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#2125209 - 07/30/13 09:38 AM What causes unstable voicing?
JFK2 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/12/13
Posts: 26

Dear technician
I wonder if I can get some inside why a new piano
Seems to be unevenly voiced and can not
Keep the tune.
. I wonder if One should consider changing any
Parts such as hammers ... Would it fix it.

Thanks for your advise in advance


Edited by mwallace (07/30/13 09:40 AM)

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#2125235 - 07/30/13 10:32 AM Re: What causes unstable voicing? [Re: JFK2]
Johnkie Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/04/11
Posts: 760
Loc: England
If as you state, it is in fact a new piano, then I would be reasonably sure in saying the most likely answer to your problems would be to get someone experienced in tuning and toning to work on your piano. New pianos can be extremely difficult to get to stay in tune unless the wrestpins are nicely set, and with new pianos generally having tight planks an inexperienced tuner will struggle. Voicing is normally done after tuning so that loose unisons don't confuse any toning issues.

Your piano will need time to settle down, but a really well trained and experienced tuner/technician should be able to shorten that time considerably.

As regards to needing new parts ..... why would a new piano need new parts ?
_________________________
Concert Tuner & Technician for the past 49 years in the United Kingdom
and Member of the Pianoforte Tuners' Association (London)
www.jphillipspianoservices.freeindex.co.uk : E-mail jophillips06@aol.com

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#2125436 - 07/30/13 05:40 PM Re: What causes unstable voicing? [Re: JFK2]
Tunersteve Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/29/13
Posts: 3
Loc: UK
The tuning on new pianos is often wild and the tone harsh - a bit 'in your face'. Getting to the bottom of the problems will usually involve a bit of regulating and voicing.
Buying a new piano, the customer has every right to expect these issues to be dealt with but you are by no means alone! Retailers tend to offer a free tuning, take your money and leave you alone.
Best to go back to the supplier and try to get them to sort it out!
_________________________
Tunersteve
www.thetunersblog.blogspot.co.uk

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#2125738 - 07/31/13 08:13 AM Re: What causes unstable voicing? [Re: JFK2]
BoseEric Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/08/06
Posts: 733
Loc: Fairfield County, CT
What kind of piano?
_________________________
RPT. In the business: Feurich pianos, Neupert harpsichords, Hidrau benches, piano technician

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#2125757 - 07/31/13 09:31 AM Re: What causes unstable voicing? [Re: JFK2]
Olek Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7904
Loc: France
A piano at the edge of good voicing is sensitive to moisture change, as the hammer felt may be harder or softer easily.

If the original voicing was not done enough (this is common) there is no much leeway - I often see pianos where the future packing of the hammers have not been taken in account and the tone at ppp is too hard.

the felts also need to pack by playing so the tone develops , is more precise, with more partials and a good attack.

Strings imprints help that, depending of the piano they densify the partial content.
_________________________
It is critical that you call your Senators and Representatives and ask them to cosponsor S. 2587 and H.R. 5052. Getting your legislators to cosponsor these bills


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#2127231 - 08/02/13 11:44 PM Re: What causes unstable voicing? [Re: JFK2]
Bob Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/01/01
Posts: 3940
It could be said that a new piano is never worse than it is when new. A new piano needs to settle in. Tunings will hold longer as the strings stop stretching out. The tone will take shape as the piano is played in, and voicing touch ups are done. Touch up regulation fights action felt compression. These issues are why a new piano needs more frequent service in the first few years.
_________________________
www.PianoTunerOrlando.com






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#2127271 - 08/03/13 01:05 AM Re: What causes unstable voicing? [Re: JFK2]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7439
Loc: Rochester MN
There is a related thread in the Piano Forum. It includes a particularly interesting post by Ed Foote.

"Opening Up" Piano Tone
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2127485 - 08/03/13 02:03 PM Re: What causes unstable voicing? [Re: Bob]
Olek Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7904
Loc: France
Originally Posted By: Bob
It could be said that a new piano is never worse than it is when new. A new piano needs to settle in. Tunings will hold longer as the strings stop stretching out. The tone will take shape as the piano is played in, and voicing touch ups are done. Touch up regulation fights action felt compression. These issues are why a new piano needs more frequent service in the first few years.


That relates to the amount of stabilization allowed at the factory.

On first grade grands it was not unusual to have the pianos broken in at the factory (I heard that piano students where allowed to train on grand pianos at Bechstein, but it may be more or less true..

It also happen on the sales floor when a piano stay in the shop for 6-12 years, tuner, a little played.

In any case, regulation is done more than once on the normal course .

The piano is broken in with machione playing then regulated and voiced again.
All regulations are done 3 times on a good quality grand.

I have been very surprised to learn that the NY Steinways where not sold in that "ready to play" condition.
To give an example, the Hamburg ones are prepped to the point the string hook (to level unison) is not a tool in the bag of the concert technician. The job have been done to the point not a string a have to be leveled (in theory, of course).

All those operations take time, and cost, and the high quality is only noticed by real high level pianists, so I understand they are done minimally on cheaper instruments.

That gives some work to the good technician (if the customer can understand the situation)

It can be surprising, an instrument that is not enough preped is about 50% of its musicality, hence the desire sometime to "change the hammers" or modify the bridge.
As much as good hammers can help if the original ones are so so, this should not be necessary on a new piano.

But voicing is a specialty that takes time and good pianos, to learn , in absence of factory or good workshop training, so real voicers are the exception, and many pianos stay in a semi voiced condition.

There seem to be a tendency to look for hammers that need "no" voicing. In what I can hear it could be ideal but the FFF good quality (dense, at the edge of saturation) cannot be attained without voicing, as it is due to the dynamics of the zones immediately under the crown. more soft hammers gives a more linear dynamics and the FFF is generally very open but not concentrated enough for what I could hear.

Good for old soundboards probably.
_________________________
It is critical that you call your Senators and Representatives and ask them to cosponsor S. 2587 and H.R. 5052. Getting your legislators to cosponsor these bills


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#2128629 - 08/05/13 07:42 PM Re: What causes unstable voicing? [Re: JFK2]
Dave B Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/01/11
Posts: 2130
Loc: Philadelphia area
New pianos have more tuning and string seating issues than voicing issues. Find a tuner who has experience with new pianos and expect to add a few extra tunings over the first year or two.

Changing parts only puts you back at the beginning of the process.

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