weak grasp on what they *should* be listening to laugh ) and...sort of feel how I did at that time, by listening. It also helps to see some kind of progression; it's nice to look back a year or so and see how I did things differently, hopefully worse, usually I pessimistically focus on how much better I *was* (not that my uneducated mind could really tell laugh )...um...I think it's the kind of thing real musicians (who improvise, of course) should do...it'd be interesting to hear...maybe I'm wrong laugh As it turns out, I *was* so inclined and have been listening whilst typing this tediously long response; so a fair listen laugh Specifically, her Vignettes..."album"? She's quite alright; I'm sure I wouldn't agree with her being labelled a jazz musician either; very good at playing the same pitch I note (or is that; the same note, I pitch? laugh )...gosh, this reply really got out of hand I feel, um...thank you, for the interest and...well, for the important correction, Polyphonist laugh I mean, without that...well, it'd just be a shambles...ta, all!
<3
Xxxx
_________________________
Sometimes, we all just need to be shown a little kindness <3

Top
#2126011 - 07/31/13 05:22 PM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: FSO]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7648
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: FSO
Um...okay, beet: I can't, no. I mean, it used to be what I tried to do but...I took a knock. I mean, my whole musical life (a mere 8 years, beginning by playing a piano in the school hall, being thrown off whenever caught, and not being allowed by my father to learn music as it is "impractical"; um, it wasn't until maybe half a year after playing that I learnt of classical music [having, until that point, found music rather empty and not paying it any attention], by which point I'd already...well, as "they" put it, poisoned myself with dissonance, which obviously required firm stamping out) people have criticised my compositions; after a particularly vicious verbal barrage I kind of...well...snapped a bit (not in a violent way though laugh ). I've not "composed" since; general ideas and putting them together in my head before sitting down, yes, but, um, notating anything? No. Still, the impressions rush through me like...some kind of simile, but I'm not a musician, certainly I'm no composer and my technique is, how the French say, marred laugh I'm a chronic impressionist and maybe I always was; my compositions must have been slated for some reason. Um...ideas, hmm, maybe (thank you though, you really are sweet you know ^>^ ), force and passion I have but...um...something enduring? I'd love few things more...really few, actually; to be able to touch someone after I've passed and maybe, just maybe, heal them if they're hurting...to add some kind of true transcendental beauty to the universe rather than just sponging it all up? Nothing could be better, really...um...I'm just not good enough. But isn't that what we all want? I don't know...I don't wish to speak for anyone but...is it not? Isn't that why we try? And why we can't not? (Woodog, I think that inadvertently answers all your questions from my perspective smile I'll be sure to read the manifesto, don't you fret; thanks for the suggestion!) To try and reach that elusive pool that holds even just a glimmer of emotion, whichever one it may be, and distil it into music so that anyone can hear it...so difficult to reach though, so slippery and far away; the trek shrouded in a foggy haze-like smokey mire...some people manage to stride through confidently though whilst so many just stumble around in circles... frown Um...anyway, short answer; I really don't think so...I hope I can and so...well, I ask for help along the way, just to make sure I'm facing the right direction, even if I'll never make it. As I mentioned, your words meant a lot. Um...Tim! laugh That's an exceptional observation! Just...um...staggered...frankly laugh I...well, I was born in Germany, lived there briefly before moving to Scotland, then England...um...I have no Russian relatives or anything of the sort...but I just feel *so* Slavic...I always have, ever since I first learnt about Russia when I was, what, seven or eight years old? I don't know...when *do* people learn about other countries generally? Just...without going into my whole belief system, which is probably the most simply complex thing I've ever developed, it can make sense to me. Um...I feel it's just where I'm from, you know? Maybe you don't...knowing without reason to know, just...a feeling laugh Also, the Cyrillic Dreams are Bulgarian; I was having particularly vivid dreams that presented themselves as a tapestry of Bulgarian words (Bulgarian being the nationality of my best friend's only real romantic love)...um...I just...I've read so many documents on Russian lifestyles, etiquette of past and present, history and so forth...um...it's just slightly different from a fascination and I can't *explain* how laugh Amazing perception though....I'll keep my eye on that laugh Um...yes, we really are different in our approach; I can perhaps recognise how working on the same thing and improving it could be incredibly rewarding...but yeesh! I can't manage it; more power to you! I keep Youtube as a sort of public diary; I can access it from anywhere in the world (as can my best friend and anyone with a weak grasp on what they *should* be listening to laugh ) and...sort of feel how I did at that time, by listening. It also helps to see some kind of progression; it's nice to look back a year or so and see how I did things differently, hopefully worse, usually I pessimistically focus on how much better I *was* (not that my uneducated mind could really tell laugh )...um...I think it's the kind of thing real musicians (who improvise, of course) should do...it'd be interesting to hear...maybe I'm wrong laugh As it turns out, I *was* so inclined and have been listening whilst typing this tediously long response; so a fair listen laugh Specifically, her Vignettes..."album"? She's quite alright; I'm sure I wouldn't agree with her being labelled a jazz musician either; very good at playing the same pitch I note (or is that; the same note, I pitch? laugh )...gosh, this reply really got out of hand I feel, um...thank you, for the interest and...well, for the important correction, Polyphonist laugh I mean, without that...well, it'd just be a shambles...ta, all!
<3
Xxxx

Try paragraphs next time. wink laugh grin
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

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#2126099 - 07/31/13 08:20 PM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: Polyphonist]
carey Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6377
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: FSO
Um...okay, beet: I can't, no. I mean, it used to be what I tried to do but...I took a knock. I mean, my whole musical life (a mere 8 years, beginning by playing a piano in the school hall, being thrown off whenever caught, and not being allowed by my father to learn music as it is "impractical"; um, it wasn't until maybe half a year after playing that I learnt of classical music [having, until that point, found music rather empty and not paying it any attention], by which point I'd already...well, as "they" put it, poisoned myself with dissonance, which obviously required firm stamping out) people have criticised my compositions; after a particularly vicious verbal barrage I kind of...well...snapped a bit (not in a violent way though laugh ). I've not "composed" since; general ideas and putting them together in my head before sitting down, yes, but, um, notating anything? No. Still, the impressions rush through me like...some kind of simile, but I'm not a musician, certainly I'm no composer and my technique is, how the French say, marred laugh I'm a chronic impressionist and maybe I always was; my compositions must have been slated for some reason. Um...ideas, hmm, maybe (thank you though, you really are sweet you know ^>^ ), force and passion I have but...um...something enduring? I'd love few things more...really few, actually; to be able to touch someone after I've passed and maybe, just maybe, heal them if they're hurting...to add some kind of true transcendental beauty to the universe rather than just sponging it all up? Nothing could be better, really...um...I'm just not good enough. But isn't that what we all want? I don't know...I don't wish to speak for anyone but...is it not? Isn't that why we try? And why we can't not? (Woodog, I think that inadvertently answers all your questions from my perspective smile I'll be sure to read the manifesto, don't you fret; thanks for the suggestion!) To try and reach that elusive pool that holds even just a glimmer of emotion, whichever one it may be, and distil it into music so that anyone can hear it...so difficult to reach though, so slippery and far away; the trek shrouded in a foggy haze-like smokey mire...some people manage to stride through confidently though whilst so many just stumble around in circles... frown Um...anyway, short answer; I really don't think so...I hope I can and so...well, I ask for help along the way, just to make sure I'm facing the right direction, even if I'll never make it. As I mentioned, your words meant a lot. Um...Tim! laugh That's an exceptional observation! Just...um...staggered...frankly laugh I...well, I was born in Germany, lived there briefly before moving to Scotland, then England...um...I have no Russian relatives or anything of the sort...but I just feel *so* Slavic...I always have, ever since I first learnt about Russia when I was, what, seven or eight years old? I don't know...when *do* people learn about other countries generally? Just...without going into my whole belief system, which is probably the most simply complex thing I've ever developed, it can make sense to me. Um...I feel it's just where I'm from, you know? Maybe you don't...knowing without reason to know, just...a feeling laugh Also, the Cyrillic Dreams are Bulgarian; I was having particularly vivid dreams that presented themselves as a tapestry of Bulgarian words (Bulgarian being the nationality of my best friend's only real romantic love)...um...I just...I've read so many documents on Russian lifestyles, etiquette of past and present, history and so forth...um...it's just slightly different from a fascination and I can't *explain* how laugh Amazing perception though....I'll keep my eye on that laugh Um...yes, we really are different in our approach; I can perhaps recognise how working on the same thing and improving it could be incredibly rewarding...but yeesh! I can't manage it; more power to you! I keep Youtube as a sort of public diary; I can access it from anywhere in the world (as can my best friend and anyone with a weak grasp on what they *should* be listening to laugh ) and...sort of feel how I did at that time, by listening. It also helps to see some kind of progression; it's nice to look back a year or so and see how I did things differently, hopefully worse, usually I pessimistically focus on how much better I *was* (not that my uneducated mind could really tell laugh )...um...I think it's the kind of thing real musicians (who improvise, of course) should do...it'd be interesting to hear...maybe I'm wrong laugh As it turns out, I *was* so inclined and have been listening whilst typing this tediously long response; so a fair listen laugh Specifically, her Vignettes..."album"? She's quite alright; I'm sure I wouldn't agree with her being labelled a jazz musician either; very good at playing the same pitch I note (or is that; the same note, I pitch? laugh )...gosh, this reply really got out of hand I feel, um...thank you, for the interest and...well, for the important correction, Polyphonist laugh I mean, without that...well, it'd just be a shambles...ta, all!
<3
Xxxx

Try paragraphs next time. wink laugh grin


Yes - in addition to paragraphs, please try canning the "stream of consciousness" writing style - along with all the "ums" - and perhaps more folks will actually read your posts. Quite frankly, I simply can't get past the first few sentences. Sorry. crazy


Edited by carey (07/31/13 08:30 PM)
_________________________
YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo

