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Joined: Jul 2009
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So I'm assuming you wish of me to take Casio back into consideration.. I understand why Casio doesn't specify what piano they sample, because of promotional purposes of course. I am truly, just simply, looking for a great manufacturer that samples a Steinway concert grand. Even if Roland does it, they do something to their sound that ruins it for me... Casio, on the other hand, I am unsure of. I am not saying they're a bad brand to have at all ! I wouldn't know.. From the sound of tutorial videos online, they sound great. If I may show you, there is a video comparison of a Casio AP-450 vs "A concert grand piano", I believe this "concert grand piano" is a Steinway. Now, I have heard that the AP series and the Privia series essentially sound the same. Or similar at least. So hopefully if I do get a Casio, it will be decently accurate TO A STEINWAY, if that is the piano sampled. So here is the video, please tell me if you think that piano is a Steinway as well. SKIP TO THE 1:20 MARK. You can see the brand logo/name on the side of the piano. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENliynLPfrE I was not involved with that video but from what I see in the video that appears to be a Steinway.
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Joined: Aug 2009
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Casio is the second largest digital piano manufacturer in the world. Mike, may I ask, is that based on annual unit sales, profit, number of employees, etc.? Cheers, James x Sales. Of course Kawai may be bigger if you include acoustic pianos, but that isn't what I said. Likewise Roland is probably a larger company in the "music equipment business" but when it comes to digital pianos Casio has a much larger share. Do the 4 Privias I've bought through the years count me as one customer or as four?
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Joined: Oct 2014
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Haha very true ! I am not doubting Casio ! I have read about many people thinking they were child's play in the past, but have now become a big competitor with their latest product line-ups. Like you have mentioned, in the $2,500, I still may find something better to me. Currently, I have not. I will be testing some Yamahas and Kawais soon. Sadly, no Casios around.
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Joined: Jul 2009
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Joined: Oct 2014
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I believe it is a Steinway as well, however it is a little bit difficult to see the logo. From looking at the length of the brand name, I would say it is indeed a Steinway.
I live in West Virginia, I live near the capital, Charleston. Without giving out too much info haha, if a postal code is needed just in case I will happily tell you. My postal code is 25508.
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Joined: Oct 2012
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I've been enjoying my PX-850 very much for what it's worth. I had previously a Yamaha DGX 630, with lighter GHS action. I tested in a shop with headphones on to be sure it would be worth the change. In my youth I had an acoustic. The action was far lighter than my teacher's. Every keyboard is different, it's as simple as that.
regarding sound, the PX-850 is fine enough to me. Some people find it too bright (though there're controls to tune that) or too "plonky" (whatever that means), but I've had no such big deal. The sound engine feels more natural than the old DGX, though offering far less voices. The speakers do a very good job, resonate deeply, though I usually just use headphones.
It's fine enough for training, but when recording I usually resort to Pianoteq stage, it's just way superior to any budget DP no doubt. If I knew as much as today, I'd probably purchase a cheaper PX-350 (same action right?) or PX-5S hooked up to pianoteq...
Last edited by Doritos Flavoured; 10/29/14 02:39 PM.
unlocked by keys
wordless poetry sings free
- piano music -
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Joined: Oct 2014
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So the key action is much lighter than your teacher's real acoustic... I'll remember that.
Is Pianoteq really all that good? It seems that through all of the messages and conversations I have been going through with people, Pianoteq is brought up.. I will definitely have to look into it.. If I get a cheaper piano, maybe I could use the money I saved on VSTs? Since all of you seem to believe that VSTs far surpass factory set sounds, I will have to realllllllly look into them. But I hate having to use my computer everyday to play just to get a decent sound out of my piano... I guess I'll just get used to it. So Ivory, and Pianoteq seems to be the most recommended two. I won't have the oppurtunity to try out a Casio, but as before mentioned, I will soon try out Yamahas and Kawais. I suppose it would be good to figure out my opinions on them.. Thank you a lot.
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Joined: Jan 2014
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It's obvious that VST's surpass sample based DP, some fo them have 13, 50 or even hundreds of gigabytes in samples.
Nord biggest piano library is about 250mb. Don't know how much Yamaha, Kawai and Casio can put in their DP.
Pianoteq is pure modelling andis supposed to respond better than sampled pianos, but The sound is not as realistic.
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So the key action is much lighter than your teacher's real acoustic... I'll remember that. no, my acoustic piano back then had lighter action than my teacher's acoustic. Is Pianoteq really all that good? it's lovely
unlocked by keys
wordless poetry sings free
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Ahh I see, I thought you were comparing the Casio to your teacher's old piano.
I can't wait to see what Pianoteq has to offer then.
