Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Gifts and supplies for the musician
SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) Pianoteq
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
Ad (Piano Sing)
How to Make Your Piano Sing
Who's Online
64 registered (AZNpiano, Anne H, benjamink, beet31425, 18 invisible), 1170 Guests and 14 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Pianos
Page 1 of 21 1 2 3 ... 20 21 >
Topic Options
#2126899 - 08/02/13 11:38 AM FOYD - Focus On Your Domain
Saranoya Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/13
Posts: 632
Loc: Brussels, Belgium
OK, so ... casinitaly and I were talking, recently, about how difficult it is to really focus on consistent practice over the summer, when there's no weekly piano lesson perpetually looming on the horizon, for which one must always have something more or less presentable prepared.

We have MOYD, which helps us make playing the piano a major part of our daily routine. We have AOTW, where the cheering squad is always ready to pat us on the back, even for the tiniest of accomplishments. Both of those are very valuable resources on the journey towards becoming a somewhat competent piano player. At least, they are for me. But I think the same is true for many others here.

MOYD, however, does not say anything about focused practice. It just requires one to *play* every day. That includes simply running through one or two familiar pieces while tired or pressed for time. Which means that even when we stick to our MOYD commitments, it doesn't necessarily lead to making meaningful progress each and every day. And while I'm personally very grateful for the fact that the AOTW crowd is always there to congratulate me when I *do* make progress, nobody there will really hold anyone else accountable if they don't make meaningful progress on any kind of a regular basis.

So Cheryl and I came up with something a little different. I think of it as a sort of cross-breed between MOYD and AOTW. The idea being that, instead of just promising that we'll play every day, we promise that we'll *focus* every day on actual practice. At the beginning of each week, we state the goal (or goals) that we would like to have reached by the end of the week. We then focus on that specific goal (or these goals, plural) during each of our practice sessions in that week. And at the end of the week, we report back a few things:

1) Did we reach our goal?

2) If so, which specific parts of our practice routine were responsible for it? Can we translate this to other pieces (or other fragments of pieces) in the future?

3) If not, why not? Was the goal too ambitious? Did we practice wrong? Did we get side-tracked by other things, and what can we do to avoid that in the future?

Cheryl and I originally thought of this as something we could just do between the two of us. A buddy system of sorts. But then I figured, hey, why not open this up to the entire ABF community? I'm sure there are some others here who are going through the 'summer blues', and would like to find a way to get back on track.

So, if you want to jump in, feel free!

Participation is really easy: you just post a specific goal, and the date by which you would like to have reached it. If you want to, you can include a detailed practice schedule, certain practice techniques that you're going to try, and/or anything else that you hope will help you get to where you're wanting to go. But you don't have to. Just a goal and a due date will suffice.

Once the due date has been reached, you come back here and report on your progress. You tell us whether or not your goal has been reached, what did or didn't help you get there, which bits of your practice plan (if any) actually worked, and so on.

Sounds good? Jump in! Anyone can join!

Top
(ads P/S)

Petrof Pianos

#2126904 - 08/02/13 11:56 AM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
Saranoya Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/13
Posts: 632
Loc: Brussels, Belgium
I'll start.

Today is August 2, 2013. By August 9 (in one week), I would like to be able to play BWV 930 at recital standard. My ultimate goal is to record it either that day or the next for the August ABF recital.

The piece has 42 measures. I broke it up into three sections, the first of which (measures 1 through 16) I can already play, though not consistently error-free. My plan is to:

1) Practice section 1 (M1-16) until I can play it error-free consistently. I plan to do this by slowing way down, and using the "five consecutive error-free repeats" approach, hands together, upping the tempo each time I manage to get my five repeats.

2) Practice section 2 (M17-28) hands separate until I can get five consecutive error-free repeats at twice performance tempo for each hand.

3) Practice section 2 hands together until I can get five consecutive error-free repeats at performance tempo.

4) Practice section 3 (M29-42) hands separate until I can get five consecutive error-free repeats at twice performance tempo for each hand.

5) Practice section 3 (M29-42) hands together until I can get five consecutive error-free repeats at performance tempo.

6) Practice the entire piece, hands together, until I can get five consecutive error-free repeats at performance tempo.

That's six days of focused practice right there (maybe more, but I hope not), which should have me ready to record by August 7. I'm building in two 'reserve' days, just to be sure.

It should be noted that in my 'private' practice schedule, I was even more ambitious than this, and I'll be working on another piece concurrently. But that other piece, with any luck, will be the focus of my FOYD post for next week.
_________________________
Beginner with some priors since 9/2012

Currently Playable
Bach 846, 926, 930
Beethoven 27/2 mvt. 1
Burgmüller 100/3, 4, 7, 12, 15, 19, 25
Chopin 72/1
Clementi 36/1
Grieg 12/1, 7
Tchaikovsky 39/9

Future
Burgmüller 109
Bartok Sz 56
Mozart K331

Top
#2126925 - 08/02/13 12:31 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
casinitaly Offline


Gold Supporter until March 1 2014


Registered: 03/01/10
Posts: 5305
Loc: Italy
My homework for the summer is to have 6 pieces ready to present to my teacher on 17 Sept. They don't have to be perfect but they have to be in working condition. Sort of a launching pad for our new school year.

I've done some work on all pieces, so they are in various stages of "just started", "ongoing" and "almost done"


1) Grieg (OP 12, n3) Watchman’s Song - almost done

First target: record this weekend so I can check pedalling, improve the 32nd notes and the arpeggio chords that follow, work on the ending, which is a variation of the 2nd theme with minor differences.

Second target: final recording before 24 August.

Third target: play it well for my teacher on 17 Sept.


2. Fughetta (Pachelbel) (about half way there)

First target - slow focus on measures which are giving me grief, getting the fingering clear in my brain.

Second target: Have it all note-right by Monday and record Tuesday So I can hear errors or sloppy parts and focus on fixing them.

After that it will be working on picking up the tempo.

3. Rebikoff Evening in the Meadow – (off to a good start)

Immediate focus : getting the left-hand dotted quarter-note to be light and delicate.

Aim to record for review and benchmarking on Friday 9 August

Final target: fully playable for my 1st lesson – perhaps slightly under tempo but not much.

4. Fly Me to the Moon – Bart Howard, Dan Coates arrangement
(almost done)
First target: come to terms with a couple of bars which are not particularly difficult, but I’ve been lazy and not paying attention to them much.

Second target: picking up the tempo.
Aim to record on 11 or 12 August for review

5. Two Austrian Folk Tunes (Allegretto, Moderato) Louis Kohler (just started, but they are fairly simple - the trick will be getting up to speed)

First target – by Friday 9th August be able to play all the notes properly with the right rhythm – tempo can be slower.

Second target to do first recording 15 or 16 August (we may be away so this might slide).

6) Adagio con Espressione- Sarabande – Johann Jakob de Neufville

I've already been looking at this but haven't sorted out f a few things that I find confusing - so... those are the first things to do! Then, practice as much as possible before vacation 25th August

I probably won't have this up to speed but I’d like to have it in progress and be able to get through it for my first lesson. I’ll be bringing a photo copy on holiday so I can study it!
_________________________
XVIII-XXXV
Everything's too hard until you make it easy. Follow your teacher's instructions and practice wisely/much, and you'll soon wonder how you ever found it hard ;)-BobPickle
Performance anxiety: make it part of your daily routine and deal with it...Cope! zrtf90

Top
#2126942 - 08/02/13 01:09 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: casinitaly]
SwissMS Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/11
Posts: 853
Loc: Switzerland
I like this idea! I work much better with clearly defined goals, so I will happily join your focussed practice thread! I think the goals need to be defined such that at the end of the week, I can assess whether I achieved them. I am not starting any new pieces until my teacher returns on the 20th, so these goals are all for learned, but not mastered pieces.

My goals for the next week:

Liszt Consolation #3 -
1) practice left hand alone in the sections with large jumps. Assure evenness and landing without accent.
2) Accurate recording at slow speed. (measurable goal)

Grieg Melody
1) Record (measurable goal)
2) Increase tempo gradually on 3 over 4 sections. (Goal 60 bpm)
20 Slow accurate practice the entire piece.

Grieg Vase Impromptu
1) Rework fingering on left hand. Test in sections at tempo.
2) Play HT at 1/2 tempo accurately with new fingering.
3) daily isolated work on ornaments

Bach Invention 6
1) Memorize hands separately.

So, next Friday I will see how I did!
_________________________


Working on ABRSM Grade 6
European Piano Party July 4, 2015 in Switzerland!

Top
#2126965 - 08/02/13 01:45 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
casinitaly Offline


Gold Supporter until March 1 2014


Registered: 03/01/10
Posts: 5305
Loc: Italy
That looks like a good program SwissMS.

Glad you've joined us!
_________________________
XVIII-XXXV
Everything's too hard until you make it easy. Follow your teacher's instructions and practice wisely/much, and you'll soon wonder how you ever found it hard ;)-BobPickle
Performance anxiety: make it part of your daily routine and deal with it...Cope! zrtf90

Top
#2126979 - 08/02/13 02:31 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: casinitaly]
Saranoya Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/13
Posts: 632
Loc: Brussels, Belgium
Originally Posted By: casinitaly
That looks like a good program SwissMS.

Glad you've joined us!


Yeah ... seconded!

Will I ever manage to beat you to the punch, Cheryl? wink
_________________________
Beginner with some priors since 9/2012

Currently Playable
Bach 846, 926, 930
Beethoven 27/2 mvt. 1
Burgmüller 100/3, 4, 7, 12, 15, 19, 25
Chopin 72/1
Clementi 36/1
Grieg 12/1, 7
Tchaikovsky 39/9

Future
Burgmüller 109
Bartok Sz 56
Mozart K331

Top
#2126991 - 08/02/13 03:17 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
zrtf90 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/29/12
Posts: 2458
Loc: Ireland (ex England)
Originally Posted By: Saranoya
My plan is to:

1) Practice section 1 ...upping the tempo...

2) Practice section 2 ...at twice performance tempo...

3) Practice section 2 ...at performance tempo...

4) Practice section 3 ...at twice performance tempo...

5) Practice section 3 ...at performance tempo...

6) Practice the entire piece...at performance tempo.

That's six days of focused practice...
It looks very ambitious for someone that wants to play "at recital standard" when they can only play it "though not consistently error-free."

Are the numbers each day's goals or six things you'll be tackling each day?

I set goals and compare results every week so I admire the initiative but my experience suggests it might be better to reduce the size of the section you're working on until you can play it "consistently error-free" and then consider increasing the size rather than the tempo.

HS doesn't have to be twice as fast, just faster (10 per cent faster according to Chang). Longer sections than for HT are appropriate but you may find tempo comes naturally as the frequent and accurate repetition makes the playing easier.

Playing faster is not a skill I need to work on. (That can be misread.) Playing faster than I can read is enough of a goal for then the music must be memorised. That means all I have to do is allow the impulses to work on autopilot while I think ahead to what's coming next. I don't have to deliberately speed up as much as think further ahead. If I try to increase tempo I make mistakes and discover that the piece is hard to play.

If I keep it slow enough that it's easy to play (right) I get it up to speed quicker and without wrong notes. I have to monitor the tempo and keep it in check instead of having to build it. Or, as I once put it, I gradually relinquish restraint. (Thanks, Bob!)

Try comparing results with your next two pieces, one increasing tempo when you get it right, the other increasing section size.
_________________________
Richard

Top
#2126992 - 08/02/13 03:19 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
zrtf90 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/29/12
Posts: 2458
Loc: Ireland (ex England)
Originally Posted By: casinitaly
1) Grieg (OP 12, n3) Watchman’s Song...

First target: ...check pedalling...improve......work on...

Third target: play it well...

2. Fughetta (Pachelbel)
First target...getting the fingering clear...

Second target: Have it all note-right...So I can hear errors...and focus on fixing them.
Good goals, but are they SMART (Specific, Measurable, etc..)?

Let's look at pedalling. I have a big problem here myself. You can't just not use the pedal on a Romantic piece because it's designed to be played with pedal and we use that to move our hands from one position to another without breaking the legato.

When we practise without pedal we must expect it not to sound right and mentally compensate for it rather than declare it as wrong or try to compensate with our hands.

Originally Posted By: casinitaly
Looking at the score I would try pedalling on the quarter notes. I'd try actually playing it to test my theory, but I'd be doing it so slowing it wouldn't sound right anyway.
This is from the Grieg Recital thread. Going so slowly is exactly the way to do it. O, if I had the patience!

Pedalling correctly is a timing issue just like learning to co-ordinate the hands. If you lift too soon you get a break in the sound wall. If you lift too late you blur the harmonies. As long as the suspension is still ringing at the reduced tempo, more likely on an acoustic than a digital, you should hear it and practise timing the change.

You might try keeping the same few measures isolated until you can tick all the essential boxes; right notes, right order then right rhythm, right articulation, right duration, right dynamics, right pedalling rather than moving on and having to come back later to fix an issue. Your second cycle can improve something, smoother phrasing, lighter touch and so on without having to 'fix' errors.

And again (I'm becoming a bore now) (What d'ya mean, becoming? Ed.) keep the sections small until they're easy and the tempo rises of its own accord. Increase the size of the sections rather than increasing the tempo. When you've got a 16 bar section with a few holes in it, when do you fix them? And how keen are you to actually get down and do it? When you're about to join two 2-bar sections it's easy to fix both sections first so that when they do become 16 bars they're accurate, easy to play and often faster.

Check with your teacher before you adopt this approach but I seldom played a piece through for my teacher. The sad fact is they can only remember the worst mistakes or the latest ones but if you insist on playing in small sections they catch them all and none need to be fixed later.
_________________________
Richard

Top
#2127014 - 08/02/13 04:05 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: zrtf90]
Saranoya Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/13
Posts: 632
Loc: Brussels, Belgium
Originally Posted By: zrtf90
The sad fact is they can only remember the worst mistakes or the latest ones but if you insist on playing in small sections they catch them all and none need to be fixed later.


Um ... not necessarily. I have to say, I've rarely caught my teacher *not* hearing a mistake I'd made, and I *always* play entire pieces (or at least, entire sections of pieces) at my lessons, because I still can't read well enough to start smack-dab in the middle of anything. Or, well, I can start in the middle if I'm really forced to, but then it takes me a full minute (and when I have my teacher or anyone else looking over my shoulder, a full two minutes) to find my spot in the score, identify the notes, and figure out where my hands need to go on the keyboard.

Once, I saw my teacher take actual notes (as in pencil on paper notes) as I played, so she could give me accurate feedback once I was done. But mostly, she's just a very good listener.

While my teacher and I both know that I should try to unlearn the unhelpful habit of playing through each section from beginning to end on most of my repeats, I also think that forcing myself to play through an entire piece at most lessons is something that will ultimately help me reach one of the primary goals I had in taking up piano lessons: to get over my performance anxiety.

Going to a lesson, and playing a piece for my teacher from beginning to end, is actually remarkably close, for me, to performing in public, in terms of how nervous I get, and the effects that has on my body. That would no longer be true if I mostly used my lessons playing small sections.

And by the way, it's not like I never play smaller sections. There was one very troublesome spot in measure 5 of BWV 930. Tonight, I got that ironed out by isolating measures 4 through 6, and putting them on sloooooow infinite loop until I couldn't do it wrong anymore. I can now actually get 5 error-free repeats, hands together, of measures 1 through 16.

I will try your 'small sections' method. But it may not work for me. I'm weird that way, in that I usually can't start actually practicing a piece until I have it memorised. And in order to memorise it, I need to 'hear' the overall shape of the piece while I'm playing it. Which means I need to think in entire musical phrases first; not single measures, or pairs of measures. Only once I can do that can I drill down to the really troublesome spots and start isolating them.

Which means that, yes, according to all the 'efficient practice' theories, I'm doing it wrong. I stumble through the initial memorisation phase, and only once I have a piece memorised do I go back to the score, in order to drill down to smaller sections and iron the kinks out. But really, it seems to be the only method that's ever worked for me, so far.

Like I said: I'm weird that way.

Thanks for your insightful contributions, though. I really appreciate that. I do wink.
_________________________
Beginner with some priors since 9/2012

Currently Playable
Bach 846, 926, 930
Beethoven 27/2 mvt. 1
Burgmüller 100/3, 4, 7, 12, 15, 19, 25
Chopin 72/1
Clementi 36/1
Grieg 12/1, 7
Tchaikovsky 39/9

Future
Burgmüller 109
Bartok Sz 56
Mozart K331

Top
#2127031 - 08/02/13 04:53 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
zrtf90 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/29/12
Posts: 2458
Loc: Ireland (ex England)
If your way works for you and you've thought it through there's no point changing it. Seek change when it's not working.

You're not doing it wrong, efficiency or other measures aside, if it works for you. You have an ultimate goal, overcoming performance anxiety, and your system is geared to that. You can't get more efficient than that.

And memorising first is far more efficient than any amount of practical strategy at the keyboard. The point of working on single measures is to overcome the inability to memorise a long phrase. You don't seem to have this deficiency.

You seem to have a very conscientious listener for a teacher, too.

I'm glad it's all going well for you. I'm also looking forward to hearing you play the G minor prelude so stop reading my verbiage and get to practising! smile
_________________________
Richard

Top
#2127068 - 08/02/13 06:19 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: zrtf90]
casinitaly Offline


Gold Supporter until March 1 2014


Registered: 03/01/10
Posts: 5305
Loc: Italy
Thanks for your detailed and thoughtful reply Richard, I do appreciate it very much!

You point about the goals being "smart" is a good one. In fact I was thinking of that as I wrote the post- I realized that the way I'd written them down here really wasn't "specific, measurable, etc" but I do have more detail in my head compared to what I wrote here. Perhaps I should have taken more time to write it all out.


1) Grieg (OP 12, n3) Watchman’s Song...

With regards to the pedalling - I have been using the pedal in this piece but I am finding that while I'm playing I don't always have the ability to listen as well as I would like.

In part that is because I am still "working" on this piece. (In older, more familiar pieces that are very comfortable, I find it much easier to listen)

If I record myself, I can detach from the reading and playing and just evaluate - I have learned that's important for me. I have noticed (more than once!) that I can be convinced that I am doing fairly well on a piece, yet when I listen to my recording I really hear the hesitations, weak points and sloppy pedalling.

I have 2 great pieces with pedalling right now - the Grieg and the Rebikov - both requiring very different technique.


I believe I do understand what you are saying about not compensating with the hands. For the last few months I have been trying to get the pedalling in as soon as I have run through a piece once or twice to get the feel of it, trying to avoid a delay in adding that dimension. It isn't easy for me - I am just getting used to actually enjoying the "bigger sound" that pedalling produces!

You quoted me:
Originally Posted By: Richard
Originally Posted By: casinitaly
Looking at the score I would try pedalling on the quarter notes. I'd try actually playing it to test my theory, but I'd be doing it so slowing it wouldn't sound right anyway.
This is from the Grieg Recital thread. Going so slowly is exactly the way to do it. O, if I had the patience!


I am developing the patience to play more slowly (not as slowly as I should, but getting better at it) - but in the case above I fear that I'd be going so slowly that the first pedalled note would die out before I managed to play the rest of the measure!


Originally Posted By: Richard
Pedalling correctly is a timing issue just like learning to co-ordinate the hands. If you lift too soon you get a break in the sound wall. If you lift too late you blur the harmonies. As long as the suspension is still ringing at the reduced tempo, more likely on an acoustic than a digital, you should hear it and practise timing the change.

You might try keeping the same few measures isolated until you can tick all the essential boxes; right notes, right order then right rhythm, right articulation, right duration, right dynamics, right pedalling rather than moving on and having to come back later to fix an issue. Your second cycle can improve something, smoother phrasing, lighter touch and so on without having to 'fix' errors.


This is excellent advice!

I have been working (as you suggested) on smaller sections. Today I was working on just 4 measures of the Fughetta - I couldn't coordinate my fingers and the timing on the notes. I played them over and over, slowly, slowly and more slowly!

I think I've got it now (we'll see how the notes flow tomorrow!)

My teacher does like me to work on small sections - and he does encourage me to play very slowly but accurately. Once I can actually play the notes we work on refinements.

I often play a full piece for my teacher, and he's quite amazing at spotting errors. But let's also keep in mind that my pieces to date have been no more than 2 minutes long - and many are even less. That's just starting to change so maybe in the future I won't be playing whole pieces.


I think I will take some time tomorrow to make a chart of my goals / practice time & checklist. It isn't something I would normally have the patience to do - but I think that for this project it will be helpful.
_________________________
XVIII-XXXV
Everything's too hard until you make it easy. Follow your teacher's instructions and practice wisely/much, and you'll soon wonder how you ever found it hard ;)-BobPickle
Performance anxiety: make it part of your daily routine and deal with it...Cope! zrtf90

Top
#2127069 - 08/02/13 06:20 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
casinitaly Offline


Gold Supporter until March 1 2014


Registered: 03/01/10
Posts: 5305
Loc: Italy
Originally Posted By: Saranoya
Originally Posted By: casinitaly
That looks like a good program SwissMS.

Glad you've joined us!


Yeah ... seconded!

Will I ever manage to beat you to the punch, Cheryl? wink


We'll see smile
_________________________
XVIII-XXXV
Everything's too hard until you make it easy. Follow your teacher's instructions and practice wisely/much, and you'll soon wonder how you ever found it hard ;)-BobPickle
Performance anxiety: make it part of your daily routine and deal with it...Cope! zrtf90

Top
#2127119 - 08/02/13 07:47 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
rnaple Offline

Silver Supporter until April 24 2014


Registered: 12/23/10
Posts: 2107
Loc: Rocky Mountains
If a person fails at FOYD.
Do they then go to the DOYD thread? Dead On Your Doorstep.
Especially if they've done MOYD. Like FOYD. The natural progression is to DOYD.
DOYD is the thread for all the whining excuses. smile


Seriously.... I think FOYD is a good idea. If I ever get focused.

EDIT: I wanted to add. There is a big difference between whining excuses and being brutally honest in finding fault. I've run into this before. Been accused of just not being this or that. When the reality was that person didn't know how. I had to learn for myself. Be honest. Also find a source and found a teacher who knew better. Had answers as to why this or that. I overcame. I will overcome with piano. I have a good teacher.

Right now I don't think anything I could contribute to this thread would be interesting to anyone. My focus, my problem is simple. Everything I work on has the same focus. Overcoming my autonomic mind not wanting to accept training. Not wanting to change, develop, sophisticate. It rebels in interfering with most of my mind. The answer is to just keep at the practice. Be patient, don't stop.


Edited by rnaple (08/03/13 03:27 AM)
_________________________
Ron
Your brain is a sponge. Keep it wet. Mary Gae George
The focus of your personal practice is discipline. Not numbers. Scott Sonnon

Top
#2127202 - 08/02/13 10:54 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
AimeeO Offline

Silver Supporter until Jan 04 2013


Registered: 05/20/10
Posts: 803
Loc: New Orleans
I think this is a great idea!
I'm in, but will probably post my FOYD Wednesday.
Looking forward to it!!

Top
#2127293 - 08/03/13 02:55 AM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
Anne H Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 06/02/13
Posts: 156
Loc: New Orleans
I love this idea. I definitely need help focusing.

Each day this week I want to:
1) Try three takes of my Grieg piece for the recital.
2 Work on a Bach invention for 20 minutes.
3) Spend 20 minutes on Golliwog's Cakewalk.
4) Spend 20 minutes on my Rachmaninoff prelude.
5) Play something for fun for 20 minutes.


Edited by Anne H (08/03/13 02:58 AM)
_________________________
Works in Progress:
Rachmaninoff: Prelude Op 23 No 4
Howl’s Moving Castle
Faure - Nocturne Op 36/4


Top
#2127295 - 08/03/13 03:19 AM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: rnaple]
Saranoya Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/13
Posts: 632
Loc: Brussels, Belgium
Originally Posted By: rnaple
If a person fails at FOYD ...


I know you're joking. And thanks, I laughed out loud at that. But in all seriousness, unless one gives up on it entirely, I don't think there is such a thing as 'failing' at FOYD.

Sure, sometimes we won't reach our stated goals. To call that a failure at FOYD, however, would be missing the point.

The important thing is, when we miss our targets, to ask ourselves *why* we missed them, and report back. Reporting back will force us to clearly articulate what happened, and how and why it happened. Knowing these things is the first and most important step towards fixing the problem -- whatever the problem may be.

So to my mind, anyone who reports back to this thread on a regular basis -- whether they do it daily, weekly, bi-weekly, monthly, or even just once or twice a year -- is successfully applying the concept of FOYD. We hope it will allow them to make steady progress along the way, but whether or not they actually do so is not the most important thing. The most important thing is to keep trying something new, as long as the old doesn't work.

Just my two cents. As always, YMMV.
_________________________
Beginner with some priors since 9/2012

Currently Playable
Bach 846, 926, 930
Beethoven 27/2 mvt. 1
Burgmüller 100/3, 4, 7, 12, 15, 19, 25
Chopin 72/1
Clementi 36/1
Grieg 12/1, 7
Tchaikovsky 39/9

Future
Burgmüller 109
Bartok Sz 56
Mozart K331

Top
#2127310 - 08/03/13 04:19 AM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
sinophilia Offline

Gold Supporter until Sept. 05 2014


Registered: 06/26/12
Posts: 1022
Loc: Italy
This is great, I'm in! Only problem is, my work routine changes so much from one week to the next that I never know how much time and energy I will be able to devote to the piano.

Anyway, these are my goals for the end of next week:

1. Bach's Minuet in G minor from BWV 822: I've been working on it for one week and can now play it HT very slowly; I need to bring this to about 90 bpm (and then to 120, but this will take a few more days). It's tricky because it's the same as the one I've already learnt but with treble and bass inverted (how clever!), so fingering and hand movements are completely different. And the melody is now in the bass, so LH needs to be louder than the RH.

2. Stravinsky's Les Cinq Doigts n. 2: I'm learning one of these 8 pieces each week, as "quick studies" (as Graham Fitch calls them) to improve my reading and learning speed. I don't want to record this, I'll just practice the tricky parts. This one is quite fast and has 16th notes so it'll be good for my very slow fingers.

3. Clementi's Arietta in C: it's a 1-page piece that I started a few days ago. My goal with this one is to be able to record it at about 100 bpm by the end of the week. It's very basic but there's a lot of dynamic changes and gracefulness still missing from my playing.

These are my short-term pieces; then there is a long-term one that I'm not going to reveal just yet, that might be ready for the November recital (or not! It's very challenging). And then there's my usual sight-reading practice. I finished Hannah Smith's book two days ago and now I need to sort out the other material I have and see how to move on from there.
_________________________
Diana & Wally - Yamaha W110BW
Martha Argerich... is an incarnation of the artistic metaphor of the "eternal feminine" that draws us upward. (Sergio Sablich)

Top
#2127315 - 08/03/13 04:39 AM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
casinitaly Offline


Gold Supporter until March 1 2014


Registered: 03/01/10
Posts: 5305
Loc: Italy
Well, this thread is growing!

I find it very interesting to see the details on what everyone is working on and have some insights into what you are all aiming for!

And Ron..... you made me laugh!
My PW life has become an acronym.... MOYD, AOTW, FOYD....LOL!
_________________________
XVIII-XXXV
Everything's too hard until you make it easy. Follow your teacher's instructions and practice wisely/much, and you'll soon wonder how you ever found it hard ;)-BobPickle
Performance anxiety: make it part of your daily routine and deal with it...Cope! zrtf90

Top
#2127323 - 08/03/13 05:23 AM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
rnaple Offline

Silver Supporter until April 24 2014


Registered: 12/23/10
Posts: 2107
Loc: Rocky Mountains
Originally Posted By: Saranoya

So to my mind, anyone who reports back to this thread on a regular basis -- whether they do it daily, weekly, bi-weekly, monthly, or even just once or twice a year -- is successfully applying the concept of FOYD. We hope it will allow them to make steady progress along the way, but whether or not they actually do so is not the most important thing. The most important thing is to keep trying something new, as long as the old doesn't work...


Thank you for a little more focus on the focus thread. smile
I will post but for longer term. My short term is rather boring.
Just keeping at it is bringing success. Have a little piece; Lavender's Blue that isn't easy to play musically. Easy to parrot. Keep going back to it. It is starting to sound like music. Like it should. The autonomic mind is giving in. Slowly...

I think I can speed this process up by focusing more on my exercise and quit smoking little cigars. The little cigars are helping my autonomic mind be rebellious. Instead of it obeying my heart.

Goals...
By the first of the year to have Schindler's List as a complete beautiful work of art. Something played as well as anyone can play it. Can do small parts that well. Both hands are a big problem right now.