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#2126139 - 07/31/13 10:16 PM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: carey]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7648
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: carey
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: FSO
Um...okay, beet: I can't, no. I mean, it used to be what I tried to do but...I took a knock. I mean, my whole musical life (a mere 8 years, beginning by playing a piano in the school hall, being thrown off whenever caught, and not being allowed by my father to learn music as it is "impractical"; um, it wasn't until maybe half a year after playing that I learnt of classical music [having, until that point, found music rather empty and not paying it any attention], by which point I'd already...well, as "they" put it, poisoned myself with dissonance, which obviously required firm stamping out) people have criticised my compositions; after a particularly vicious verbal barrage I kind of...well...snapped a bit (not in a violent way though laugh ). I've not "composed" since; general ideas and putting them together in my head before sitting down, yes, but, um, notating anything? No. Still, the impressions rush through me like...some kind of simile, but I'm not a musician, certainly I'm no composer and my technique is, how the French say, marred laugh I'm a chronic impressionist and maybe I always was; my compositions must have been slated for some reason. Um...ideas, hmm, maybe (thank you though, you really are sweet you know ^>^ ), force and passion I have but...um...something enduring? I'd love few things more...really few, actually; to be able to touch someone after I've passed and maybe, just maybe, heal them if they're hurting...to add some kind of true transcendental beauty to the universe rather than just sponging it all up? Nothing could be better, really...um...I'm just not good enough. But isn't that what we all want? I don't know...I don't wish to speak for anyone but...is it not? Isn't that why we try? And why we can't not? (Woodog, I think that inadvertently answers all your questions from my perspective smile I'll be sure to read the manifesto, don't you fret; thanks for the suggestion!) To try and reach that elusive pool that holds even just a glimmer of emotion, whichever one it may be, and distil it into music so that anyone can hear it...so difficult to reach though, so slippery and far away; the trek shrouded in a foggy haze-like smokey mire...some people manage to stride through confidently though whilst so many just stumble around in circles... frown Um...anyway, short answer; I really don't think so...I hope I can and so...well, I ask for help along the way, just to make sure I'm facing the right direction, even if I'll never make it. As I mentioned, your words meant a lot. Um...Tim! laugh That's an exceptional observation! Just...um...staggered...frankly laugh I...well, I was born in Germany, lived there briefly before moving to Scotland, then England...um...I have no Russian relatives or anything of the sort...but I just feel *so* Slavic...I always have, ever since I first learnt about Russia when I was, what, seven or eight years old? I don't know...when *do* people learn about other countries generally? Just...without going into my whole belief system, which is probably the most simply complex thing I've ever developed, it can make sense to me. Um...I feel it's just where I'm from, you know? Maybe you don't...knowing without reason to know, just...a feeling laugh Also, the Cyrillic Dreams are Bulgarian; I was having particularly vivid dreams that presented themselves as a tapestry of Bulgarian words (Bulgarian being the nationality of my best friend's only real romantic love)...um...I just...I've read so many documents on Russian lifestyles, etiquette of past and present, history and so forth...um...it's just slightly different from a fascination and I can't *explain* how laugh Amazing perception though....I'll keep my eye on that laugh Um...yes, we really are different in our approach; I can perhaps recognise how working on the same thing and improving it could be incredibly rewarding...but yeesh! I can't manage it; more power to you! I keep Youtube as a sort of public diary; I can access it from anywhere in the world (as can my best friend and anyone with a weak grasp on what they *should* be listening to laugh ) and...sort of feel how I did at that time, by listening. It also helps to see some kind of progression; it's nice to look back a year or so and see how I did things differently, hopefully worse, usually I pessimistically focus on how much better I *was* (not that my uneducated mind could really tell laugh )...um...I think it's the kind of thing real musicians (who improvise, of course) should do...it'd be interesting to hear...maybe I'm wrong laugh As it turns out, I *was* so inclined and have been listening whilst typing this tediously long response; so a fair listen laugh Specifically, her Vignettes..."album"? She's quite alright; I'm sure I wouldn't agree with her being labelled a jazz musician either; very good at playing the same pitch I note (or is that; the same note, I pitch? laugh )...gosh, this reply really got out of hand I feel, um...thank you, for the interest and...well, for the important correction, Polyphonist laugh I mean, without that...well, it'd just be a shambles...ta, all!
<3
Xxxx

Try paragraphs next time. wink laugh grin


Yes - in addition to paragraphs, please try canning the "stream of consciousness" writing style - along with all the "ums" - and perhaps more folks will actually read your posts. Quite frankly, I simply can't get past the first few sentences. Sorry. crazy


It's a little like listening to an overexcited ten-year-old who runs their mouth faster than they can formulate their thoughts, so that what you hear is a similar jumble of incoherence.
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

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#2126165 - 07/31/13 11:29 PM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: carey]
Cinnamonbear Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 3936
Loc: Rockford, IL
Originally Posted By: carey
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: FSO
Um...okay, beet: I can't, no. I mean, it used to be what I tried to do but...I took a knock. I mean, my whole musical life (a mere 8 years, beginning by playing a piano in the school hall, being thrown off whenever caught, and not being allowed by my father to learn music as it is "impractical"; um, it wasn't until maybe half a year after playing that I learnt of classical music [having, until that point, found music rather empty and not paying it any attention], by which point I'd already...well, as "they" put it, poisoned myself with dissonance, which obviously required firm stamping out) people have criticised my compositions; after a particularly vicious verbal barrage I kind of...well...snapped a bit (not in a violent way though laugh ). I've not "composed" since; general ideas and putting them together in my head before sitting down, yes, but, um, notating anything? No. Still, the impressions rush through me like...some kind of simile, but I'm not a musician, certainly I'm no composer and my technique is, how the French say, marred laugh I'm a chronic impressionist and maybe I always was; my compositions must have been slated for some reason. Um...ideas, hmm, maybe (thank you though, you really are sweet you know ^>^ ), force and passion I have but...um...something enduring? I'd love few things more...really few, actually; to be able to touch someone after I've passed and maybe, just maybe, heal them if they're hurting...to add some kind of true transcendental beauty to the universe rather than just sponging it all up? Nothing could be better, really...um...I'm just not good enough. But isn't that what we all want? I don't know...I don't wish to speak for anyone but...is it not? Isn't that why we try? And why we can't not? (Woodog, I think that inadvertently answers all your questions from my perspective smile I'll be sure to read the manifesto, don't you fret; thanks for the suggestion!) To try and reach that elusive pool that holds even just a glimmer of emotion, whichever one it may be, and distil it into music so that anyone can hear it...so difficult to reach though, so slippery and far away; the trek shrouded in a foggy haze-like smokey mire...some people manage to stride through confidently though whilst so many just stumble around in circles... frown Um...anyway, short answer; I really don't think so...I hope I can and so...well, I ask for help along the way, just to make sure I'm facing the right direction, even if I'll never make it. As I mentioned, your words meant a lot. Um...Tim! laugh That's an exceptional observation! Just...um...staggered...frankly laugh I...well, I was born in Germany, lived there briefly before moving to Scotland, then England...um...I have no Russian relatives or anything of the sort...but I just feel *so* Slavic...I always have, ever since I first learnt about Russia when I was, what, seven or eight years old? I don't know...when *do* people learn about other countries generally? Just...without going into my whole belief system, which is probably the most simply complex thing I've ever developed, it can make sense to me. Um...I feel it's just where I'm from, you know? Maybe you don't...knowing without reason to know, just...a feeling laugh Also, the Cyrillic Dreams are Bulgarian; I was having particularly vivid dreams that presented themselves as a tapestry of Bulgarian words (Bulgarian being the nationality of my best friend's only real romantic love)...um...I just...I've read so many documents on Russian lifestyles, etiquette of past and present, history and so forth...um...it's just slightly different from a fascination and I can't *explain* how laugh Amazing perception though....I'll keep my eye on that laugh Um...yes, we really are different in our approach; I can perhaps recognise how working on the same thing and improving it could be incredibly rewarding...but yeesh! I can't manage it; more power to you! I keep Youtube as a sort of public diary; I can access it from anywhere in the world (as can my best friend and anyone with a weak grasp on what they *should* be listening to laugh ) and...sort of feel how I did at that time, by listening. It also helps to see some kind of progression; it's nice to look back a year or so and see how I did things differently, hopefully worse, usually I pessimistically focus on how much better I *was* (not that my uneducated mind could really tell laugh )...um...I think it's the kind of thing real musicians (who improvise, of course) should do...it'd be interesting to hear...maybe I'm wrong laugh As it turns out, I *was* so inclined and have been listening whilst typing this tediously long response; so a fair listen laugh Specifically, her Vignettes..."album"? She's quite alright; I'm sure I wouldn't agree with her being labelled a jazz musician either; very good at playing the same pitch I note (or is that; the same note, I pitch? laugh )...gosh, this reply really got out of hand I feel, um...thank you, for the interest and...well, for the important correction, Polyphonist laugh I mean, without that...well, it'd just be a shambles...ta, all!
<3
Xxxx

Try paragraphs next time. wink laugh grin


Yes - in addition to paragraphs, please try canning the "stream of consciousness" writing style - along with all the "ums" - and perhaps more folks will actually read your posts. Quite frankly, I simply can't get past the first few sentences. Sorry. crazy


I am coming to FSO's defense, not that she needs it; rather, to give an alternate voice of explication to her consistent explanations regarding her locution (the word "locution" is bold because it's a vocabulary word, people. Look it up if you need to... (Haven't you gotten it by now, readers???)), and, as such, by way of appreciation: mine clearly stated, and I hope that others can learn to hear her voice, which, much like modern music for some, might be an acquired taste.

Here is a very personal statement: I am slow. Seriously--I really am slow. I think slowly. I work slowly. And, I read slowly--really, really slowly. Reading slowly, for an English Lit. major (as I was at one point in my life (M.A., eventually, thankyouverymuch)), is a bit of a detriment (try taking a Dickens seminar, and see if you can tuck under your belt five novels in one semester! (I missed one: Old Curiosity Shop, indeed, and I still have bad dreams about taking the final, from time to time.)). But as I have aged, I have also learned to accept myself, AND, in accepting my, um, some would say, disability of being a slow reader--I have come to a conclusion. That is, authors choose words carefully. Not only that, but they present them carefully, too.

