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#2127150 - 08/02/13 09:01 PM The China Exodus
Theodore Slutz Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/03/10
Posts: 329
Loc: California
Just a follow up to all the talk about China. Here is an article, one of many posted in the last month, indicating an Exodus of businesses from China's terrible business policies.

http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/224201-foreign-investment-flees-china-despite-denials/

Not just this article but if you google "Investors Flee China" you'll find a litany of news sources stating the facts.

I hope of our friends in the piano community have protected themselves properly. If things go badly maybe they can move operations to Indonesia, Thailand or Taiwan... or even back to the US like what Google did recently for the Moto X smartphone plant.

You won't make as much money but you also won't be thrown under the bus by some CCP official padding his pockets with your hard earned money.
_________________________
Charles Walter Model W (190)


“The aim and final end of all music should be none other than the glory of God and the refreshment of the soul.” J.S. Bach


"I just want to know, if we came from monkeys and apes, WHY DO WE STILL HAVE MONKEYS AND APES?" George Carlin

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#2127159 - 08/02/13 09:28 PM Re: The China Exodus [Re: Theodore Slutz]
michaelha Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/05/13
Posts: 814
Interesting. It's been well understood that cheap labor doesn't last forever (think Japan, Taiwan, Korea, etc...), but for some reason I thought because of the size of China it would last a lot longer.

Soon we'll be debating the merits of Vietnamese pianos.
_________________________
Casio CDP-100
2012 Kawai RX-5 BLAK

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#2127178 - 08/02/13 10:02 PM Re: The China Exodus [Re: Theodore Slutz]
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 14138
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
I'm all for closing down China and sever all trade relations.

Nothing nicer than selling only Steinways, Sauters and Estonias - to ourselves!

But this doesn't mean automatically it'll open up countries in the West and restore things where they once were.

Putting money back into your and my pocket.

In fact, quite the exact opposite seems to be case.

Better think things through VERY carefully.

Before pulling plug.

P.S. Which "plug"

Norbert eek


Edited by Norbert (08/02/13 10:07 PM)
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#2127215 - 08/02/13 11:17 PM Re: The China Exodus [Re: Theodore Slutz]
Theodore Slutz Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/03/10
Posts: 329
Loc: California
I think the issue is that there is a cancer in society called self entitlement. Meaning everybody thinks they deserve to have (insert item here). That's fine when you want everyone in society to improve with education or to buy instruments for music or buy books or computers but does everyone "deserve" a 70 inch TV? No. Does everyone deserve a pair of $200 basketball shoes or an iphone? NO. Yet society is subsidizing the banks that fail that extend credit to those thank think they deserve it all.

If we don't have cheap exploitative labor then people would simply settle for a 25 inch tv... boo hoo... and a flip phone instead of incessant texting on an iphone they can't afford. They will just have to make do.

I hate to say it but even though i can't stand Marx and the murderous actions of the socialists, there is something to the statement about "bourgeois excess". In the past spiritually inclined societies simply called it materialistic excess and it has almost always been attained on the backs of someone else.

Sorry about the social commentary, but its not political, just a historical statement.

Hopefully this change will be a lesson for us all.


Edited by Theodore Slutz (08/02/13 11:19 PM)
_________________________
Charles Walter Model W (190)


“The aim and final end of all music should be none other than the glory of God and the refreshment of the soul.” J.S. Bach


"I just want to know, if we came from monkeys and apes, WHY DO WE STILL HAVE MONKEYS AND APES?" George Carlin

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#2127219 - 08/02/13 11:22 PM Re: The China Exodus [Re: Theodore Slutz]
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 14138
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
Theodore:

Interesting post - not toally disagreeing.

Interesting thinking....

Norbert


Edited by Norbert (08/03/13 12:28 AM)
_________________________
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#2127230 - 08/02/13 11:44 PM Re: The China Exodus [Re: Theodore Slutz]
Anne'sson Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/25/12
Posts: 143
Loc: El Paso, TX
. . .



Edited by Anne'sson (08/02/13 11:49 PM)
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Anne'sson
El Paso, TX

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#2127280 - 08/03/13 02:07 AM Re: The China Exodus [Re: Theodore Slutz]
pno Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 1042
Loc: ♪oron♪o, on♪ario, canada...
Epoch Times is the propaganda "newspaper" of "Falun Gong".
_________________________
♫♫♫ ♫♫♫
YAMAHA C2M PE

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#2127350 - 08/03/13 07:33 AM Re: The China Exodus [Re: Theodore Slutz]
Jolly Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/20/01
Posts: 14051
Loc: Louisiana
Would be glad to see more piano factories in the U.S.