By the first of the year to have another piece: Somewhere in Time. Studying it. What I hear is something closer to the original of Panganini (hope I spelled that right). Want to impov it. I only want to be playing the movie version and have an understanding and working toward an impov of my own.

By the first of the year. Have actually learned what Alfred's One has to teach. We have come to a slow progression in this book because we're trying to actually get it down, right. It's a well written book. We're paying attention to what the book is trying to teach. My autonomic mind/nervous system is slowly training. Success on a piece is when it becomes music. Perfect copy is unacceptable to me. I'm lucky with my teacher. She will focus on the one passage that gets repeated...that is what the piece is trying to teach me.

By the first of the year. Have a much better understanding of theory and reading music. When I mentioned Somewhere in Time to my teacher. She said: Hit your theory books.

Sometime by the first of the year. Having moved on to a more complex teaching system which includes three books. One is a workbook on theory. This is a system my teacher has. We're in no hurry to move on to it.


I congratulate you all who can focus goals in short term. I can't be so focused yet. Myself, am being held up by training my autonomic/nervous system to actually do what I want it to do.
Good part is my hands are becoming much more complex than they used to be.
_________________________
Ron
Your brain is a sponge. Keep it wet. Mary Gae George
The focus of your personal practice is discipline. Not numbers. Scott Sonnon

Top
#2127344 - 08/03/13 06:58 AM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
casinitaly Offline


Gold Supporter until March 1 2014


Registered: 03/01/10
Posts: 5305
Loc: Italy
Ron it is interesting because I find that I think it is great you have long term objective- I can't see my way that far ahead. I think it is something I will have to get some help on. I know my teacher wants me to start working on longer pieces so perhaps when that happens I will start being brave enough to plan farther ahead. At the moment it all seems too vast and daunting.

Of course I have my "dream pieces" -and some which are within my grasp over the next year!!! smile but for my goals over this coming year... I'm very vague on what I hope/expect to be able to do.

However, I feel my having joined in this discussion is already getting me more set in a study pattern, which is exactly what I needed for this teacherless summer!!!

This morning I had lovely practice session - though I was a bit sad to discover that my slow work on the Fughetta had not held as well as I had hoped. I did more work on that. I'm also working on starting it at MANY different places -and struggling to resist playing it from the beginning. I know the beginning, I don't need to "study" that right now!!!
smile

I've made my "to do" list and my chart of mini steps to check off as per Richard's suggestion.

I feel pleasantly on-track!
_________________________
XVIII-XXXV
Everything's too hard until you make it easy. Follow your teacher's instructions and practice wisely/much, and you'll soon wonder how you ever found it hard ;)-BobPickle
Performance anxiety: make it part of your daily routine and deal with it...Cope! zrtf90

Top
#2127354 - 08/03/13 08:05 AM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: sinophilia]
malkin Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/18/09
Posts: 2754
Loc: *sigh* Salt Lake City
Originally Posted By: sinophilia

2. Stravinsky's Les Cinq Doigts n. 2: I'm learning one of these 8 pieces each week, as "quick studies" (as Graham Fitch calls them) to improve my reading and learning speed. I don't want to record this, I'll just practice the tricky parts. This one is quite fast and has 16th notes so it'll be good for my very slow fingers.


Number 2 is my favorite so far!
My teacher has suggested that I play all of them-perform all of them--so I am working on keeping them up as well as learning the new ones. Initially we thought this would be a task for the summer, but I now think it will extend well into the summer for the southern hemisphere.
_________________________
A good student is one who makes the teacher feel like a good teacher.

Top
#2127366 - 08/03/13 09:09 AM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: malkin]
sinophilia Offline

Gold Supporter until Sept. 05 2014


Registered: 06/26/12
Posts: 1022
Loc: Italy
Originally Posted By: malkin
...but I now think it will extend well into the summer for the southern hemisphere.


LOL! Indeed, they are not as easy as they look... plenty of tricky bars, and dissonances.
_________________________
Diana & Wally - Yamaha W110BW
Martha Argerich... is an incarnation of the artistic metaphor of the "eternal feminine" that draws us upward. (Sergio Sablich)

Top
#2127427 - 08/03/13 11:56 AM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: sinophilia]
SwissMS Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/11
Posts: 853
Loc: Switzerland
This thread is coming together. It is interesting to see what everyone is working on, and how they are approaching their practice. I think we will all learn from each other, and improve our practice because of it.

Casinitaly, I have played the Rebikov piece you are working on. It is beautiful! Have fun with it.
_________________________


Working on ABRSM Grade 6
European Piano Party July 4, 2015 in Switzerland!

Top
#2127462 - 08/03/13 01:05 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: SwissMS]
casinitaly Offline


Gold Supporter until March 1 2014


Registered: 03/01/10
Posts: 5305
Loc: Italy
Originally Posted By: SwissMS
This thread is coming together. It is interesting to see what everyone is working on, and how they are approaching their practice. I think we will all learn from each other, and improve our practice because of it.

Casinitaly, I have played the Rebikov piece you are working on. It is beautiful! Have fun with it.


I always like to know that someone else has played a piece I'm working on - it makes me feel even more connected to the group.
This isn't the first piece you've worked on before I have ... I guess I'm following in your footsteps !
_________________________
XVIII-XXXV
Everything's too hard until you make it easy. Follow your teacher's instructions and practice wisely/much, and you'll soon wonder how you ever found it hard ;)-BobPickle
Performance anxiety: make it part of your daily routine and deal with it...Cope! zrtf90

Top
#2127486 - 08/03/13 02:08 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
PianoStudent88 Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/16/11
Posts: 3206
Loc: Maine
Originally Posted By: casinitaly
though I was a bit sad to discover that my slow work on the Fughetta had not held as well as I had hoped.

The practice method I am following (dare I say Bernhard on this thread?) gives complete permission for everything you have mastered at the end of one practice session to be forgotten by the beginning of the next session. This is normal. You just repeat the same steps to bring it back up to the same place it was yesterday. Do this every day. You should find that it is faster as the days go by each day to bring it back up to snuff. Then one day you'll be able to play it first thing the same way you played it yesterday, and then you know that it is learned.

I find this very freeing. Truth in advertising: I haven't been doing this long enough (only a few days) to see it borne out yet in my own practicing. But it seems like an insightful and helpful idea.
_________________________
Ebaug(maj7)

Top
#2127496 - 08/03/13 02:35 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
jotur Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 5659
Loc: Santa Fe, NM
I just finished a focused practice session, and for me that *is* the goal. I tend to be scattered, and focusing for long is difficult.

I have goals that are as broad as piece-orientation - I'm always looking to expand my repertoire so I don't bore the seniors to death. And I have those laid out in a monthly practice schedule. I have new material, developing material, material almost ready for performance, repertoire, experimentation pieces. But I don't do detailed for each day. That kind of schedule has never worked for me.

But I do try to be focused every time I sit down at the piano.

Today I did a quick review of the introduction and verse of a piece I'm working on. That involved playing it slowly and noticing/being aware/understanding the chord changes, putting them in context of both the specific chords and their place within the key - whether I was using a I-IV-V or a ii(II)-V-I as an example. I noticed where I didn't quite remember what was next or how it went, and then chunked a couple of 2-measure pieces, slowly again.

I went over the 4 measures of the chorus that I had learned yesterday, with the same procedure, and then put all of it together a couple of times, a little up-tempo, and musical.

The next 2 measures were a repeat, so I added the 2 measures after that. Again, I focus on the chord progressions, the phrasing, etc. I always try to make it music from the beginning, even in its very small chunks.

And lastly, I played everything I've learned so far on that piece - kind of my reward.

That was a half-hour. I'll try to get in 3 or 4 more sessions today, on different pieces, and doing different kinds of things. I have several dance tunes I've only recently gotten up to speed, so I'll reinforce those. I have several pieces I've learned by ear and I'm experimenting with different accompaniments, variations, and key signatures.

In dance tunes it is imperative that I hear them in phrases, and as a story, because otherwise at tempo they're just a flurry of notes that I forget, and there's never a solid tempo or pulse. I learn the phrases/story when I'm playing slowly - I hear it differently at different times. But it helps immensely in playing at speed to be able to hear the pick-up notes, the staccatoes and legatos, the little breathing spaces, and to be able to vary those to some extent.

So at any rate, detailing out a day or week at a time would drive me crazy laugh I have way too much on my monthly schedule to get to all of it every day, so that gives me some variety in my choices, and some leeway to attend to whatever has grabbed me recently, while still approaching a set of overall goals.

I find that reading others' approaches is inspiring and fascinating. Thanks to all of you who post these threads!

Cathy

P.S. I haven't always practised this exact way, tho some of it has been there from the very beginning. I keep learning.


Edited by jotur (08/03/13 02:44 PM)

Top
#2127532 - 08/03/13 04:08 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
aTallGuyNH Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/22/12
Posts: 509
Despite being only just a wee bit past one day old...

1) I absolutely love this thread.

2) I'm pretty sure that in a couple years' time this will enter into the pantheon of top threads such as AOTW, RST, the Chopin thread, etc.

3) I'm already having trouble keeping up! Arghhh!!!

Richard -- You are not a bore, nor a boor, so I hope you'll continue to push, prod, and critique whenever you get the urge. I've always found your insights to be extremely valuable. I'm hoping this will be a thread where critical thinking will be embraced, and so far it certainly looks that way.

I'll have to mull over a particular goal to post. I suffer from the same scheduling limitations as sinophilia, and the reading limitations as Sara that lead to the "memorize first, then practice Catch-22", so it's very tough to be very specific re: time frames.

Thanks so much Sara and Cheryl for dreaming this up!
_________________________
"...when you do practice properly, it seems to take no time at all. Just do it right five times or so, and then stop." -- JimF

Working on: my aversion to practicing in front of my wife

1978 Vose & Sons spinet "Rufus"
1914 Huntington upright "Mabel"

XXIX-XXXII

Top
#2127541 - 08/03/13 04:40 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
dynamobt Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/07/13
Posts: 739
Loc: NH
I'm with Tallguy in having trouble keeping up. In my defense, I have really been putting the screws to my Quarterly Recital submission. Now that, that's done, I hope I can catch up and take part. My practice could use better focus. I'm slightly afraid of setting out specific goals with a timeframe to reach them. But, maybe that's what's wrong with my practice. Instead of just "working hard" I need to work specifically towards something quite specific even if it has to be something small.

I really applaud people taking part in FOYD!!
_________________________
1918 Mason & Hamlin BB





Top
#2127544 - 08/03/13 04:48 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: dynamobt]
aTallGuyNH Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/22/12
Posts: 509
Originally Posted By: dynamobt
I'm with Tallguy in having trouble keeping up. In my defense, I have really been putting the screws to my Quarterly Recital submission. Now that, that's done, I hope I can catch up and take part. My practice could use better focus. I'm slightly afraid of setting out specific goals with a timeframe to reach them. But, maybe that's what's wrong with my practice. Instead of just "working hard" I need to work specifically towards something quite specific even if it has to be something small.

I really applaud people taking part in FOYD!!

I'm with you... very small is what I was thinking, such as having a goal that is essentially only about focus, not about aptitude at all. Mine will likely be of the form "practice only measures x through y, then only do full run through at end of practice session".

Basically, I need to focus on focusing. smile
_________________________
"...when you do practice properly, it seems to take no time at all. Just do it right five times or so, and then stop." -- JimF

Working on: my aversion to practicing in front of my wife

1978 Vose & Sons spinet "Rufus"
1914 Huntington upright "Mabel"

XXIX-XXXII

Top
#2127580 - 08/03/13 06:07 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
casinitaly Offline


Gold Supporter until March 1 2014


Registered: 03/01/10
Posts: 5305
Loc: Italy
PianoStudent- thanks for that encouragement. I did find that getting it back today went faster than trying to get it yesterday - so maybe tomorrow will be even better. We shall see smile


Cathy/Jotur -- I have trouble focusing for any length of time on one thing too - so having several pieces on the go is very good for me. Sounds like you have a lot more on the go than I do, but the idea is the same. As for structured planning-- to be honest, this is the first time I've tried it. First time I've EVER written down a plan. I really don't know if I'll keep it up once I'm back to lessons or not - I guess it will depend on how well it works out over the next six weeks!

TallGuy - I would suggest that you, and anyone else who has trouble reading, work on that skill. It can be very liberating- and gives you access to so much more music so much more quickly! Inlanding once suggested to me that I try sight reading a new piece every day (not worrying too much about the tempo, just getting the notes right) - and to write the date on the piece -- then a few months later, try that piece again. Given that I've got a good stack of music this is not very difficult to do - start with stuff that is really really basic - dead simple, and take your time with it. If you dedicate even just 10 minutes a day to it I bet you see an significant improvement within a month!

Dynambot - you're right - small focus is important. My focus today was small groups of 2 measures. The rest of the piece is easy but these little sets are driving me mad. Small focus on them will get me over the hump, I'm sure of it.


And ... just for the record... I don't think it will be possible for anyone to keep up with making replies to each and every post - even with the best of intentions. smile
This thread has already gathered a lot of momentum!

I think it will make for very interesting - and educational! - reading.
_________________________
XVIII-XXXV
Everything's too hard until you make it easy. Follow your teacher's instructions and practice wisely/much, and you'll soon wonder how you ever found it hard ;)-BobPickle
Performance anxiety: make it part of your daily routine and deal with it...Cope! zrtf90

Top
#2127621 - 08/03/13 07:15 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: casinitaly]
rnaple Offline

Silver Supporter until April 24 2014


Registered: 12/23/10
Posts: 2107
Loc: Rocky Mountains
Originally Posted By: casinitaly
... Inlanding once suggested to me that I try sight reading a new piece every day (not worrying too much about the tempo, just getting the notes right) - and to write the date on the piece -- then a few months later, try that piece again.


Now that's a gem of a tip.
_________________________
Ron
Your brain is a sponge. Keep it wet. Mary Gae George
The focus of your personal practice is discipline. Not numbers. Scott Sonnon

Top
#2127890 - 08/04/13 10:19 AM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
CarlosCC Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/06/09
Posts: 1475
Loc: Lisbon, Portugal
Originally Posted By: Saranoya
OK, so ... casinitaly and I were talking, recently, about how difficult it is to really focus on consistent practice over the summer, when there's no weekly piano lesson perpetually looming on the horizon, for which one must always have something more or less presentable prepared.


I like the idea. Not having someone giving weekly homework is part of my routine... smile
I can share my FOYD but I don't know if I can do it weekly. I've some really "busy" weeks which don't let me do the piano related work as I wished. In addition, I usually share my FOYD in my signature in the "Focused on" line.

So, for the first time in FYOD thread, I'm realy focused on:
- Participation in the ABF Recital #31: till 14 August
. . . . 1st QuickWin: decode the final parts of "Life"
. . . . 2nd QuickWin: Practice "Life" to get a decent sound
. . . . 3rd QuickWin: tackle the "red dot"
. . . . 4rd QuickWin: submit piece to ABF Recital

- After 15 August: listen and comment ABF Recital #31


_________________________

Youtube channel
Box.com MP3 records

Self-taught since 12/2009
Don't play what's there, play what's not there.

Top
#2127906 - 08/04/13 11:26 AM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
zrtf90 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/29/12
Posts: 2458
Loc: Ireland (ex England)
Originally Posted By: dynamobt
I'm slightly afraid of setting out specific goals with a timeframe to reach them.
I'm with you on the time limited goals. One of the problems is that we don't (always) have deadlines to meet. Another is that, as we all keep saying, 'we get there when we get there' or 'it's the journey not the destination'. On the other hand we don't want to be playing the same few measures everyday without progress.

As our experience setting goals increases so does our ability to recognise what we can do. One approach is to spend a certain amount of time on one piece each day. We start by learning the first few measures then as we learn the next few we append them onto what we already know. This is the more common approach and often results in the first part of the piece being better known than the end and the performance deteriorates as we play.

Another way is spend the time on a limited number of measures and drop them when we get them until we've been through the whole piece in, say, four bar sections. On our second run through we have already learnt, even if forgotten, the early measures and they WILL return very quickly so for the second pass through the piece we can do six or eight bar sections in the same time as we did four. If we need another pass we can do twelve to sixteen bar sections and soon we can do the whole thing.

There is still the option of running through page by page hands separately to keep the continuity going or reserving the weekends to review our progress so far.

This needs enough experience to trust that you will remember what you've done so far, even if you leave it a few weeks, or re-learn it so much faster. If you've taken a section you can memorise in a few plays and work it for ten minutes or more putting hands together and you do that same section Mon-Fri you really will learn it again rapidly in a few weeks time even without reviewing it at the weekends. You may even find you can play it faster and easier without having practised it for a week or two.

So we set ourselves a goal of so many measures that we'll practise each day of the coming week and keep them until they're done. If the goal is reviewed weekly it soon becomes apparent if you're still on the same few bars for several weeks and it may be time to move on before that section is finished and revisit it before the second pass. Maybe the section is too long or the technical problem needs an alternative solution. There's still a time factor without it becoming a deadline.
_________________________
Richard

Top
#2127910 - 08/04/13 11:33 AM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
zrtf90 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/29/12
Posts: 2458
Loc: Ireland (ex England)
Originally Posted By: aTallGuyNH
Mine will likely be of the form "practice only measures x through y, then only do full run through at end of practice session".

Basically, I need to focus on focusing.
Do the full run through at the start and the small bit last! (See Chang on Post Practise Improvement)

Once you start writing goals you start becoming goal oriented and the focus may well shift automatically.

Do full run throughs of pieces you've learned already and can play. Don't do full run throughs of pieces you're learning. You can do a review of what's been done so far but then only focus on the current days bit and move on to another piece when that's done or another section. I know not everyone here will find this useful advice smile
_____________________________

I'm working on Grieg's Trolltog, 54/3, for the upcoming Grieg recital. This is my work for the coming week. I'm under a time constraint because of the five week deadline. I wouldn't normally do so much on one piece but I picked this up only a week ago (though I've been targetting it for some time - since this thread).


RH M2-29; LH M11-14; LH M21-30; RH M40-47; LH M40-47

These are all memorised already. I'm working on increased facility playing at 80, 100, 120 then back to 100 bpm until they're automatic and I play without thinking too much. I can hit these speeds now but 120 is an effort where the sections transition - it's that thinking ahead thing. I'm targeting 132 bpm (HT) but I doubt I'll reach that for the recording given the time. I'd be thrilled to hit 120 HT by September.

HT from memory: M1-10; M17-18; M40-47; M48-55
HT from the score: M11-14; M21-30; M117-120

These are memorised HS but I still use the score for HT on some passages. These are being done at 60 bpm for the quaver (= 30 bpm, a quarter of HS tempo) until they're automatic. I set the pulse with the metronome then turn it off, I don't leave it ticking. If I didn't do this I'd get too fast too soon. At this stage I can judge 60 or 120 bpm to within a few beats just using my foot.

The cantabile section, M71-86 and M97-112, I can play from the score and may well have the page in front of me when I record. M87-96 and M113-123 are too fast for me to read so I'll have to memorise those. I'm just doing M117-120 this week to get the timing in the fingers.

I'm currently working on three other Grieg pieces, I've just finished and posted my ABF Recital piece, (spent a lot of time on the text 'cause I know Cheryl likes to read it smile ), and am about to start on November's entry. I also have to keep up my Bach, Scarlatti and sonata work. I usually settle for 5 - 15 minutes per piece per day. Trolltog is exceptional.

At present I have no schedule for a first full run through.
Maybe Sept 9 smile
_________________________
Richard

Top
#2127949 - 08/04/13 01:30 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
casinitaly Offline


Gold Supporter until March 1 2014


Registered: 03/01/10
Posts: 5305
Loc: Italy
Dynambot and Richard -- I hear you on goals with deadlines. Of course we choose to take them on for recitals - live or recorded smile - but generally I don't set them for myself.

The reason for the self-imposed deadlines I posted way back at the top of the page was simply because I have do get my homework projects into some sort of shape and this seems to be the only way for my brain to get down to it. Until making that list I was still waffling on WHICH pieces I was going to do for my homework. (In case anyone is wondering, my Beethoven Sonatina in G has been put on the shelf - I'd started it about 2 years ago with my first teacher, had to stop because I injured my arm (tension stress) and the idea had been to work on it over the summer. However,.. I just can't bring myself to tackle it on my own. What a weenie I am, I want my teacher to hold my hand as I work through it ! )

Richard your suggestions for approaches on how to tackle pieces hits home. I fight the temptation to go back to the beginning (because I know it, it is easier, it is fun to play ....) and to force myself to start at different spots in the piece.
With the Fughetta in particular, I'm finding this helpful.


I had a look at your 54/3 Troldtag- March of the Trolls, Zug der Zwege! Without counting I could tell immediately which measures were 11-17. Mamma mia! That's a challenge!

You piqued my curiosity about your recital piece so I went to check out what you submitted. smile I don't know much about or from Liszt - so your notes will indeed be greatly appreciated and enjoyed! smile

I have done my first recording of Watchman's Song (Grieg Op12 N3)
I realized I had 2 pretty serious weak spots. One I was aware of, the other I thought I'd had under control, but with performance jitters I had a brain blank-out on what to do...so clearly there's more work to do there. I also heard myself messing up with the pedal. Part of that was clear to me as I was playing but not all of it. In a way that's good because at least only part of it was a surprise.

So... back to focus study on the wobbly bits !

The Fughetta came together a bit better this morning so I'm inclined to be optimistic with regards to PianotStudent88's take on how repetitions pan out over a period of time.

Not sure how much music is going to happen tomorrow as I'm heading out at 8.30am to go cycling - We're heading up to a small lake just north of here and planning to cycle around it (just under 30 Km). I know I'll play when I get home but who knows how much or how effective it will be.

_________________________
XVIII-XXXV
Everything's too hard until you make it easy. Follow your teacher's instructions and practice wisely/much, and you'll soon wonder how you ever found it hard ;)-BobPickle
Performance anxiety: make it part of your daily routine and deal with it...Cope! zrtf90

Top
#2127963 - 08/04/13 02:09 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
zrtf90 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/29/12
Posts: 2458
Loc: Ireland (ex England)
Originally Posted By: casinitaly
I hear you on goals with deadlines...but generally I don't set them for myself.
Thre's nothing wrong with setting time limits as long as it doesn't add unnecessary pressure. Set them by all means but be flexible rather distraught if you don't meet them.

Originally Posted By: casinitaly
I had a look at your 54/3 Troldtag- March of the Trolls, Zug der Zwege! Without counting I could tell immediately which measures were 11-17. Mamma mia! That's a challenge!
It looks harder than it is, Cheryl. The RH notes are just shaping the hand and rolling it (rather like the passages in your own Grieg piece). The difficulty with hands combined is the one note step down each half bar in RH against the uneven LH changes, which are also easy HS.

Originally Posted By: casinitaly
I don't know much about or from Liszt
Oh, he was a famous pianist back in the 1800's! laugh

Originally Posted By: casinitaly
So... back to focus study on the wobbly bits !
...
I'm heading out at 8.30am to go cycling...just under 30 Km...

I think that should take care of the wobbly bits!
ROFL!
_________________________
Richard

Top
#2127971 - 08/04/13 02:29 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: zrtf90]
SwissMS Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/11
Posts: 853
Loc: Switzerland
Originally Posted By: zrtf90
Originally Posted By: dynamobt
I'm slightly afraid of setting out specific goals with a timeframe to reach them.
I'm with you on the time limited goals. One of the problems is that we don't (always) have deadlines to meet. Another is that, as we all keep saying, 'we get there when we get there' or 'it's the journey not the destination'. On the other hand we don't want to be playing the same few measures everyday without progress...


I think it depends on what motivates a person. There is always the danger of setting goals that are too ambitious and adding undue pressure on yourself. On the other hand, for me, I think if achievable weekly goals are set, then progress is more likely to occur. The goals give my practice direction and focus.

Part of the process is learning what is achievable. The feedback loop is to assess progress at the end of a week, and see if I succeeded. If the goals were too ambitious, I set more modest goals for the next week. I also like having longer term goals that have deadlines. For me, that means knowing what I am planning to have finished to present in recital or the next two ABF recitals. It is sort of like having a road map of where I am planning on going. I guess I am a very goal oriented person, and obviously not everyone likes to work this way.
_________________________


Working on ABRSM Grade 6
European Piano Party July 4, 2015 in Switzerland!

Top
#2127976 - 08/04/13 02:41 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: SwissMS]
rnaple Offline

Silver Supporter until April 24 2014


Registered: 12/23/10
Posts: 2107
Loc: Rocky Mountains
Originally Posted By: SwissMS
It is sort of like having a road map of where I am planning on going.


This is precisely what this thread is about.
It's about getting focus on what we're doing.
When we aren't focused. We don't do it. Forget about this or that. Don't focus on getting a particular part right.
It's about planning. Which helps many of us to do what we want to do.

It isn't about setting a bar and competing with ourselves to see if we can obtain that or raise the bar.
There is no danger in anything here.
You cannot fail this thread.
You can only fail to try.
_________________________
Ron
Your brain is a sponge. Keep it wet. Mary Gae George
The focus of your personal practice is discipline. Not numbers. Scott Sonnon

Top
#2128046 - 08/04/13 05:23 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
casinitaly Offline


Gold Supporter until March 1 2014


Registered: 03/01/10
Posts: 5305
Loc: Italy
Ron's right - we can only fail to try.

SwissMS - your point about having weekly goals - and testing to see if you've really made them reasonable - is a good one.

When I have my lessons I have this sort of weekly target. To a large extent the bar is set by my teacher. I may end up doing more, or if work and life get in the way.. a bit less.

I think this exercise of working out my targets without the teacher can only be a good thing.

Richard. Thank you so much for that elucidation on Liszt - I'd say "in a nutshell" but I'm actually trying to think of a smaller container. wink and on that other comment of yours...
..... cheeky, cheeky fellow!
smile
_________________________
XVIII-XXXV
Everything's too hard until you make it easy. Follow your teacher's instructions and practice wisely/much, and you'll soon wonder how you ever found it hard ;)-BobPickle
Performance anxiety: make it part of your daily routine and deal with it...Cope! zrtf90

Top
#2128095 - 08/04/13 07:32 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: casinitaly]
malkin Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/18/09
Posts: 2754
Loc: *sigh* Salt Lake City
I can set the goal for my behavior--practice this section--however many times, but I can't set the time for the outcome--play this piece (or even this measure) competently at a designated tempo in a specific time frame.

It takes as long as it takes.
"We're not in a hurry." I am reminded at every lesson.
_________________________
A good student is one who makes the teacher feel like a good teacher.

Top
#2128225 - 08/04/13 11:18 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: aTallGuyNH]
Bobpickle Offline

Gold Supporter until July 10  2014


Registered: 05/24/12
Posts: 1383
Loc: Cameron Park, California
Originally Posted By: aTallGuyNH
I'm with you... very small is what I was thinking, such as having a goal that is essentially only about focus, not about aptitude at all. Mine will likely be of the form "practice only measures x through y, then only do full run through at end of practice session".

Basically, I need to focus on focusing. smile


Overwhelming one's self (with either too ambitious/unrealistic of goals and/or simply trying to practice too much at once) is probably the single best/fastest way to de-motivate yourself and then really not be able to focus. See this post I made from a month ago on tips for setting practice goals, and how "not being able to focus" often isn't an issue of focus at all.

Top
#2128381 - 08/05/13 08:49 AM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Bobpickle]
aTallGuyNH Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/22/12
Posts: 509
Originally Posted By: Bobpickle
Originally Posted By: aTallGuyNH
I'm with you... very small is what I was thinking, such as having a goal that is essentially only about focus, not about aptitude at all. Mine will likely be of the form "practice only measures x through y, then only do full run through at end of practice session".

Basically, I need to focus on focusing. smile


Overwhelming one's self (with either too ambitious/unrealistic of goals and/or simply trying to practice too much at once) is probably the single best/fastest way to de-motivate yourself and then really not be able to focus. See this post I made from a month ago on tips for setting practice goals, and how "not being able to focus" often isn't an issue of focus at all.

Thanks... perfect timing...

Last night I had a horrendous session where I said "well, I guess my goal needs to be to play two notes in proper rhythm". I need to reset my level of difficulty (again).
_________________________
"...when you do practice properly, it seems to take no time at all. Just do it right five times or so, and then stop." -- JimF

Working on: my aversion to practicing in front of my wife

1978 Vose & Sons spinet "Rufus"
1914 Huntington upright "Mabel"

XXIX-XXXII

Top
#2128396 - 08/05/13 09:18 AM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
255 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/22/12
Posts: 151
It's hooooooooooot!!!