Compare and contrast: both my wife and my son read in chunks. They take in whole sentences, paragraphs, and, it seems, pages at a time. They are very smart and very quick. But guess what? They don't read every word. Nor, do they appreciate every nuance.

What I discovered in reflecting on my "disability" was this: I became an appreciator of form and style. Being slow, in order to maintain some semblance of actual comprehension, I needed to read EVERY WORD of every work that I read. At some point in accepting this realization, I had the epiphany that authors do not write in chunks. They may THINK in chunks, but they write in words. And they place these words, word by word, in a certain order, and for a certain reason. They even rework the words, to get the words in the exactly right place exactly. On the surface, this is called, "voice." But, it has a deeper meaning, as well... ...A much, much deeper meaning, if you care to take time to study it.

Can you appreciate literature? Who has read James Joyce? Who has read Thomas Pynchon? Who has read Tom Wolfe? These people had a lot to say, and they said it in unconventional ways. But they said it. And people read it. And people who took the time to get it, got it.

FSO is like that, to me. She has a style. It is worthy of appreciation, as much as any person who stands in front of you is worth acknowledging, hearing, understanding and appreciating. Instead of asking FSO to change, I would suggest that readers SLOW DOWN and read her words, which are full of life and meaning. FSO is talking when she writes. (I have often wondered if she is using voice recognition software to make her posts. Nonetheless,--) Hear the pitch. Hear the cadences. Imagine the dialect.

Or, not. If FSO is not your cup of tea, leave her alone. But, please don't ask her to change.

FSO has a lot to say--in words AND music! In my opinion, she adds much to the discourse, here. I choose to read and appreciate what she says.

But I am slow.

(I also take time to smell roses. And honeysuckle. And, believe it or not, dandelions, which are lovely, soft, and sweet. "Little mums," I've heard them called, with tremendous health-giving properties, which, when you look at them that way...)

XXXOOO,
--Andy
_________________________
I may not be fast,
but at least I'm slow.

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#2126174 - 08/01/13 12:11 AM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: FSO]
D. S. F. Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/10/10
Posts: 144
FWIW, I too am slow in many ways including reading, and before any of the criticism came up I had read every word of FSO's post, with no trouble, just as I have read every word of Andy's reply. Truth be told, I was curious to see what the dialog would be interacting with the thoughts, and shocked to instead see the criticism.
_________________________
Music does not have to be understood;
It has to be listened to.
- Hermann Scherchen.

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#2126222 - 08/01/13 03:43 AM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: FSO]
scepticalforumguy Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/18/08
Posts: 1475
Loc: Lower Mainland, BC
I think Fluttershy (FSO) is doing amazing things with these improvs. The trouble is only that one needs to commit a significant amount of time to get through them.
I'm also an improvisor, currently doing more jazz than other genres, but really find that what she is doing is musically rewarding.

FSO, Keep it up, and I'm sure you'll be touching many more lives in positive ways with these contributions.

I'm glad I came back to this forum--it was a bit dead for years and now there seem to be some good things going on again.

Peace
_________________________
Recordings of my recent solo piano and piano/keyboard trio jazz standards.



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#2126235 - 08/01/13 04:38 AM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: FSO]
FSO Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/03/12
Posts: 854
Loc: UK, Brighton
Pfft laugh It doesn't matter...it does confuse me, admittedly, but it doesn't upset me too much when people don't read my jumble of incoherence smile I'm sure Bernhard felt similarly to those that you mentioned, Cinnybear, when facing critique; I mean, um, tea isn't for everyone. Some people prefer trowels of tea, I'm sure...um...thank you, for the ripost; likely, left to my own devices, I would have mumbled some form of apology, felt bad for a few moments and moved on with my life (reflecting, perhaps for the time whose count matters not, briefly, perchance, on how much of life truly is just another repetition of the same tired principles, before becoming distracted by something shiny)...but thank you, it's nice ^>^ Slowness is a virtue and, frankly, I'm pleased that you've come to terms with possessing it! laugh I mean, um, appreciating life is *the point* of life...possibly smile Either way, you don't listen to Beethoven sped up, so why hope for your life to be so? Anywho, negative criticism (for though my words may be incomprehensible for some, I at least know what the words I use mean...grumble grumble... laugh I mean...I *do* sort of take a perverse pleasure in reading what people are *actually* writing; with regard to comprehensibility, this dichotomy that appears to occasionally form between style and substance seems, to me, the most absurd) helps us grow, no? So...in a way, casting someone's style into the fires of condemnation may more be a merely frustrated form of trying to be nice? Um...I will say, my thoughts are quite formulated prior to attempting to pen (key?) them; other thoughts simply manage to spring up whilst the arduous task of typing (it was type, not key laugh ) keeps me occupied...and if I were to only type what first appeared firm...well, I couldn't justifiably type anything; such self-censorship is the only logical course to take...unless you are more of a gardener than architect; some will type things...I mean, they will have objective...objects that they try to put forth for everyone to see and, hopefully, appreciate...but, um, some of us will express which, woefully, does not always come in the easiest to swallow morsels. It's messy, indirect, perhaps disjointed, but does not necessarily lack formulation or in any way infer a total disregard for relevance (for instance, I just realised I could wear my keyring and not need to take a bag to store my keys within later...um...these thoughts are irrelevant and, save for this exception which proves the rule {a fairly odd phrase, I find, that indicates it's own erroneous nature [this little diversion in and of itself being of point which, unfortunately hasn't been explained yet (but shall laugh )] regardless of how it's read}); instead, it tries to convey something more...I mean, um, the tone with which you say something matters; it changes the *meaning* of what you say...so, naturally, sometimes you must destabilise what you seem to be saying to convey further intent; erroneous as it may seem (see? I even made it easy by repeating a word {which I loathe, really}), sometimes one must not say what they mean to convey what they mean. Um....diversion aside laugh for those who lack physical impairment (such as currawong dearest) my style shouldn't be illegible. I'm sorry that it is, but...maybe, dare I suggest, that rather than my writing it incorrectly...you're not...reading it right?? laugh Um...I won't go on the stand and insist that, of course, but, um, if an English Literature degree holder (masterfully done, of course) finds it appreciable...well...then I can't feel *too* bad(ly...adverbs people...really laugh ) about myself...in this regard laugh I'm not so sure how much I agree with my having a lot to say about music; pretty much *everyone* here is far more esteemed than me, but (which means and, by the way, merely with a negative implication; implications being related to the conveyance of meaning which is not technically stipulated {repetitious is life laugh } ) I certainly appreciate what you've done for me. Thank you. Deffles dearest; thank you too (seems weak compared with that internet version of a treatise but, frankly, I've got to get going {keyring laugh } smile ). Sorry for any offence my condescension may have caused, it certainly wasn't intended; bear in mind that it is, if read as such, only condescension...um....I'd never patronise anyone! laugh
FSO
Xxx
_________________________
Sometimes, we all just need to be shown a little kindness <3

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#2126507 - 08/01/13 04:16 PM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: Cinnamonbear]
carey Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6377
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted By: Cinnamonbear
FSO is like that, to me. She has a style. It is worthy of appreciation, as much as any person who stands in front of you is worth acknowledging, hearing, understanding and appreciating. Instead of asking FSO to change, I would suggest that readers SLOW DOWN and read her words, which are full of life and meaning. FSO is talking when she writes. (I have often wondered if she is using voice recognition software to make her posts. Nonetheless,--) Hear the pitch. Hear the cadences. Imagine the dialect.

Or, not. If FSO is not your cup of tea, leave her alone. But, please don't ask her to change.


Mea culpa. I sincerely apologize to FSO. While her writing style is not my cup of tea, it is MY problem - not her's.

Cheers !!
_________________________
YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo

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#2126534 - 08/01/13 05:04 PM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: FSO]
pianoloverus Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19480
Loc: New York City
I doubt whether one in ten who start FSO's posts finish reading them. I think it's really a question of courtesy and one should not to expect anyone to try and read posts that look like that.

I cannot recall a single poster at PW whose posts are so difficult, close to impossible IMO, to read. One should not have to read a post as if one is trying to translate from a foreign language one is unfamiliar with. Typically FSO gets far more comments on the difficulty of reading her posts than on the content of the posts.

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#2126560 - 08/01/13 06:10 PM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: FSO]
Vid Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/01
Posts: 854
Loc: Vancouver, B.C.
I think its a question of courtesy to your intended readers. If you really expect or want people to read your thoughts you should take the time and effort to make it somewhat, uhm, wink palatable for human consumption.
_________________________
Kawai VPC1, Pianoteq, Galaxy Vintage D

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#2126629 - 08/01/13 09:02 PM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: FSO]
woodog Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/21/12
Posts: 415
Loc: Bowling Green, KY
I love FSO's writing. ...then again, I've always been one out of ten, or five out of six if Kinsey was correct... Or something...

And yes, my questions were answered.

Best!