If we used the latest techniques (robotics, CNC)could we produce an affordable piano?...Defining affordable piano as something like a decent 46-48" piano for around $6K.
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Over 1,000,000 posts where pianists discuss everything. And nothing.

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#2127361 - 08/03/13 08:48 AM Re: The China Exodus [Re: Jolly]
Steve Cohen Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 10465
Loc: Maryland/DC/No. VA
Originally Posted By: Jolly
Would be glad to see more piano factories in the U.S.

If we used the latest techniques (robotics, CNC)could we produce an affordable piano?...Defining affordable piano as something like a decent 46-48" piano for around $6K.


I have reason to think we can...and will.
_________________________
Piano Industry Consultant- http://www.linkedin.com/pub/steve-cohen/6/b92/b80

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Since 1937.

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My postings, unless stated otherwise, are my personal opinions, not those of my clients.

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#2127395 - 08/03/13 10:49 AM Re: The China Exodus [Re: Theodore Slutz]
Theodore Slutz Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/03/10
Posts: 329
Loc: California
PNO ... easy man... even a broken clock is right twice a day.

Who cares who prints facts if they are facts. I would understand your reaction if this was an editorial but this was a hard news story with facts. In addition dozens of other sources are quoted with these facts as well.

Here's CNBC: http://www.cnbc.com/id/100837313

Here's Wall Street Journal: http://blogs.wsj.com/moneybeat/2013/06/19/investors-flee-h-shares-after-weak-china-data/

Here's a NON US newspaper, "The Australian" Since you think all US newspapers are CIA propaganda fronts: http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business...6-1226668933967

Those are just a few from the first page results on a Google search.

Sorry dude but the facts are the facts.


Edited by Theodore Slutz (08/03/13 10:51 AM)
_________________________
Charles Walter Model W (190)


“The aim and final end of all music should be none other than the glory of God and the refreshment of the soul.” J.S. Bach


"I just want to know, if we came from monkeys and apes, WHY DO WE STILL HAVE MONKEYS AND APES?" George Carlin

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#2127401 - 08/03/13 11:05 AM Re: The China Exodus [Re: Theodore Slutz]
Nash. Piano Rescue Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/08/09
Posts: 384
Loc: East Nashville,TN Scottsville...
I doubt those jobs will return to the US until healthcare costs stabilize. You also have the surety bond issue with certain states on hiring. Small business cannot afford to hire and large companies only use temps to avoid it. If you want to be a temp for 20 years then it's fine but don't expect benefits/retirement full time hire positions in the US in the future if the system cannot be fixed.

Another avenue of concern is HAPS/EPA and other regulations. Green factories are expensive.
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Scottsville KY.
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#2127440 - 08/03/13 12:21 PM Re: The China Exodus [Re: Theodore Slutz]
TX-Dennis Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/09/05
Posts: 4126
Loc: Texas
Even .gov agencies are using temps more these days. Some one I work with told me she had replied to an ad for postal workers. As she is a former postal employee, she thought she might go back since the pay and benefits were not bad. She was told at her interview that all new hires are contract temporary workers only with no benefits whatsoever. Put an end to that idea.
_________________________
Dennis

flickr


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#2127468 - 08/03/13 01:29 PM Re: The China Exodus [Re: Theodore Slutz]
pno Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 1042
Loc: ♪oron♪o, on♪ario, canada...
Originally Posted By: Theodore Slutz
PNO ... easy man... even a broken clock is right twice a day.

...

Sorry dude but the facts are the facts.


Sorry I don't think it's the end of the world (or China or any other country for that matter). Investors come and go everyday. Economy rebalancing is a normal and necessary part of a cycle.
_________________________
♫♫♫ ♫♫♫
YAMAHA C2M PE

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#2127503 - 08/03/13 02:56 PM Re: The China Exodus [Re: Theodore Slutz]
michaelha Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/05/13
Posts: 814
What I find unfair is factories are constantly moving to cheaper countries, at the same time most countries have visa programs for people with advanced degrees, but there are few, if any, visa programs for low skilled workers. Displaced low-skilled workers in the US and Europe should be able to immigrate to China.