Top
#2128466 - 08/05/13 12:25 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
casinitaly Offline


Gold Supporter until March 1 2014


Registered: 03/01/10
Posts: 5305
Loc: Italy
After a long day of cycling I'm looking at my piano...feeling like my brain has gone on holiday and left me behind. I doubt any serious piano work is going to happen today. I am glad that my goal calendar has nothing to specific on for today (good planning on my part smile )

28km - all the way around one of our local lakes- a few little hills, various types of road surfaces, great views. It was cool. No, it was stinking hot - but it was cool.

I'm pooped - and I think my piano is pouting.
_________________________
XVIII-XXXV
Everything's too hard until you make it easy. Follow your teacher's instructions and practice wisely/much, and you'll soon wonder how you ever found it hard ;)-BobPickle
Performance anxiety: make it part of your daily routine and deal with it...Cope! zrtf90

Top
#2128480 - 08/05/13 12:51 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: casinitaly]
aTallGuyNH Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/22/12
Posts: 509
Originally Posted By: casinitaly

I'm pooped - and I think my piano is pouting.

To borrow a saying I've heard re: computers:

"Don't anthropomorphize pianos... they hate that!"

grin ha
_________________________
"...when you do practice properly, it seems to take no time at all. Just do it right five times or so, and then stop." -- JimF

Working on: my aversion to practicing in front of my wife

1978 Vose & Sons spinet "Rufus"
1914 Huntington upright "Mabel"

XXIX-XXXII

Top
#2128482 - 08/05/13 12:58 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
PianoStudent88 Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/16/11
Posts: 3206
Loc: Maine
My focus and plans are documented on the Bernhard thread: Practicing what Bernhard teaches: a workshop thread.

I'd love it if anyone interested in trying these methods (either in detail or in general) joined in, either there or here. Of course I'm always interested in reading about anyone's ways of practicing and learning. I've been following FOYD with great interest.

My focus is to keep focusing on my Bernhard practicing.
_________________________
Ebaug(maj7)

Top
#2128494 - 08/05/13 01:20 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: PianoStudent88]
SwissMS Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/11
Posts: 853
Loc: Switzerland
Originally Posted By: PianoStudent88
My focus and plans are documented on the Bernhard thread: Practicing what Bernhard teaches: a workshop thread.

I'd love it if anyone interested in trying these methods (either in detail or in general) joined in, either there or here. Of course I'm always interested in reading about anyone's ways of practicing and learning. I've been following FOYD with great interest.

My focus is to keep focusing on my Bernhard practicing.


I have been closely following your Bernhard thread, and trying to apply the principles to my practice. My focus pieces are all in the polishing stage, and so I haven't used the principles there much, but I started two pieces "on the side" just to try out the ideas. The pieces are BurgmĂĽller op 100 # 24, "The Swallow", and Streabbog "The Orphan". So far the methods seem to be working well for me. These are relatively easy pieces, but they are coming together quite fast. I have done the focussed 20 minute chunks and did the aural study with the score. I will post my progress on them on Friday.
_________________________


Working on ABRSM Grade 6
European Piano Party July 4, 2015 in Switzerland!

Top
#2128501 - 08/05/13 01:31 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
PianoStudent88 Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/16/11
Posts: 3206
Loc: Maine
SwissMS, great to hear about what you've been trying.

I'm finding -- I don't know if the pieces are coming together faster, but I am spending less time practicing to get to at least the same point on them, if not further. And I feel like I'm making progress at learning passages that with my usual methods (much as I thought they were practicing in small sections etc. but all too easy to get tempted into playing through larger parts) would often remain challenging forever with little embedded gotcha's.
_________________________
Ebaug(maj7)

Top
#2128837 - 08/06/13 08:03 AM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
casinitaly Offline


Gold Supporter until March 1 2014


Registered: 03/01/10
Posts: 5305
Loc: Italy
Well, I had planned to record my Fughetta today, but frankly I see no point in doing so. I don't need to record to evaluate where the weak points are. I have made some small progress with the challenging measures, but I think it would be a waste of time recording it.

In retrospect I am not really convinced recording the Grieg was worthwhile either. ... except for giving me an opportunity to struggle with performance anxiety.
_________________________
XVIII-XXXV
Everything's too hard until you make it easy. Follow your teacher's instructions and practice wisely/much, and you'll soon wonder how you ever found it hard ;)-BobPickle
Performance anxiety: make it part of your daily routine and deal with it...Cope! zrtf90

Top
#2128845 - 08/06/13 08:38 AM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
zrtf90 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/29/12
Posts: 2458
Loc: Ireland (ex England)
Originally Posted By: casinitaly
Well, I had planned to record my Fughetta today, but frankly I see no point in doing so. I don't need to record to evaluate where the weak points are...I am not really convinced recording the Grieg was worthwhile either...
First of all, it gives you the opportunity to get it right on the first go. Look how many posters relate their experience of getting everything right in practise at home and screwing it up when they get to their teachers!

They don't get in right in practise unless they've just been practising it! We can all get it right, or better, after a few extra goes. It's getting it right on that one time, when you first get to the piano, when you first get to your lesson, when you focus on the playing (performance) instead of the practising (rehearsal), when it matters...

No, record it every day. That's the acid test of whether or not you've got it. It's not just to listen to yourself more objectively, it's to practise focusing on your performance.

Don't 'struggle' with performance anxiety. Make it part of your daily routine and deal with it just as you would any other obstacle to a perfect world. Cope!

When I was learning calligraphy I'd always put off a final run on fine, expensive handmade paper. My tutor got me to blot the page before use and write around it. You can't get used to writing on a fine toothed paper by practising on a layout pad.
_________________________
Richard

Top
#2128858 - 08/06/13 09:15 AM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: zrtf90]
CarlosCC Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/06/09
Posts: 1475
Loc: Lisbon, Portugal
Interesting short story about goals and focus. It's a story of a dancer, but I think it's applicable to anything.

Some sentences to highlight:
"She didn’t focus on receiving knowledge; instead she focused on action"
"She controlled the goals, instead of being controlled by them."
"The real payoff, however, is enjoyment."


Link: To Improve Faster, Think Like a Startup
_________________________

Youtube channel
Box.com MP3 records

Self-taught since 12/2009
Don't play what's there, play what's not there.

Top
#2128877 - 08/06/13 10:05 AM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
torquenale Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/29/12
Posts: 368
Loc: Italy
This is a wonderful thread! I am teacherless until October and I have 4 weeks here in The Netherlands with a DP and time to practice. This is the second week, and I am using a notebook where I set my weekly tasks. Last week was good, I achieved 90% of them; like others here I'm working on several pieces, and I only really failed on review part of an old one.
I can't write here my plans because I don't have an Internet connected computer here, so I use occasionally my phone but it is soooo boring!
But I hope you can go on with such a nice job!
_________________________



Top
#2128959 - 08/06/13 01:54 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
casinitaly Offline


Gold Supporter until March 1 2014


Registered: 03/01/10
Posts: 5305
Loc: Italy
Torquenale - so glad you could join us! (and I know the hassles of trying to post using your phone - just put what you can and we'll be glad to hear from you! )

Carloscc : that was an interesting article and video. You highlighted some good points, for sure - but another line jumped out at me " to practice for at least five minutes each day. This allowed her to keep expectations low and avoid disappointment"

I think that it is a struggle to keep expectations low. For me anyway. I've always been pretty fast at learning how to do things and I have extremely high expectations for myself - it is really hard to be patient. Apart from learning calculus at a late age, this is probably the hardest thing I've ever done (and I didn't stick with the calculus smile )

Richard: You are right. I will take your advice to heart. - Correction - I HAVE taken your advice to heart. I recorded 3 pieces today. No, none of them were good takes, yes, I was on edge the whole time. .....however the parts of the Fughetta I was struggling with did come out better than before -(not a lot better, but at this point I'm willing to take a few crumbs of consolation this as a bit of encouragement! ).

Part of my problem is setting the bar too high, too early. The bar is in the right place, but at the wrong moment.

However, I also realized that I had written my fingering for the left had ABOVE the notes, instead of below them - and (in part) that was tripping me up because I was reading the number for the left hand but playing it with the right. sigh.

(p.s. I hope you don't mind my paraphrasing what you said for my siggy - I want this "in my face" for a while :):) )


Edited by casinitaly (08/06/13 02:02 PM)
Edit Reason: added the ps
_________________________
XVIII-XXXV
Everything's too hard until you make it easy. Follow your teacher's instructions and practice wisely/much, and you'll soon wonder how you ever found it hard ;)-BobPickle
Performance anxiety: make it part of your daily routine and deal with it...Cope! zrtf90

Top
#2128971 - 08/06/13 02:10 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
keystring Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11851
Loc: Canada
Right now my goals are limited to one thing. I want to get at a particular thing so that I can finish my Grieg piece in the sense of polishing and recording it. It's relatively slow with the same thing happening over and over: Grieg doesn't vary it at all. I noticed that a few performers made it sound interesting rather than blah. All of them do something interesting with timing. They stretch some notes (like rubato), make some things a bit faster. I'm trying to hear what they are doing and make sense of it. Then experimenting (to make sense of it). Then if I can figure out what I might do with the piece for this part, I can practice it. I have copies with little scribbles - faster, slower, timing, squiggles.

So I'm trying to get at this side of it, and if I can, the next step is to decide what to do and then practice it, and then make a recording and test it out as a piece.

Somebody wrote about deadlines as motivators. There's one here since our Griegs have to be in by a certain time. I don't like them. When I had lessons on my first instrument to involve lessons, there were pieces that had to be ready for the recital. So often there were things I wanted to explore that would make my playing better or immerse myself in something, but this or that deadline had to be kept, stopping me. Once I was on my own again, I enjoyed above all that I could take as much time as I needed, go as deeply into something that interested me, stop if it seemed wise to stop - no deadline. Same for practising: go as far as you can go, use your judgment, stop when it seems the right time to stop.

That's why I want to get this Grieg done. Even if I give myself time to work on other things, it's hanging over my head because it "has" to be done by a certain time, and it has to be as good as I can make it. I didn't like this while taking lessons when they were still under this formal structure and I still don't like it. I cannot do my best work this way, and it's not as enjoyable.

Top
#2128997 - 08/06/13 03:10 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: casinitaly]
zrtf90 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/29/12
Posts: 2458
Loc: Ireland (ex England)
Originally Posted By: casinitaly
p.s. I hope you don't mind my paraphrasing what you said for my siggy
Andy and Farm Girl might feel disgruntled, but who is this rztf90 fellow?

smile
_________________________
Richard

Top
#2129012 - 08/06/13 03:44 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: zrtf90]
casinitaly Offline


Gold Supporter until March 1 2014


Registered: 03/01/10
Posts: 5305
Loc: Italy
Originally Posted By: zrtf90
Originally Posted By: casinitaly
p.s. I hope you don't mind my paraphrasing what you said for my siggy
Andy and Farm Girl might feel disgruntled, but who is this rztf90 fellow?

smile



Oh crikey. Sorry!!!!!!!! Fixed!
(actualy , I wanted to put "Richard" as well, but I ran out of character space in my siggy :))


Edited by casinitaly (08/06/13 03:48 PM)
_________________________
XVIII-XXXV
Everything's too hard until you make it easy. Follow your teacher's instructions and practice wisely/much, and you'll soon wonder how you ever found it hard ;)-BobPickle
Performance anxiety: make it part of your daily routine and deal with it...Cope! zrtf90

Top
#2129016 - 08/06/13 03:47 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: keystring]
casinitaly Offline


Gold Supporter until March 1 2014


Registered: 03/01/10
Posts: 5305
Loc: Italy
Originally Posted By: keystring
That's why I want to get this Grieg done. Even if I give myself time to work on other things, it's hanging over my head because it "has" to be done by a certain time, and it has to be as good as I can make it. I didn't like this while taking lessons when they were still under this formal structure and I still don't like it. I cannot do my best work this way, and it's not as enjoyable.


I'm not a fan of deadlines either, but I do like the "schedule" of the recitals - and for the Grieg, well, there was enough lead time I didn't feel rushed.

Of course now we're closer and I am feeling unready... but I'm hoping that my focus over the next few weeks will get me over that hump. We can but do our best - whatever our best is at this moment.
_________________________
XVIII-XXXV
Everything's too hard until you make it easy. Follow your teacher's instructions and practice wisely/much, and you'll soon wonder how you ever found it hard ;)-BobPickle
Performance anxiety: make it part of your daily routine and deal with it...Cope! zrtf90

Top
#2129033 - 08/06/13 04:20 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
zrtf90 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/29/12
Posts: 2458
Loc: Ireland (ex England)
One of the great benefits I've had since getting my new 'modern' digital is the ability to record at the press of a button.

I get each phrase to the point that I can record it, which is quite soon (geologically speaking).

1 Hit the record button,
2 think it through a couple of times,
3 play the phrase,
4 stop the recording,
5 curse a little (or a lot, usually in inverse proportion to the thinking time from step 2)

repeat ad nauseam

Once the 'think it through' bit has been done sufficiently well the phrase is recorded consistently well and we can move onto the next phrase.

Phrases that have been recorded well can be kept more easily in memory (and in the fingers) than those that have simply passed muster at the end a session. A very measurable and objective point has been reached, something akin to critical mass, where the phrase is maintainable and it can be quickly refreshed when it's time to record it with its adjacent companion.

These things build up and each stage is only a small step ahead. Eventually I reach a point where I have two halves in good shape and I only have to try 23 takes a day for a month to do the whole thing. smile
_____________________

I see you've discovered my identity correctly, Cheryl. I now just have to consult the copyright laws... smile

_____________________

I'm inspired by this thread and its reception in the forum to post, in addition to the Grieg recital piece, my focus for the November ABF Recital, Brahms' Ballad in D minor Op. 10/1.

I learnt the first page many years ago but didn't memorise it and gave up after trying to play 3v2 with crossed hands. I couldn't play full chords with the same alacrity as I can manage today either.

This week is just listening. I've to memorise it again (as a hummable tune in my head) before I get back to the piano with it and analyse it also. I used not to do that last time I tackled this wee beastie.

I've mopped up four long-outstanding unfinished pieces because of these recitals. The motivation from posting a recording is unbelievable!
_________________________
Richard

Top
#2129045 - 08/06/13 04:49 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
keystring Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11851
Loc: Canada
Record features are fantastic, and we have a real advantage over students years ago. I have that feature on my DP and also have a cable leading to the computer so I could have it running continuously while I practice. I don't necessarily check if something is perfect or perfectly matching a goal, but I'll want to see what it sounds like and what I can catch. Sometimes I hear something really cool, and try to remember what I did. Other times I'll notice a problem that I didn't hear while practising. It's not always related to what I was trying to achieve. If I actually try to achieve a particular result, that makes me anxious, and I don't go there. Rather, I trust that if I work a certain way, things will develop, and then I listen to see what's happening. It's like when your baby toddles along every day, and you're delighted as he falls less, and his prattle starts resembling words. laugh

Top
#2129067 - 08/06/13 05:31 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: keystring]
peterws Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 3880
Loc: Northern England.
"Somebody wrote about deadlines as motivators."

Dead right they are! A motivation for me to play at all. If it wasn`t for these, I wouldn`t be on this forum, I wouldn`t be playing again. . . I wouldn`t be considering buying a new pee-anno, or acquiring a new index finger (RH but a decent LH will do)
_________________________
"I'm playing all the right notes ďż˝ but not necessarily in the right order." Eric Morecambe

""

Top
#2129270 - 08/07/13 02:58 AM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: peterws]
SwissMS Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/11
Posts: 853
Loc: Switzerland
I also have started recording everyday. At first I just recorded using the built in function on my digital. Now I record on the accoustic at least once a week using my Q3HD video recorder, so that I can see what I am doing as well as hear it. It helps to be able to analyze movements, recognize tension, and seems to really help me improve technique. Grieg Valse Impromptu was causing pain in my left hand, and analyzing the video, it became clear why it was happening. I was able to change fingering and arm motion to correct the problem. Without recording it, I might not have figured it out. Most of these recordings are throw aways, but it also helps to reduce "red dot syndrome". smile

Deadlines as motivators also works for me. I think focussing on the ABF recitals has really improved my playing. It adds a reward for all the hard work.
_________________________


Working on ABRSM Grade 6
European Piano Party July 4, 2015 in Switzerland!

Top
#2129292 - 08/07/13 05:41 AM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
casinitaly Offline


Gold Supporter until March 1 2014


Registered: 03/01/10
Posts: 5305
Loc: Italy
Richard - I like the idea of just recording phrases - smaller bites!

SwissMS- I find it interesting you are able to spot your own tension in the video - but even more so that you know what to do to get rid of it.

For my recording I don't usually do video, I do audio - and I do it from the silent feature (so digital) which means getting the computer out and hooking it up - checking the volume is ok for audacity. It is a bit of a pain.
....but... I guess it is time to get it set up and work on today's efforts!

To quote Arnie... "I'll be back."
_________________________
XVIII-XXXV
Everything's too hard until you make it easy. Follow your teacher's instructions and practice wisely/much, and you'll soon wonder how you ever found it hard ;)-BobPickle
Performance anxiety: make it part of your daily routine and deal with it...Cope! zrtf90

Top
#2129322 - 08/07/13 08:53 AM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: casinitaly]
malkin Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/18/09
Posts: 2754
Loc: *sigh* Salt Lake City
Originally Posted By: casinitaly
...SwissMS- I find it interesting you are able to spot your own tension in the video - but even more so that you know what to do to get rid of it.


Wow!
This is the sort of thing that might get me to record myself. Not yet, but maybe someday.
_________________________
A good student is one who makes the teacher feel like a good teacher.

Top
#2129341 - 08/07/13 09:52 AM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: malkin]
keystring Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11851
Loc: Canada
Perhaps I did not word myself well about deadlines. The point is that it's not the only way to go, even though it may work for some or even many people. I thought about deadlines when I read about it, and realized that this does not work well for me, and why. A couple of people have written that their focus is on things they reach for and then "it takes as long as it takes". That is what I relate to. For example, I see this post by malkin:
Originally Posted By: malkin
I can set the goal for my behavior--practice this section--however many times, but I can't set the time for the outcome--play this piece (or even this measure) competently at a designated tempo in a specific time frame.

It takes as long as it takes.
"We're not in a hurry." I am reminded at every lesson.

That's what I relate to. It doesn't have to be for everyone.

This goes straight back to when I first had formal lessons, and having to get a piece ready for a recital and not being able to linger on things that seemed important because of that. I'd feel that if I worked on this and that, my playing would get better, pieces would get better, but I was stuck polishing those pieces for an event that happened by a certain date, and couldn't get to it. Apparently this affected me more than I realized, because anything resembling it seems to set off rather negative feelings. My own personal experience is that I can't focus as sharply, I can't draw on my instinct of "what to work on" and just follow it, because there is a piece that has to be polished by a certain date. This is totally me and where I'm at. I don't expect anyone else to feel that way.

Top
#2129353 - 08/07/13 10:31 AM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: aTallGuyNH]
aTallGuyNH Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/22/12
Posts: 509
Originally Posted By: aTallGuyNH
Last night I had a horrendous session where I said "well, I guess my goal needs to be to play two notes in proper rhythm". I need to reset my level of difficulty (again).

So, my goal is to focus on rhythm, no matter how painful, and no matter how short the portion of the piece.

I tried "Song #2" for my wife (well-known pop song, but not putting the title in case she happens to spot reference to it in an email from PW), but determined it was much too complex a rhythm for this effort -- turns out I have no idea how to properly count triplets.

I settled on the first two measures, RH only, of the hymn I'm working on. After 30 minutes of relatively focused practice, I was able to dramatically improve the bpm at which I could do it accurately (5 times in a row)...

wait

for

it...

from 20 bpm to 30 bpm.

Yay. (sarcasm)

Keep in mind, this is a hymn... it's pretty darn simple, and I've been working on it for weeks. There are a couple 1/16 notes, but it's mostly half, quarter, and eighths. I tried the left hand and it was a trainwreck, even at 20bpm.

On the bright side, the next day I was able to maintain the RH at 30 bpm and do OK but not great at 35 bpm, but this is truly excruciating.

I think I might start an ISMPSIHML thread... I Suck, My Piano Sucks, and I Hate My Life. A safe place to let one's negativity flow freely.

Originally Posted By: Saranoya
you just post a specific goal, and the date by which you would like to have reached it.

I'm breaking the rules already... posting a result without having posted the goal in advance. And, I feel like I'm cheating on AOTW with FYOD. smile

Goal: For "When I Survey..." (aka "The River is Wide"), take one phrase at a time, one hand a time, always playing with the metronome.
When: Whenever it gets done. Done, for each phrase and the whole thing, is 45 bpm (perform at 40 bpm) HT 5x in a row.

For Song #2, I'm just going to skip dealing with rhythm for now and fake it as best I can.
_________________________
"...when you do practice properly, it seems to take no time at all. Just do it right five times or so, and then stop." -- JimF

Working on: my aversion to practicing in front of my wife

1978 Vose & Sons spinet "Rufus"
1914 Huntington upright "Mabel"

XXIX-XXXII

Top
#2129395 - 08/07/13 12:15 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
casinitaly Offline


Gold Supporter until March 1 2014


Registered: 03/01/10
Posts: 5305
Loc: Italy
Keystrings: "it takes as long as it takes" is my overall attitude. I will get better when I get better - of course, doing everything I can to improve. But I don't say that I'll be able to play a Chopin Nocturne in the next 2 months - or six.... I'll get there when I can cope with it.

I do like the fact that the recital deadlines and the recordings for them give me a benchmark picture of where I am. I'd say that for most of the pieces I have submitted I've been able to play them better a few months down the road. Possibly because at that point I know them well and I am not worried about them, I become more musical.

Ideally that will happen earlier and earlier as I make progress
.


Tall Guy -- I hear you on being frustrated with how slowly we have to go to get something under our fingertips.

I realized today (while I was recording smile ) that in my Fughetta, another problem is that for some crazy reason, I was speeding up near the end of the piece - which is the more difficult section. Why? Who knows. Out came the metronome and I tested , decreasing and decreasing the speed til I got to 100bpm ... but 100bpm for a quarternote!!! (the melody swings back and forth left and right hand in quarternotes) ... so... that was discouraging on the one hand, but satisfying on the other because I did manage to play it.

I then used the metronome to set my speed for the Grieg piece (thank goodness it is MEANT to be very slow!!) - and did a run through of the melody that I generally mess up. By setting a speed that worked for this part I also sorted out other parts too, being more respectful of rests, which I realized I'd been sloppy with.

So...... lots of realizations.

(I feel like I've abandoned the AOTW thread too..Ack! smile )
_________________________
XVIII-XXXV
Everything's too hard until you make it easy. Follow your teacher's instructions and practice wisely/much, and you'll soon wonder how you ever found it hard ;)-BobPickle
Performance anxiety: make it part of your daily routine and deal with it...Cope! zrtf90

Top
#2129421 - 08/07/13 01:08 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
Valencia Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 256

i might like to join this thread at some point. I just returned from a couple weeks visit with family and my luggage was delayed and all my music was in it! So hopefully when it is returned I can start some more focused practice.

One problem for me can be setting goals. There can be so many issues that need working on in a small passage it can be hard to isolate the very specific things needed for improvement.

Top
#2129428 - 08/07/13 01:24 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
PianoStudent88 Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/16/11
Posts: 3206
Loc: Maine
Valencia, even without your music you could work on improvising, aural investigations, working tunes out by ear, composing, or oodles of nuanced variations on scales and arpeggios.

Hope your luggage and music arrives soon.
_________________________
Ebaug(maj7)

Top
#2129508 - 08/07/13 05:39 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
zrtf90 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/29/12
Posts: 2458
Loc: Ireland (ex England)
Originally Posted By: aTallGuyNH
So, my goal is to focus on rhythm, no matter how painful, and no matter how short the portion of the piece.
...
For Song #2, I'm just going to skip dealing with rhythm for now and fake it as best I can.
Hmm!

Originally Posted By: aTallGuyNH
I'm breaking the rules already...
Rules? Did I miss something?

Originally Posted By: aTallGuyNH
...turns out I have no idea how to properly count triplets.
Strawberry, apricot, raspberry, blueberry, cucumber, trick or treat, calendar, monicker....

Originally Posted By: aTallGuyNH
...it's pretty darn simple...a couple 1/16 notes, but it's mostly half, quarter, and eighths
four different note lengths in two measures? And this is simple?

Originally Posted By: aTallGuyNH
I tried the left hand and it was a trainwreck, even at 20bpm.
What's your rush? 20 bpm is lightning fast if you haven't got the rhythm down.

I start difficult stuff at four clicks per semiquaver at 60 bpm. That's 16 clicks/seconds per quarter; less than four beats per minute.

Originally Posted By: aTallGuyNH
Goal: For "When I Survey..." (aka "The River is Wide"), take one phrase at a time, one hand a time, always playing with the metronome.
Let's see if we can fix this.

Can you count and clap the beat in 4/4 time and 3/4 time? What time sig. is the hymn in? What note values are in the first measure (including any anacrusis or pickup)?
_________________________
Richard

Top
#2129649 - 08/08/13 12:46 AM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
AimeeO Offline

Silver Supporter until Jan 04 2013


Registered: 05/20/10
Posts: 803
Loc: New Orleans
Okay I've finally got that awful programming exam out of the way and can get back to concentrating on important things - like piano! Nothing makes you want to play more than having to do something else.

It's funny that you bring up this thread, Saranoya. One of the classes I was taking this summer was Project Management, and we used MS Project. I was thinking about using it to map out my goals for my bigger pieces. (I keep a daily journal, but I like the idea of a "map" to see where I am going and where I'm at.) I get lost in details a lot, so I need help looking at the big picture to reign me in. I like this idea too. By posting it here, I can think about where I'm going and be held "accountable" for it. Not that you guys are holding me accountable, but since I'm telling you I'm going to do something I feel obligated it. smile

I also like to see how other people "process," and hope to learn from that, also.

I'm going to keep this week's rather short. I'm in a weird spot where I have more pieces and things than I would normally like to have in progress, and my main focus is to get things done.

1.) Be able to play Hanon 5-8 nonstop at 60 bpm. We're doing this continuous thing to hopefully build my stamina. I've been working on Fur Elise, but I'm having problems getting the second section past a certain speed without derailing in a fantastic way. So my teacher thought it would be good to get me doing the Hanon in groups, and slowly upping my speed.
2.) Record my recital piece!
3.) Go through Sweelinck's Toccata measures 26-50 measure by measure, and get them right, instead of blundering through. I have most of them right, but not consistent, so I need to break it down.

Goal: Next Thursday (except for my recording, obviously!)
I will try really hard to keep up with this thread, too - starting now!

Top
#2129807 - 08/08/13 10:26 AM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: zrtf90]
aTallGuyNH Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/22/12
Posts: 509
Originally Posted By: AimeeO
I'm in, but will probably post my FOYD Wednesday.

You left 14 perfectly good minutes of potential procrastination on the table! <sigh>

Originally Posted By: zrtf90
Originally Posted By: aTallGuyNH
So, my goal is to focus on rhythm, no matter how painful, and no matter how short the portion of the piece.
...
For Song #2, I'm just going to skip dealing with rhythm for now and fake it as best I can.
Hmm!


This is simply because it's too complex for me to try to use it as a learning vehicle to do things "just so". I'll just do the best I can based on mimicking the original artist. It's what I can reasonably do given the reason I'm doing the song.

For the rest of the particulars re: counting, I decided to start a separate thread so that FOYD can focus on its domain and not get too much in the weeds on this particular issue. smile
_________________________
"...when you do practice properly, it seems to take no time at all. Just do it right five times or so, and then stop." -- JimF

Working on: my aversion to practicing in front of my wife

1978 Vose & Sons spinet "Rufus"
1914 Huntington upright "Mabel"

XXIX-XXXII

Top
#2129885 - 08/08/13 12:23 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: PianoStudent88]
Valencia Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 256
Originally Posted By: PianoStudent88
Valencia, even without your music you could work on improvising, aural investigations, working tunes out by ear, composing, or oodles of nuanced variations on scales and arpeggios.

Hope your luggage and music arrives soon.


PianoStudent88, Thanks for these suggestions! I decided to work on some of the music I had memorized, which included scales from some pieces, and also did a little sight-reading with music I had laying around here. Thankfully my luggage has finally arrived so now I can get into my pieces again!

Top
#2129902 - 08/08/13 12:46 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
Valencia Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 256
I might need to post a few daily goals this week in order to get my recital pieces ready in time. Hope this is ok. My focus for today:

1. Angel: keep the right hand non-melody notes soft and bring out melody. Do a practice recording. (I hope to submit this to the ABF recital next week).