Forrest
_________________________
-------------------
current studies:
Debussy: Suite Bergamasque
Bach 848, 866
Schumann Op. 15

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#2126671 - 08/01/13 10:48 PM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: FSO]
Cinnamonbear Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 3936
Loc: Rockford, IL
Originally Posted By: FSO
Pfft laugh It doesn't matter...it does confuse me, admittedly, but it doesn't upset me too much when people don't read my jumble of incoherence smile I'm sure Bernhard felt similarly to those that you mentioned, Cinnybear, when facing critique; I mean, um, tea isn't for everyone. Some people prefer trowels of tea, I'm sure...um...thank you, for the ripost; likely, left to my own devices, I would have mumbled some form of apology, felt bad for a few moments and moved on with my life (reflecting, perhaps for the time whose count matters not, briefly, perchance, on how much of life truly is just another repetition of the same tired principles, before becoming distracted by something shiny)...but thank you, it's nice ^>^ Slowness is a virtue and, frankly, I'm pleased that you've come to terms with possessing it! laugh I mean, um, appreciating life is *the point* of life...possibly smile Either way, you don't listen to Beethoven sped up, so why hope for your life to be so? Anywho, negative criticism (for though my words may be incomprehensible for some, I at least know what the words I use mean...grumble grumble... laugh I mean...I *do* sort of take a perverse pleasure in reading what people are *actually* writing; with regard to comprehensibility, this dichotomy that appears to occasionally form between style and substance seems, to me, the most absurd) helps us grow, no? So...in a way, casting someone's style into the fires of condemnation may more be a merely frustrated form of trying to be nice? Um...I will say, my thoughts are quite formulated prior to attempting to pen (key?) them; other thoughts simply manage to spring up whilst the arduous task of typing (it was type, not key laugh ) keeps me occupied...and if I were to only type what first appeared firm...well, I couldn't justifiably type anything; such self-censorship is the only logical course to take...unless you are more of a gardener than architect; some will type things...I mean, they will have objective...objects that they try to put forth for everyone to see and, hopefully, appreciate...but, um, some of us will express which, woefully, does not always come in the easiest to swallow morsels. It's messy, indirect, perhaps disjointed, but does not necessarily lack formulation or in any way infer a total disregard for relevance (for instance, I just realised I could wear my keyring and not need to take a bag to store my keys within later...um...these thoughts are irrelevant and, save for this exception which proves the rule {a fairly odd phrase, I find, that indicates it's own erroneous nature [this little diversion in and of itself being of point which, unfortunately hasn't been explained yet (but shall laugh )] regardless of how it's read}); instead, it tries to convey something more...I mean, um, the tone with which you say something matters; it changes the *meaning* of what you say...so, naturally, sometimes you must destabilise what you seem to be saying to convey further intent; erroneous as it may seem (see? I even made it easy by repeating a word {which I loathe, really}), sometimes one must not say what they mean to convey what they mean. Um....diversion aside laugh for those who lack physical impairment (such as currawong dearest) my style shouldn't be illegible. I'm sorry that it is, but...maybe, dare I suggest, that rather than my writing it incorrectly...you're not...reading it right?? laugh Um...I won't go on the stand and insist that, of course, but, um, if an English Literature degree holder (masterfully done, of course) finds it appreciable...well...then I can't feel *too* bad(ly...adverbs people...really laugh ) about myself...in this regard laugh I'm not so sure how much I agree with my having a lot to say about music; pretty much *everyone* here is far more esteemed than me, but (which means and, by the way, merely with a negative implication; implications being related to the conveyance of meaning which is not technically stipulated {repetitious is life laugh } ) I certainly appreciate what you've done for me. Thank you. Deffles dearest; thank you too (seems weak compared with that internet version of a treatise but, frankly, I've got to get going {keyring laugh } smile ). Sorry for any offence my condescension may have caused, it certainly wasn't intended; bear in mind that it is, if read as such, only condescension...um....I'd never patronise anyone! laugh
FSO
Xxx


This ^^^ is a masterpiece, FSO! laugh I read it this morning and laughed out loud, chuckled, and nodded through the whole thing. Then, tonight, as I was re-reading it (because it is wonderful writing, and incredibly witty and thought-provoking) I laughed out loud, chuckled, and nodded again!--but not in all the same places, because I saw some things that I hadn't seen before in the first reading. Now that, my dear, is the mark of quality and not "jumbled incoherence"! grin

As to the "appreciation of life," I have felt for a long time, now, that the actual "meaning" of life is found in personal relationships, and that the quality of one's life can be measured (or assessed, or otherwise reflected upon) by the quality of one's relationships. Volume doesn't count, but treatment and respect does. Just a random thought, there.

I have to tell you, you really got me with the punch line to "negative criticism," because, upon following your parenthetical line of thought, which evoked many musings of my own regarding much of the discourse here at Piano World, and that of individual contributors, some of whom even have provided illustrations for your very grumblings, and in this very thread no less, I didn't see it coming. And there it was.

Some people prefer Hemingway. Some people prefer Eliot. I enjoy how you express your thoughts, FSO.

I remain,
--Andy
_________________________
I may not be fast,
but at least I'm slow.

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#2126684 - 08/01/13 11:32 PM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: FSO]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7648
Loc: New York City
Quite an interesting discussion of language going on on this thread now. I guess the original topic was out the window a long time ago. laugh
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

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#2126726 - 08/02/13 01:07 AM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: FSO]
FSO Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/03/12
Posts: 854
Loc: UK, Brighton
Language is a comparative art form; we use it as a device, much like we may use a piano or paint. Some people hate Schoenberg and Picasso and it's nobody's fault...it's not up to Schoenberg to change his output and it's not up to the listeners to change...their perspective on their input? I mean, um, to do so is almost to defile the purpose of the language itself; very similar to how words between nations can sometimes become misconstrued due to an unknown affect, so too is it throughout all forms of communication. Um...is it a matter of courtesy? I don't *expect* anyone to read my posts; I've not made a song and dance when someone brings up a point that, calmly I note, I've already stated, with at least as much detail, to which others may respond. I mean, um, I get it laugh I litter the internet and the sight of all those disused, incomprehensible thoughts turns many away in disgust; but it is to those that find the beauty in a bin liner wrapped around a tree that I write. If pseudo-populism is deemed courtesy then I feel sorry for the scant regard society has left for understanding it's own foundations. Um...yes, my writing style is a little opaque to some, perhaps most, but as *so many* of the threads here have stipulated (or at least posited); popular opinion is not necessarily the most valued base of critique. So, finally, we wind back to misinterpretation, the comparability of language and I'll use Schoenberg to emphasise the point; to some it works, to others it does not. It's only worth trying to convert people to Schoenberg if they *can* be; some people simply will never accept his music...and that's fine. It's each person's own universe within which they live...um...their own rules and guidelines as to what things are, how they are, the quality of them and it is *through* language that we try to share our universes...um...I'm sure that all universes are compatible and, really, if we could communicate what we *mean* as opposed to what we *say* there could be no disagreement, of any form, over any situation...um...Andy, I'd say that the greatest joy in life is being able to share your world with another (or more than one if you're lucky) to such a degree that you can no longer truly distinguish yours from theirs...I think that would qualify as a relationship not lacking in quality. Meaning and joy, I fear, are incongruent but...perhaps it is *joy* that meaning utilises in an attempt to show us our purpose..I don't know...(well, I have an idea, but now's not the time laugh )...um...it seems silly to me that it is the portal through which these worlds are shared, our language, our methods of conveyance, that are the true problem; that we as individuals could all perfectly synchronise with a spectral myriad of interpolating ideas, more than could ever be known by one alone...that's what society *is*...but, um, language (be it verbal or musical, physical or conceptual) presents us our only barrier...and at the same time our truest form of creativity. It is in attempting to convey ourselves that the truest challenge lies and...well, obviously, that's sure to bring about spectacular effects; be they arguments, wars, insanity...beauty, humour, curiosity...um...no, I don't *expect* anyone to read what I write, but it does me no disservice if I manage to convey myself to only 1% of those I otherwise would (it's the quality, not the quantity wink )..I agree it *would* be discourteous if I wrote in a "difficult" style (I'll trust you've never read Heidegger laugh ) and expected, required or otherwise forced others to read it...but I don't. Indeed, if more people enjoyed, or loved, or found merit in my writing I might become too scared to continue; um...quit while you're ahead and all that palaver. So thank you, dears; you're all managing, in your own ways, to sustain my deficiencies and inadequacies whether you like them or hate them...I just find it a shame that I seem to get to know more about all of you than you I; the sketchy figure from the bushes with the binoculars. Still, um, that figure has its place and I'll take mine ^>^
Xxx
_________________________
Sometimes, we all just need to be shown a little kindness <3

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#2126752 - 08/02/13 02:18 AM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: FSO]
D. S. F. Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/10/10
Posts: 144
All I can say is the person not reading, for whatever reason they are not reading, is missing out on someone utterly unique and interesting - yes, I qualified the word unique which must have no qualification. And look now, a discussion on language may break into a discussion on philosophy! (No expert on philosophy am I.) No matter how skilled our expression, whether in words or musics, there is a level of faith between ourselves which moves our understanding of each other. Andy's mention of relationships is apt, and success here involves not looking inside, but outside ourselves...not merely looking out for our own personal interests, but also for the interests of others...beyond this even, the true, the absolute that is outside linking us all together.

(This may not have as much to do with the evolving conversation, and yet it was inspired by it. I hope I can be granted this license.)
_________________________
Music does not have to be understood;
It has to be listened to.
- Hermann Scherchen.

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#2126761 - 08/02/13 02:39 AM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: FSO]
currawong Offline
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Registered: 05/15/07
Posts: 5947
Loc: Down Under
Just to be perfectly clear - I have no problems at all with the content of F.S.O.'s posts, or the way she expresses herself. It's the format, which my eyes cannot handle. It's not a language issue for me, it's an eyesight issue. Just a few hits of the return key would do it, but I can see that's not going to happen. So I'm not going to try any more. My loss, yes, I know, but like F.S.O. apparently, I can't help it.
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Du holde Kunst...