Of course I'm only half joking, but...also half serious. The system the way it is now makes many of the well educated people leave the cheap labor countries (brain drain) and all the low-skilled workers stuck unemployed in the expensive labor countries. Related to the benefits discussion, that oversupply of unemployed, low-skilled workers allows employers to offer low wages, no benefits, etc.

So this whole thing about "globalization" is a farce since it's only one-way, but it works really well for some. Perhaps one solution is for every single visa we issue for someone with an advanced degree, the source country needs to grant a visa for one of our low-skilled workers. LOL...that'll be the day.

Either way, the best way to survive an unfair system is to understand it and adapt, and if you have any energy left you can try to change it.
_________________________
Casio CDP-100
2012 Kawai RX-5 BLAK

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#2127928 - 08/04/13 12:27 PM Re: The China Exodus [Re: Theodore Slutz]
rlinkt Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/08/12
Posts: 309
Loc: CA
Originally Posted By: Theodore Slutz
PNO ... easy man... even a broken clock is right twice a day.

Who cares who prints facts if they are facts. I would understand your reaction if this was an editorial but this was a hard news story with facts. In addition dozens of other sources are quoted with these facts as well.

Here's CNBC: http://www.cnbc.com/id/100837313

Here's Wall Street Journal: http://blogs.wsj.com/moneybeat/2013/06/19/investors-flee-h-shares-after-weak-china-data/

Here's a NON US newspaper, "The Australian" Since you think all US newspapers are CIA propaganda fronts: http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business...6-1226668933967

Those are just a few from the first page results on a Google search.

Sorry dude but the facts are the facts.


Umm ... yes -- the headlines match, but not the content. The 3 articles quoted are talking about something quite different :-) And WSJ is talking about something a bit orthogonal to the other two.


Edited by rlinkt (08/04/13 12:27 PM)

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#2128068 - 08/04/13 06:10 PM Re: The China Exodus [Re: Theodore Slutz]
Theodore Slutz Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/03/10
Posts: 329
Loc: California
Sigggghhhh..... Orthogonal? .... Damn, someone else found a thesaurus.

I'll tell you what I told a girlfriend of mine quite some time ago when arguing about high IQ people's deficiencies in identifying correlatives in juxtaposed subject matter:

"Your ability to contradict doesn't make you intelligent. Denial of facts means exactly that you are IN denial."

The China subject is a touchy one and nobody wants to see the people of China suffer more than they already have under the Party's agenda but the fact remains that the artificially propped up economy has been faltering in a major way for some time.

Pay attention what i am about to say everyone... listen closely!

"The Chinese Communist Party owns and controls ALL THE MEDIA IN THE COUNTRY OF CHINA!!!"

It only comes to the public through the STATE RUN MEDIA!!!

Are they going to admit to the public that their own policies have failed?

The roaring 2000's were used as a validation of the Communist Party's policies and the continued enforcement thereof. Now its time to pay the piper.

Just to be clear, I don't think China has the only economic system that's artificially manipulated... but that's another subject.



I'm excited for the future of China and the rest of the world in its relationship with it post communism. Look how well Russia has done since its change... China will do the same.
_________________________
Charles Walter Model W (190)


“The aim and final end of all music should be none other than the glory of God and the refreshment of the soul.” J.S. Bach


"I just want to know, if we came from monkeys and apes, WHY DO WE STILL HAVE MONKEYS AND APES?" George Carlin

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#2128169 - 08/04/13 09:37 PM Re: The China Exodus [Re: Theodore Slutz]
rlinkt Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/08/12
Posts: 309
Loc: CA
Originally Posted By: Theodore Slutz
Sigggghhhh..... Orthogonal? .... Damn, someone else found a thesaurus.

No need to get personal -- please stick to the topic.

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#2128253 - 08/05/13 12:01 AM Re: The China Exodus [Re: Theodore Slutz]
Theodore Slutz Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/03/10
Posts: 329
Loc: California
just a little friendly poking my friend... good word usage by the way, even if I don't agree with you
_________________________
Charles Walter Model W (190)


“The aim and final end of all music should be none other than the glory of God and the refreshment of the soul.” J.S. Bach


"I just want to know, if we came from monkeys and apes, WHY DO WE STILL HAVE MONKEYS AND APES?" George Carlin

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#2128277 - 08/05/13 12:32 AM Re: The China Exodus [Re: Theodore Slutz]
rlinkt Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/08/12
Posts: 309
Loc: CA
Agreement is absolutely not required -- debate is healthy.

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