2. Sailors' Song (which I just picked up for the Grieg recital)-play through the end of the piece (bars 53-56) to get familiar with chords, but not so much that it hurts my hand.

3. Peace of the Woods: Listen to last recording and mark bars where there are continuous hesitations. Choose a few bars and practice them through and figure out what the problem is.

Top
#2129920 - 08/08/13 01:21 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
casinitaly Offline


Gold Supporter until March 1 2014


Registered: 03/01/10
Posts: 5305
Loc: Italy
Great to read what everyone is up to - and I see we already have a spin-off thread .. lol.

So today I recorded the Fughetta, Watchmans Song and Evening in the Meadow. I was supposed to do Meadow tomorrow but hubby has the day off and I think we'll be out so I decided to jump the gun and do it today.

The good news: Fughetta went much better - especially the parts that had been wobbly before. There were some little glitches, but playing it at the slower speed is making a huge difference and I will stay at this speed a while longer.

Watchman's Song - the light melody went MUCH better today and the intermezzo was slightly better. I can live with that!

Evening in the Meadow was rougher than I expected when I started recording. For this one I felt nervous with the red dot - for the others, I didn't. Isn't that odd?

I realized that my goal of getting the Austian tunes right by tomorrow , even at slow tempo, wasn't realistic. So I'm pushing that out - and I am having too much frustration with the Adagio Sarabande so I am considering dropping it and pulling in a little lullaby... thinking about it.

I can see a difference that the very small focus practicing is making, and that's good.
_________________________
XVIII-XXXV
Everything's too hard until you make it easy. Follow your teacher's instructions and practice wisely/much, and you'll soon wonder how you ever found it hard ;)-BobPickle
Performance anxiety: make it part of your daily routine and deal with it...Cope! zrtf90

Top
#2130151 - 08/09/13 01:27 AM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: casinitaly]
AimeeO Offline

Silver Supporter until Jan 04 2013


Registered: 05/20/10
Posts: 803
Loc: New Orleans
Originally Posted By: aTallGuyNH
Originally Posted By: AimeeO
I'm in, but will probably post my FOYD Wednesday.

You left 14 perfectly good minutes of potential procrastination on the table! <sigh>

[

Um, to be fair, I don't wake up til one or two pm, so I don't think I should be held actually accountable for actual *time*. I am making progress - I did something early! grin

So far, with my new focus, I have decided to make better use of my time, and not record all the repeats. My Red Dot Syndrome isn't ready for it.

I did a great job of focusing on my problem spots in my recital piece. Didn't really hit the other two. But it's only been a day!

Originally Posted By: casinitaly

Evening in the Meadow was rougher than I expected when I started recording. For this one I felt nervous with the red dot - for the others, I didn't. Isn't that odd?



No because I want that confidence where I can record anything without being nervous! In all seriousness, when things are sounding rough, I'm beginning to realize that while I know it(or think I know it), I'm not comfortable with it. That has been rather eye opening for me.

Top
#2130156 - 08/09/13 01:38 AM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
sinophilia Offline

Gold Supporter until Sept. 05 2014


Registered: 06/26/12
Posts: 1022
Loc: Italy
Pfff... I didn't get much piano practice this week, but I still managed to work about half an hour a day on Bach's Minuet and Clementi's Arietta.

This minuet is definitely more difficult than the previous one, but I got it to 80 bpm, although some notes don't sound very good. There are so many technical issues that I should work out on their own and build exercises on, and they are all so basic, that I have a feeling I'm going backwards. Probably I'm also getting harder to please. The notes in the Arietta, for instance, are terribly simple, and yet this single page (on Pianist magazine) is full of comments and hints on dynamics and phrasing, and now I can't play a note without thinking: this should be louder, here starts a crescendo, or this needs to be accented, etc. I'm so distracted by these thoughts that I can barely hit the right notes!

My opinions and feelings about piano practice keep changing - and I kind of like it!
_________________________
Diana & Wally - Yamaha W110BW
Martha Argerich... is an incarnation of the artistic metaphor of the "eternal feminine" that draws us upward. (Sergio Sablich)

Top
#2130177 - 08/09/13 04:10 AM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: sinophilia]
SwissMS Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/11
Posts: 853
Loc: Switzerland
I am really enjoying reading about what everyone is working on! I think this thread is going to be a real motivator. Well, this is my one week on FOYD report:

1) Grieg Melody - I achieved the tempo I wanted and recorded it. This week I will work on better phrasing. These Grieg pieces are both 2 1/2 repeats. I would like to show some definition between the repeats for more interest. Goal - Record for performance.

2) Grieg Valse Impromptu- The new fingering worked, and I recorded at medium tempo. I still have a couple of uncomfortable spots ( 5th's 5-3 to 7th's with 3-1 on the LH) that I feel I need to reconsider. This one I am being very careful of at full tempo. I sent a recording of this and Melody to my teacher for review. She is conducting workshops in the US right now. My goal this week for this one, is to continue slow play without tension.

3) Liszt Consolation #3 - The jumps are smoother. I think this one needs practice performance this week and recording at tempo.

4) Bach Invention 6 - HS is memorized. I have combined "A" section. Goal this week - combine first 1/2 of "B" section and continue playing both sections HS to solidify shaping.

5) Streabbog The Ophan, BurgmĂĽller Swallow - These are my Bernhard experiment pieces. I applied the 20 minute limit section by section, slow, accurate play, as well as listening to recordings with the score prior to playing. Orphan is the easier of the two, and is nearly memorized and ready to record. I am not sure if it was a good test. Swallow is learned, and needs shaping. I can play this one with the score, but the variations on the patterns are not fully memorized. My goal is to record Orphan, and get Swallow fully memorized. Overall I think my attempt at the method was successful. I have good accuracy and the learning process was rapid. However, neither of these pieces was technically challenging for me. Once I finish these two pieces I want to try it on a more challenging piece. I am applying the approach to combining the Bach invention HT as well.

6) Overall goal, based on above. SLOW DOWN. My biggest problem is impatience. I speed things up too soon, and introduce errors. Slow and accurate need to occur even after a piece is learned.
_________________________


Working on ABRSM Grade 6
European Piano Party July 4, 2015 in Switzerland!

Top
#2130187 - 08/09/13 05:00 AM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
Saranoya Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/13
Posts: 632
Loc: Brussels, Belgium
Well, it's Friday. It's not Friday night yet, but in all honesty, I think it's pretty safe to say that I have failed to achieve my goal. I got two thirds of the way through BWV 930. The last third ... well, I can do hands separate.

Like Richard said, it was pretty ambitious. I *knew* he was right even before I got started. And like I told him at the time, that's not a bug, it's a feature. I shoot for Alpha Centauri, and when I fail to get there (which happens pretty often), then at least I can land on the moon and still be pretty satisfied.

That's exactly what happened here. The fact that I had a plan has allowed me to make more concrete progress in the past week than in the five weeks of summer break that came before it.

Per my stated goal, I *had* to finish the Bach, so I focused mostly on that. But in the meantime, I also got to the end of the first page of Chopin's Grande Valse Brilliante (opus 34/2), and I made some tangible progress on two of the BurgmĂĽllers (opus 100, nrs. 14 and 17), though neither of them are anywhere near performance-ready.

I am *still* going to try for a recording of the Bach before the ABF recital deadline, but I have a different piece on standby in case I fail.

Other than that, by next Friday, I hope to have finished the two BurgmĂĽllers, and to have gotten a little further along on the Chopin, though I'm not going to make a definite goal out of that.
_________________________
Beginner with some priors since 9/2012

Currently Playable
Bach 846, 926, 930
Beethoven 27/2 mvt. 1
Burgmüller 100/3, 4, 7, 12, 15, 19, 25
Chopin 72/1
Clementi 36/1
Grieg 12/1, 7
Tchaikovsky 39/9

Future
Burgmüller 109
Bartok Sz 56
Mozart K331

Top
#2130190 - 08/09/13 05:18 AM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
CarlosCC Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/06/09
Posts: 1475
Loc: Lisbon, Portugal
I would say that my goals are being reached. I'm in conditions to do a record of my piece to ABF Recital as I wanted. I was really focused on this.
_________________________

Youtube channel
Box.com MP3 records

Self-taught since 12/2009
Don't play what's there, play what's not there.

Top
#2130196 - 08/09/13 05:48 AM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: SwissMS]
Bobpickle Offline

Gold Supporter until July 10  2014


Registered: 05/24/12
Posts: 1383
Loc: Cameron Park, California
Originally Posted By: SwissMS
Once I finish these two pieces I want to try it on a more challenging piece. I am applying the approach to combining the Bach invention HT as well.


Here's some [more] advice regarding Bach's inventions if you'd like it:


Top
#2130217 - 08/09/13 06:50 AM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: CarlosCC]
zrtf90 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/29/12
Posts: 2458
Loc: Ireland (ex England)
Originally Posted By: CarlosCC
I'm in conditions to do a record of my piece to ABF Recital as I wanted. I was really focused on this.
I'd put it off, myself, and enjoy the birthday cake!

You might prefer to reward yourself later.

Have a great day! smile
_________________________
Richard

Top
#2130218 - 08/09/13 06:57 AM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: zrtf90]
CarlosCC Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/06/09
Posts: 1475
Loc: Lisbon, Portugal
Originally Posted By: zrtf90
Originally Posted By: CarlosCC
I'm in conditions to do a record of my piece to ABF Recital as I wanted. I was really focused on this.
I'd put it off, myself, and enjoy the birthday cake!

You might prefer to reward yourself later.

Have a great day! smile



Thanks Richard! You're very kind thumb
_________________________

Youtube channel
Box.com MP3 records

Self-taught since 12/2009
Don't play what's there, play what's not there.

Top
#2130220 - 08/09/13 07:03 AM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
zrtf90 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/29/12
Posts: 2458
Loc: Ireland (ex England)
Originally Posted By: keystring
So I'm thinking that a specific goal will give you direction...
Exactly! Writing goals down has been shown to contribute to achievement success but mostly because it helps to express in words what the goal is and because it gives something to aim for and helps us to focus.

It's not about reaching goals, it's about providing ourselves with direction, not from where we were when we set them but from where we are now to where we want to go.
_________________________
Richard

Top
#2130221 - 08/09/13 07:09 AM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Bobpickle]
SwissMS Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/11
Posts: 853
Loc: Switzerland
Originally Posted By: Bobpickle
Originally Posted By: SwissMS
Once I finish these two pieces I want to try it on a more challenging piece. I am applying the approach to combining the Bach invention HT as well.


Here's some [more] advice regarding Bach's inventions if you'd like it:



Thanks for the links! This invention #6 has been much difficult to memorize than the #4. Mordents, inverted mordents, which?? ackk!
_________________________


Working on ABRSM Grade 6
European Piano Party July 4, 2015 in Switzerland!

Top
#2130225 - 08/09/13 07:18 AM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: SwissMS]
SwissMS Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/11
Posts: 853
Loc: Switzerland
Happy Birthday Carlos! Have a great day, and I hope your "Life" goes well!
_________________________


Working on ABRSM Grade 6
European Piano Party July 4, 2015 in Switzerland!

Top
#2130227 - 08/09/13 07:22 AM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: AimeeO]
casinitaly Offline


Gold Supporter until March 1 2014


Registered: 03/01/10
Posts: 5305
Loc: Italy
AimeeO> nice to read about your progress. As for your comment on my previous post...


Originally Posted By: AimeeO[quote=casinitaly

Evening in the Meadow was rougher than I expected when I started recording. For this one I felt nervous with the red dot - for the others, I didn't. Isn't that odd?



No because I want that confidence where I can record anything without being nervous! In all seriousness, when things are sounding rough, I'm beginning to realize that while I know it(or think I know it), I'm not comfortable with it. That has been rather eye opening for me. [/quote]

Exactly! That is what is happening to me to -- it is a concrete reality check!

Sinophilia -- I think being harder to please is a sign of development-- You know you can do more now and you want to see it happening!

SwissMS - I enjoyed reading the details of your progress. I think the slow down and small focus is working for me too. I haven't done a lot of listening with the score for my pieces - some, but not a lot. I may increase that when I need a break from playing!

Saranoya, glad to hear you are enjoying your time on the moon. From an extremely ambitious initial plan you do seem to have made some significant steps forward. Perhaps not all that were on the list , but as you said, that's what lights the fire and gets you rolling.

Bobpickle: thanks for the links!!


CarlosCC: Happy Birthday!!!!!! Have a great day!


Edited by casinitaly (08/09/13 07:24 AM)
Edit Reason: fixed link
_________________________
XVIII-XXXV
Everything's too hard until you make it easy. Follow your teacher's instructions and practice wisely/much, and you'll soon wonder how you ever found it hard ;)-BobPickle
Performance anxiety: make it part of your daily routine and deal with it...Cope! zrtf90

Top
#2130240 - 08/09/13 08:14 AM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
CarlosCC Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/06/09
Posts: 1475
Loc: Lisbon, Portugal
Thanks SwissMS!!!
And Cheryl, I loved your gift! Obrigado!
_________________________

Youtube channel
Box.com MP3 records

Self-taught since 12/2009
Don't play what's there, play what's not there.

Top
#2130258 - 08/09/13 08:50 AM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: CarlosCC]
casinitaly Offline


Gold Supporter until March 1 2014


Registered: 03/01/10
Posts: 5305
Loc: Italy
Originally Posted By: CarlosCC
Thanks SwissMS!!!
And Cheryl, I loved your gift! Obrigado!

É um prazer. Feliz aniversário.
_________________________
XVIII-XXXV
Everything's too hard until you make it easy. Follow your teacher's instructions and practice wisely/much, and you'll soon wonder how you ever found it hard ;)-BobPickle
Performance anxiety: make it part of your daily routine and deal with it...Cope! zrtf90

Top
#2130629 - 08/10/13 04:31 AM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
sinophilia Offline

Gold Supporter until Sept. 05 2014


Registered: 06/26/12
Posts: 1022
Loc: Italy
Oh, happy birthday Carlos!!

To sum it up... I half succeeded and half failed with my goals for the week. I have the Bach at 80/90 bpm but the Clementi only comes right at 60. The Stravinsky... well, I've just played through the first half a few times. It's longish and fast so I'll spend another week on it.

So for the next week my goal will be to do what I didn't do this week, plus I want to make the video for my Grieg recital piece.
_________________________
Diana & Wally - Yamaha W110BW
Martha Argerich... is an incarnation of the artistic metaphor of the "eternal feminine" that draws us upward. (Sergio Sablich)

Top
#2130655 - 08/10/13 06:23 AM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
zrtf90 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/29/12
Posts: 2458
Loc: Ireland (ex England)
Originally Posted By: sinophilia
To sum it up... I half succeeded and half failed with my goals for the week.
Why do we have goals? To focus our efforts. If we used the goals to focus our efforts then we may reach them or we may not. We can't fail on them if we use them.

And even if we don't use them to motivate ourselves or provide focus we still have made them and they're in our subconscious. Just making them and writing them down is, in fact, successfully using them.

The goal is not what matters, it's just a road sign on our journey that helps us make decisions when the road forks. The progress is what we're after. None of us knows where we're going to end up, only what route we want to follow.

So, let's not have any more talk of failure on this thread!

Congratulations, Diana, for focusing on your goals this week! smile

Originally Posted By: sinophilia
...Clementi only comes right at 60...
Yep, I've heard that, too. laugh
_________________________
Richard

Top
#2130679 - 08/10/13 07:58 AM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
keystring Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11851
Loc: Canada
Richard, good post! thumb

Top
#2130767 - 08/10/13 12:14 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
jotur Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 5659
Loc: Santa Fe, NM
Well, I will have to say that when I decide to do *only* focused practice it's much harder to get in 2 hours in a day laugh Altho I knew that before, and being aware of when I'm focused and when I'm not is a huge help in actually being focused.

I do remind myself, as someone, or perhaps many someones, have said here in the ABF, when I start to practice, to know what it is I'm going to do before I actually put my hands on the keys or start to play. That alone helps with the focus - the clearing away of extraneous thoughts and focusing on the music. I try to hear what I'm going to play before I start, and recall the chord progression or patterns.

One of the most common extraneous thoughts is "how many times have I played it, and what number is this repeat?" laugh I find myself counting many things in my head as I do them, not just at the piano, so when I'm doing fairly continuous repeats, which I do when I'm working on something besides just getting the notes right, the counting will sometimes interrupt the awareness/focus of the music. So then I know that I'm not quite settled/centered psychologically, and I need to either take a break, or pause for a moment and re-center.

So this week there were a couple of days when deep focus was less a possibility than it sometimes is. But I think, for me, that there are still things I can do that are helpful, even if I can't focus deeply on a particular problem. Playing pieces I know well, or even almost well, and just letting them express themselves, in many ways, is a great way to center and enjoy the music - to focus, in other words. The possibilities of the music are really endless.

At any rate, the new piece is ready to be trotted out at the gig Tuesday afternoon, and I'll be playing with it over the next couple of days. But I think being aware of where my focus is, and the details like knowing what I'm going to do, and just more often being focused as I practice small details, has helped a lot. I am more aware, more often, of what I'm playing, its familiarity, like it's just part of everyday life and I can just let it play itself.

It's a journey -

Cathy


Edited by jotur (08/10/13 12:45 PM)
Edit Reason: well, I obviously wasn't focused on grammar :)
_________________________

Top
#2130775 - 08/10/13 12:30 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Valencia]
Valencia Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 256
Originally Posted By: Valencia

1. Angel: keep the right hand non-melody notes soft and bring out melody. Do a practice recording. (I hope to submit this to the ABF recital next week).

2. Sailors' Song (which I just picked up for the Grieg recital)-play through the end of the piece (bars 53-56) to get familiar with chords, but not so much that it hurts my hand.

3. Peace of the Woods: Listen to last recording and mark bars where there are continuous hesitations. Choose a few bars and practice them through and figure out what the problem is.


Well, I had to use these daily goals over two days due to unforeseen circumstances, but that is ok. I recorded Angel, and might decide that it is "good enough" to submit to the recital for next week, even though it still needs some work. This is because I have to move on to the other recital pieces for the Grieg recital.

I'm just concerned about the volume of Angel because my digital piano records so low. I amplified it using audacity already. Is there anyone who would be willing to give it a listen by PM through a boxnet link to let me know if the volume is ok or if I need to amplify it more? Or, I suppose I could just post the link here and let anyone who wants to listen to it.

As for today's practice goals, I'll come back and post those right before I practice.

Top
#2130805 - 08/10/13 01:37 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Valencia]
CarlosCC Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/06/09
Posts: 1475
Loc: Lisbon, Portugal
Originally Posted By: Valencia
(...)
I'm just concerned about the volume of Angel because my digital piano records so low. I amplified it using audacity already. Is there anyone who would be willing to give it a listen by PM through a boxnet link to let me know if the volume is ok or if I need to amplify it more? Or, I suppose I could just post the link here and let anyone who wants to listen to it.

As for today's practice goals, I'll come back and post those right before I practice.


Valencia, I can help.
Just PM me.
_________________________

Youtube channel
Box.com MP3 records

Self-taught since 12/2009
Don't play what's there, play what's not there.

Top
#2130949 - 08/10/13 06:13 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
casinitaly Offline


Gold Supporter until March 1 2014


Registered: 03/01/10
Posts: 5305
Loc: Italy
Cathy - very interesting to read about how you centre and try to get into the music, and how you fight distractions.
I have a vague feeling that I'm starting to concentrate better when I am playing but it is not a certainty!

Richard - I liked your comments on goals and how they help even if we don't quite meet them.

Valencia - I know Carlos said he could listen - but if you need ears for the next pieces I'm available too.

I worked on Fly Me to the Moon today and felt things were coming together better.
As was my Intermezzo in the Grieg piece - small but clear progress.

I also went on a 42km bike ride smile Longest ride yet this year.
_________________________
XVIII-XXXV
Everything's too hard until you make it easy. Follow your teacher's instructions and practice wisely/much, and you'll soon wonder how you ever found it hard ;)-BobPickle
Performance anxiety: make it part of your daily routine and deal with it...Cope! zrtf90

Top
#2130958 - 08/10/13 06:35 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
CarlosCC Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/06/09
Posts: 1475
Loc: Lisbon, Portugal
A 42km bike ride??? Wow, that's great, Cheryl.

I did my record for ABF Recital. I'm #42. So my objective is done, BUT I did not lose focus on the next ABF Recital.

And yes, I was helping Valencia. The sound of the piece was just fine.
_________________________

Youtube channel
Box.com MP3 records

Self-taught since 12/2009
Don't play what's there, play what's not there.

Top
#2131204 - 08/11/13 12:12 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
Valencia Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 256
Yes CarlosCC helped me out yesterday, but thank you casinitaly for offer to help! smile

How is everyone doing with the focused practice?

Yesterday I submitted The Angel to the ABF quarterly recital. Now I must focus on the Grieg pieces.

1.Sailors’ Song: I think I’ll start using the metronome on this—starting with bars 26 to 32, then 33-36. So the goal is to find a tempo that I can play those through.

2.Peace of the Woods needs lots of work. I really wanted to play it well for the recital but perhaps I’ll only be able to play it at 60%. I’ve worked hard on this piece but it’s difficult. I did a practice recording of Peace of the Woods, last week, and if absolutely necessary I could submit it to the recital, but I’d like to see if I could do better. Here are some problems:

a)Need to bring out the melody and lighten up the bass.

b)Too much blurring with the pedal.

c)Bar 7, and bars 12-23, and 26-- I often hesitate before playing notes or hit wrong notes.

d)Bars 28-30—the build up to the pinnacle--this is like a tongue twister and I often get turned around with the coordination.

e)Bar 31—this is the pinnacle of the piece: there are 2 things: hitting the notes quickly enough AND hitting the right notes.

f)Bars 32-34-accuracy is sometimes an issue

That is just the first two pages. But the second half of the piece should be less problematic than the first. (I think)...

So my focused practice is to focus on all those issues and try to improve them...

Top
#2131337 - 08/11/13 05:03 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
zrtf90 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/29/12
Posts: 2458
Loc: Ireland (ex England)
My update for the week...

Grieg Trolltog, 54/3.
I started joining the hands on Tuesday. (Praying won't save you. Ed.) This was a little tricky in M22-29. The RH wanted to synchronise on the downbeat instead of the upbeat but the trolls are skipping here, not marching. This needed thinking time between each quaver for a couple of days but it's coming together now (that's one or two seconds between quavers for a couple of practise sessions not a couple of days between quavers). I did bar by bar then two bars at a time and that seemed to work.

HS has flowed this week @ 120 except M40-47 in LH (leaps up to a tenth in octaves) so these bars are being isolated and M30-70 is consequently in sections for both LH & HT but as one section for RH. I can play both pages without the score now HS & HT.

This week I'm memorising the middle section, M71-123. It divides readily into four passages and each was memorised yesterday and today so I should be without the score before the end of the week. There are no technical difficulties here.

Mon-Fri
M71-86, M87-96, M97-112 and M113-120 HT (mem.).

M40-42, M44-47 practise 2, 3 and 4 notes/octaves at a time, LH only, no time (tech.)

M22-30 one quaver per second (sync.)

M48-55 slow, not looking at keys.

Maybe not every day
M1-39, M48-70 HS @ 80, 100, 80 (accuracy)
M42-43 and M46-47 in isolation to land well on the chords.
M1-30; M30-39; M56-70 HT @ 30-60 bpm (co-ord.)
_________________________

Brahms Ballad in D minor.
It's been a hard week with all that listening but this week is listening & analysis. Ah, the variety!
_________________________

I progressed my other Grieg pieces but did no more than refresh the memory of Bach's Little Prelude in C, BWV 933, Scarlatti's K.531 and the Andante from Beethoven's sonata Op. 79. I did no more than a couple of minutes on each this week as my time has been in demand elsewhere. My repertoire piece was TraĂĽmerei and I stretched the time of the climax chord and reduced the dynamics so as not to disturb the reverie.
_________________________
Richard

Top
#2131346 - 08/11/13 05:31 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
casinitaly Offline


Gold Supporter until March 1 2014


Registered: 03/01/10
Posts: 5305
Loc: Italy
Valencia and Richard - I had fun looking at the scores for your Grieg pieces and seeing exactly what you are talking about.

Valencia and CarlosCC - both in the recital now ! Yippee! I look forward to hearing your pieces.

Richard - looking at your score--"the trolls are skipping, not dancing" -- I have quite an image in my mind's eye! Compared to what comes before it, the section M70-120 look comparatively "easy" (all things being relative of course!)

I first heard Traumerei in one of the ABF recitals and fell in love with it. It is definitely a goal for me to play that ... I don't know when... but I will!
_________________________
XVIII-XXXV
Everything's too hard until you make it easy. Follow your teacher's instructions and practice wisely/much, and you'll soon wonder how you ever found it hard ;)-BobPickle
Performance anxiety: make it part of your daily routine and deal with it...Cope! zrtf90

Top
#2131520 - 08/12/13 02:40 AM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
torquenale Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/29/12
Posts: 368
Loc: Italy
I think I can try and report on my progress during last week (Monday to Sunday).
The big goals:
1) Bach Sarabande: I wanted to have the second part done HT slowly -Ok;
2) Mozart Fantasia in d minor (my crazy project): measures 21-31 and 63-70 slowly HT - ok; measures 55-62 HT faster - better but still not at tempo; measures 78-85 HS - ok; improving the first two prestos - I did but I can't quantify it and I am still so far...
Other "minor" goals were improving phrasing and dynamic and tempo in Bach's Gavotte and Polonaise, and working on the hard part of my Schumann: I did, but I can hardly see any difference. I am also working on a nice little contemporary piece (Let's Handel by Michael Proksch), and it is improving.
Big fails of the week:
1) review Invention 15: I did only the first half, and it sucks...
2) to study the score of the Sarabande in order to separate the voices as my teacher told me.

Overall, this sort of scheme really works for me because it helps me to stay focused. On the other hand, it's the only period of the year when I have much time and energy to dedicate to practice, and I can't honestly say which is the main contributor to my progress.
_________________________



Top
#2133776 - 08/16/13 09:46 AM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: torquenale]
SwissMS Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/11
Posts: 853
Loc: Switzerland
It is Friday reporting time! It sounds like everyone is making progress with their Grieg pieces and a lot of them are already submitted! Uh oh, the pressure is on! My teacher returns from a month vacation Monday, so I will get whipped into shape. grin

1) I thought I was finished with Melody 38 3, and I submitted it. My teacher reviewed the video though, and had a thing or two to say frown. So I may resubmit. We will have my first lesson on it Monday.

2) Valse impromptu. Hmm ugh. I still need to get the tension out of my thumb at speed. It is better, but not there yet. I need to resist my impatience and keep this slow and relaxed until Monday's lesson. I have a passable recording, but I want better!

3) Bach Inv 6 - HT through A and first half of B, fully memorized, completed. This week I will combine the last of it. I love this piece!

4) Liszt Cons 3 - I have lost my focus on this piece. I have recorded it, and I think I will let it rest for a while.

4) Streabbog - Orphan - Finished, posted to piano bar.

5) Burgmuller - Swallow - memorized. This is such a fun little piece, with constantly crossing hands. It is blazing fast, but I am not yet. I will continue trying to slowly bring it up to tempo this week

6) Tchaikovsky June - Begin A section HS in chunks. Work out RH fingering for big reaches!
_________________________


Working on ABRSM Grade 6
European Piano Party July 4, 2015 in Switzerland!

Top
#2133856 - 08/16/13 01:30 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
casinitaly Offline


Gold Supporter until March 1 2014


Registered: 03/01/10
Posts: 5305
Loc: Italy
I love reading what everyone else is doing ! Thanks for sharing !

Well, am getting used to my red dot. I'm not recording every single day - but for sure every second day. It is indeed making a difference.

I got an ok recording of my Grieg piece earlier this week. Just "ok"..... Today I got a GOOD recording - one I could go with , but ....I'm inclined to do a bit more work on it and I am certain I can make it just that much better.

I have also been bringing my fughetta up to a peppier speed --- which has brought out some new rough spots...so this week I will be backing off a little, focussing on the new rough spots and then trying it all together.

Evening in the meadow I've got the left hand chord pattern memorized now except for the last 6 bars or so - I want to get that down pat. I notice I still fumble a little on the melody line in 2 points so I will dedicate time to those.
I'm still playing it fairly slowly, but it is smoother than a week ago and that is good.

Fly me to the Moon has been somewhat neglected so I will have to dedicate my time to becoming more certain of the 7th chords in the bass and the arpeggios in 2 spots.

My Austrian tunes are limping along ..... This coming week the other pieces will get shorter bursts of attention and these will have longer spans of time dedicated to them.