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#2126827 - 08/02/13 07:42 AM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: FSO]
FSO Offline
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Loc: UK, Brighton
It's a shame to lose you currawong....though to be honest, I'd have thought you'd have stopped a while ago; thank you for your hard efforts, I appreciate the fault, essentially, lies with me and there it will lay smile Deffles dear, I'm not sure how to license that which I don't own; this conversation is not under copyright, I mean, um, as far as I know...and it's everyone's; if I wanted to get in a huff about deviation from topic I'd have to cast *myself* out most of all...so...there's your licence laugh I'd be a fool not to agree at least half-heartedly with your premise but, I must admit, something in it sits a little uneasily atop the thoughts of how true it is; um...I feel it's in the notions of how one might understand something, were it not already aware of how it relates to the self. I mean, how *can* one understand another person without, at the very least, being able to determine the differences between themselves and their counterpart? It...um...the idea that we are these egocentrical beings, who can't do any a-egoic act or relate to anything other than themselves, sits equally uneasy with ME...but perhaps not from an instinct of its flawedness but rather its truth...um...I *believe* that it's not the case, but can't recognise how it could not be; my belief trumps my logic, fortunately, but this only raises a further, more general worry; is belief merely a diversion from the logical; to believe is surely to "know" something with little to no reason for said belief...um...could it just as easily be replaced with the word "reckon" and, if not, why not? I already know my answers but...I'd be interested to know other people's thoughts. Um...just as a side note, as Deffles brought the magic word into it all, I was a rather promising student of philosophy at university; I adore, beyond most else, how particularly fine answers need to be to assert the essence of the matter and how, at the end of the day, it's all a constructed nonsense laugh Reality will still remain reality (it won't really) regardless of how we think of it...um...it's just kind of nice finding out *which* reality you live in; proper scientists argue it's all the same one, dealing with the things of "reality" whilst their distant cousins deal with the expressions of reality...um...it doesn't appeal to everyone and it's certainly far from useful but...to truly understand *anything* I believe (ME, *I* believe laugh ) you need to either have a moment of genuine, unthinking absolution or a thorough understanding of maths, philosophy, some psychology and a heck of a lot of time on your hands laugh Um...see Deffles; it's fine to divert to or from wherever you want...the conversation is linked and, as such, one could argue that *this* has bearing on the original post, be it in an incredibly abstracted fashion.
Xxx
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Sometimes, we all just need to be shown a little kindness <3

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#2126857 - 08/02/13 09:52 AM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: currawong]
pianoloverus Online   content
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Originally Posted By: currawong
Just to be perfectly clear - I have no problems at all with the content of F.S.O.'s posts, or the way she expresses herself. It's the format, which my eyes cannot handle. It's not a language issue for me, it's an eyesight issue. Just a few hits of the return key would do it, but I can see that's not going to happen.
Which IMO indicates disrespect and possibly arrogance towards anyone who might start reading her posts. Similarly, if someone cannot compose posts without the endless ums and smileys, anyone can go back and delete them after writing the post. What can be the possible excuse for not doing that?

I'd say less than 1 in 10 read more than the first sentence or two of these posts. So FSO has to decide whether she wants her posts ignored by the huge majority or whether she is willing to back and edit her posts.


Edited by pianoloverus (08/02/13 09:58 AM)

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#2126862 - 08/02/13 10:14 AM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: pianoloverus]
Nikolas Offline
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Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 5316
Loc: Europe
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Originally Posted By: currawong
Just to be perfectly clear - I have no problems at all with the content of F.S.O.'s posts, or the way she expresses herself. It's the format, which my eyes cannot handle. It's not a language issue for me, it's an eyesight issue. Just a few hits of the return key would do it, but I can see that's not going to happen.
Which IMO indicates disrespect and possibly arrogance towards anyone who might start reading her posts. Similarly, if someone cannot compose posts without the endless ums and smileys, anyone can go back and delete them after writing the post. What can be the possible excuse for not doing that?

I'd say less than 1 in 10 read more than the first sentence or two of these posts. So FSO has to decide whether she wants her posts ignored by the huge majority or whether she is willing to back and edit her posts.
Well... given the amount of tpyos in my posts I'd say that sometimes people simply can't help it...

I'm Greek, but I've lived in London for 4 years, thus I consider my English to be fine. Yet I fill my posts with either spelling errors, or various tpyos out of haste. And while I know I do it, I don't sit back to edit away those errors. I simply post it! (not to mention that I'm an idiot enough to not remember the difference between below and bellow grin).

Why do you assume that it's FSO's choice? Why do we have to be normal in the way that you, or the majority of people like to?

I can see how a large block of text, with smileys and ums, might turn you, or others away, but so be it... :-/
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#2126884 - 08/02/13 11:09 AM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: FSO]
woodog Offline
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Registered: 03/21/12
Posts: 415
Loc: Bowling Green, KY
wow, I just realized so many composers are disrespectful of me.

You would think they would keep my (very limited) ability in mind.

Forrest
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current studies:
Debussy: Suite Bergamasque
Bach 848, 866
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#2126900 - 08/02/13 11:42 AM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: Nikolas]
pianoloverus Online   content
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Originally Posted By: Nikolas
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Originally Posted By: currawong
Just to be perfectly clear - I have no problems at all with the content of F.S.O.'s posts, or the way she expresses herself. It's the format, which my eyes cannot handle. It's not a language issue for me, it's an eyesight issue. Just a few hits of the return key would do it, but I can see that's not going to happen.
Which IMO indicates disrespect and possibly arrogance towards anyone who might start reading her posts. Similarly, if someone cannot compose posts without the endless ums and smileys, anyone can go back and delete them after writing the post. What can be the possible excuse for not doing that?

I'd say less than 1 in 10 read more than the first sentence or two of these posts. So FSO has to decide whether she wants her posts ignored by the huge majority or whether she is willing to back and edit her posts.
Well... given the amount of tpyos in my posts I'd say that sometimes people simply can't help it...

I'm Greek, but I've lived in London for 4 years, thus I consider my English to be fine. Yet I fill my posts with either spelling errors, or various tpyos out of haste. And while I know I do it, I don't sit back to edit away those errors. I simply post it! (not to mention that I'm an idiot enough to not remember the difference between below and bellow grin).

Why do you assume that it's FSO's choice? Why do we have to be normal in the way that you, or the majority of people like to?

I can see how a large block of text, with smileys and ums, might turn you, or others away, but so be it... :-/
I never had the slightest difficulty reading any of your posts and can't even remember noticing a misspelling. FSO's posts are in a category that none of PW's 50,000 members, including those with minimal knowledge of English, come close to in terms of their difficulty to read.

I understand that it may not be possible for her to compose her posts without all the things that make them virtually unreadable, but I cannot imagine that she couldn't go back and press enter a few times to create paragraphs and press delete enough times to remove ums and smileys. And here I think it's actually discourteous not to do so.

No one "has to be normal in the way the majority of people like", but even though I don't ever get through more than a few sentences I actually find the posts offensive. If someone at a meeting continually got up and spoke unintelligibly, I don't think those at the meeting would just sit there and do nothing after this happened a few times.

I do understand that the likelihood of anything changing here is very small, so this is my last post about this...at least for a month.


Edited by pianoloverus (08/02/13 11:44 AM)

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#2126917 - 08/02/13 12:20 PM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: currawong]
Mark_C Online   content
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Registered: 11/11/09
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Originally Posted By: currawong
Just to be perfectly clear - I have no problems at all with the content of F.S.O.'s posts, or the way she expresses herself. It's the format, which my eyes cannot handle. It's not a language issue for me, it's an eyesight issue. Just a few hits of the return key would do it....

FWIW, me too. (Although as per what Plover said, I could also do without the "ums.") grin

And from the other posts here, especially from CinnamonBear, I can see that I might be missing out on some pretty neat things.

I would add (and I wonder if this is true for Curra too) that the "eyesight" thing actually goes a little beyond the purely visual. The lack of more visual organization of the posts is fairly brain-scrambling; the unorganized layout is unsettling to the mind as well as to the eye. It's not that I'm incapable of dealing with unorganized or chaotic stuff, but it feels like work (for me, literally) grin .....and when I'm on here, I don't want to feel like I'm at work.

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#2126952 - 08/02/13 01:29 PM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: FSO]
carey Offline
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Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6377
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted By: FSO
Um...just as a side note, as Deffles brought the magic word into it all, I was a rather promising student of philosophy at university; I adore, beyond most else, how particularly fine answers need to be to assert the essence of the matter and how, at the end of the day, it's all a constructed nonsense laugh


Thank you for this. It's all beginning to make sense. wink
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#2126964 - 08/02/13 01:45 PM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: FSO]
carey Offline
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Registered: 05/13/05
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Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
When I choose to read a PW thread, it's usually because I'm interested in the topic. If a complex, rambling post isn't directly related to the thread topic - and requires a great deal of concentration and patience to wade through - then I tend to lose interest and move on to something else. If, by doing so, I miss out on discovering rich hidden meanings and glimpses into the author's soul - so be it.