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What do you mean Pianoteq's sound is not AS realistic as a sampled DP? With how everyone speaks of it, you'd think it sounds amazing...
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Pianoteq is pure modelling andis supposed to respond better than sampled pianos, but The sound is not as realistic. That's the problem with "realistic" here. Does Pianoteq sound like the real grand piano it was sampled from? No, because there was no sampling and no real piano in the first place. So the questions to ask are: Does it sound like a piano should sound? Does the virtual model behave like a piano should behave? You may not like the sound of Pianoteq, but you may also not like the sound of a specific acoustic piano either. Is that AP with real strings inside less "realistic" then? 
Yamaha P-515
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Joined: Oct 2012
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Pianoteq is pure modelling andis supposed to respond better than sampled pianos, but The sound is not as realistic. That's the problem with "realistic" here. Does Pianoteq sound like the real grand piano it was sampled from? No, because there was no sampling and no real piano in the first place. So the questions to ask are: Does it sound like a piano should sound? Does the virtual model behave like a piano should behave? You may not like the sound of Pianoteq, but you may also not like the sound of a specific acoustic piano either. Is that AP with real strings inside less "realistic" then? just use your ears: https://www.pianoteq.com/listen_ecompetitionof course, pianoteq demo is free (though lacking in features, including notes)...
unlocked by keys
wordless poetry sings free
- piano music -
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,908
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The only software piano I've tried is Pianoteq, since you usually can't try out other ones, they have no trial versions. Did try the ever popular giants on the market, Galaxy Vintage D and Ivory American Concert D, on try-sound.com. Think they sounded fine, but latency made it almost impossible to use this feature try-sound offers. Besides, there was always a bird song in the background, has anyone experienced that?
That said, I feel Pianoteq sounds lifeless, strange and doesn't have the character one expects a software piano to have (even though it's not a real piano.) However it sounds fine to me when recorded.
Me on YouTubeCasio PX-5S. Garritan CFX, Production Grand 2 Gold, Concert Grand LE, AcousticSamples C7, some Sampletekks. Pianoteq 8 Std (Blüthner, SteinGraeber, NY/HB Steinway D).
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Joined: Feb 2010
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What do you mean Pianoteq's sound is not AS realistic as a sampled DP? With how everyone speaks of it, you'd think it sounds amazing... It's similar to the debate over Roland's SuperNatural piano, which also employs modeling. Some people love it, some don't. Roland SN and Pianoteq are still quite different from each other, though, so don't assume that if you dislike one, you'll dislike the other (or vice versa).
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Joined: Oct 2014
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I do not like Roland, but I will take your advice and give Pianoteq a try, not basing it off past opinions of modeling.
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Joined: Oct 2013
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Pianoteq doesn't sound that great right out of the box, at least it didn't to me, but it was intriguing enough that I kept fooling around with it, and finally bought it. The sounds in most stage pianos are carefully engineered to sound good (with what's specifically in THAT piano) if you just sit down and flip the piano on, but Pianoteq doesn't give you that. It doesn't know what you're playing so you get kind of a generic sound until you do some work.
I've also noticed that people have real preferences for particular pianos in Pianoteq and they aren't all the same preferences. I really like some of the old pianos - they are completely different from the built-in voices my piano and they're fun to play. Of the mainstream pianos, the only one that really stands out for me is the Blüthner. I kind of like the U4 upright, too.
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Sample pianos use recordings from single notes, at different velocities to recreate a piano. So their "source" is a real piano.
But sampled pianos don't behave as one because the samples don't interact as the whole real piano does, and they also doesn't sample every velocity possible.
Modeled Pianos as Pianoteq, or roland V-piano, don't use samples they use complex models to recreate all the physical interactions in a real piano. So when you press a key they create a sound that interacts with the rest of the model.
That's why they sound different, and in the end is about what you like more, some people like modeled pianos more because they respond better and like the overall sound. Some hear the difference with an acoustic and simply dont like it.
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Something tells me that since sampled pianos are recordings of their respective source grand pianos, note for note, they are bound to contain a great deal of the character of each source piano. Of course never the whole character, because the mechanism of the acoustic piano is not transferred to it's software offspring, for obvious reasons.
The way I understand modeling, is that it's complex mathematics for emulating a piano (not a particular one, if I'm not mistaken.) That said, the formulas/algorhithms for the modeling have become more advanced, but presumably not enough. It still sounds "calculated." Correct me if I'm wrong in any of my speculations.
Me on YouTubeCasio PX-5S. Garritan CFX, Production Grand 2 Gold, Concert Grand LE, AcousticSamples C7, some Sampletekks. Pianoteq 8 Std (Blüthner, SteinGraeber, NY/HB Steinway D).
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TheodorN, you sir, speak my mind exactly.
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