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Printer1: thanks for that insight. I actually have a sheet music version (not a jazz real book) of Out of No Where, and you are dead on. That F7 is a C minor chord. I'd been taught the back door turn around, which is the VII7, but you've shown the origin in the iv7 chord that is used so much in the old standards.
Jjo, very glad it was helpful and thanks for verifying that ...
Printer,
We had theory classes at camp each morning, and in one of them, Pat Harbison went pretty heavily into soloing / reharm options. At one point, he explained the concept of the backdoor dominant. What's funny is that the guy next to me said: "Well where would you use that", because really it's pretty far out. And I said "No, not that far out, it's in Out of Nowhere".
Anyway, it's kind of cool I asked that very question the week before and it came up in context. Thanks for the help!
Knotty! Glad to hear that helped! Sounds like camp was great!
Knotty, I'm in the middle of no where w/out a piano. Having said that ..
I haven't really played this tune so I don't have my oown take on it. So w/that as disclaimer ...
This is one of a bunch of tunes that modulates from I to major III. Tangerine and I'm old fashioned are two others. That major third mod is very striking and of course something you see in full bloom in Giant Steps. Meaning the transition from C major to E major and then back to C major is a really strong motion around which to build everything else.
You COULD play GB-style scales over the changes and of course that'll work. But, from looking at the changes my guess is they're all 'someone's reharmonization of simpler harmonies in the original tune. If Bill Evans has a recording of this tune I'd definitely look there to find the chords he uses. I'd also try playing the tune w/as few chords as possible. Meaning see where you can reduce the changes to one chord per measure - or even less! Because most of the chords in the lead sheet are really only passing chords to get from I to V or I to vi. There are A LOT of passing chords you could use instead of those in the lead sheet. If you did simplify the chords a bass player could work from the simpler version and you could dress up the melody w/extra passing chords and all would work very well.
In terms of soloing over the specific chords in the leadsheet I'm sure you see that most of the chords are there only to dress up a diatonic melody. Which suggests a solo style that's diatonic and which uses chromatic tones to LEAD from one chord to another. Or, you might look at all of the chords given in the leadsheet like Coltrane might have looked at chords in standards he played w/Monk. Meaning you'd look to hit every chord change with a scale so the harmonies would be there right out in the front of your solo.
Two more ideas ... you might put everything in C major over a G pedal point and everything in E major over a B pedal point. That'll emphasize the major third relationship and it might even lead you to play very diatonically over Cmajor sections and then E major sections. Or you might add the pedal points and play diatonically very close the original melody.
.... ummm ... I won't say where but I'm certain you see the opportunity following a d minor chord for a back door dom.!
And the standard disclaimer applies to all above. Some of it, most of it, all of it, or none of it might work stock out of the box and vice versa. All depends on voice leading.
Sorry if this is too verbose! And hope it helps! (Is there a recording of the tune that you like?)
It was soon after buying a new kawai grand, so I couldn't do my usual capture of the notes on a midi keyboard and create a readable transcription. I remember I was practising transposing up a minor third from the leadsheet in C to Eb. I did however annotate it with some comments on some of the ideas I used which you might find useful and also added a melody/basic chords.
Printer, your post are never too verbose, but your generosity is always very appreciated. Give me a bit to chew it up. I already have a couple more questions for you. I came back from camp totally on fire, but full of questions. I thought "I bet printer would know".
Doug, Very nice rendition, thank you for posting. It gives a lot of great ideas, especially for arranging.
Having Rufus Reid coach our combo the entire week was incredible. He gave me no slack.
Having had RR coach me in the combo my first week (the second week I had Jim Rotondi, a brilliant trumpeter as well as combo instructor) I can attest to Knotty's statement. Mr Reid is a true gentleman, a cuddly teddy-bear with claws and tremendous knowledge and experience that he is very willing to share.
Jim Rotondi said something interesting one day that he never thinks in scales, only chords.
Hi Doug. Really nice harmony and great playing on How about you. Love that tune !
I think the original key is G. Almost everyone that plays it in LA calls it in F. Most often it's pretty uptempo. But just wanted to add a fwiw/alternate changes to bars 9 through 12.
Staying in one of your keys, C, I noticed you always use:
Dm | Fm6 Bb7 | Em7 F Maj. 7 | F#m7b5 B7 ||
I like it..the bass goes up where on what I'm used to hearing..the bass walks down.
Seems like a lot of people here do:
Dm Dm/C | Bm7b5 E7 | Am Am/G | F#m7b5 B7||
Another alternate I've played:
F#m7b5 | Fm6 | C/E Dm7 | C 6/9 B7 ||
Another alternate on the second half in bar 23, sometimes guys use the flat 5 again. So from bar 21:
Gm7 | C7 | F#m7b5 | Fm6 Bb7 |
In the one of your C versions at 4:07 you go to an A/F or F MAj 7+5 at bar 23. Very cool effect !.
Like printer mentioned, a lot of people use that pedal bass tone (B in the key of C) during the bridge. Works well, especially when the song is played uptempo.
2005 NY Steinway D Yamaha AvantGrand N3X, CP88, P-515
Thanks for taking the trouble to check out the video. I like those alternatives that you mention - I must try another play through using them. I remember that I just set the camera up and played through a number of times. I was practising reading a leadsheet in one key and playing in another. I am not so clever at instant transposition, especially if it takes me too far from the original key that I know it in. I do like the 'up (or down) a minor 3rd' move as in Bill Evans' version of 'Wine and Roses' where each 16 is alternately played in F or Ab.
I did it just after buying the Kawai that I am playing on the video. It is in a small room, and is difficult to record, so wasn't all that happy with the recorded sound.
By the way how are you finding your NORD piano? I know, like me, you were happy with the sound, but that you were struggling with the feel of the keyboard. I must say that I think I am finally getting used to it!
Love McCoy, too, but it reminds me why I don't listen to much YouTube; the sound quality just sucks. When I want to explore an artist or a tune, I use Spotify. YouTube has all these great live cuts, but the sound is just too great a compromise.
Love McCoy, too, but it reminds me why I don't listen to much YouTube; the sound quality just sucks. When I want to explore an artist or a tune, I use Spotify. YouTube has all these great live cuts, but the sound is just too great a compromise.
Can u save to mp3 so that you can run into transcribe?
![[Linked Image]](http://i675.photobucket.com/albums/vv118/knotty75/ScreenShot2013-07-16at75215PM.png)