My difficulties in the Austrian tunes are to have different patterns in LH and RH.... they are only 8th notes and quarter notes, but what can I say... that's what is tricky for me!
_________________________
XVIII-XXXV
Everything's too hard until you make it easy. Follow your teacher's instructions and practice wisely/much, and you'll soon wonder how you ever found it hard ;)-BobPickle
Performance anxiety: make it part of your daily routine and deal with it...Cope! zrtf90

Top
#2133865 - 08/16/13 01:53 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
PianoStudent88 Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/16/11
Posts: 3206
Loc: Maine
I was doing great until -- I can't even place quite what -- I hit a roadbump this week and have barely practiced. I've learned a few more measures on my Bach Prelude which pleases me a great deal, but I haven't touced my Grieg pieces at all. I could blame it on choir dress rehearsals and working evenings, but there's something else going on that I can't put my finger on. Not lack of focus, but I can't put a name to it. I think I need to cultivate some kind of feeling that is generous to myself whenever I sit down at the piano, whether I think I'm making progress or not.
_________________________
Ebaug(maj7)

Top
#2134352 - 08/17/13 01:25 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
Valencia Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 256
How is it going Pianostudent88? Sorry to hear you are having a struggle with the practicing. Is it that you don't feel you are making sufficient progress with some of your pieces? This often happens to me, and sometimes for what feels like long periods of time. It's frustrating. Maybe it's that the pieces need time to settle in the brain and hands?

For me this week, these goals took me about 1 hr to figure out. If I get them done sooner than in a week, I'll adjust them:

1. I wasn't getting anywhere with Peace of the Woods (Grieg) so I've decided for now that what I have is good enough for the recital. Luckily i already have a recording for it, and I think i will just submit that.

2. Sailors' Song (Grieg)-Don't yet know what to do to get this one in to shape. I'll figure that out today.

3. Chopin Prelude-focus on bars 29-32 hands together. This week I'd like to get bars 22-32 going HT.

4. Rach Prelude-Memorize bars 6-8. Play bars 6-8 and 14-21 through with metronome at about 52 per 8th note (?I think...need to go back and check). If i can, start memorizing 16-21.

5. Chopin Ballade-a) Memorize bars 153-157, then play through 126-157 memorized. b) bars 106-114, with a focus on bars 110-113 (just to play, I don't think I can memorize this).

Top
#2134642 - 08/18/13 01:53 AM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
PianoStudent88 Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/16/11
Posts: 3206
Loc: Maine
Valencia, thank you for your kind concern. I did feel a bit like I wasn't making progress; working with a very narrow focus on a few measures. But also I was really busy in the evenings this week (and tempted by watching baseball when I wasn't busy). Tonight I ended up with a good chunk of time and had a lovely practice. I have actually made progress, and I've started several new sections (and a whole new piece, to boot) and feel good about them.

Maybe I just needed some time away from practicing to renew my perspective.
_________________________
Ebaug(maj7)

Top
#2134681 - 08/18/13 05:16 AM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
keystring Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11851
Loc: Canada
The last goal I wrote was this:
Quote:
Grieg doesn't vary it at all. I noticed that a few performers made it sound interesting rather than blah. All of them do something interesting with timing. They stretch some notes (like rubato), make some things a bit faster. I'm trying to hear what they are doing and make sense of it. Then experimenting (to make sense of it). Then if I can figure it out...

That's where I was. The piece is in ABA form, it's supposed to be sad about "things gone". The A sounded like it was dragging. If I sped it up, then it was inappropriately jaunty. But if I tried to stretch the notes like I described, it simply sounded out of control. I thought I was never going to get it. Well, apparently I got it.

So the next goal is to try to finish the piece.

I also worked on understanding my digital better (that's why I had the input on soft pedal earlier). Now I know how soft pedals work, and how on my DP it barely does unless I use a choice of piano which cuts out some of the tones which then destroys loud low sounds. frown I'm realizing that you have to know what you're working with, and what you can and cannot do with them. I was blissfully using the soft pedal assuming it was doing something, and never really checking what it does do (not much).

Top
#2134713 - 08/18/13 07:55 AM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
casinitaly Offline


Gold Supporter until March 1 2014


Registered: 03/01/10
Posts: 5305
Loc: Italy
Pianostudent88, glad you got over the hump that was holding you back. Keystrings interesting to learn more about your pedals - I've been doing the same thing since you posted on the "pp" thread I started a few days ago! Valencia - I admire you for taking on Sailor's Song - it is a great piece, but not simple!

Overall things are going well but I find that the "tricky bars" of my fughetta are haunting me. (The ghost must have escaped from my Grieg piece!)...... I thought they were set in my brain, but they aren't.
I have tried going slowly, super slowly, super-duper slowly. It
is mostly the left hand that isn't working, but not only.

I think the problem is that instead of having a half note and 2 quarter notes in the RH, there is quarter, half , quarter,
while in the left there are 8 quarter notes.

I don't really understand why I find this so challenging.
It is driving me a bit mad.

Other works are coming along well. My focus for the coming week is going to be on refining the Intermezzo of my Grieg piece a bit more. Beating the challenges in the Fughetta, slow practice of the second half of the 1st Austrian tune (the second has been abandoned).

I want to record Evening in the Meadow again for a check on fluidity. I'm playing it at slow tempo, and I think it is ok. I have the left hand memorized and that's important for hitting the block chords. If it all comes together I'll up the tempo a little bit. If not... more practice at this tempo.

Fly Me to the Moon needs more focused attention - I've been "playing" too much and not studying enough.

_________________________
XVIII-XXXV
Everything's too hard until you make it easy. Follow your teacher's instructions and practice wisely/much, and you'll soon wonder how you ever found it hard ;)-BobPickle
Performance anxiety: make it part of your daily routine and deal with it...Cope! zrtf90

Top
#2134748 - 08/18/13 10:01 AM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
zrtf90 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/29/12
Posts: 2458
Loc: Ireland (ex England)
Originally Posted By: casinitaly
Overall things are going well but I find that the "tricky bars" of my fughetta are haunting me...I thought they were set in my brain, but they aren't.
I'm glad things are generally going well, Cheryl, but it's frustrating how many times we have to learn the same day's extract before we truly get it, isn't it? It really does feel like Groundhog Day!

Originally Posted By: casinitaly
I have tried going slowly, super slowly, super-duper slowly.
I cannot find this score on IMSLP and don't know the piece so specifics aren't available.

As a counter to the slow playing ( smile ) try this:
Take a small extract - hopefully the trickiest bit (though I'm not sure if this is one area or a recurring rhythmic pattern) and put your hands in position with the fingers holding down the last notes from the previous (easier) bit.

1) Check what the next notes are and what fingers are required to play them. Be thorough and check every note and finger but once they're known rush quickly to the next step.

2) Check to see if any of the current notes are to be released or whether some are tied. Again, be thorough but once you're done rush quickly to the next step.

3) Position your fingers over the next keys or mentally prepare the change if those fingers are already holding down the current note(s). This is the most important step because it will make or break the next one. Take as long as you need over this, checking and rechecking each finger and making sure it's ready to do its job. Remember it's this mental application that makes piano playing difficult! Once it's done though, and you're sure you're going to get it right, rush once again to the next step - there's no time to lose here. You can't stop and make phone calls or grab a bite to eat!

4) The tricky bit - take your time over this bit, it's the time up to it and after it that needs to be quick. Simultaneously play the next notes and release the previous ones (not the tied notes, of course). It doesn't matter how long you spend on this step as long as it happens in an instant and that it's right. While you're learning the piece it won't hurt to slightly lift the non-playing fingers just enough that they're not touching the keys.

5) Don't pause for breath when you play the notes but check immediately that all the right notes played and none of the wrong ones. If it didn't work repeat the previous steps (from 1 to 4 but no more than them) and try again. When you get it right it's worth it to re-inforce these last few steps by repeating them a few times but once that's done move without hesitation onto the next note(s) and rush headlong onto the new step 1.
This rushing is crucial for the method to be successful!

It sounds, and is intended to be, a little tongue in cheek but, seriously, it really is crucial to spend time on each step and to rush between steps and not rest on your laurels. When you're doing it right what you hear may not seem like music but once the brain "gets it" it needs to spend very little time on it and the steps really do start to fly. You don't get progressively quicker, you go from having to think about it (seconds between each note) to it being automatic (fractions of a second between each note); close to zero BPM to about 60 bpm, just like that!

The difficulty really is the patience and care required for the brain to 'get it'.

Originally Posted By: casinitaly
It is mostly the left hand that isn't working, but not only.
For me, it's six of one and half a dozen of the other with a bit of pedalling foot thrown in. smile

Originally Posted By: casinitaly
I don't really understand why I find this so challenging.
It is driving me a bit mad.
Me too! It's not as if takes ten years or something to master this instrument, is it? smile
_________________________
Richard

Top
#2134749 - 08/18/13 10:01 AM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
sinophilia Offline

Gold Supporter until Sept. 05 2014


Registered: 06/26/12
Posts: 1022
Loc: Italy
We had 4 days off around the 15th of August (public holiday) and I didn't spend much time at the piano, anyway I managed to practice a bit.

So I have the Clementi at 80 bpm - a bit slower than it should be but it sounds okay and to be honest I'm sick of it!
My Bach minuet is acceptable at 100 bpm, although it turned out much more difficult to make it sound nice with the left hand doing the most important part. It's so stiff and unable to get the dynamics right! It's been a good exercise but I don't think I can do better right now.

Three days ago I started another nice 1-page piece, a sarabande by Corelli, and I have the first half to tempo. I should be able to finish it off by the end of next week.

Then I started seriously with my long-term piece (Chopin - ouch) and I spent several half hours on it. This will need a lot of work but it's so rewarding to play such beautiful music.

All in all, I'm quite happy with my routine. My progress is excruciatingly slow but it's okay, I'm enjoying every minute of it smile
_________________________
Diana & Wally - Yamaha W110BW
Martha Argerich... is an incarnation of the artistic metaphor of the "eternal feminine" that draws us upward. (Sergio Sablich)

Top
#2134753 - 08/18/13 10:06 AM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: sinophilia]
malkin Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/18/09
Posts: 2754
Loc: *sigh* Salt Lake City
Sino--did you abandon the Stravinsky?

I am moving so slowly on the Largetto that any less progress would be completely stuck! I am working HS to 'get' the melody--still!! After weeks I can finally sort of hum some sections of it. The most interesting thing about this particular work is that it is difficult cognitively and I can only work on it for very short periods of time.
_________________________
A good student is one who makes the teacher feel like a good teacher.

Top
#2134806 - 08/18/13 11:59 AM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
casinitaly Offline


Gold Supporter until March 1 2014


Registered: 03/01/10
Posts: 5305
Loc: Italy
We enjoyed the same holiday as you Sinophilia , but I guess we're more "stay at homes" than you are, as I got lots of piano time in! smile
Both you and malkin seem to have made some nice progress.

Richard, I've printed out your suggestions and will give them a try! My challenge is that I (so far) can't rush these notes or I mess them up. Perhaps I just have to do the mental preparation A LOT MORE, to make it work.

I don't know , but I really love this piece and want it to work. And darn it...I'm almost there!!!

Don't worry about me resting on my laurels, I have to earn them first!
.... and just as an aside: Italian university graduates are called "laureati" - and they actually get a laurel crown to wear! I haven't been to a grad ceremony so I don't know if this happens as they get their degree, or if it is after with their friends, but it is really charming.
_________________________
XVIII-XXXV
Everything's too hard until you make it easy. Follow your teacher's instructions and practice wisely/much, and you'll soon wonder how you ever found it hard ;)-BobPickle
Performance anxiety: make it part of your daily routine and deal with it...Cope! zrtf90

Top
#2134811 - 08/18/13 12:20 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: malkin]
sinophilia Offline

Gold Supporter until Sept. 05 2014


Registered: 06/26/12
Posts: 1022
Loc: Italy
Originally Posted By: malkin
Sino--did you abandon the Stravinsky?


No, not at all, but I am really just skimming over it, using it mostly as sight-reading exercise - although of course I cannot really sight-read most of it! I'm currently on number 4. These pieces are so weird!


Cheryl, we actually stayed home too, but there's so much to do out in the garden now that it's not so hot anymore... plus we had a Ferragosto party with neighbors and friends.

I didn't get a laurel crown to wear on my head when I graduated, but as most people I got a laurel wreath to put around my neck after the ceremony smile


Edited by sinophilia (08/18/13 12:22 PM)
_________________________
Diana & Wally - Yamaha W110BW
Martha Argerich... is an incarnation of the artistic metaphor of the "eternal feminine" that draws us upward. (Sergio Sablich)

Top
#2134955 - 08/18/13 04:59 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
zrtf90 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/29/12
Posts: 2458
Loc: Ireland (ex England)
Sunday night is FOYD night for Mr Terse!
smile

Grieg Trolltog 54/3
The middle section is memorised and easy enough so I'm without the score now and can concentrate more on the first two pages.

I kept up with M40-47 and had intended just doing the LH octaves but I couldn't keep to that. The LH is fairly comfortable in M30-39 without needing to be watched so I can shift my gaze during M39 to put the RH in position for M40 ahead of time. This makes HT much simpler and I can manage a good error free tempo if I stick to one measure at a time and even faster cycling a half bar at a time. It's the biggest jumps that are awkward. I have to go from M38 because the transition into the octaves is the hardest part but this passage is quite workable now in HT but even HS this is half the speed of M30-39.

I didn't play M22-29 every day but the sticking point was, again, the transition to the LH octaves and this has also become smoother now and the crescendo is building up with a little ritard creeping in.
____________________

Grieg Gangar 54/2
Grieg Berceuse 38/1
Grieg Springtans 38/5
Gangar still has slow passages requiring some co-ordination. The ornamental notes do not lie well in my fingers and needed some difficult fingering changes in order to accommodate them and these are harder but ultimately achievable. They would never have been fast enough as written. It is in eight sections but the other two are in three and two sections respectively and are in the preliminary recording phase with no remaining difficulties.
____________________

Brahms Ballad in D minor 10/1
I've done my analysis and I start going though it bar by bar at the piano from tomorrow looking at fingering, technical difficulties and distribution of notes between the hands. That's likely to take until Wednesday so Thu and Fri I start actual practise or I may use the time to plan my schedule and section order as I'll have a better idea of what problems I'll be facing.

This piece is a dialogue between Edward and his mother after he returns home stained with blood. The mother asks questions in the Andante sections while the boy answers in the piu mosso sections that he's killed his hawk or his horse. In the Allegro the boy finally admits that he's killed his father and in the fraught exchanges blames his mother and curses her.

There are several crescendos starting where all the dynamic markings are FF and one passage marked sempre FF. I'm not sure exactly where the biggest climax of the piece needs to go just yet.

There is far more dramatic potential here than in his duet, opus 75/1.

The harmony is fairly simple and the patterns are readily identifiable and easy to remember.
____________________

Handel Sonatina HWV 585
A lovely piece, easier than a Bach Invention. I added in some ornaments this week and tried not to let them interrupt the delicacy flowing through the piece. I started this piece six months ago, this was its sixth week but it has not been a high priority and only taken a few minutes each day.

Scarlatti Kp. 159
Only just started. I memorised the first page this time last month but my syncopation wasn't flowing in M4-12. M9-12 is better now but M4-8 is still iffy. I've to fix this before turning the page.

Schubert Standchen
I want to finish the easy version of this before I go on to Liszt's more famous version. I believe both piano transcriptions are the work of Liszt and there is little difference in the main part of the serenade but one verse is rendered in LH and the coda is more elaborate. This week I've just focused on the syncopation (syncopation again, is this coincidence or trend?) at the start of the coda.

Fauré Romance Sans Paroles 17/3
My repertoire piece this week and a former ABF recital piece (my first). I'm playing it more slowly these days (the new piano has reverb) and a little more expressively.
____________________

My other pieces for the coming week will be Bach's Sinfonia 11, Scarlatti's Kp. 443, Chopin's Prelude No. 2 and my repertoire piece is Bach's Invention No. 1. The last few times I revisited this piece I tried the triplet version so I'll be continuing that. I'm avoiding playing the regular one until I've finished the conversion.
_________________________
Richard

Top
#2134956 - 08/18/13 05:01 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
zrtf90 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/29/12
Posts: 2458
Loc: Ireland (ex England)
Originally Posted By: casinitaly
Richard, I've printed out your suggestions...
I am a curse on trees!
smile
_________________________
Richard

Top
#2134963 - 08/18/13 05:10 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: zrtf90]
casinitaly Offline


Gold Supporter until March 1 2014


Registered: 03/01/10
Posts: 5305
Loc: Italy
Originally Posted By: zrtf90
Originally Posted By: casinitaly
Richard, I've printed out your suggestions...
I am a curse on trees!
smile


I use recycled paper, and I print on both sides, and after I use the paper for crafts with my students smile

As for your list above, I took a minute to look up the Handel piece and the Scarlatti - and now I'm listening to the Stanchen...I had to look up that word - (it means Seranade) - and it is a beautiful piece.

I am astonished, honestly, at the number of works you have on board! All of which seem to be very elaborate and challenging - and beautiful!

I hope we get to hear some of them later!
_________________________
XVIII-XXXV
Everything's too hard until you make it easy. Follow your teacher's instructions and practice wisely/much, and you'll soon wonder how you ever found it hard ;)-BobPickle
Performance anxiety: make it part of your daily routine and deal with it...Cope! zrtf90

Top
#2134980 - 08/18/13 05:40 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
zrtf90 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/29/12
Posts: 2458
Loc: Ireland (ex England)
Originally Posted By: casinitaly
I am astonished, honestly, at the number of works you have on board! All of which seem to be very elaborate and challenging - and beautiful!
I skip the elaborate and challenging bits. smile

I'm spending time on the Grieg pieces for sure. The Brahms Ballad isn't piano time yet. The rest are only two or three minutes a day. I do a slow run through maybe once or twice a week (sometimes only HS) then only a few bars a day.

Originally Posted By: casinitaly
I hope we get to hear some of them later!
The Grieg pieces will be up around September 15. The Brahms Ballad on November 15.

The rest, I fear, may be no more than transient vibrations in the ether as I satisfy my selfish desires for entertainment.
_________________________
Richard

Top
#2134985 - 08/18/13 05:48 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: zrtf90]
casinitaly Offline


Gold Supporter until March 1 2014


Registered: 03/01/10
Posts: 5305
Loc: Italy
Originally Posted By: zrtf90
I skip the elaborate and challenging bits. smile



Ah, well, I wish I'd thought of that earlier, my repertoire would be amazing by now! smile


I knew we'd hear the Grieg soon - and I'm delighted that the Ballad will be available in November, after reading your description I think it will be wonderfully dramatic!
_________________________
XVIII-XXXV
Everything's too hard until you make it easy. Follow your teacher's instructions and practice wisely/much, and you'll soon wonder how you ever found it hard ;)-BobPickle
Performance anxiety: make it part of your daily routine and deal with it...Cope! zrtf90

Top
#2134988 - 08/18/13 05:53 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
dynamobt Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/07/13
Posts: 739
Loc: NH
I have three movements from Beethoven Sonatas to work on for the next two weeks. I've lost a week of the three weeks I had by still having to work on my second Grieg piece to get that recorded. Now that's done. So, my goal will be to read through each movement, locate the difficult sections and start my focus on those. My goal is to have something to play of each different movement. Not to really "play" them, but enough to have something to work on in the lesson. I want to keep my goals modest. These are the first Beethoven Sontatas I have worked on. I'm a little scared. But also motivated.
_________________________
1918 Mason & Hamlin BB





Top
#2135099 - 08/18/13 11:06 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
PianoStudent88 Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/16/11
Posts: 3206
Loc: Maine
dynamobt, may I ask which sonatas? That's very exciting!
_________________________
Ebaug(maj7)

Top
#2137182 - 08/22/13 01:21 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
casinitaly Offline


Gold Supporter until March 1 2014


Registered: 03/01/10
Posts: 5305
Loc: Italy
Well, some structured practice sessions paid off this week. It seems, perhaps, that tricky segment in Fughetta has been conquered. I think. It was hard to rush through it Richard, but after several runs through it, it started to get easier. We will see how it is after 2 weeks with no piano! (vacation is imminent!!!)

For Fly Me to the Moon, FINALLY the left hand chords seem to be coming more naturally, more spontaneously.

My Austrian tune has improved marginally - but I like it the least and work on it the least, so what can I expect? smile

Evening in the Meadows is coming along very well. I have it almost memorized (from sheer repetition!) - the challenge now is evenness with the left hand - I play a block chord with pedal and hit a note almost immediately in almost every bar. Sometimes I still land too heavily.

I have noticed a global relaxation and reduction in tension in my arms, hands and shoulders - which is great.

I have tried getting new recordings of my Grieg piece but it hasn't come out as well as I would like --- I've improved quite a bit on the intermezzo but I'm having trouble getting a coherent performance that I love. ....but I feel it is possible - it could happen. I hope before heading out on holiday but if not...maybe when I come back I'll be fresh and ready to let it flow from my fingers.

I plan on bringing several of my pieces with me, and a manuscript notebook for working on writing them out by memory. I find that this can really settle the pieces in my mind.
_________________________
XVIII-XXXV
Everything's too hard until you make it easy. Follow your teacher's instructions and practice wisely/much, and you'll soon wonder how you ever found it hard ;)-BobPickle
Performance anxiety: make it part of your daily routine and deal with it...Cope! zrtf90

Top
#2137454 - 08/22/13 10:09 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
AimeeO Offline

Silver Supporter until Jan 04 2013


Registered: 05/20/10
Posts: 803
Loc: New Orleans
I'm still getting back into the swing of regular, concentrated practice!

Consecutive Hanons are coming along slowly. It is a lot of work, and I'm noticing lazy fingers if I try to speed it up too fast. I'm starting to get through 5-8 at 60 bpm error free, so I'm trying to bump up 1-4 to 70, and will keep getting 5-8 down at 60.

We're dredging up a piece I've worked on previously.. Mozart 545. My teacher uses it as a teaching tool off and on, and we're pulling it back out. It's interesting to go back to older stuff from time to time and try to improve on it. It's never been up to speed, or perfect by any means - or even completed. This week's goal is to clean up the first half of the 1st movement. I forget what awesome exercise that piece is!


We use the Suzuki books as "new" weekly repertoire. We start a page a week. The music in those books is fantastic(just have to check other sources from time time time dynamic-wise - they tend to leave some out). So, last week we started on first movement of Clementi's 36 no 3. Goal for this week is to get measures 1-13 somehat faster, and to be able to get through 13-26 at a slooow pace. The trills are terrifying.

Might try to get a Grieg recording or two in, too. I might try to get just audio for now, and if I'm feeling super confident I'll go for video closer to the recital. I think I'm really close, but I'm still not crazy about how I handle measures 12 and 22.

Top
#2137526 - 08/23/13 03:35 AM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: AimeeO]
SwissMS Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/11
Posts: 853
Loc: Switzerland
I really like this thread. It is fun to see how everyone approaches their practice, and I learn a lot from everyone!

I spoke with my teacher about a technique issue I still have. My hand is too flat, and I tend to hold my thumbs too far away from my fingers, especially when playing fingers 4 and 5. As a result my hand is out of balance, and it is limiting my speed and accuracy. So, we are going to take a step back and I will play easier repertoire for a while to focus on trying to correct this problem. She wants me playing pieces that are close to sight readable and can be learned quickly, so my focus can be on correct movement. So, the Tchaikovsky is going back on the back burner and I am beginning some Kuhlau and Heller.

So, my Friday report:

1) Grieg pieces are done. I found Valse Impromptu difficult to make cohesive, but with some suggested changes from my teacher, it feels much better. This has been a real learning experience. My aberrant thumbs are very apparent in this piece!

2) Chopin Waltz in A minor is in the polishing stage. My goal for this week is to finish memorizing it.

3) Bach Invention 6. Memorized HT through A and 1/2 of B. My assignment is to polish this and bring it up to tempo this week before combining the last portion.

4) Exercises: Thumb "push ups". This is playing the thumb while all fingers fully relaxed resting on the keys, and then rolling the thumb up vertical and back down, maintaining relaxation. Secondly, five finger position, playing and holding each finger while maintain no movement and complete relaxation in the other fingers.

5) Heller Etude in C Op 47 #19. Learn HS, assuring relaxed hand position, especially those unruly thumbs.
_________________________


Working on ABRSM Grade 6
European Piano Party July 4, 2015 in Switzerland!

Top
#2137527 - 08/23/13 03:40 AM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
casinitaly Offline


Gold Supporter until March 1 2014


Registered: 03/01/10
Posts: 5305
Loc: Italy
I really like this thread too !

I find it interesting that both SwissMS and Aimee0 are talking a step back to help work on technique. I wonder what my teacher will have to say to me ...still several weeks before we meet up. I'm noticing that my right thumb seems to spend a lot of time in the air...

SwissMS - I'm wondering if you might be inclined to make a small video to demonstrate the thumb exercise you just described? I can't quite picture it?
_________________________
XVIII-XXXV
Everything's too hard until you make it easy. Follow your teacher's instructions and practice wisely/much, and you'll soon wonder how you ever found it hard ;)-BobPickle
Performance anxiety: make it part of your daily routine and deal with it...Cope! zrtf90

Top
#2137536 - 08/23/13 04:18 AM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: casinitaly]
SwissMS Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/11
Posts: 853
Loc: Switzerland
Here you go, Cheryl. Since I am just learning this myself, it comes with a disclaimer. My teacher would probably correct my technique smirk.

_________________________


Working on ABRSM Grade 6
European Piano Party July 4, 2015 in Switzerland!

Top
#2137541 - 08/23/13 04:41 AM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
casinitaly Offline


Gold Supporter until March 1 2014


Registered: 03/01/10
Posts: 5305
Loc: Italy
Wow, talk about quick reponses! Thanks very much SwissMs, now I get it.

I have done the five finger exercise, but not the thumb one - and what I think is the hardest is keeping my 4 and 5 fingers from involuntarily springing up in the air!

Today I was practicing my scales, which (ahem, pretending to be ashamed, but just acknowledging guilt)...I have neglected over the past several weeks. I am going to have do really work on them before I see my teacher again or he's going to know for sure!!!
_________________________
XVIII-XXXV
Everything's too hard until you make it easy. Follow your teacher's instructions and practice wisely/much, and you'll soon wonder how you ever found it hard ;)-BobPickle
Performance anxiety: make it part of your daily routine and deal with it...Cope! zrtf90

Top
#2137544 - 08/23/13 04:57 AM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
sinophilia Offline

Gold Supporter until Sept. 05 2014


Registered: 06/26/12
Posts: 1022
Loc: Italy
How interesting SwissMS! Thank you!

Is it Friday already?!? Well I haven't practiced today yet, but I think I'm on track.

I recorded Clementi's Arietta and found out that when the RH plays loud, my LH remains soft (and it shouldn't!). I'll keep playing it every day to improve the dynamics and see if I can achieve that light brilliant touch that it requires. Since I'm comparing myself to Pianist magazine's Chenyin Li recording, it will be a hard job.

I have Corelli's Sarabande almost to tempo and it's really lovely, with two tiny trills. Will probably need another week to get a recording.

I started the third minuet of Bach's Suite in G minor and was quite amazed to see that I no longer find it difficult to figure out the different rhythms in the two hands from the very beginning (obviously at a super slow tempo). I guess I'm reading better and it helps. I'm pretty sure this will take at least 2 or 3 weeks tough, as it's another Allegretto...

Speaking of reading, I picked up Bartok's Mikrokosmos again and went through the first half of Volume I as sight-reading exercise. Then as it gets more difficult I will use these pieces as "quick studies".
_________________________
Diana & Wally - Yamaha W110BW
Martha Argerich... is an incarnation of the artistic metaphor of the "eternal feminine" that draws us upward. (Sergio Sablich)

Top
#2137898 - 08/23/13 06:13 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Valencia]
Valencia Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 256
Hi Everyone!

This week I’ve had a lot of significant pain in my right wrist, and several days I didn’t even play. For Peace of the Woods, the more I listen to my recording, the less I like it. However getting another recording seems even less likely now with this hand pain.

For other pieces:

1.Sailors Song-haven’t played it much because of the pain. I think I will have to modify the bigger chords so that they don’t hurt my hand. This week I’ll aim to play the piece through and maybe get a preliminary recording of it.

2.Chopin Prelude-last week i only got through 4 bars. This week i'll do another 4- bars 25-28.

3.Rach Prelude. I memorized bars 6-8, but will have to memorize 16-21 before trying those bars with the metronome. So memorization of that section is what I’ll work on this week. If I get it done I can put the metronome to it.

