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#2125283 - 07/30/13 12:07 PM Striking distance
Tuneless Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/17/13
Posts: 90
Loc: AZ, USA
Shouldn't the striking distance be the same for all hammers? My farthest base hammer (#1), with essentially no wear, has a bore of 2.15", and my treble bore is 2.35". The trebles may be questionable for wear, but not by 2 tenths of an inch. Is this typical? I am about to order a few treble hammers to replace a few worn trebles.
_________________________
Cynthia - Conover Upright, 1888/9, but a very low mileage piano. Piano pics, http://www.pbase.com/schnitz/conover_upright_piano__1888_or_9 .
Tuneless = Don't play piano and couldn't tune a guitar, much less a piano.
I'm technically very capable. I love my piano and love tinkering with it.

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#2125285 - 07/30/13 12:21 PM Re: Striking distance [Re: Tuneless]
Johnkie Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/04/11
Posts: 664
Loc: England
The strike distance should indeed be roughly the same .... but the distance between bass and treble hammers to the string is different .... being overstrung !

You have me wondering how you are going to manage getting a few new treble hammers though .... they only come in complete sets wink
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#2125287 - 07/30/13 12:24 PM Re: Striking distance [Re: Tuneless]
Olek Online   content
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 6356
Loc: France
Cynthia, I am unsure of your question, depends i the piano is cross strung or no, but you cannot "really" order a few treble hammers.
If they are really worn you could glue a little leather on the last high treble hammers. not an extraordinary result but you will be less prone to break strings.

the techs where doing so some 50-80 years ago.


Edited by Olek (07/30/13 12:24 PM)
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#2125295 - 07/30/13 12:39 PM Re: Striking distance [Re: Tuneless]
Silverwood Pianos Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 4182
Loc: Vancouver B. C. Canada

Some of the US suppliers used to sell partial sets of treble hammers, usually the top twenty.
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#2125298 - 07/30/13 12:44 PM Re: Striking distance [Re: Olek]
Tuneless Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/17/13
Posts: 90
Loc: AZ, USA
OK, I forgot about the cross over of the bass strings over the tenor strings. That explains the difference.

What is the danger in replacing these hammers? There have already been a number of these high treble hammers replaced. The wear on the highest trebles is much more than on the rest of the hammers, or maybe there just wasn't much felt there in the first place. It appears that a few of the highest trebles were lacquered unlike the rest of the hammers and are practically solid plastic of some sort. Acetone/lacquer thinner had no effect.

These strings will be eventually replaced, but one new challenge at a time.
_________________________
Cynthia - Conover Upright, 1888/9, but a very low mileage piano. Piano pics, http://www.pbase.com/schnitz/conover_upright_piano__1888_or_9 .
Tuneless = Don't play piano and couldn't tune a guitar, much less a piano.
I'm technically very capable. I love my piano and love tinkering with it.

Top
#2125303 - 07/30/13 12:51 PM Re: Striking distance [Re: Tuneless]
Tuneless Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/17/13
Posts: 90
Loc: AZ, USA
International Piano Supply will sell a few hammers, but this depends on their having the right size, so we'll see. I could live with just one new hammer I suppose. Also, I see that in my treble hammers, the hammers appear to be raked downward slightly. The angle between the hammer centerline and the shank is about 88 degrees. Is this typical?

OK, found my answer here, http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/2086727/Hammer%20Rake%20Angle%20(upright).html


Edited by Tuneless (07/30/13 02:46 PM)
_________________________
Cynthia - Conover Upright, 1888/9, but a very low mileage piano. Piano pics, http://www.pbase.com/schnitz/conover_upright_piano__1888_or_9 .
Tuneless = Don't play piano and couldn't tune a guitar, much less a piano.
I'm technically very capable. I love my piano and love tinkering with it.

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#2125304 - 07/30/13 12:52 PM Re: Striking distance [Re: Tuneless]
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 20749
Loc: Oakland
Originally Posted By: Tuneless
What is the danger in replacing these hammers?


You mean, aside from explosion or releasing poisonous gases? (I hate it when that happens!) The biggest danger is that you will do it poorly. The pitfalls that you can run into depend on how you do it.
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#2125305 - 07/30/13 12:52 PM Re: Striking distance [Re: Tuneless]
Silverwood Pianos Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 4182
Loc: Vancouver B. C. Canada

Collodium was used on the top end most likely.
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#2125399 - 07/30/13 04:22 PM Re: Striking distance [Re: Tuneless]
beethoven986 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/20/09
Posts: 3296
Usually, string height - center pin height = bore distance. I measure center pin height for note #1 and #88, then measure the string heights for the first and last note of each section (plus the first and last wound tenor strings, if present). I also measure bore distance on the hammers... usually they are the same, or close enough... it is normal for string heights to vary a few mm throughout the piano. Using two methods lowers the chance of making mistakes.
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#2125493 - 07/30/13 07:07 PM Re: Striking distance [Re: Tuneless]
Gene Nelson Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 1429
Loc: Old Hangtown California
it is normal for string heights to vary a few mm throughout the piano.
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Very true, especially where the agraffe transitions to capo and from there to the treble - some pianos worse than others.
The question for Cynthia is how to cope with this.
Keep a straight hammer line? Keep a consistent bore distance? Keep a consistent hammer blow distance? Keep a consistent key dip? You cannot have it all.
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PTG Member

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#2125712 - 07/31/13 06:23 AM Re: Striking distance [Re: beethoven986]
Olek Online   content
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 6356
Loc: France
Originally Posted By: beethoven986
Usually, string height - center pin height = bore distance. I measure center pin height for note #1 and #88, then measure the string heights for the first and last note of each section (plus the first and last wound tenor strings, if present). I also measure bore distance on the hammers... usually they are the same, or close enough... it is normal for string heights to vary a few mm throughout the piano. Using two methods lowers the chance of making mistakes.


up to 3 mm the hammers can have a standard bore.
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