And by the way, I enjoyed listening to portions of the improvisation. To answer FSO's original question.."Is there any point continuing what I do?" (i.e., the improvisation), I sincerely say......UM... Yes - by all means !! grin
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#2126970 - 08/02/13 02:00 PM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: FSO]
FSO Offline
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Registered: 04/03/12
Posts: 854
Loc: UK, Brighton
skepticalforumguy; I'm sorry, I entirely missed your post! Thank you for the lovely words! I'm afraid that I can't comment on the quality of your improvisations as...well, I know *nothing* of jazz laugh It sounds like jazz though...so...I assume it's good? smile Um...woodog: whilst everyone's talents have a limit, I think to state yours as being very much so is a tad dramatic; who's disrespecting you? I mean, there's nothing I can do about it but assure you that it can't be true; you're too lovely! Pianoloverus....this shall be my only response on the matter; I shan't be driven to emotional ruin like last time. If you don't read it then I quite understand, but I sort of hope you do. I am civil. I am respectful of other people's conditions or desires, impairments and goals. I apologise *all* the time (for instance, the very first post in this thread anticipates this exact event)...um...I'm humble, calm and, generally, will respond to every person who contacts me directly with a personal response. If I feel what I say, if worded poorly, will hurt somebody's feelings I take extra care when choosing each thought I try to put across. Still, you call me arrogant, disrespectful, discourteous...I wouldn't dare say such things about *anyone* let alone someone I don't know! Mark C, for instance, has shown a degree of civility; he's stated, essentially, that he doesn't read my posts...um...that's fine with me; he doesn't read them because they are, basically, not worth the effort. That's plenty fair enough. What you've done is gone out of your way to try and offend me; I like to think that it's just a desperate push to try and make me see things as you see them, to type as you would type and be as you would be. As I've said before, I wish I could be so. Um...you've never believed that and you never will...the problem I have is that I'm starting to suspect this isn't your true motivation; woodog's suggestion that I read the validation manifesto (flawed as it is laugh ) kind of fits the bill (in a ham fisted fashion). Even so, your comparison is bunk and you know it; this is, almost literally, a noticeboard. Beyond that, it's a noticeboard that every person can customise; they can actually choose who can post on their own noticeboard...not that I endorse the ignore button, but if I truly offend you so greatly it *is* there (not that I know where it is; um...I'll never ignore anyone, no matter how virulently hostile or abusive they may be)...um...even without "ignoring" me, people can still ignore me by scrolling down. Furthermore, I see this "few sentences" all the time...how long are paragraphs meant to be? One sentence? Or is it an ill placed "um" that sets your teeth on edge? Frankly, no offence, but if you can't handle a word that you can't quite understand or the notion of reading more than a few sentences without a break "offends" you then I can't imagine a list of good books that you've read...you know, um, the ones without pictures. There, that was me being arrogant, assuming, vindictive and churlish without purpose (though no doubt you've stopped reading); it's pointless, hurtful and sometimes cruel. It's similar to the vast majority of the posts you direct towards me. currawong, Mark C, carey and plenty others have *nicely* indicated my deficiencies. carey even apologised (unnecessarily so, but it was nice); evidently concerned for my feelings as any fully functioning adult would be. Um...you, on the other hand, don't give a flying fridge magnet unless it's forced upon you; I live with a psychopath (not the film type, a real one). You two have some remarkably similar qualities. If you *are* a psychopath that's fine; I'll stop expecting you to care about things that don't directly affect you...um...similarly, if you have Aspergers or schizophrenia I can sympathise or empathise accordingly. What I'm saying is I'll give you an F-ing break. Please, I've previously practically begged to you before snapping my last tether, I'm not like a lot of you...um...that sounded arrogant laugh but I mean; I'm broken in ways you clearly aren't, in ways you didn't think could break, and for F's sake, that's how it is. I've told you this before; you continued to berate me, I believe, leading to some unfortunate emotional disturbance. That shan't happen again. I hope you're well and happy, this of course applying to everyone smile but you don't half know how to push my buttons sometimes (less...less to everyone smile ) I'm sorry for the boring post...I assure you it'll be the last *super* dull one I do and normal dullness will be resumed...
FSO
Xxx
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#2126975 - 08/02/13 02:23 PM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: FSO]
carey Offline
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Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6377
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted By: FSO
I'm sorry for the boring post...I assure you it'll be the last *super* dull one I do and normal dullness will be resumed...


Actually I thought the post was really good - one of your best - and easy to read !!!!!! thumb
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#2126987 - 08/02/13 02:45 PM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: carey]
FSO Offline
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Registered: 04/03/12
Posts: 854
Loc: UK, Brighton
Originally Posted By: carey

Actually I thought the post was really good - one of your best - and easy to read !!!!!! thumb

Oh, behave smile Thank you for your answer, for your explanation and, above all, your patience (although maybe, really, your answer smile ). I shouldn't have said what I did just now...um...I...was a tad...not enraged, exactly, but certainly rather hacked off. It was impolite and "discourteous" laugh Um...if that's what it takes to be easy to read...well...that's not great news for someone wink
Xxx
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Sometimes, we all just need to be shown a little kindness <3

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#2126990 - 08/02/13 02:58 PM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: FSO]
carey Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6377
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted By: FSO
Originally Posted By: carey

Actually I thought the post was really good - one of your best - and easy to read !!!!!! thumb

Oh, behave smile Thank you for your answer, for your explanation and, above all, your patience (although maybe, really, your answer smile ). I shouldn't have said what I did just now...um...I...was a tad...not enraged, exactly, but certainly rather hacked off. It was impolite and "discourteous" laugh Um...if that's what it takes to be easy to read...well...that's not great news for someone wink
Xxx


Well - the content of the post was one thing ha but the flow of the narrative was much easier to follow - because there was less visual clutter and you clearly had a point to make....great news or not.
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#2126998 - 08/02/13 03:34 PM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: FSO]
FSO Offline
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Registered: 04/03/12
Posts: 854
Loc: UK, Brighton
I must admit, I would consider my prose a lot less cluttered and clearly...point...making, than my music; I'd always been told my narratives in my playing are nigh on *impossible* to follow to the point of incredulity...but...um...maybe there *is* a fundamental difference between these two mediums and how they're interpreted...thank you, I'll be sure to ponder that (as well as upon it laugh ).
Xxx
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Sometimes, we all just need to be shown a little kindness <3

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#2127191 - 08/02/13 10:21 PM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: FSO]
Cinnamonbear Offline
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Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 3936
Loc: Rockford, IL
Originally Posted By: FSO
[...] I'd always been told my narratives in my playing are nigh on *impossible* to follow to the point of incredulity[...]


By how many have you been told, FSO? I might suppose that 100% of people who don't read Heidegger might find that to be so. Or, perhaps 98%. (Oh, wait! Quantity does not matter! Is "one" a quantity?) As someone who has read and appreciated "The Wisdom of Insecurity" (not by Heidegger), what *I* observe is that, somehow, you have a firm ability to stay in the present moment to make musical meaning.

What I find interesting about the improvs that I have heard from you is this: they are very consonant, harmonically, even in their most dissonant moments. It's as if you were almost unwilling to explore tension. Hmmm... crazy (If I am hearing this wrong, or too superficially, perhaps you would link to a sonic narrative of yours which, in your estimation, explores significant tension.)

BTW, I am curious about a few of the pictures you have chosen for your youtube vids. Do you know anything about iridology? Yes or no will suffice.

--Andy
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but at least I'm slow.

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#2127217 - 08/02/13 11:19 PM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: Nikolas]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7648
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Nikolas
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Originally Posted By: currawong
Just to be perfectly clear - I have no problems at all with the content of F.S.O.'s posts, or the way she expresses herself. It's the format, which my eyes cannot handle. It's not a language issue for me, it's an eyesight issue. Just a few hits of the return key would do it, but I can see that's not going to happen.
Which IMO indicates disrespect and possibly arrogance towards anyone who might start reading her posts. Similarly, if someone cannot compose posts without the endless ums and smileys, anyone can go back and delete them after writing the post. What can be the possible excuse for not doing that?

I'd say less than 1 in 10 read more than the first sentence or two of these posts. So FSO has to decide whether she wants her posts ignored by the huge majority or whether she is willing to back and edit her posts.
Well... given the amount of tpyos in my posts I'd say that sometimes people simply can't help it...

I'm Greek, but I've lived in London for 4 years, thus I consider my English to be fine. Yet I fill my posts with either spelling errors, or various tpyos out of haste. And while I know I do it, I don't sit back to edit away those errors. I simply post it! (not to mention that I'm an idiot enough to not remember the difference between below and bellow grin).

Why do you assume that it's FSO's choice? Why do we have to be normal in the way that you, or the majority of people like to?

I can see how a large block of text, with smileys and ums, might turn you, or others away, but so be it... :-/

I have never had problems reading your posts, and your English is very good for someone who's not a native speaker. Meanwhile, FSO knows English perfectly well, and yet her posts are a total turn-off for me. Why? Because she just rambles on, instead of taking the time to go back and use her knowledge of English to make her posts readable.
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Polyphonist

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#2127348 - 08/03/13 07:25 AM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: Polyphonist]
wr Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 7913
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Meanwhile, FSO knows English perfectly well, and yet her posts are a total turn-off for me. Why? Because she just rambles on, instead of taking the time to go back and use her knowledge of English to make her posts readable.


They are readable. Maybe not as straightforward as a Nancy Drew or Hardy Boys mystery, or a Dan Brown book, but nevertheless, they are readable. I know, because I can read them. And after reading one or two, the style becomes pretty easy to negotiate.

Whether one wants to read them, or thinks they are worth the negligible effort it takes to do so, is a completely different question.

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#2127367 - 08/03/13 09:12 AM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: Cinnamonbear]
FSO Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/03/12
Posts: 854
Loc: UK, Brighton
Originally Posted By: Cinnamonbear
...what *I* observe is that, somehow, you have a firm ability to stay in the present moment to make musical meaning.

What I find interesting about the improvs that I have heard from you is this: they are very consonant, harmonically, even in their most dissonant moments. It's as if you were almost unwilling to explore tension. Hmmm... crazy (If I am hearing this wrong, or too superficially, perhaps you would link to a sonic narrative of yours which, in your estimation, explores significant tension.)

BTW, I am curious about a few of the pictures you have chosen for your youtube vids. Do you know anything about iridology? Yes or no will suffice.