4.Chopin Ballade-I memorized bars 153-165, but didn’t work on the other bars I’d planned because of hand pain. This week I’ll keep playing through the scherzando by memory, and also try to memorize 166-179. That’s probably too many bars to memorize, so I’ll just see how far I get.

5.Beethoven, Op 27/2 3rd mvt-How did I get myself into this? My goal this week is to break this piece into sections for learning, and memorize bars 1-13. My work on this piece probably won’t last as there are already so many impossible pieces on my plate. It’s just that every once in awhile I get a bit obsessed with wanting to learn one of Beethoven’s sonatas.

6.Ocean-My goal this week is to come up with a plan for how to work on this piece for (consistent)accuracy at increased tempos. It’s memorized and I can play it through, but how to increase the tempo and maintain accuracy? Probably need to use the metronome in a series of steps. (I'm not looking to play it at tempo, but would just like to get as fast as i can manage).




Edited by Valencia (08/23/13 07:50 PM)
Edit Reason: changed mind about prelude

Top
#2138064 - 08/24/13 02:25 AM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
Bobpickle Offline

Gold Supporter until July 10  2014


Registered: 05/24/12
Posts: 1383
Loc: Cameron Park, California
Nice goals, Valencia. Be sure and ask for help if you experience persisting wrist pain as there are quite a few knowledgeable and philanthropic members around - it's never something you want to ignore.

Top
#2138106 - 08/24/13 05:47 AM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
sinophilia Offline

Gold Supporter until Sept. 05 2014


Registered: 06/26/12
Posts: 1022
Loc: Italy
Valencia, that's an impressive set of pieces! Is it the first Chopin Ballade you are working on? Wow! I listen to it almost every day and can't get enough of it.
_________________________
Diana & Wally - Yamaha W110BW
Martha Argerich... is an incarnation of the artistic metaphor of the "eternal feminine" that draws us upward. (Sergio Sablich)

Top
#2138747 - 08/25/13 12:16 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
Allard Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/27/12
Posts: 342
Loc: Netherlands
I initially avoided this thread since, uh, I don't really make goals and just do whatever I fancy at the moment. That more or less worked, but it means I hardly get anything done when I don't feel like playing, for whatever reason. Lately these reasons have been the hot weather, complaining neighbours and the piano being out of tune and making annoying noises. Well, she's getting tuned next week, so no more excuse for slacking!

Last week, inspired by CarlosCC's awesome recital performance, I decided to get my own version of Life up to shape. This involved replacing a section that I don't have the technique for (and won't be able to get in the near future). I tried a few alternatives and settled on one that I like. I've then played the piece through once a day over the last few days, with my balcony door open. Should be ready to record soon smile

I've also been working on another David Lanz song: Return to the Heart. It's an upgrade from the simplified version I learned a year ago. I can play half of the song reasonably well and have been focussing on one trouble section. The other trouble section needs work - I tend to get distracted by the inviting look of the first three pages.

Next week, then, I have several goals and even something akin to a plan!

My piano is getting tuned Wednesday morning. Monday and Tuesday I plan to work on the troublesome fourth page of Return to the Heart. Life can use another playthrough to make sure it flows well with the new section.

Wednesday is going to be busy. I want to make recordings of Life and a short Final Fantasy song I've been working on: Waltz de Chocobo. Assuming that goes smoothly, there should be plenty time left to shoot a few dozen takes on Grieg 43.3 for the recital. I haven't attempted to record it yet, so fully expect to find and have to work on some trouble spots.

Then in the weekend, I can finally start the homework my teacher gave me before summer, lol. He gave me his Clementi 6 sonatinas book. I tried the first one, but it sounds beyond awful with the way my piano sounds now. Going to give it another chance. Assuming it doesn't sound completely demoralising anymore, I'll do the first movement and take a look at the second.
_________________________
David Lanz - Where the Tall Tree Grows
Nobuo Uematsu - Aerith's Theme (Final Fantasy VII Piano Collections)

Top
#2138760 - 08/25/13 01:10 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
jotur Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 5659
Loc: Santa Fe, NM
Thanks for the video, SwissMS - nice to see new ways of learning things.

I'm trying to get a couple of reels up to tempo for a Scottish party the band's doing in October. The tempo in and of itself isn't really the problem, and with the lead sheets I actually do fine. But I'd really rather play by heart. That's more complicated.

With the lead sheets we have for Scottish a dance pianist named Paul Machlis (who also plays new age now and has some albums out) decided on the chords maybe 30 years ago. So since the whole band is playing I need to play mostly the same chords the other backers are playing. And, while they're not random, and they sound good, they're still not the "obvious" progression, so I just have to memorize them :\ I pay attention to how they sound, so I have that in my ear, but I then can't play the chords in any other inversion, either, since what I hear is the bass line I've come up with.

I also pay extra attention to tension. There isn't any when I'm reading the lead sheets, because then I don't have the extra step of having to think about what comes next. But knowing the tune well enough that it just trips out of my mind is a different story. There are reels I know that way, but these are three new ones, and we're not likely to play them again for another couple of years. I'm thinking about adding a 15 minute mini set of traditional music to my seniors program so that I play them more often.

I sometimes play just the melodies so that I do get that familiar with them, and could just sit down and play them anywhere on the piano.

But the hardest part is playing the chords everyone will be playing :\

Cathy
_________________________

Top
#2138949 - 08/25/13 07:43 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
zrtf90 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/29/12
Posts: 2458
Loc: Ireland (ex England)
My Sunday night FOYD update.

The Grieg Recital is looming and tension is mounting.

Grieg Trolltog 54/3 (5 days x 30-40 mins)
M40-47 has been the bugbear. The leaps are long for the speed and accuracy required. The bottom octave suffers if I watch the top end and the tempo and RH suffers if I watch both. Slowing down, on the other hand, causes the piece to lose its sparkle so my main concentration has been looping M40-43, slowly enough to be easy and accurate, in half bar, full bar, two bar and four bar cycles then join them onto M38-39. I have to repeat that for M44-47 and join onto M43.

The final chords in M43 and M47 are just different enough to aggravate. I have to remember to move my index finger to play the chord in M43 as 1-2-5. 1-3-5 was too much of a stretch while in M47 I have to remember the extra jump to A but maintain 1-3-5. Finger memory doesn't work here. Ah, me!

I see why my dictionary lists Grieg between grief and grievance.

The rest of the piece is just getting easier. It was a doddle to memorise, easy patterns, memorable lines and no surprises, so I'm able to do a good bit on my desk at work.
______________________

Grieg Gangar 54/2 (5 x 10-15)
I've put the long crescendo together from M40 to M80 and it sounds promising.

M25-40 is deceptively difficult. The pesky little RH chords need a lot of concentration to get right. The thumb can lay over for the adjacent keys but the index finger is stretched after 3 & 4 play the semiquavers before them. Remembering which chords use the layover while remembering the LH chords is very draining. I need to watch the keys too so using the score is out and I've been without it for a while now anyway. This section needs to be automatic. How long have I got? Tick-tock, tick-tock.

M1-26 is Ok but I didn't work on this section this week.

I've still got M80-84 and the coda hanging like stragglers but they're done and there's not much to them so they'll be appended easily.
______________________

Grieg Berceuse 38/1
Grieg Springdans 38/5
I didn't work on either of these this week. I needed a rest from them but I played through both yesterday and today, complete (first time for Berceuse), and they're better for the break. I should be able to start recording soon. In fact, I need to start recording soon!
______________________

Brahms Ballad 10/1 (3 x 10-15)
I've gone carefully through the score now and identified the difficulties, which are not that great, and I've played M1-26 from the score in the past so it should be easy enough to do eight measures from the first page and four from the second each week. I didn't actually start practising this week but I have a schedule drawn up.
______________________

Bach Sinfonia 11 (4 x 10-15)
M17-25 is this week's two handed spat. I'm playing M1-36 HS daily and M36-73 periodically and they're very close to being memorised but I'm playing very few of the ornaments just yet. I like to get the main notes in on their own first so that I'm aware of what I'm trying to decorate. I can keep the metre better that way and I tire of too much melisma in Baroque music on modern instruments though it works well in this piece; it's very like a sarabande.
______________________

Scarlatti Kp. 443 (4 x 5-10)
There are no technical obstacles in this piece. I'm on the development section, M55-73, and remembering the fingering is harder than remembering the notes!
______________________

Chopin Prelude 28/2 (4 x 2-5)
A very short, one page piece with no technical hurdles. The difficulty is covering (and touching) the LH notes before they're played (for precision) and relaxing as soon as they're down to avoid heaviness. Remembering the sequence in M9-12 while playing the RH is exhausting (the page looks ugly and it's hard to tell which note pair I'm on).

I'm spending most of my time on the LH chord changes and securing the memory. I expect to finish this piece like the number 6 before it with little time on the rack but long weekend reviews without the score.
______________________

Bach Invention 1 (2 x 2-5)
I love this piece and I love this version but I've been too fatigued most days this week to do much on it and I don't want to be half-hearted about it. I may continue this next week and move it further up the order.
______________________

I'm keeping up with the Grieg again this week, of course, and the Brahms. My 'other' pieces will be Bach Invention 1, triplet version; Scarlatti Kp. 87 and Schumann Child Falling Asleep Op. 15/12. I should do another Bach piece but I'm 'working' on Bach in my repertoire piece. The Grieg stuff is preventing me from varying many classical or Romantic pieces - but not for much longer.
_________________________
Richard

Top
#2141391 - 08/30/13 01:42 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
Valencia Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 256
Bobpickle, thanks for the note about the wrist pain. smile It’s a little better this week but I’ll see how this next week goes. I’m trying to stay away from pieces that might make it worse right now. I’m not sure if it was caused at the piano or not, but piano can definitely aggravate it if i'm not careful.

Sinophilia
, yes it is Chopin’s 1st Ballade. smile but while my goals may look impressive, pieces like Ocean and the Ballade are still largely out of my reach. But I just can’t seem to help taking on at least some of those pieces to study. I was inspired to try the Ballade after seeing Sam Rose play it. I may never be able to play it like he does, but I wanted to try to learn it anyway.


This week has been a strange one practice-wise. I spent much of it going through Beethoven’s sonatas, trying out various movements and imagining what I might like to play. My mother had some serious medical issues this week so that was on my mind making it difficult to focus intensely on my regular practice. Here is what I got done along with next week’s goals:

1. Sailors’ Song—got a recording of it, so at least now I’ve got something. Recorded this when I found out my mum had to go into the hospital but before we knew exactly what the situation was, when I thought I might have to leave here and go to stay with her for awhile. So, it’s not a great recording, but it’s a recording!

2. Chopin Prelude-I got through bars 25-28, now I will add them to 21-24 and 29-32. Mostly I’m just trying to get the notes into my fingers.

3. Rach Prelude-Wow this is difficult to memorize. :\ I only got through bars 17 and 18 this week. And they are not solid. Next week I’ll keep reviewing 6-8, 16-18 and also try 19-21.

4. Ballade-I had to go back to the scherzando because even though I memorized the last bits of it last week, it didn’t all stick. I’ll go through it a few times this week just to make sure that it in my head. I want to move forward with other parts of this piece but it takes so long to memorize solidly. I might look at some of the bars after the scherzando and try memorizing parts of them away from the piano using the score. I’ve done this in the past and it’s helped.

5. Beethoven-Op.79-Andante: I like it and want to learn it. Will start with bars 10-16. May need to consult with others about how to do the trills in bars 13 and 14.

6. Beethoven-I went through bars 1-14 of the Moonlight 3rd (by memory) though I’m a little shaky from 9 on fingering wise. I’ll try it again this week and maybe add 15-20. Also want to look through the piece and find the parts that will be especially hard so that perhaps next week I can pull those out and start working on them. I’m still not sure that I will commit to learning this entire piece right now.

7. Beethoven-Op. 2 No. 1 1st mvt-Another piece I am considering learning and so trying on this week. I’ll listen to the piece, look through the score and think about how to divide it up for learning.

8. Ocean-I usually have so much fun practicing this, but this week it was a bit of a mess. For metronome work, I will start at half time (so 40 per half note) and see if I can handle that. My practice on this one must be somewhat limited or I will drive my downstairs neighbour crazy.

9. Next recital piece?-What will I play for the next ABF recital? There are a couple of pieces I was working on before that are on the backburner. Maybe I can start one of those. Or I could pick a new piece learnable in 3 months time. I’ll give thought to this.


This looks like a lot, but much of it is just reinforcing work (memory or otherwise) that I’ve already done, or exploring pieces that I might like to play.

Top
#2141434 - 08/30/13 03:07 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
sinophilia Offline

Gold Supporter until Sept. 05 2014


Registered: 06/26/12
Posts: 1022
Loc: Italy
So, I haven't practiced much this week, since I had a lot of work and spent the rest of my time thinking about pianos blush

Corelli's Sarabande is memorized and recorded. Such a lovely little piece.

I haven't spent much time on Bach's minuet but the first part is almost okay; will start the second part tomorrow and then try to speed it all up. This looks similar to the other two minuets I learned so it may be a little easier, but another 2 weeks will be needed.

I'm sight-reading volume I of Bartok's Mikrokosmos and I can see how much easier it is than some months ago. Next week I should be done with it.

I also managed to record a jazz piece from Alfred's book 3 that was giving me headaches. I just had to imagine I was playing it on my future acoustic piano... grin
_________________________
Diana & Wally - Yamaha W110BW
Martha Argerich... is an incarnation of the artistic metaphor of the "eternal feminine" that draws us upward. (Sergio Sablich)

Top
#2141479 - 08/30/13 05:46 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
JimF Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/08/09
Posts: 1828
Loc: south florida
Hello all you FOYDer's. I've been following along somewhat since day one, but have avoided getting involved because I really didn't need another thread to spend lots of time on, and because I felt that I usually practice in a pretty focused way.

Lately, however, I'm increasingly finding myself looking back on recent practice sessions and wishing I had done them differently. Invariably the problem is trying to accomplish too much, either in that one session, or in a series of sessions prior to some perceived or real "deadline".

I've actually come to the conclusion that my biggest problem is setting these little goals or deadlines...you know the type... "get page one hands together by next lesson"....that sort of thing. It is so deadly because it puts the cart before the horse. I know this but time after time I've been guilty of it, so I need to come here, confess my sins, and get to work just focusing in on that day's task. Where it ends up at the end of some artificial time period is whereever it ends up. And if I focus every day, that spot is going to be better than if I let the "goal" control how I practice on any given day.

Don't know if this ramble makes sense to anyone else, but it does to me. So, I'm in.

Tomorrow is Saturday, so time for about 3 hours:

No more than 20 minutes without a 2-5 minute break.

1. warmup play MacDowell, scale of week Db 4oct 16ths @ 88bpm for quarters with shift to triplets and back, hanon exercise scales in legato chromatic minor thirds-slow.

2. Mozart - LH block chords for g-minor section, RH last page phrases, one at a time. HT Page one, first time HT meas.7-8, review 1-6, try 9-10, all super slow, no errors allowed.

3. Puccini - page 2 and 3 block positions for LH arpeggios, also as written. page 1 HT super slow meas 8-16, review 1-8.

4. Stella by Starlight lead sheet - meas 1-8 LH 7th chord seven note arpeggio pattern

5. have fun on a standard out of Coates book.
_________________________
Nessun dorma - G.Puccini
Solfeggietto - CPE Bach
La Fille aux cheveux de lin-Debussy



Estonia L190 #7284





Top
#2141536 - 08/30/13 08:18 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: JimF]
aTallGuyNH Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/22/12
Posts: 509
Jim, that made perfect sense to me, FWIW.

That seems like a very reasonable list for three hours.

For me, I've been (mostly) lurking too. I've probably had three hours or so of bench time total -- much of that being little chunks of a few minutes here and there, constantly interrupted -- in the past 5 weeks, so it's tough to do much in the way of goal setting in those circumstances.

Back in January I kept a log of my playing sessions, it was a rare time when I was fairly disciplined about what I was doing and how often. Total average daily bench time? Just over 20 minutes.

Right now I'm feeling slightly incredulous that I've ever learned anything (and yes,that is 50% frustration and 50% patting myself on the back).

Overall, I need to focus on rhythm. That's nominally my only goal, but I also don't want to embarrass myself at the Mason & Hamlin piano tour on 9/9, and I'd really like to play something or another adequately for Boston Street Pianos in late Sept/early Oct (I work down there -- so it's inevitable that I'll wind up at a piano with some coworkers), and I'm trying to keep "Song #2" for my wife under my fingers even though I've stopped progressing on it for a couple months. So... I'm not a happy camper at the moment.


Edited by aTallGuyNH (08/30/13 08:29 PM)
Edit Reason: fixed over-inflated # of dry piano weeks, it's been 5, not 6.
_________________________
"...when you do practice properly, it seems to take no time at all. Just do it right five times or so, and then stop." -- JimF

Working on: my aversion to practicing in front of my wife

1978 Vose & Sons spinet "Rufus"
1914 Huntington upright "Mabel"

XXIX-XXXII

Top
#2141606 - 08/30/13 11:53 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
Bobpickle Offline

Gold Supporter until July 10  2014


Registered: 05/24/12
Posts: 1383
Loc: Cameron Park, California
I've had a similar summer, aTallGuyNH. My problem was that I couldn't help but look at problems as respective wholes instead of break them down into small digest-able parts. As a result, I'd always feel overwhelmed and end up doing nothing. Obviously this is the wrong way to go about overcoming any challenge (the antithesis of the idiom, "one day at a time"). My teacher prescribed to me a simple plan of practicing three different things relevant to my goals for just 10 minutes apiece daily (something literally anybody could find or make time for) and from that, I rekindled my practicing. Perhaps trying to stick to a similarly basic and facile structure might help you to rekindle your practicing too.

Top
#2141690 - 08/31/13 07:27 AM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Bobpickle]
SwissMS Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/11
Posts: 853
Loc: Switzerland
Valencia - That is an impressive list of pieces to work on. I hope your hand pain resolves quickly! I know how frustrating that can be.

Allard - It sounds like you have quite a few things on the go. Good luck with your recordings.

Jotur - It must be fun and challenging to coordinate with other band members in playing a new piece from lead sheets. Your ear has to be really tuned to the other players. Good luck with your memorization.

Richard zrtf90- I am impressed by the number of projects you keep on the go all of the time, in addition to maintaining repertoire. You set a great example.

JimF - I love the Coates books! I do most of my sight reading and just playing for pleasure from Dan Coates arrangements.

Here is my report and my goal setting for next week.

1) Grieg Waltz Impromptu - Focus on ornaments. The 4-5-4 inverted mordants are not clean and do not "snap" the way I want. I am not transferring weight to 5 well enough. I hope to get one more recording with improvement in this area.

2) Bach Inv. 6 -"A" section I can do 7X through without error at tempo. I still have a couple of sticky places in 1st 1/2 for "B" section. Stay with this another week until I achieve 7X correct at tempo.

3) Kuhlau Sonatina - My goal for the week was to learn and memorize the first movement. That turned out to be over ambitious. The movement is learned, but not memorized and I have some sticky places. Goal this week is to work on the runs and sticky spots and finish memorization. Goal: 7X accurate at 2/3 tempo.

4) Heller 47 #19. This is being utilized as an exercise to improve technique. Continue slow play with good positioning.

5) Villa- Lobos. This week I listened to recordings with the score and read through hand separately. The goal for next week is HT 1st two pages memorized.

6) Telfer - Rivers Flowed on Mars - This is another piece for technique. The goal for this week is to continue working slowly with good legato.

7) Repertoire maintenance - Spend a minimum of 20 minutes per day playing memorized pieces.

9) Start sight reading 20 minutes a day again. I let this slip for a couple of months.
_________________________


Working on ABRSM Grade 6
European Piano Party July 4, 2015 in Switzerland!

Top
#2141799 - 08/31/13 12:14 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
zrtf90 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/29/12
Posts: 2458
Loc: Ireland (ex England)
Welcome, Jim. I hope this thread helps you as much as it's helping me.

I've been updating my journal every week with progress and next week's goals since I've been back at the piano so I didn't think the thread would help me all that much but having to collate my thoughts for public consumption makes me think a little more about them and I've found better focus and sometimes better solutions - just by having to 'think out loud' so to speak.

Valencia, you and I briefly discussed the Chopin Ballad in a PM a while ago and now you're listing it on your FOYD update. This is rekindling the spark and I may have to make time for another crack at this myself.

SwissMS, thank you for the compliment! I notice your own list is not too brief or shabby even though you're rather cagey about your eighth goal! smile

On a personal note, going back to sight reading for 20 mins a day would make me want to drop it! I think a shorter time every day is enough to keep it a habit and continue growth. I've also found doing it first helps me because the brain is very fresh and it's different music every day. It's a nice way to start the day's practice using the brain but not tiring it from repetition.
_________________________
Richard

Top
#2141852 - 08/31/13 02:40 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
jotur Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 5659
Loc: Santa Fe, NM
Wow, a lot of you folks have far more going on than I do laugh I've found that trying to get 2 hours of focused practice in a day is not very easy for me, even broken up in chunks. Maybe with practice I'll work up to it.

But this week I've started adding riffs and varying basses to many of my "by ear" and song book melodies, filling them out and making them lusher. I was pleased that some of the riffs translated easily from one key to another, and sometimes they came out altered a little in their rhythm, so that added some variety. Much easier to do this spontaneously than trying to memorize such minute changes in the score laugh I don't envy you folks playing classical.

I've also payed attention, again, to "ease" in playing, so the musicality comes across with more fluidity. That is such a key for me to play anything, both in public, and by heart. If there's no musicality, phrasing, no story to tell, I can't remember a thing, much less play dance music at tempo.

Cathy
_________________________

Top
#2142151 - 09/01/13 07:44 AM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
JimF Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/08/09
Posts: 1828
Loc: south florida
Well, yesterday's practice went ok, but I needed more time than I expected for almost every item on my list. So I'm going back at it today with no change to the tasks...determined to NOT move on just because I can already feel Tuesday's lesson approaching.
_________________________
Nessun dorma - G.Puccini
Solfeggietto - CPE Bach
La Fille aux cheveux de lin-Debussy



Estonia L190 #7284





Top
#2142185 - 09/01/13 09:44 AM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
griffin2417 Offline

Silver Supporter until Dec 29 2012


Registered: 12/12/10
Posts: 2465
Loc: Minneapolis, MN

Okay, I know this is the thread that is right for me! Earlier this year I decided to quit doing postings on the PWF because it was taking too much time away from my limited time for piano practice. FOYD coincides very nicely with my piano studies.

Earlier this week I made a commitment to myself to write some weekly goals beginning today. That's when I realized that this thread is the perfect place to post my goals, and get some ideas for my practice routines. It also has the wonderful benefit of being in touch with some my friends from RST and meeting new folks as well!

I'll be back a bit later today with my goals, and what I'm working on. I gotta go practice to determine what those goals will be! smile
_________________________
Carl


Top
#2142186 - 09/01/13 09:46 AM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
PianoStudent88 Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/16/11
Posts: 3206
Loc: Maine
I've been sporadic in my practicing, but I'm still plugging away at my three Grieg Lyric Pieces. I've progressed from solely doing small sections to doing run-throughs, and then returning to the sections that the run-throughs show need work. Truth be told, I know what those sections are before the run-through, but I've been itching to make music beyond the ongoing focused work on small sections.

I find I discover musical decisions about the piece from playing through the whole thing that I'm not able to discover just by studying the score.

I've learned a lot from working on these pieces (octaves, arpeggios, 2 against 3, clever hand movements), but I find that for the most part I don't really like Romantic-era music (Chopin excepted), so I won't be sorry when these are recorded and I can turn my attention to other pieces.

I've been neglecting the Bach Little Prelude. I have most of the notes memorized HS. A few more measures to go, which are being harder to make stick in my head. Patience and repetition are needed, I guess.

Next goals: continue the Lyric Pieces. Pick Bach up again.

[ETA: After hearing a lot about him, I'm now reading through Graham Fitch's Practicing The Piano blog. Here's a timely post on Top Ten Tips for Trouble Spots.]


Edited by PianoStudent88 (09/01/13 10:01 AM)
_________________________
Ebaug(maj7)

Top
#2142249 - 09/01/13 12:39 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
keystring Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11851
Loc: Canada
I've been dead in the water for a week. I freelance, and work comes unpredictably. Have been working round the clock. During some breaks I've been running through my head what I want to do with the Grieg. I take breaks every 2 hours or so, when I do exercises and a bit of housework (more exercise) and during those times I'm listening to something. It's been stuff dealing with the Renaissance, for music history. I may be able to get back to piano mid-week.

Popping into PW helps in not feeling as shut out from music. If you see me post too much, that's procrastination from work. laugh

Top
#2142292 - 09/01/13 02:31 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
sinophilia Offline

Gold Supporter until Sept. 05 2014


Registered: 06/26/12
Posts: 1022
Loc: Italy
keystring, are you a translator/interpreter? I've had tons of work too this month, hoping for some respite tomorrow as soon as the last job is delivered!
_________________________
Diana & Wally - Yamaha W110BW
Martha Argerich... is an incarnation of the artistic metaphor of the "eternal feminine" that draws us upward. (Sergio Sablich)

Top
#2142301 - 09/01/13 02:48 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: sinophilia]
keystring Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11851
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: sinophilia
keystring, are you a translator/interpreter? I've had tons of work too this month, hoping for some respite tomorrow as soon as the last job is delivered!

I only translate these days. Sometimes I miss teaching until I remember the same kind of woes they talk about in the teacher forum.

It's interesting just how many musicians and music students work in languages or are good in language, and how many people working in languages have quite a background in music. The two must be related, as is often said.

Top
#2142419 - 09/01/13 06:38 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
zrtf90 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/29/12
Posts: 2458
Loc: Ireland (ex England)
How wonderful to see you on the thread, Griffin, and hear that you're getting some practise in! smile

So, my brief Sunday night FOYD update...

Recording has taken up most of my time this week but I have three acceptable recordings in the bag. I still have Trolltog to do and I'm under pressure for it. I only really have the week ahead but it isn't quite ready.

The RH in M40-43 descends from D to E and ends on a chord using 1-2-5. In M44-47 it descends from Bb but instead of ending on C it jumps down a third to A and ends on a chord using 1-3-5. I can play the measures up to tempo HS though the octave leaps are up to a tenth and big for the tempo. By aiming my little finger for the upper octaves and my thumb for the lower ones it's workable without much eye movement but when I put hands together remembering to jump to Bb in RH and D in LH for M44 (instead going to D for both as my hands want to do) takes too much brain capacity while I'm juggling the eyes for the octaves and there is consequently quite a large drop off in speed. It's also difficult to remind myself of the skip to A using 1-3-5 instead of settling on C using 1-2-5.

There is no mechanical difficulty here. My hands can do it. It's a reserve of mental capacity that I need by either increasing finger memory or finding a more efficient mental plan, like working out where exactly I need to prepare the leaps to Bb and D in the different hands without it being too soon that I forget by the time I get there or being too late to make it work. It seems trivial but the devil hides in the detail!

There's no way I'm going to be able to do this in the time so my quandary is whether to slow everything down just for this section, maintain a slower tempo throughout, drop to RH alone for this section or compromise the score somehow (and there's a variety of ways to do this). I may try recording all the ways and pick the least offensive!

I'll continue to work on just M40-47 (M38-48) this week while I chase a decent enough recording and I have to refresh my memory of the middle section. The rest of it is all OK but this piece will stay on my pile until it's done. It's a shame it won't make the recital at a better level.

I have limited time on this piece and spending two hours a night on it will simply waste about 90 minutes a day so I need to do all my other pieces as well though I can use both of these last two weekends (and have just used this one).

Brahms Ballad Op. 10/1.
M1-8 was memorised easily enough and just has to be played carefuly until it's automatic.
M26-30 was easier than I expected despite the crossed hands and I got up to M32. This has to be kept very quiet as there's a lot of dynamics to come after it and I can't afford to run out of steam too quickly. Keeping it quiet really adds to the excitement as the figure has a lot potential for dynamic and emotional tension with the soft hammering and the two against three rhythm. I can feel it building up to something and I want to increase the intensity with the slow rise in pitch. I want to get on with it but I must exercise great restraint!

I have settled on a climax in M44 right in the middle of a page turn so I've rewritten M41-46 in manuscript to memorise the phrase independently. That's my aim for the week ahead.

Bach Invention 1
The recording has again left this hanging over so I'll move on next week and come back to this as a new piece after the Grieg recital maybe instead of waiting for it to come round again in my repertoire section.

Benda Sonatina in A minor
I was going to start Scarlatti's Kp. 87 after finishing Kp. 149 recently but I got a delivery of sheet music on Monday including Benda Sonatinas on Ganddalf's recommendation (for my son) and Glière Op. 43 after hearing Riddler in the ABF Recital (for me). I read through the Benda book as far as number 3 and stopped there. I've added this. It was easy to memorise and much of it is already up to speed but it's such a blast to play.



