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My son is a Rapper/Songwriter. He's getting better and better and now would like to have the ability to create better music above what Garage Band can do. I have found various options, but would like some input. We would like keep it under $500 since he's still a beginner and we have a budget.

This is what I've found. Would love your feedback, thoughts and other suggestions. The Korg MicroArranger has gotten our attention and is the right price point. But if something for less gets you the same or if there's something a bit more that's way better, we want to know.

Yamaha Piaggero NP-V80 $399

Casio WK-7500: $449

Korg MicroArranger: $499
Korg Kross-61 $699

Roland E-09: $599

Feel free to send other suggestions.

Thanks!

Hi and welcome to the forums.. does your son already know how to play a keyboard?

Welcome to the forum Catalyst.

To be honest, if your son is already using Garageband, I would be inclined to delve deeper into software instruments and sequencing using a DAW, rather than opt for the less flexible hardware keyboard arranger route.

Apologies for not answer your question...

Cheers,
James
x

Yup - that's kind of where I going with my question. If he doesn't know (or doesn't want to know) how to play a keyboard, one of those alternative controllers with some plug-ins might be the way to go.

No, not yet. I play piano and would give him some basic lessons and then have him take lessons. He will be a true beginner.

Garage Band is capable of very good results.

Thanks!

Yes, I was thinking he could just use a DAW to create his music. Though, I felt if he got into playing an instrument, that would be great for him. He's played a bit of drums (on my old set) and he would like to learn an instrument.

But it sounds like using a DAW might get him to where he wants to go sooner for his rapping and song writing. I haven't used any of the new tech so I'm pretty out of touch of what they really can do. I'm old school. lol

So, what if we went a different route. Buy a DAW Logic Pro for his iPad and I assume this could work on my mac too. And then buy a full size keyboard with 88 weighted keys.

Logic Pro: $199
Casio CDP-120 88 weighted key $399 (it would be great to find something for $300 to keep budget of $500)
- Or Should we completely hold off on the keyboard. Is it necessary with the DAW?

Thanks much!

DAW seems like it's making more sense. When you mean controller and plug ins... not sure what this means. Sorry, trying to catch up with all the new tech.

Thanks

The keyboard can be just (or almost only) a controller. This means that the keyboard sends midi signals to the computer.

The computer runs a recording (or sequencing) program such as garage band. This is a virtual multi-track recorder, mixing desk and mastering machine. Usually referred to as a DAW (digital audio workstation)

Plug-ins are sound sources or effects that work inside the DAW. They are software applications which function as virtual instruments & effects. They are also called VSTs or VSTi (virutal studio technology/instrument)

Since your computer is dealing with all the recording and sound generating tasks, the keyboard is merely a controller.

This is the most cost effective and flexible route to digital recording. But it isn't always the easiest or the most reliable.

Great explanation! Thanks

Catalyst, I have read your post, here:


My son is a Rapper/Songwriter. He's getting better and better and now would like to have the ability to create better music above what Garage Band can do. I have found various options, but would like some input. We would like keep it under $500 since he's still a beginner and we have a budget.

________________________________________


Please, excuse my gross ignorance.

A piano player is a piano player. An Arranger is an Arranger.

It has nothing to do with the piano - any kind of piano because a piano player is all about what happens between the brain and the fingers.

An Arranger has nothing to do with the piano - any kind of piano because it is all about what happens between the brain and the fingers.

Tell me it isn't so!

Michael 99 said: A piano player is a piano player. An Arranger is an Arranger.

It has nothing to do with the piano - any kind of piano because a piano player is all about what happens between the brain and the fingers.

An Arranger has nothing to do with the piano - any kind of piano because it is all about what happens between the brain and the fingers.

Tell me it isn't so!

You can use a keyboard to arrange - that is compose and record - pieces of music with many different instruments. Anything which can be triggered by a keyboard. Instruments of the orchestra, bands, big bands, choirs and chamber music (including pianos, obviously).

Organs have traditionally tried to do this, to imitate other instruments, but they actually made altogether new sounds - mightily impressive, but not good imitations.

Now, arrangers of music - a rapper in this case, I think - can use a wide palette of sounds, including those sounding very like traditional orchestras and so on. So it's more a matter of arranging than piano playing.

Of course you can do both things - piano playing and arranging. That's what most classical composers such as Beethoven and Stravinsky did after all, and many people nowadays including some on this forum.

Don't know much about DAWs but I gig with an arranger (but, after some arm twisting of my sax playing partner, trying to switch to piano (he liked the canned intros and outros but I felt embarrassed sitting there while the arranger played itself :-(.

Anyway I think the nice thing about arrangers is they are more flexible and they are self contained. Plug 'em in and go (well, you'll probably need to use an amp in any venue bigger than a bathroom).

If DAWs are something like Band in a Box (which I have used a lot but not on gigs) than it plays through an arrangement and then stops. If the crowd is dancing and having a good time then you will probably want to add in some extra choruses, easy to do with an arranger, not so with BB. Also if you gig you will either have to record a bunch of tracks for a player or carry a computer with you, kind of a pain.

OTOH, if you don't gig than I guess a sequencer would work ok. I used to use BB at home a lot to practice with when I played a horn.

Oh, also you really don't need to learn a lot of piano to use an arranger. As a start you just need to learn some left hand 3 or 4 finger chords to start. Basically you select a rhythm on the arranger and than control it using LH chords.

If you do pursue arrangers than I would suggest springing for at least a used PSR like a 710, 700 or 1500. They are much much easier to use than the arrangers you mentioned. Also you will find a bunch of info and helpful guys on PSR Tutorial, a great web site for arranger users.

Good luck!

If you have a 4 core Mac and want to commit to learning and running logic, it's incredible.
For a child to practice and learn piano however, that is different.
The Privia 350 or Yamaha 105 or even the Privia PX5S would be a better start.
GarageBand is highly usable with these boards and you have a board that you can walk up to, turn on and try to play. Convenience and ease of use is a good priority.

Yes, he's definitely wanting to do both. So, my exploration is to try to find something he can use to arrange with and also learn an instrument at the same time. Using a keyboard as a controller seems to work well vs other input devices. He picks things up quick whenever he applies himself. He's at that stage where this is his life.

And you're right, first it's arranging and secondly the learning to play. It will take a while to get really proficient at playing anyhow.

Thanks for the recos on keyboard!