--Andy

My best friend has noted very similar things, actually laugh Um...there are plenty of moments in the initially posted improvisation that, I believe, avoid consonance entirely...but it's *really* long, so it's bound to laugh Of course I wouldn't dare suggest that you're hearing it wrong...I mean, um, it'd make more sense to say that I'm not communicating the message effectively (perfectly possible, given that I'm not a hybrid of Gould and Satie)...room for improvement is always a blessing ^>^ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aK-4zhOZ-NE is what I first thought of when reading your bracketed sentence....I feel there is so much tension in the majority of my pieces but, um, maybe *musically* there isn't laugh See...I feel much more tension in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJ85aFfsAgM and less in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyMwNC2_cpM ....maybe there is; I'm too uneducated to know smile The problem with playing as I do is that I struggle to do anything *good*...I think (hope?) it's very organic, natural or otherwise...you know...accurate? Um...I try and put across an impression; the exact details don't really matter to me...and I usually go on too long laugh Iridology? I *love* the idea but I've never formally studied it (unlike...*cough* chiromancy...); the eyes reveal more than any other part of the human body, it would make sense that you could determine *something* about it from their expression and idioms, flecks and flaws...um...the problem with, you know, the "made up paranormal pseudo-scientific waffle" is that it doesn't know when to stop; this doesn't mean some parts of it aren't right. Logically, *everything* in the universe affects everything else in the universe...so...it would make sense that you can determine something from something "unrelated"...um...I don't know...to answer your question, yes smile Thank you...for saying I manage to stay in the present moment...that's exactly the vague, wishy-washy, not quite determinable quality that I hope to achieve ^>^
Xxx
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Sometimes, we all just need to be shown a little kindness <3

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#2127372 - 08/03/13 09:27 AM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: Cinnamonbear]
FSO Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/03/12
Posts: 854
Loc: UK, Brighton
Originally Posted By: Cinnamonbear

By how many have you been told, FSO? I might suppose that 100% of people who don't read Heidegger might find that to be so. Or, perhaps 98%. (Oh, wait! Quantity does not matter! Is "one" a quantity?)
--Andy

When quantity does not matter, surely one is as many as all? Um...it was the head of music at my school who really got to me, but a few other teachers commented (after playing a composition in a school concert) on the few "bum notes" I could get away with...a lot of the students who heard them had a thing or two to say too...I've never studied music but, to me, musical lines appear that just make sense...um...only, other people don't hear them, or think they're just mess...I'd be remiss if I weren't to consider this, at least in part, the source of my musical insecurity regarding the validity of my harmonic language. Where others learnt to get used to atonality, I had to learn to use consonance...um...perhaps I overcompensate as a matter of course, who knows. It doesn't *really* matter...it is how it is; we can all but try do as we will, the consequences and results...well, damn them, they are as a result of our expression; be they rubbish or "good", surely they can't help but be true?
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#2127398 - 08/03/13 10:57 AM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: wr]
Tim Adrianson Online   content
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Registered: 08/07/10
Posts: 1077
wr, I'll join you and CinnamonBear on FSO's defense team. My added contribution is that her style seems to me quintessentially English, albeit in a dated manner, and is for that reason quite charming to me. Frankly, I've always been rather envious of the English ability to convey thoughts in this fashion -- a really quite complicated but lyrical mode of expression that clearly IS done "on the spot" -- i.e., a verbal improvisation. And it is amusing to me that a few are just downright pissed off about this style -- that's SO American in attitude: the insistence that communication MUST be terse and plain-spoken, and that no embellishment whatever is to be trusted, or broached. I count myself among those who would never write the way FSO does, but for me it's because I don't have the same facility with elegant turns of phrase -- not because, to use dated English parlance, EVER SO NAUGHTY to express oneself in this manner.

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#2127489 - 08/03/13 02:16 PM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: FSO]
Old Man Offline
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Registered: 04/04/12
Posts: 778
Loc: Michigan, USA
Everything I've read of FSO's posts tells me she needs no "defense team", so I'll just speak for me.

I can only echo Tim's thought -- "Charming as all get out" is the colloquialism that comes to my mind when reading FSO's posts. Unlike some of her critics, what confounds me is not her "locutions", but her thoughts, her intellect. She simply thinks deeper thoughts than I do. I too am slow (by comparison, Cinnamon Bear is a bullet train), so reading FSO can be challenging. Hers is a "mind ablaze", and that's why I think her stream-of-consciousness style suits her perfectly. And I don't expect, or even want her slowing down for me or anyone else. She could purge every emoticon, indent every paragraph, space every paragraph, and perfectly punctuate every sentence, and I'm afraid I'd still find myself left in the dust more often than not. But that's okay. It never hurts to read that last sentence just one more time. smile

Yet I never fail to read FSO's posts. And when I've had a rotten work day, and my eyes light upon that splay of emoticons, ums, and asterisks, even before I've read a single word, I can't help but break out in a grin -- perspective reclaimed. And that by itself is more than enough for me. So FSO, should you ever have the slightest inclination that you just might possibly perhaps some day wish to relent, and assuage your critics, perish the thought immediately! Or you'll have the image of one very sad old man indelibly etched on your conscience. laugh


Edited by Old Man (08/03/13 02:18 PM)

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#2127611 - 08/03/13 06:55 PM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: Mark_C]
currawong Offline
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Registered: 05/15/07
Posts: 5947
Loc: Down Under
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
I would add (and I wonder if this is true for Curra too) that the "eyesight" thing actually goes a little beyond the purely visual. The lack of more visual organization of the posts is fairly brain-scrambling; the unorganized layout is unsettling to the mind as well as to the eye. It's not that I'm incapable of dealing with unorganized or chaotic stuff, but it feels like work (for me, literally) grin .....and when I'm on here, I don't want to feel like I'm at work.
I thought about this for a while, Mark, and I don't think this is the case for me. I tend to try to write clearly myself (it's not really just an American thing, is it Tim? I'm definitely not American smile ) but I don't mind the chaotic aspects of F.S.O.'s posts - it's not like there's no content!

It is purely visual for me. It hurts, in the same way that PianoStreet's white on black hurts, in the same way that trying to read tiny print hurts. The ums are only a problem because when I land on one I tend to lose the place and re-land on another instead. I'm not visually impaired to any great extent, but I do have some vision loss in one eye, and a few other problems. I don't like pain (pain hurts!) so that's why I've decided to give up. I kind of resent the implication in a few others' posts that this is because of lack of patience and/or effort. As I said, I don't like pain. I can see and understand that F.S.O. has some pain of her own, and I'm not going to add to it by griping any more.
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#2127631 - 08/03/13 07:30 PM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: currawong]
Mark_C Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: currawong
It is purely visual for me. It hurts, in the same way that PianoStreet's white on black hurts....

I share that issue -- in fact, regarding any dark-colored background for the text. More and more magazines (and the like) seem to have become fond of having some articles with that feature, and I pretty much just can't deal with them. I rarely read them at all, and if something seems too important or interesting to ignore, I still can only give it the briefest look.

Why do they do that? (PianoStreet or anyone else.) Do a lot of people find it more interesting or appealing? Does it grab attention better than dark-on-light? I can't imagine it's because anyone finds it easier to read, and some of us find it a lot harder. I've been close to writing to publications about this a few times....

P.S. I don't belong to PianoStreet but for a different reason: they require having Private Messaging. I did join, then saw that there's no option to disable it, and had my membership removed.

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#2127683 - 08/03/13 09:31 PM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: Mark_C]
currawong Offline
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Registered: 05/15/07
Posts: 5947
Loc: Down Under
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Why do they do that? (PianoStreet or anyone else.)
Because them wot makes the decisions are younger than 45. laugh
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Du holde Kunst...

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#2127695 - 08/03/13 09:53 PM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: currawong]
D. S. F. Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/10/10
Posts: 144
Wow, I am learning a lot here. I did not know a dark background causes so much problems. I actually thought that was more comfortable on the eye, because there is so much less light coming back at you...that's what I thought would strain the eye. Every blog page I've ever had was white words on a dark page...oh boy...
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Music does not have to be understood;
It has to be listened to.
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#2127701 - 08/03/13 10:05 PM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: D. S. F.]
pianoloverus Online   content
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Originally Posted By: D. S. F.
Wow, I am learning a lot here. I did not know a dark background causes so much problems. I actually thought that was more comfortable on the eye, because there is so much less light coming back at you...that's what I thought would strain the eye. Every blog page I've ever had was white words on a dark page...oh boy...
A dark background causes problems for some people. I prefer it and selected the white print on a black background for my viewing of PW.

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#2127839 - 08/04/13 07:41 AM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: currawong]
wr Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 7913
Originally Posted By: currawong
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
I would add (and I wonder if this is true for Curra too) that the "eyesight" thing actually goes a little beyond the purely visual. The lack of more visual organization of the posts is fairly brain-scrambling; the unorganized layout is unsettling to the mind as well as to the eye. It's not that I'm incapable of dealing with unorganized or chaotic stuff, but it feels like work (for me, literally) grin .....and when I'm on here, I don't want to feel like I'm at work.
I thought about this for a while, Mark, and I don't think this is the case for me. I tend to try to write clearly myself (it's not really just an American thing, is it Tim? I'm definitely not American smile ) but I don't mind the chaotic aspects of F.S.O.'s posts - it's not like there's no content!

It is purely visual for me. It hurts, in the same way that PianoStreet's white on black hurts, in the same way that trying to read tiny print hurts. The ums are only a problem because when I land on one I tend to lose the place and re-land on another instead. I'm not visually impaired to any great extent, but I do have some vision loss in one eye, and a few other problems. I don't like pain (pain hurts!) so that's why I've decided to give up. I kind of resent the implication in a few others' posts that this is because of lack of patience and/or effort. As I said, I don't like pain. I can see and understand that F.S.O. has some pain of her own, and I'm not going to add to it by griping any more.



It has occurred to me that, for some, the visual problem with reading FSO's posts may be something that is specific to the display settings of their monitor and other options found in their browsers.

We are not all seeing the same thing, so it is probably a mistake to talk as if we were.

I know that my own comfort level with viewing large chunks of unformatted text has a lot to do with those settings, and maybe it just happens that my current monitor/browser settings work fairly well for those posts. But I'm in the habit of tweaking fonts, font sizes and/or the window size if I run into visual problems. I'm not sure if others do the same, but it can be very helpful. For example, long lines of text can be a visual problem for me, so I got into the habit of resizing the window to make them shorter when I need to.

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#2127841 - 08/04/13 07:45 AM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: wr]
currawong Offline
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Registered: 05/15/07
Posts: 5947
Loc: Down Under
Originally Posted By: wr
For example, long lines of text can be a visual problem for me, so I got into the habit of resizing the window to make them shorter when I need to.
Sort of Gyro-format? laugh
Actually, those are good points, wr, and some good ideas. I might play around with it. Have to admit I'd never thought of it.
_________________________
Du holde Kunst...

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#2127897 - 08/04/13 10:50 AM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: wr]
carey Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6377
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted By: wr
It has occurred to me that, for some, the visual problem with reading FSO's posts may be something that is specific to the display settings of their monitor and other options found in their browsers.

We are not all seeing the same thing, so it is probably a mistake to talk as if we were.