Child Falling Asleep
Schumann, Kinderszenen, Op. 15/12. This looks trickier than it is but simple note redistribution between the hands simplifies it enormously. There are no difficuties at all and it's not too hard to remember. The tune is lovely, of course, and I've been humming it regularly which helps.

Anyone who's nursed a child to sleep in their arms knows that infants wake easily until they've given that big sigh that precedes the soft and steady breathing that signals full sleep and they can be laid down. I love how Schumann has uses E minor with a fitful RH figure to suggest the restlessness that precedes slumber and that big soft E major chord in M9 with a new relaxed figure in RH, rhyming with the LH and announcing the arrival of sleep. Gorgeous!

So the week ahead is recording Trolltog and getting back to more regular practise - till the next themed recital. My repertoire piece is Schubert Scherzo in Bb and my other pieces are Bach Little Prelude BWV 933, Scarlatti Kp. 531 and Beethoven Andante Op. 79/3.
_________________________
Richard

Top
#2142421 - 09/01/13 06:44 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: zrtf90]
jotur Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 5659
Loc: Santa Fe, NM
Originally Posted By: zrtf90
There is no mechanical difficulty here. My hands can do it. It's a reserve of mental capacity that I need by either increasing finger memory or finding a more efficient mental plan, like working out where exactly I need to prepare the leaps to Bb and D in the different hands without it being too soon that I forget by the time I get there or being too late to make it work. It seems trivial but the devil hides in the detail!


I'm going thru this (yet again) on review of an older piece at this very minute (yet again) so I know the feeling (yet again) smile

Life's relentless, huh.

Cathy
_________________________

Top
#2142524 - 09/01/13 10:15 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
griffin2417 Offline

Silver Supporter until Dec 29 2012


Registered: 12/12/10
Posts: 2465
Loc: Minneapolis, MN
Hi everyone. Good to hear from you, Richard. smile

Here are my goals for this week:

1. Clair de Lune (Debussy) - My goal this week is to memorize and record measures 15-26 and analyze. I already know that I will have to do some focused efforts with measures 23 and 24. My biggest challenge is to play very slowly to make sure of accuracy, and particular attention to the dynamics. My teacher and I will be talking about this piece later this week. I've been working on this piece in very small doses since 2011. However, now that I'm retired and have significantly increased my practice time, my teacher is noticing major progress and thinks it's time to start preparing to perform this for some small informal groups.  

2. Prelude in D-Flat Major, Opus 28, No. 15 (Chopin) - My goal this week will be to review measures 60-75. My goal is to isolate the weakest measures and break them into smaller parts for practice and recording. I will be reviewing this with my teacher later for additional ideas.

3. Gymnopedie 1 (Satie) -  Yup!  I'm bringing this one back for additional refinements after I performed it as a work in progress for the Erik Satie themed recital last year. It's now time to memorize it. I'll get into more of the details next week after I've had a chance to review the parts I'll give focused attention to.  It's not my highest priority right now, however.

4. O Holy Night (Dwight and Adams) arranged by Dan Coates - I plan to record this and a few more Christmas songs over the next few months. I will be more detailed next week on my specific goals. I just need to make sure it's listed and not lost in the other things I'm doing.

That's it for now. I'm sure glad this thread was started.  I've already seen a lot of good ideas that I am starting to use. I will post my goals each Sunday, as well as some updates. I will check in daily, however.   Have a great week everyone!



Edited by griffin2417 (09/01/13 10:18 PM)
Edit Reason: Clarification
_________________________
Carl


Top
#2142557 - 09/01/13 11:07 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: griffin2417]
aTallGuyNH Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/22/12
Posts: 509
#23 & 24 aren't too bad once you get accustomed to them, you're just sliding up a bit, but the basic patterns are the same as the prior measures.

If I was forced at gunpoint to play two measures and two measures only, for the rest of my life, it would be #25 & #26. There's a whole world of possibilities in those 30 notes. Bliss...
_________________________
"...when you do practice properly, it seems to take no time at all. Just do it right five times or so, and then stop." -- JimF

Working on: my aversion to practicing in front of my wife

1978 Vose & Sons spinet "Rufus"
1914 Huntington upright "Mabel"

XXIX-XXXII

Top
#2142661 - 09/02/13 04:21 AM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
Allard Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/27/12
Posts: 342
Loc: Netherlands
Summer holidays are finally over, and tonight is lesson time. Yay!

I'll go over last week's goals and determine new ones after the lesson. Spoiler: I did not learn the Clementi sonatina whistle
_________________________
David Lanz - Where the Tall Tree Grows
Nobuo Uematsu - Aerith's Theme (Final Fantasy VII Piano Collections)

Top
#2142685 - 09/02/13 06:51 AM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: aTallGuyNH]
griffin2417 Offline

Silver Supporter until Dec 29 2012


Registered: 12/12/10
Posts: 2465
Loc: Minneapolis, MN
Originally Posted By: aTallGuyNH
#23 & 24 aren't too bad once you get accustomed to them, you're just sliding up a bit, but the basic patterns are the same as the prior measures.

If I was forced at gunpoint to play two measures and two measures only, for the rest of my life, it would be #25 & #26. There's a whole world of possibilities in those 30 notes. Bliss...


I agree with this TallGuy. I love playing #25 & #26. I did my precision work on these earlier. I think I am now more highly motivated to do the repetitive precision work I need to do on #23 & #24, because i'll feel immediately rewarded afterwards by getting to play 25 & 26. What a treat! smile
_________________________
Carl


Top
#2142738 - 09/02/13 10:02 AM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
malkin Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/18/09
Posts: 2754
Loc: *sigh* Salt Lake City
I have to focus to keep a completely relaxed left hand while playing a pattern that I can't quite reach. It is an octave (5-1) with finger 2 falling 'naturally' a third below the top. So if 5 and 1 are playing C, 2 needs to play A when it is really more comfortable down around F#. It is for one of the Stravinsky pieces. His definition of "Très facile" and mine don't really align very closely. For me, in fact some of these things approach 'Presque Impossible!"



Tension in the palm of my hand results in pain in the back of my wrist, so I'm not doing that!
_________________________
A good student is one who makes the teacher feel like a good teacher.

Top
#2142772 - 09/02/13 11:35 AM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
jotur Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 5659
Loc: Santa Fe, NM
malkin, I know whereof you speak. I made some passages like that at the beginning The Entertainer into 6ths, because not only could I not reach them, I certainly couldn't do them fast. That was my first recital piece, almost 5 years ago. Now I could reach them, but I still wouldn't be able to do them fast. And you are so right about the tension and the pain! I may never be able to do them fast, but I can still play without pain! Works for me.

Cathy
_________________________

Top
#2142851 - 09/02/13 03:05 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: griffin2417]
aTallGuyNH Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/22/12
Posts: 509
Originally Posted By: griffin2417
Originally Posted By: aTallGuyNH
#23 & 24 aren't too bad once you get accustomed to them, you're just sliding up a bit, but the basic patterns are the same as the prior measures.

If I was forced at gunpoint to play two measures and two measures only, for the rest of my life, it would be #25 & #26. There's a whole world of possibilities in those 30 notes. Bliss...


I agree with this TallGuy. I love playing #25 & #26. I did my precision work on these earlier. I think I am now more highly motivated to do the repetitive precision work I need to do on #23 & #24, because i'll feel immediately rewarded afterwards by getting to play 25 & 26. What a treat! smile



Do you mind sharing your fingering for LH on #19 through #23? I'm picking it up again after a lengthy break, and realizing that I never wrote down what I had done before. Can't seem to settle on what I like, but here's what I have at the moment (ignoring the octaves of course):

#19: 5-124-2-124-5
#20: 125x4-124-125
#21: 235-4-2-124-5
#22: 135x6
#23: 235-4-1-124-5
#24: 135x6-125-124

#22 and #24 I'm pretty sure about, but sharing them for sake of continuity.

Edit: #20 is pretty straightforward as well. It's the odd numbered measures that I've always found vexing.


Edited by aTallGuyNH (09/02/13 03:10 PM)
_________________________
"...when you do practice properly, it seems to take no time at all. Just do it right five times or so, and then stop." -- JimF

Working on: my aversion to practicing in front of my wife

1978 Vose & Sons spinet "Rufus"
1914 Huntington upright "Mabel"

XXIX-XXXII

Top
#2142861 - 09/02/13 03:17 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
Allard Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/27/12
Posts: 342
Loc: Netherlands
I decided to start the lesson (why am I the one making the decision?) with the Clementi sonatina, to get the un-fun out of the way first. I butchered the piece while sight-reading, since I couldn't stomach practising the piece for more than half an hour a week. Teacher thinks Clementi (and Czerny) are essential building blocks to learning piano. He understands I might not like this particular piece, so he proceeded to demonstrate 36.6 Allegro con Spirito. Yeah, that actually does sound better. It's also four times as hard.

After that I forgot everything else I had been working on during the summer and only played Return to the Heart, even without too many mistakes. Am I supposed to not feel like playing after the lesson? frown

Anyway, I did make decent progress with last week's goals. Waltz de Chocobo and Einaudi's "Life" are both residing on my hard disk, waiting to be edited and uploaded. Before the lesson I played Life with my balcony door open and got through almost perfectly despite the noise outside.

Recording multiple pieces on the same day was way more tiring than I expected, and I did not get as far with Grieg 43.3 as I planned to. I refreshed my memory on the notes and worked a bit more on the one difficult passage. Should be able to get something decent sounding this week.

Currently undecided whether I should just bite the bullet and learn Clementi 36.1 anyway, or aim for any other goals.
_________________________
David Lanz - Where the Tall Tree Grows
Nobuo Uematsu - Aerith's Theme (Final Fantasy VII Piano Collections)

Top
#2143168 - 09/02/13 11:19 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: aTallGuyNH]
griffin2417 Offline

Silver Supporter until Dec 29 2012


Registered: 12/12/10
Posts: 2465
Loc: Minneapolis, MN
TallGuy, I'd be happy to share my fingering for those measures. I didn't write mine out either. It wouldn't be any problem for me to do this, however. I will do it on Tuesday when I plan to do some slow practice on those sections.
_________________________
Carl


Top
#2143207 - 09/03/13 01:45 AM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
FarmGirl Offline

Silver Supporter until Jan 02 2013


Registered: 09/14/10
Posts: 2036
Loc: Scottsdale, AZ
This a good thread. I just have one question. I don't want to be rude but don't think I can comment on everyone's posting. Assuming its ok:

Mozart 2 pianos - I'm still working in this for our October recital. Will play with my teacher.
(1) Page 26 4th bar - John (SummerKeys teacher) suggested 6 note trills from the note above. It is slightly easier than 4 notes trills against 3 16th notes. Discuss with my teacher also another difference in trill interpretation for the trill for a 16th note. John says to start from the note and provide just 3 note with the note above since it is a very fast piece. I have been doing textbook style 4 note trills starting from the note above.
(2) need to practice last 2 pages more. Play left hand broken descending octaves with crisp staccato and octaves runs in legato using 4th fingers. Last page right hand still sloppy. Compare and contrast with the similar section. I know I was damn lucky that I ended correctly in the last performance.
(3) coordinate the dynamic in conversation type passages between piano 1 & 2 on Pages 26 and 30 - I think it's cool to use contrasting dynamic between two pianos.
(4) practice eye contact with piano 2 at key moments (beginning, after a long trill and whole measure rest etc)

Grieg - I could not work on it at all during Summerkeys sessions. just realized I have only 1 week to record. Worked on Summer's eve today. Not really a virtuoso speed but the fast runs are getting a bit faster. Worked on Puck a little then run out of time. I will not be able to achieve the real speed for Puck. Will try to play the best I can. Will practice this one first tomorrow.

Rach Elegie - haven't looked at it for a while. Tried the first coupe of pages. Still i can play as I did before, which is a good thing. At the same time I have to realize that I made no progress on this. Need to get this ready for October recital.
_________________________
Solo - Rachmaninoff Elegie Op 3 #1, Schumann Op 12 Warum, Grillen and a few short pieces by various composers
Collaboration - Concerto in C for Oboe and orchestra attributed to Haydn edited by Evelyn Rosewell and some duets


Top
#2143638 - 09/03/13 08:05 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
zrtf90 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/29/12
Posts: 2458
Loc: Ireland (ex England)
Clair De Lune (in case anyone missed this - I did for a little while)

In the interests of trying out more ways to find the most comfortable, here are my fingerings for this passage.

#19: 5-124-3-124-5

#20: 125x4-124-125 (same)

#21: 235-4-2-123-5

#22: 135x4-124-135

#23: 235-5-3-124-5

#24: 135x4-124-135-125-124
_________________________
Richard

Top
#2143643 - 09/03/13 08:10 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
zrtf90 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/29/12
Posts: 2458
Loc: Ireland (ex England)
I don't think it's rude not to comment, FarmGirl. Comments are fine to add if they're significant for you or you think they'll be helpful but participation is enough.

Seeing how others formulate ideas and plans can offer an incredible broadening of our horizons but just posting our own plans helps us subconsciously to focus on them and that is the essence of the thread. Just posting, then, is good for us and good for others.

We're not seeking feedback the way we might on AOTW. I don't even need feedback there. When something good happens, I just want to tell someone, anyone, it doesn't matter whether or not it means anything to whomever I tell, I don't need the feedback. I just need to tell someone.

The Grieg is a late piece. You might get in touch with your opus leader and sort out some kind of arrangement where they have a working link but can add an updated one later if you can improve upon it. I'm making such allowances for one or two in my opus who are having work or domestic related interruptions to their normal schedule.

Regarding your work on Puck, "Will try to play the best I can" is something that took me a lifetime and a day to realise but this is how we need to practise every single phrase, every single time and I've just come from the piano teaching my son this very thing when working on a two note fragment!
_________________________
Richard

Top
#2143711 - 09/03/13 10:45 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: zrtf90]
aTallGuyNH Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/22/12
Posts: 509
Originally Posted By: zrtf90
Clair De Lune (in case anyone missed this - I did for a little while)

In the interests of trying out more ways to find the most comfortable, here are my fingerings for this passage.

Hopefully others don't mind this tangent... if so, I'm happy to start another thread.

(I'm just realizing now that this is terribly confusing how I've written all this with each set in numerical order, when I should have done it left to right on the keyboard... Oh well, I'll stick with it for the sake of consistency)

That said, here are my thoughts:

#19: 5-124-2-124-5
#19: 5-124-3-124-5

Interesting. For me, switching fingers there is more likely to be the cause of a flub vs. the advantage of being able to pivot my hand around the 3 as it is playing the C. I'll have to give that a try.

#20: 125x4-124-125
#20: 125x4-124-125 (same)

GMTA, although it doesn't take a genius to work this one out. smile

#21: 235-4-2-124-5
#21: 235-4-2-123-5

The 124 vs. 123 is where I just can't seem to make up my mind.

On the 124, it's nice and comfy, but then moving from the Bb (4) to Gb (5) is not at all comfortable. I'm already doing that on #19, but there we don't have much choice (barring very large hands) given that the 2 is on the Eb. I think I'm over-thinking the legato here (see pedal comment below), and maybe I shouldn't feel like the 5 has to come down on the Gb while the 4 is still on the Bb?

On the 123, the 23 from Db to Bb is too much for me. Not that I can't reach, but I don't have good dynamic control [ever, but especially] when they are that far apart.

#22: 135x6
#22: 135x4-124-135

I definitely have a bias to maintain hand position and just slide over and back in this circumstance.

#23: 235-4-1-124-5
#23: 235-5-3-124-5

Are you relying on the pedal to hold the Bb & Db dotted quarters there? Or just truncating them to 1/8 notes?

I guess any pedal concern I might have is really pointless though... The reality is that I don't have a sostenuto pedal, so I'm holding the sustain down for 1/2 or more of each of these measures anyway in order to have the bass note sustained. frown

Extraneous stuff that can be skipped:
Click to reveal..
Interestingly, my edition gives absolutely no guidance re: fingering throughout this entire section, except that the middle note here (Eb, for those following along at home) should be played with #2. To me that's nuts though -- it doesn't buy anything other than putting one in the wishy-washy middle between our two approaches -- providing the disadvantages of both and neither of the advantages. I can't see a rational way to use #2 on the Eb without dropping the dotted quarters, and then having the jump anyway.

#24: 135x6-125-124
#24: 135x4-124-135-125-124

Same comment as #22.


Overall, I think this section was very sloppy when I tried to play it previously. I never did settle on a consistent strategy, with predictable results, so I want to finally put this to bed.

Interested to hear anyone's feedback... and yes, I see the irony of my earlier "hey, no big deal" comment to griffin. smile
_________________________
"...when you do practice properly, it seems to take no time at all. Just do it right five times or so, and then stop." -- JimF

Working on: my aversion to practicing in front of my wife

1978 Vose & Sons spinet "Rufus"
1914 Huntington upright "Mabel"

XXIX-XXXII

Top
#2143721 - 09/03/13 10:52 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: aTallGuyNH]
aTallGuyNH Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/22/12
Posts: 509
These sorts of conversations certainly would be easier with the score annotation idea that NeuralFirings posted about recently. For anyone who hasn't checked it out, it's worth a look.
_________________________
"...when you do practice properly, it seems to take no time at all. Just do it right five times or so, and then stop." -- JimF

Working on: my aversion to practicing in front of my wife

1978 Vose & Sons spinet "Rufus"
1914 Huntington upright "Mabel"

XXIX-XXXII

Top
#2143825 - 09/04/13 02:47 AM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
FarmGirl Offline

Silver Supporter until Jan 02 2013


Registered: 09/14/10
Posts: 2036
Loc: Scottsdale, AZ
Went dinner with my friends and did not have time to play too much.
(1) skipped scale & technique
(2) 10 min - just went over the problem spots of Moz
(3) 15 min -Grieg - Summer's eve again started out with this one. The cascaded notes are getting faster. Ready to play this tomorrow at the studio
(4) 5 min - Grieg Puck - Thanks Richard, i will make some sort of arrangement with my section leader - I will ask her how to gain speed in short amount of time in my lesson Friday.
(5) 10 min pianist magazine - sightreading Heller Étude op 45
_________________________
Solo - Rachmaninoff Elegie Op 3 #1, Schumann Op 12 Warum, Grillen and a few short pieces by various composers
Collaboration - Concerto in C for Oboe and orchestra attributed to Haydn edited by Evelyn Rosewell and some duets


Top
#2143841 - 09/04/13 03:53 AM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: FarmGirl]
sinophilia Offline

Gold Supporter until Sept. 05 2014


Registered: 06/26/12
Posts: 1022
Loc: Italy
Originally Posted By: FarmGirl
(5) 10 min pianist magazine - sightreading Heller Étude op 45


Nice! And nice to be able to sight-read it. Pianist magazine is my teacher right now, I'm doing almost all the beginner pieces. The hints and tips on the score are invaluable, as are the videos.
_________________________
Diana & Wally - Yamaha W110BW
Martha Argerich... is an incarnation of the artistic metaphor of the "eternal feminine" that draws us upward. (Sergio Sablich)

Top
#2143876 - 09/04/13 06:38 AM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
zrtf90 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/29/12
Posts: 2458
Loc: Ireland (ex England)
Originally Posted By: aTallGuyNH
#23: 235-4-1-124-5
#23: 235-5-3-124-5

Are you relying on the pedal to hold the Bb & Db dotted quarters there? Or just truncating them to 1/8 notes?
Neither. I looked more carefully at your fingering for the Ab and Eb but I actually play the initial Gb chord with 135 here, not 235 as in M21. Let's go through the steps:

M23
Gb major is played with 135; the Bb and Db are not dotted here as they are in M21 but they're held with 1 & 3 while 5 moves from Gb to Ab;
the Ab and Db are held until 3 has played the Eb;
the Eb is held until the 2nd inv. chord is down;
the Gb is held thru' the lower Bb but the upper Bb is released for the RH.

None of the notes are played short except where physically unavoidable but rather overlapped for a more cloying legato and a more secure keyboard awareness, even in slow motion, and not just in this measure but throughout the piece.

I don't use sostenuto anywhere in this piece - I learnt it on a pre-war upright - and don't use the damper pedal until M9. There are neither pedal nor finger markings in my edition, United Music Publishers, printed in January 1955.
_________________________
Richard

Top
#2143889 - 09/04/13 07:31 AM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: zrtf90]
griffin2417 Offline

Silver Supporter until Dec 29 2012


Registered: 12/12/10
Posts: 2465
Loc: Minneapolis, MN
Originally Posted By: zrtf90
Originally Posted By: aTallGuyNH
#23: 235-4-1-124-5
#23: 235-5-3-124-5

Are you relying on the pedal to hold the Bb & Db dotted quarters there? Or just truncating them to 1/8 notes?
Neither. I looked more carefully at your fingering for the Ab and Eb but I actually play the initial Gb chord with 135 here, not 235 as in M21. Let's go through the steps:

M23
Gb major is played with 135; the Bb and Db are not dotted here as they are in M21 but they're held with 1 & 3 while 5 moves from Gb to Ab;
the Ab and Db are held until 3 has played the Eb;
the Eb is held until the 2nd inv. chord is down;
the Gb is held thru' the lower Bb but the upper Bb is released for the RH.

None of the notes are played short except where physically unavoidable but rather overlapped for a more cloying legato and a more secure keyboard awareness, even in slow motion, and not just in this measure but throughout the piece.

I don't use sostenuto anywhere in this piece - I learnt it on a pre-war upright - and don't use the damper pedal until M9. There are neither pedal nor finger markings in my edition, United Music Publishers, printed in January 1955.




I don't think I can be very helpful after all, TallGuy and Richard. I was just about to post my fingerings when I noticed you both write them very differently than I did. Since I've never done this before, I'll assume I'm the one not following a certain convention in writing out fingering instructions. Perhaps I'll need help with this.

Let me give you an example of how I wrote #19:

5-531- 5-521-5

It looks like I'll have to go back to the basics of learning the standard convention of writing these things out.

I will be meeting my teacher tomorrow for my lesson. I will get his advice on how to write these. However, we won't be able to spend much time with it because we only meet a few times monthly.

In the meantime, if you think you can decipher what I wrote for measure 19, I'll send you the rest of my notes. Just let me know.

BTW, I do use my sustaining pedal when I play this. When I was a kid we used to call it a damper pedal.
_________________________
Carl


Top
#2143907 - 09/04/13 08:10 AM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: griffin2417]
aTallGuyNH Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/22/12
Posts: 509
Griffin... your way of writing them is correct IMHO. Mine were backwards, as noted in my last post. Please feel free to flip them for sake of comparison.

Richard... I have four editions from IMSLP, 3 out of 4, including the main one I rely on, have #23 as dotted. The 1905 original is not dotted. It's fairly academic for me since I've got the pedal down at that point anyway.

Without sostenuto, how long are you pedaling to maintain the dotted halves without blurring the rest of the phrase?
_________________________
"...when you do practice properly, it seems to take no time at all. Just do it right five times or so, and then stop." -- JimF

Working on: my aversion to practicing in front of my wife

1978 Vose & Sons spinet "Rufus"
1914 Huntington upright "Mabel"

XXIX-XXXII

Top
#2143916 - 09/04/13 08:43 AM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
zrtf90 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/29/12
Posts: 2458
Loc: Ireland (ex England)
Yes, Griffin, your way is right I was just adopting TallGuy's original.

With or without sostenuto, I've got the pedal down for the measure. It doesn't sound too bad to me but "without blurring" means not Debussy! laugh
_________________________
Richard

Top
#2143922 - 09/04/13 08:58 AM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: zrtf90]
aTallGuyNH Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/22/12
Posts: 509
Part of my aversion to holding the pedal for the whole measure is that my spinet does not hold its tune, so it sounds pretty awful when all those out of tune notes pile on top of one another.
_________________________
"...when you do practice properly, it seems to take no time at all. Just do it right five times or so, and then stop." -- JimF

Working on: my aversion to practicing in front of my wife

1978 Vose & Sons spinet "Rufus"
1914 Huntington upright "Mabel"

XXIX-XXXII

Top
#2143934 - 09/04/13 09:38 AM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
zrtf90 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/29/12
Posts: 2458
Loc: Ireland (ex England)
Pedal is specific to the instrument you're playing. There aren't universal on and off points.
_________________________
Richard

Top
#2143944 - 09/04/13 10:07 AM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: zrtf90]
keystring Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11851
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: zrtf90
Pedal is specific to the instrument you're playing. There aren't universal on and off points.

I was trying to find the post you were responding to, in order to get a picture of what kinds of on and off points you were describing, from the context. Do you mean the point at which the dampers lift as you press down?

Top
#2143952 - 09/04/13 10:26 AM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
zrtf90 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/29/12
Posts: 2458
Loc: Ireland (ex England)
I was responding to the post immediately prior, discussing Clair De Lune with TallGuy (and Griffin).

This:
Originally Posted By: aTallGuyNH
Part of my aversion to holding the pedal for the whole measure is that my spinet does not hold its tune, so it sounds pretty awful when all those out of tune notes pile on top of one another.

Whether or not to pedal and the on and off points themselves are specific to the piano you're playing.
_________________________
Richard

Top
#2143982 - 09/04/13 11:09 AM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: aTallGuyNH]
griffin2417 Offline

Silver Supporter until Dec 29 2012


Registered: 12/12/10
Posts: 2465
Loc: Minneapolis, MN
Originally Posted By: aTallGuyNH
Griffin... your way of writing them is correct IMHO. Mine were backwards, as noted in my last post. Please feel free to flip them for sake of comparison.


Great! Here are my fingerings. I'm sending them as I originally wrote them. Let me know if you have any problems understanding them. I'm glad to have this conversation about Clair smile .

#19
5-531 5-521-5

#20
521x4 531-521

#21
5-531-5 531-5

#22
521x4 531 521

#23
5-531-5 521-5

#24
531x6 521 531

As far as pedaling goes, I agree with Richard. It will all depend on which piano you are playing. I have a weighted keyboard that I practice on. My pedaling will be somewhat different than pedaling on other pianos (acoustic or digital).
_________________________
Carl


Top
#2144010 - 09/04/13 12:11 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
zrtf90 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/29/12
Posts: 2458
Loc: Ireland (ex England)
I've taken the Clair de Lune topic to it's own thread.
_________________________
Richard

Top
#2144436 - 09/05/13 02:43 AM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
FarmGirl Offline

Silver Supporter until Jan 02 2013


Registered: 09/14/10
Posts: 2036
Loc: Scottsdale, AZ
Very tired today.
1) puck -20 min left hand only with slow tempo first then at tempo
2) summer's eve -10 min. Practice the runs.
3) Mozart -10 min problem spot only. I found myself falling asleep while playing.
_________________________
Solo - Rachmaninoff Elegie Op 3 #1, Schumann Op 12 Warum, Grillen and a few short pieces by various composers
Collaboration - Concerto in C for Oboe and orchestra attributed to Haydn edited by Evelyn Rosewell and some duets


Top
#2145777 - 09/07/13 01:17 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
Valencia Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 256
Saturday, Sept.7-2013

Hi Everyone! I did not get in much practice this week so had to adjust my expectations about my goals.

1. Re-recorded Sailors’ Song for the Grieg recital. I’m disappointed that I didn’t get back to Peace of the Woods before recital time, but hopefully what I did do will be at least somewhat enjoyable to listen to.

2. Chopin Prelude- This week keep playing through bars 21-32. (no memory).

3. Rach Prelude-didn’t work on. This week review/memorize bar 6-8 and 14-21

4. Ballade-Glad you are inspired Richard! If you get back to it, I look forward to hearing about your approach to learning it. This week I took the score to the doctor’s office and on the bus and tried to memorize a few bars just using the score. (just RH or LH separately). This week memorize bars 166-173.

5. Beethoven-Op.2/1/1-plan to approach Op 27/2/3-Reviewed memory of bars 1-14 and started working through bars 15-33. Will continue with that this week.

6. Ocean-didn’t practice much. May give it more rest this next week.

7. Next recital piece?-Still not sure. something that doesn't hurt my RH.


Edited by Valencia (09/07/13 10:10 PM)

Top
#2145866 - 09/07/13 04:02 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Valencia]
SwissMS Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/11
Posts: 853
Loc: Switzerland
I have had a pretty good practice week, and can see some progress towards my goals.

1. Grieg pieces - I did a final recording of Melody that I am happy with. It seems the problem with submitting early is you can always see room for improvement. Hence the resubmittal smirk. I have Valse Impromptu where I want it, and have a decent recording, but I will keep trying for better. I have a couple more days.