I know that my own comfort level with viewing large chunks of unformatted text has a lot to do with those settings, and maybe it just happens that my current monitor/browser settings work fairly well for those posts. But I'm in the habit of tweaking fonts, font sizes and/or the window size if I run into visual problems. I'm not sure if others do the same, but it can be very helpful. For example, long lines of text can be a visual problem for me, so I got into the habit of resizing the window to make them shorter when I need to.

The same thing finally occurred to me as well. My own visual challenges (I see a Retina Specialist every six weeks - which involves shots, laser treatments, etc. to help prevent further visual deterioration and distortion) make it challenging to navigate through the visual clutter of FSO's posts that I alluded to earlier in this thread. My eyes (and brain) have to work very hard just to see things "normally." Perhaps it is time for me to give in and start experimenting with font size, window size, background color, etc. Fortunately, I have a much easier time reading musical notation than straight lines of text - even though the notes don't appear as "crisp and clear" as they used to, and reading the printed editorial "fingerings" is almost impossible.

So, no, we are not seeing the same thing. And for each of us, perception is reality. Therefore, perhaps we (and I include myself in this) all need to try to be a little more tolerant and understanding of the perspectives of others.


Edited by carey (08/04/13 10:53 AM)
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#2127918 - 08/04/13 12:13 PM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: FSO]
Damon Online   happy
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Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 6169
Loc: St. Louis area
I might have guessed that the length of this thread was due to the OP's writing style as opposed to her improv. laugh Personally, she lost me at um.
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#2127920 - 08/04/13 12:14 PM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: wr]
Mark_C Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: wr
It has occurred to me that, for some, the visual problem with reading FSO's posts may be something that is specific to the display settings of their monitor and other options found in their browsers.

We are not all seeing the same thing, so it is probably a mistake to talk as if we were.....

Three things:

-- We're not talking as though we're all seeing the same thing, but in any event in terms of things relevant to what I was talking about, I'd guess that we essentially are, except for whatever color selections we choose. I do see that it might be otherwise for Curra's concerns.

-- Anyway the two of us are talking just about ourselves, not about anyone else, except to the extent that I'm guessing we're not the only people in the world to whom these kinds of things apply.

Quote:
I'm in the habit of tweaking fonts, font sizes and/or the window size if I run into visual problems. I'm not sure if others do the same....

I do, a lot, and it doesn't affect what I was talking about.

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#2128510 - 08/05/13 01:42 PM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: FSO]
FSO Offline
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Registered: 04/03/12
Posts: 854
Loc: UK, Brighton
Aww...there's been a lot of aww to feel..so thank you, for making me feel unexpectedly better about...a lot, really laugh I shan't ever expect anyone to fiddle about with formatting on my behalf; that's pushing the limits on lengthy a step too far really is, but, um, I don't mind conceding that I could be difficult for some. Just...all I could ever hope to ask is that everyone's nice about whatever they have to say...*that*, I hope, might make things easier to swallow, even if no less difficult to swallow...I mean, um, poor stores dear gets it in the neck...he dishes it out perhaps even stronger smile but even so, I can't feel bad about how *how he writes* grants him such a negative recoil...but anyway, um, thank you, generally, for being lovely...
Xxx
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Sometimes, we all just need to be shown a little kindness <3

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#2131134 - 08/11/13 08:48 AM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: FSO]
Michael Sayers Offline
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Registered: 02/15/13
Posts: 1177
Loc: Stockholms lšn, Sverige
Greetings,

The improvisation is tremendous especially with its implicit range of tone colour if one listens long enough.

There isn't anything wrong with the duration, Sorabji's Opus Clavicembalisticum is hours long. Here is a recording of the opening 15 minutes, I think you might like it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8LALbLMlH4

What is amazing is that you can keep your focus for so long improvising in one sitting (I assume that is what this is)!


M.

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#2131471 - 08/11/13 11:55 PM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: FSO]
FSO Offline
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Registered: 04/03/12
Posts: 854
Loc: UK, Brighton
Thank you Michael, that's very kind of you to say...that particular work is what actually brought me here; a search yielded this site as some form of resource as, at the time, I was rather...enamoured with it (I love Powell's interpretation <3). Personally I find longer works much more satisfying, but, um, especially, I believe, in more recent times attention spans have waned a tad and anything over, say, a couple of hours is scarcely listened to...but, really, um, surely many of the pianists here have improvised for dozens of hours at a time; if not, certainly they'll have practiced for this long and, really, I find *that* amazing laugh Thank you, though...it was sweet of you to say...
Xxx
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Sometimes, we all just need to be shown a little kindness <3

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#2131558 - 08/12/13 06:43 AM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: Michael Sayers]
wr Offline
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Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 7913
Originally Posted By: Michael Sayers


There isn't anything wrong with the duration, Sorabji's Opus Clavicembalisticum is hours long.


Which is like saying there's nothing wrong with the duration, because, after all, people have spent years in a persistent vegetative state.

(And just to make sure people don't get it wrong - the comparison I am making is to OC, and not to FSO's improv)


Edited by wr (08/12/13 07:14 AM)

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#2131612 - 08/12/13 09:01 AM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: wr]
Michael Sayers Offline
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Registered: 02/15/13
Posts: 1177
Loc: Stockholms lšn, Sverige
Originally Posted By: wr
Which is like saying there's nothing wrong with the duration, because, after all, people have spent years in a persistent vegetative state.

(And just to make sure people don't get it wrong - the comparison I am making is to OC, and not to FSO's improv)


Is it being suggested that O.C. is only for being listened to by vegetarians? wink

M.

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#2131619 - 08/12/13 09:11 AM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: FSO]
FSO Offline
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Registered: 04/03/12
Posts: 854
Loc: UK, Brighton
Of course! Vegetarians listen to the best moosic.......oh shush, you loved it laugh
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Sometimes, we all just need to be shown a little kindness <3

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#2131675 - 08/12/13 10:51 AM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: FSO]
Michael Sayers Offline
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Registered: 02/15/13
Posts: 1177
Loc: Stockholms lšn, Sverige
Originally Posted By: FSO
Of course! Vegetarians listen to the best moosic.......oh shush, you loved it laugh


I am sorry that I can't properly reply at the moment, I must get on with a possibly stultifying Palak Paneer grin

M.

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#2131688 - 08/12/13 11:11 AM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: FSO]
FSO Offline
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Registered: 04/03/12
Posts: 854
Loc: UK, Brighton
Apologies curry no favours and have a propensity for making happy faces saag...
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Sometimes, we all just need to be shown a little kindness <3

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#2156552 - 09/24/13 12:04 AM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: FSO]
The Wind Offline
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Registered: 05/28/13
Posts: 468
FSO: some advice: "Brevity is the soul of wit". Shakespeare.

I can't read any of your long posts. Get to the point!

The improv itself was interesting, not my style but a good effort. I don't know if you played all that in 1 sitting, but if so it might have set some kind of record.

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#2156746 - 09/24/13 09:58 AM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: The Wind]
FSO Offline
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Registered: 04/03/12
Posts: 854
Loc: UK, Brighton
...and Shakespeare's catalogue is large wink The crystal clear vase may be the most beautiful and the horrid brown waters the most disgusting....but you can hide nothing in a vase spare the clearest water; anything less betrays you...and I'd rather give a genuine surprise for those willing to wade anyway laugh Thank you; if it *was* a record...well then, um, very good...? It's good to try and remember there's something for all us non-musicians to be getting on with ha
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Sometimes, we all just need to be shown a little kindness <3

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#2156752 - 09/24/13 10:11 AM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: The Wind]
Cinnamonbear Offline
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Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 3936
Loc: Rockford, IL
Originally Posted By: The Wind
FSO: some advice: "Brevity is the soul of wit". Shakespeare.

I can't read any of your long posts. Get to the point![...]


Points, The Wind. Points... FSO's points are multifaceted, layered and nuanced. She plumbs the soul of wit. Seek the points and ye shall find them. smile
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#2157102 - 09/24/13 09:31 PM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: FSO]
The Wind Offline
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Registered: 05/28/13
Posts: 468
Honestly I can barely read a run on sentence that never ends. I sure would like to hear you talk FSO! you probably ramble on incoherently.

And I have no idea what you are trying to say. Having lived in London, UK I can attest than indeed some Brits are just a bit kooky.

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#2157154 - 09/24/13 11:24 PM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: The Wind]
Cinnamonbear Offline
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Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 3936
Loc: Rockford, IL
Sorry, FSO. It seemed like a good idea at the time to offer a supporting statement, but I seem to have poured gasoline on the fire. Now, I wish I had a fire extinguisher. frown
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but at least I'm slow.

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#2157155 - 09/24/13 11:27 PM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: FSO]
Polyphonist Offline
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Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7648
Loc: New York City
I am the fire extinguisher.

Many hate FSO's posting style, and many love it. It's useless to argue about it anymore because we know it's not going to change.

End of story.
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Polyphonist

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#2157231 - 09/25/13 03:29 AM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: FSO]
FSO Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/03/12
Posts: 854
Loc: UK, Brighton
That's okay CinnyBubble; the effort was sweet and, besides, a flame that burns brightly illuminates the dark and keeps the monsters at bay (though, of course, it *will* attract moths)...."I am the fire extinguisher".....this, alone, is the most avant-garde thing I've read in some time.... laugh
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Sometimes, we all just need to be shown a little kindness <3

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#2157242 - 09/25/13 04:33 AM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: FSO]
The Wind Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/28/13
Posts: 468
maybe FSO and Gyro should get together and talk. they'd be a perfect match! Wonder where he went btw.

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#2160905 - 10/02/13 04:11 PM Re: It's another improvisation I'm afraid [Re: FSO]
woodog Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/21/12
Posts: 415
Loc: Bowling Green, KY
Of fire extinguishers and moths... what a delightful segue to one of my favorites from childhood...

The Lesson of the Moth
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current studies:
Debussy: Suite Bergamasque
Bach 848, 866
Schumann Op. 15

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