2. Kuhlau Sonatina- My teacher is using this piece to retrain my hand position. So, I am playing the 1st movement very slowly with drops on ones and then on two's. I am also playing it with eyes closed, trying to sense my hand position. So far, so good. This week we should move to drops on 4's on the Alberti's and start bringing it up to tempo.

3. Villa-Lobos - Continue "A" section at slow tempo. Work on Arpeggiated chords for evenness. Goal: Memorized A section at 1/2 tempo. My long term goal is to make this my next recital piece, but that may be ambitious for November.

4. Heller Etude- Goal - relaxed octaves in the B section.

5. Bach Invention 6 - The Goal for the A section is to play it to performance level. The goal for the B section is to play the first 1/2 at performance tempo, and to combine the last two bars HT. This invention has been much harder to memorize than the previous one that I played.
_________________________


Working on ABRSM Grade 6
European Piano Party July 4, 2015 in Switzerland!

Top
#2146581 - 09/08/13 07:11 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
griffin2417 Offline

Silver Supporter until Dec 29 2012


Registered: 12/12/10
Posts: 2465
Loc: Minneapolis, MN

Greetings everyone! If any of you have been following the thread on Clair de Lune fingering options, you'll have some ideas as to why my goals for last week didn't go exactly as planned. frown In addition to finding some discrepancies in my sheet music for Clair de Lune, I had some health issues that derailed my work on my other pieces. Now that I'm back on the mend, I will modify my practice plans.

Here are my goals for this week:

1. Clair de Lune (Debussy) - My work this week on Clair de Lune will be significantly reduced with regards to keyboard practice time. Instead, I will be doing some research while I review my sheet music to clean up any further discrepancies.

2. Prelude in D-Flat Major, Opus 28, No. 15 (Chopin) - This piece will get a major amount of my time this week while I get the issues resolved with Clair. My goal this week will be to review measures 60-75. I will isolate the weakest measures and break them into smaller parts for practice and recording.

3. Gymnopedie 1 (Satie) -  my long range goal is to memorize and record this piece for performance This week I will review this piece to determine the parts I'll give focused attention to for memorization.

4. O Holy Night (Dwight and Adams) arranged by Dan Coates - If I have time, I will start working on the parts needing to be memorized for page turning purposes.

Hopefully, I'll have better luck with getting things achieved this week. Have a great week!


Edited by griffin2417 (09/08/13 07:16 PM)
_________________________
Carl


Top
#2146584 - 09/08/13 07:15 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
zrtf90 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/29/12
Posts: 2458
Loc: Ireland (ex England)
My Sunday night FOYD update.

Grieg Trolltog, Op. 54/3
Well, I've done a passable recording and can now fit this piece into my normal four weekly cycle (unless I try it again tomorrrow or Tuesday!). It'll be nice to take some time off from it. For the time I've spent on it I'm very pleased with my progress but the standard attained for the themed recital is a little unfortunate.

Brahms Ballad, Op. 10/1
I've memorised the climax, M41-47, and the second phrase, M9-13. The first phrase is repeated so I have M1-20, M26-32 and M41-47 memorised. I'll add the fourth phrase this week and try M32-37 then take a week off.

Bach Little Prelude, BWV 933
A lovely little work but harder to memorise than I expected. There are some fingerings that cause great difficulties if they aren't kept to exactly and they're continually avoiding memorisation. I descend 5-4-3-2, for example, instead of 5-4-3-1 and lose the ability to turn over the thumb. Very frustrating. I worked one quarter each on Mon-Thurs and all four on Friday (but not in one go). Next month I should be ready to work this piece in two sections.

Scarlatti Kp. 531
This is a fabulous sonata, so bright and cheery, but it's going to be a while before I finish it. Not much time was found this week but things are looking up now that the Grieg is out of the way.

Beethoven Andante Op. 79/3
Again, not enough time has been spent here but I am more confident of finishing sooner. There are three measures that need a little isolation, 13, 14 and 19 and then the last few bars need to be more certain in LH then it's done.

Schubert Scherzo in Bb
This is much more appealing than it's Db partner and the first four notes forming the main figure take the most practise. It reminds me in so many respects of Beethoven's Bb sonata Op. 22. Tovey commented that the opening figure of that was the hardest bit and I didn't get it at the time. But I understand now what he meant and this scherzo is very much the same.

It's long on playing time but it's high on repetition and has so few unique measures making it very easy to learn and I love playing this piece.
____________________

The week ahead sees no Grieg. I haven't been able to say that for a while. I was still working on Notturno when the Grieg Themed Recital started.

I'm doing one wee phrase in the Brahms Ballad, my five new pieces are Handel Sonatina HWV585, Scarlatti Kp. 159, Schubert Ständchen, Liszt Schlummerlied (see if I can finish this for Christmas), and (brand new) Dvorak Silhouette Op. 8/1 which is only analysis and fingering this week. My repertoire piece is Chopin Mazurka Op. 7/1.
_________________________
Richard

Top
#2146591 - 09/08/13 07:34 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
jotur Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 5659
Loc: Santa Fe, NM
Oh my. I guess I can say that all the focused practice means that when I'm distracted I play more confidently than I used to play when I was distracted. One of the folks at an assisted living place I play at stands right in front of the piano, or right next to me, and "scat" sings, sort of, loudly enough I can't hear the piano. I know she's always going to do it, and it still distracts me. I finally got to the place I could say "shh" when she started (oh, hey, my AOTW! I can talk while I play! laugh ) I suspect she's loud enough that any mistakes I end up making are kind of covered up. But I wish I could just play thru it. Good thing I don't play in a bar with drunks falling in to mic stands, huh.

But I've been reviewing repertoire this past week, so that I have some stuff for this month's gigs that they haven't heard in awhile. It's pretty interesting to see that some chord progressions now make sense, when I didn't recognize them at all when I first learned a piece. Progress. I think smile

Cathy
_________________________

Top
#2146608 - 09/08/13 08:33 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
FarmGirl Offline

Silver Supporter until Jan 02 2013


Registered: 09/14/10
Posts: 2036
Loc: Scottsdale, AZ
I discussed with my teacher the pieces I will be performing this semester. I have to drop Chopin Nocturn. Don't have time to squeeze it in. She thinks Rach piece will take until next spring because I hardly had time to work on it. She wants me to do Rach piece first. For October recital, I will do Mozart 2 piano piece with my teacher and play two Grieg pieces. She wants me to play Puck at speed (half note =178) just because I hate fast pieces. For December recital, we decided to work on slow and small movement from Schubert since I only have 2 months to bring it to a performance level. I have to pick either Op 120 2nd movement Andante or his Grand Sonata No 3 - 2nd movement Andante sostenuto. The latter is much prettier but not sure if I have time to tackle 5 pages. I love it though. I also have to learn another Bach and play at least the prelude part for the December recital. This time another f minor Prelude and Fugue from Book I of WTC. F minor is my favorite key.


Edited by FarmGirl (09/08/13 09:06 PM)
_________________________
Solo - Rachmaninoff Elegie Op 3 #1, Schumann Op 12 Warum, Grillen and a few short pieces by various composers
Collaboration - Concerto in C for Oboe and orchestra attributed to Haydn edited by Evelyn Rosewell and some duets


Top
#2146634 - 09/08/13 09:30 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
aTallGuyNH Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/22/12
Posts: 509
My favorite key is key lime pie...
_________________________
"...when you do practice properly, it seems to take no time at all. Just do it right five times or so, and then stop." -- JimF

Working on: my aversion to practicing in front of my wife

1978 Vose & Sons spinet "Rufus"
1914 Huntington upright "Mabel"

XXIX-XXXII

Top
#2146817 - 09/09/13 09:06 AM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
casinitaly Offline


Gold Supporter until March 1 2014


Registered: 03/01/10
Posts: 5305
Loc: Italy
Looks like everyone has been very busy over the past 2 weeks.

My focus for this week is going to be on getting ready for my "performance" of my summer studies for my teacher.

I will perform my Grieg piece and the Fughetta for sure. The other pieces will be "this is as far as I could get".

Today I've just been going through my pieces to see how rusty I feel after 2 weeks of no piano. The first 15 minutes were a bit odd... then things evened out a bit, but I realized that one of my problems was that I haven't cut back my fingernails yet and they're getting in the way!

So - my specific focus this week:

1. practice all my scales and arpeggios as warm ups for at least one session each day.

2. Review the wobbly bits in the Fughetta

3. Work on memorizing the left hand for Fly Me to the Moon

4. Memorize the second pattern for Evening in the Meadow

5. refresh the Grieg piece (what a pleasure)

6 memorize the middle part of Autumn Mood

7. do what I can on the Austrian tune!

I have a lot of time this week as most of my lessons are no where near to starting so.... I should be in good shape for next Tuesday.

I also have to get some pics sorted for my Grieg video!
_________________________
XVIII-XXXV
Everything's too hard until you make it easy. Follow your teacher's instructions and practice wisely/much, and you'll soon wonder how you ever found it hard ;)-BobPickle
Performance anxiety: make it part of your daily routine and deal with it...Cope! zrtf90

Top
#2147388 - 09/10/13 06:30 AM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
sinophilia Offline

Gold Supporter until Sept. 05 2014


Registered: 06/26/12
Posts: 1022
Loc: Italy
Welcome back Cheryl! You missed some news while you were away wink

I've been very bad at FOYD last week, but I'm trying to catch up now, before I leave for Berlin for 4 days (with attached Barenboim & Argerich concert!!).

My goals for Friday:
1. Czerny's Study in D: it's basically under my fingers but just at half tempo, and the last phrase is tricky. I will do my best to bring it all to 2/3 tempo.
2. Bach's Minuet: I haven't even touched this in the last week! Will have to work hard on the second half, so I can hope to have it all learned in a couple of weeks.
3. I started a new piece, a very easy Minuet by Thomas Attwood. I kind of sight-read it, so I should be able to put it all together at reasonable tempo by Friday.
4. I need to refresh This and That - the magazine version, which is a bit different from the one in the video lesson, is much more lively and full of staccatos than mine, and I have to get ready to play it on a real piano smile
_________________________
Diana & Wally - Yamaha W110BW
Martha Argerich... is an incarnation of the artistic metaphor of the "eternal feminine" that draws us upward. (Sergio Sablich)

Top
#2147492 - 09/10/13 10:54 AM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
FarmGirl Offline

Silver Supporter until Jan 02 2013


Registered: 09/14/10
Posts: 2036
Loc: Scottsdale, AZ
Isn't Thoms Attwood an ancestor of the pianist corner member Koji? I cannot remember his login name. He would be happy to know that you are working on his great great....? grandpa's piece.
_________________________
Solo - Rachmaninoff Elegie Op 3 #1, Schumann Op 12 Warum, Grillen and a few short pieces by various composers
Collaboration - Concerto in C for Oboe and orchestra attributed to Haydn edited by Evelyn Rosewell and some duets


Top
#2147611 - 09/10/13 02:05 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: FarmGirl]
sinophilia Offline

Gold Supporter until Sept. 05 2014


Registered: 06/26/12
Posts: 1022
Loc: Italy
How cool! This minuet is the second movement of a short sonatina. I also have the first movement, which looks more complex, I think I'll learn that too!
_________________________
Diana & Wally - Yamaha W110BW
Martha Argerich... is an incarnation of the artistic metaphor of the "eternal feminine" that draws us upward. (Sergio Sablich)

Top
#2147860 - 09/10/13 07:53 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
AimeeO Offline

Silver Supporter until Jan 04 2013


Registered: 05/20/10
Posts: 803
Loc: New Orleans
Whoopsie - got a little behind here. I will give an update of where I am soon.

Top
#2149503 - 09/13/13 02:08 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
casinitaly Offline


Gold Supporter until March 1 2014


Registered: 03/01/10
Posts: 5305
Loc: Italy
Thanks Sinophilia! It is nice to be back!


Well, the week has gone well....

Realizations:

1 I don't really enjoy scales and arpeggios. sigh.



2. Fughetta flows very nicely at a slower speed. This is good. I can build up speed later.

3. Fly Me to the Moon doesn't seem to want to stick in my brain...

4. Evening in the Meadow is sounding sweet!

5. Grieg piece Watchman's Song - memorized! Without even planning that!

6 Autumn Mood-- not quite memorized..getting there

7. Austrian tune - working reasonably well if I keep it slow.

Not bad, and still 4 days to practice before I see my teacher. smile
_________________________
XVIII-XXXV
Everything's too hard until you make it easy. Follow your teacher's instructions and practice wisely/much, and you'll soon wonder how you ever found it hard ;)-BobPickle
Performance anxiety: make it part of your daily routine and deal with it...Cope! zrtf90

Top
#2149535 - 09/13/13 03:04 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: casinitaly]
SwissMS Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/11
Posts: 853
Loc: Switzerland
I have had a pretty good practice week over all. I started German lessons again after a two year break, and that is taking a lot of time, so I have had to be really focussed during my practice time.

1. The Grieg pieces have moved to "maintenance level with my other repertoire pieces.

2. Kuhlau Sonatina- This piece has been excellent for working on my hand position and rapid scale passages. It is an exercise in patience to keep playing slowly and assuring 100% accuracy and good hand position preparation. I have completed Movement 1 and memorized it. Hopefully this week I can start doing the Alberti's in 4's and up the tempo.

3. Villa-Lobos - I learned the RH "salsa" section this week. Fun. This week I will work on adding the LH, 4 over 3 rhythm. The goal for the "A" section is to memorize it and speed it up a little, maintaining smooth chord changes. There are some Arpeggiated chords that are not flowing well.

4. Bach inv. 6 - I have HT for the entire piece now. In my lesson we worked on where to play legato and where to play non-legato. I need to build that into my interpretation this week, and start polishing the piece. I still have a couple of sticky spots. I need to maintain HS practice as well, to assure preparation is ingrained.

5. Telfer - When Rivers Flowed on Mars. I brought this up to tempo for the first time today. Goal for this week is to record it.

6. Nölck- Good Humored - This is another etude for rapid Alberti base that I am just beginning. Begin HS practice this week.

I am starting to go into Chopin withdrawal symptoms. I think I need to add a new Nocturne or Prelude soon!!!
_________________________


Working on ABRSM Grade 6
European Piano Party July 4, 2015 in Switzerland!

Top
#2149661 - 09/13/13 06:30 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: casinitaly]
Bobpickle Offline

Gold Supporter until July 10  2014


Registered: 05/24/12
Posts: 1383
Loc: Cameron Park, California
Originally Posted By: casinitaly
Realizations:

1 I don't really enjoy scales and arpeggios. sigh.


Both you and most everyone else. No need to feel bad not practicing monotonous "exercises" devoid of musical context. Just practice scales and arpeggios relevant to pieces that you're learning and they'll never come across as irrelevant or uninteresting. And I still don't mean practice these scales and arpeggios relentlessly as exercises, but simply until you no longer need to practice them because you've thoroughly ingrained the technique into your subconscious. Fortunately with scales and arpeggios, the "technique" required to play them all fluidly and comfortably is quite similar and thus very transferable - meaning that once you thoroughly learn to play one well, the rest will come significantly more easily than the first.

Top
#2149839 - 09/14/13 02:59 AM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Bobpickle]
casinitaly Offline


Gold Supporter until March 1 2014


Registered: 03/01/10
Posts: 5305
Loc: Italy
Originally Posted By: Bobpickle
Originally Posted By: casinitaly
Realizations:

1 I don't really enjoy scales and arpeggios. sigh.


Both you and most everyone else. No need to feel bad not practicing monotonous "exercises" devoid of musical context. Just practice scales and arpeggios relevant to pieces that you're learning and they'll never come across as irrelevant or uninteresting. And I still don't mean practice these scales and arpeggios relentlessly as exercises, but simply until you no longer need to practice them because you've thoroughly ingrained the technique into your subconscious. Fortunately with scales and arpeggios, the "technique" required to play them all fluidly and comfortably is quite similar and thus very transferable - meaning that once you thoroughly learn to play one well, the rest will come significantly more easily than the first.


Note to readers: Boldface is my addition.

Bob, I don't feel "too" bad, but I know that working on the scales is good for me (like eating spinach, which I used to hate but now I love smile ) I don't feel that they are irrelevant, just tedious. The reason I put part of your text in bold is because up to a point I agree, but since I started on the scales with flats, which have different fingering patterns, I have had a lot of difficulty getting even close to fluidity!
The sharp scales flow pretty well, but it is only recently - after months (ok, months of wishy-washy practice) that the flats are just starting to feel natural (and I've only done 2 of those! ugh).

I really hope that with these guys more or less under control that you're right and the rest will be easier.

I do sometimes try to break the monotony by playing them with different dynamics.... but ....well, scales are scales eh?
_________________________
XVIII-XXXV
Everything's too hard until you make it easy. Follow your teacher's instructions and practice wisely/much, and you'll soon wonder how you ever found it hard ;)-BobPickle
Performance anxiety: make it part of your daily routine and deal with it...Cope! zrtf90

Top
#2149934 - 09/14/13 09:17 AM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
PianoStudent88 Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/16/11
Posts: 3206
Loc: Maine
Scales may be scales, but I wonder if they appeal differently to different personality types. I enjoy scales. I enjoy their orderliness. I enjoy working on subtle aspects of technique: for example, am I preparing my thumb? Exactly how does crossing the hand over the thumb work best? Does it make a difference if I angle my hand? What about feeling like my arm is moving along the keys, instead of my fingers creating the movement? Can I play them with dynamics or articulation? Can I play them with different dynamics/articulation in the two hands? What about speed: can I work in microbursts of speed, and does it take a different kind of gesture to create speed? What about thumb under vs. thumb over? Can I play them at different rhythms in the two hands (e.g. two notes in RH to one note in LH, etc.)? And so on.
_________________________
Ebaug(maj7)

Top
#2150584 - 09/15/13 03:16 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: PianoStudent88]
AimeeO Offline

Silver Supporter until Jan 04 2013


Registered: 05/20/10
Posts: 803
Loc: New Orleans
I need to work on my scales, also - two of my pieces I'm working with (Clementi 36 no 3, and Mozart 545, right now first movements of both) have runs in them, and my thumb is making them uneven.

Originally Posted By: PianoStudent88
What about speed: can I work in microbursts of speed, and does it take a different kind of gesture to create speed? What about thumb under vs. thumb over? Can I play them at different rhythms in the two hands (e.g. two notes in RH to one note in LH, etc.)? And so on.


I was working on this, actually, this week! I'm finding, at least for me, thumbs under aren't working out well speedwise, so I'm practicing the other way. I never really worked on speed with my scales - when we spent time on scales, my teacher's main goal was to get me used to their flow. Her method is to do these things in steps(along with Hanon), and return later(sometimes more than once) for more in depth instruction. While doing this all at once the first time works for many, this alternate method works perfectly for me, as I am easily overwhelmed and have a tendency to shut down. I find I get more out of things when I go back to them, too.

So, I guess since I've got started, I'll do a quick version of what I'm working on. Still on Hanon 1-4 and 5-8. I'm playing these in whole chunks to get my stamina up while exercising control over my fingers. This is taking longer than I thought, but boy, I'm getting so much out of it. I eventually will control my lazy fingers(I'm looking at you, 4 fingers!) that like to fake it!
Obviously nit picking at Clementi and Mozart, and still plugging away at the notebook of music from different periods my teacher put together for me. Very slowly, I might add, but now that the Grieg isn't hanging over me, I'll have more time.

... or so I hope. I've had distractions this week in terms of pursuing a possible career change, which has been stressful, distracting, overwhelming and exciting all at the same time. If nothing else, I am getting better at interviews. Cross your fingers for me!

Top
#2150678 - 09/15/13 06:00 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
zrtf90 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/29/12
Posts: 2458
Loc: Ireland (ex England)
My thoughts are with you, Aimee, good luck in your endeavour!

I worked on the last attempts at Trolltog this week but instead of my normal pieces I've spent time on...

Beethoven Sonatas Op. 7, Opus 10 No. 3 and Op. 27 No. 2
I worked through the first two of these as supplemental work for the Jonathan Biss Lectures and my comparison piece for the assignment. I've decided to do the Largo e mesto from Op. 10/3 for an ABF Recital, #33 next May. The Moonlight I looked at again for the analysis thread so I gave it a few whirls en passant. It really is a very powerful piece!

Clair De Lune
Not a targeted piece but I examined the fingering with Griffin and aTallGuyNH and started a revisit. I never finished this last time I started it and didn't memorise much but some came back readily and some didn't. I'm not sure if I want to add this just yet but we'll see.

I normally take the last week in each quarter as time off from my usual stuff but I've taken it early this time to accommodate the Grieg Recital and the Coursera lectures among other things.

My focus for the week ahead then is still the same, the Brahms Ballad, Handel Sonatina HWV585, Scarlatti Kp. 159, Schubert Ständchen, Liszt Schlummerlied, and either the Dvorak Silhouette Op. 8/1 or another go at Clair De Lune. My repertoire piece is Chopin Mazurka Op. 7/1 and this time there really will be no Grieg this week!
_________________________
Richard

Top
#2150712 - 09/15/13 06:55 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
jotur Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 5659
Loc: Santa Fe, NM
Whoa. No focus to speak of this week - distracted most of the time. Didn't really focus until the band's gig Saturday afternoon, when the other backer couldn't come at the last minute - haven't been the only backer in several years. But I'm actually best off in performance, often, because I'm focused on having the band and the audience enjoying their time.

I've been spending time trying to go over repertoire so that I can pretty much play any of it at the drop of a hat. It seems to me that means I have to thoroughly understand it, both intellectually and in my body and ear, so that I can fake it if needed smile I never expect perfection laugh So I really need more time transposing to lots of different keys, getting familiar with the normal progressions so that I immediately know that F#m is the 6th of A major, for instance, and have a sense of the flow of each piece. I can do that sort of with simple pieces that use I IV V and vi in their key, but not much beyond that. So that's really where I'd like to spend my time. But if I spend time keeping repertoire up just because I've got 3 gigs in the same weekend it's hard to do that, and I can get frustrated. But I've got some time this week - tho I did just pick up another paying gig! Yea! *That* will take real focus, tho - it's at 10:30 in the morning. I'm not really quite awake yet then laugh

Cathy
_________________________

Top
#2150761 - 09/15/13 08:13 PM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
Valencia Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 256
Sunday, Sept 15-2013

This week I only got to a couple of my pieces. Seems I’m not focused or maybe expecting too much for each week. For this week:

1. Mysterious Barricades-I might do this one instead of Adieu for the next ABF recital. Started it long ago and it’s been on the backburner. I love this piece. The problem may be pain in my thumb due to finger pedaling. :\ This week work on what I am calling part D.

2. Chopin Prelude 26-got 21-32 going, but it’s still slow. A beautiful little prelude but so challenging! This week work again on 21-32 but also 15 and 16.

3. Moonlight-3- I’ve almost got bars 1-40 memorized (yay!), though still shaky. Did a lot of the memorizing away from the piano which seems to help. So will continue with that. Geez how to memorize bars 41-42. Then 43-46. Then 47-48. Maybe I’ll try to memorize 2 bars a day.

4. Beethoven Op. 2, No. 3 Adagio-Might try to learn this one, for now I’m just trying it on. I need more achievable pieces to go along with the impossible ones in my practicing.

5. The Ballade, Ocean and the Rach prelude are getting a rest but I may put them back into the mix this week. We’ll see…..

Top
#2151022 - 09/16/13 02:13 AM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
griffin2417 Offline

Silver Supporter until Dec 29 2012


Registered: 12/12/10
Posts: 2465
Loc: Minneapolis, MN
Sunday, September 15

This was a difficult week trying to get much of anything done. I was able to manage some work on Chopin Prelude in D-Flat Major.

I also got a little done on O' Holy Night. However, this is an easy piece and I'm simply bringing it back to be ready for the holiday season.

While I didn't spend much time at the piano with Clair de Lune, I spent a substantial amount of time reviewing the score because the score I was working from had errors in it. Thanks to Richard, TallGuy, and Sam, I've found a good score and am now making the needed changes I'll have to rework. I'll be meeting with my teacher this week to put together a plan for getting the revision work done.

For now I'm not making any new goals for this week. There is still a lot of unfinished business from last week.




Edited by griffin2417 (09/16/13 02:20 AM)
_________________________
Carl


Top
#2152817 - 09/18/13 08:13 AM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
PianoStudent88 Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/16/11
Posts: 3206
Loc: Maine
I've been completely focused on my three Grieg Lyric Pieces. Now that they're done, I have a completely empty slate. I'm not sure I want to fill it up right away; it's a nice feeling to have absolutely no obligations, plus I'm sort of rethinking music entirely. I have the focused way I've always proceeded, but maybe there's some other way.

However, if I were to be focused, here's what I'm thinking about:

RCM 2:
3 pieces
Étude
Scales
Chords
Arpeggios
Ear training (intervals)
Keep up RCM 1 pieces

Ear training: melodies by ear

Improvisation (my style)

Piano party prep:
Khachaturian
Bach AMBN
Grieg
Joni Mitchell?

Bach Little Prelude

Just playing
_________________________
Ebaug(maj7)

Top
#2154338 - 09/20/13 10:32 AM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: Saranoya]
sinophilia Offline

Gold Supporter until Sept. 05 2014


Registered: 06/26/12
Posts: 1022
Loc: Italy
I've definitely fallen off the bandwagon in the last ten days... first the piano was delivered, then I went abroad for four days, and now I have influenza frown

Anyway, I'm working on getting back on track. Basically I'm relearning all the old stuff with the volume of my DP on maximum (something I should have done from the very beginning), so I won't deafen everybody when I start playing on the acoustic. My Czerny's study is okay but not to tempo yet; same for Attwood's minuet. I will go on with these and won't add anything new for a week or two.

Oh... except that I need to at least give a first look to the simplified Maple Leaf Rag I'm playing for the Joplin recital!


Edited by sinophilia (09/20/13 10:33 AM)
_________________________
Diana & Wally - Yamaha W110BW
Martha Argerich... is an incarnation of the artistic metaphor of the "eternal feminine" that draws us upward. (Sergio Sablich)

Top
#2154348 - 09/20/13 10:59 AM Re: FOYD - Focus On Your Domain [Re: PianoStudent88]
SwissMS Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/11
Posts: 853
Loc: Switzerland
Now that Grieg is out of the way, I have filled up my dance-card it seems! I added a Chopin Mazurka for December and a Joplin piece for March. Pressure is on.

1. Kuhlau Sonatina: I can relate to the scales discussion above. This final tempo for this piece is min. 120 per quarter, so the 1/16th runs need to be 4X that. My thumb crosses going away from the thumb are not smooth at 2/3'rds that speed. So, that will be a major focus for the next few weeks. I am now doing the Alberti's in 8's, trying to shape them. I will begin the 2nd movement this week with listening to recordings and start chunking from the end.

2. Villa-Lobos: A and B sections are memorized. This week I want to complete memorization. I learned new choreography for this piece that I need to internalize.

3. Bach Inv. 6: It is finally memorized! Now I need to polish it, and work on phrasing legato vs non legato playing. This is the fun part!

4. Telfer- I want to record this piece this week, then it goes into the maintenance stack.

5. Chopin - Mazurka 6 2: I wanted a new Chopin, now I have one. This week I learned through M15, This week I will continue chunking in phrases through the end.

6. Joplin - Read through this week. Postpone starting until Mazurka is learned.

7. Nolck: Complete HT, play in 1's (drops).
_________________________


Working on ABRSM Grade 6
European Piano Party July 4, 2015 in Switzerland!

Top
Page 1 of 21 1 2 3 ... 20 21 >

Moderator:  BB Player, casinitaly 
What's Hot!!
Christmas Header
Christmas Lights at Piano World Headquarters in Maine 2014
-------------------
The December Free Piano Newsletter
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
-------------------
PIANO BOOKS
Interesting books about the piano, pianists, piano history, biographies, memoirs and more!
(ad) Yamaha CP Music Rest Promo
Yamaha CP Music Rest Promo
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Knabe Pianos
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
Sheet Music Plus (125)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Bottom of hammer hitting top of damper on upright
by JoeThePro
12/21/14 10:09 PM
Getting better
by Kekewak
12/21/14 07:35 PM
Pearl River vs. Samick
by Zekk
12/21/14 03:41 PM
Kawai vs. Yamaha: what to choose
by SeeSharp
12/21/14 02:19 PM
Disklavier Pro Alternatives? C5X Value for money?
by bryan77
12/21/14 01:15 PM
Forum Stats
77391 Members
42 Forums
160047 Topics
2350339 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
Gift Ideas for Music Lovers!
Find the Perfect Gift for the Music Lovers on your List!
Visit our online store today.

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
|
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission