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#2128770 - 08/06/13 02:13 AM Better choice for 600€
Geo M Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/05/13
Posts: 17
Hello to all.

I have started in an other thread explaining that I am new to pianos but I want to learn it so much and I got lot of nice advises and guidance there.

I am also posting here because my other concern is about the instrument. I need to buy a digital piano or stage piano for the small noise and space, but to feel very much like a real acoustic piano. I don’t want to buy something for now and exchange it with something else in the near future (when I will discover that I need something better). My budget is around 600€ and if a solution of a good instrument (for my needs) was less than that, I would be happier.

I have a list of digital/stage pianos but please don't stick on them and propose your suggestions.

Casio PX-150
Casio PX-350
Casio PX-750
Yamaha P105
Korg SP-170
Korg SP-250

I have to admit that I haven't tried any of them but leaning little towards casio's due to lot of reviews and comparisons that I have read between them. I really don't know the real differences between them but the feel of touch comes first, a step lower the quality and feel of sounds and last the design.
I know that the selection of the instrument is a personal choice and anyone has his reasons for choosing something. Also my intention is not to start the WW3 for digital piano's arguments. I just want to make the best choice for my money and don't regret it afterwards.
_________________________
Kawai CN 34

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#2128789 - 08/06/13 03:30 AM Re: Better choice for 600€ [Re: Geo M]
dire tonic Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/17/11
Posts: 1271
Loc: uk south
At that price point there’s nothing to beat the Casios for a keyboard which feels most like a piano, IMHO.

The px-150 has the same core piano sample as all the other x50s but fewer bells, whistles and interfacing options. Also less good but still adequate speakers than its pricier brothers (not an issue if you’re using headphones).

The Yamaha P105 was the only other contender for me. It had the slightly better sound, the px-150 had the better action and even though that seems to reflect the consensus here you might come to a different conclusion so do try and check them out yourself.

I’ve no knowledge of the Korgs.

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#2128793 - 08/06/13 03:44 AM Re: Better choice for 600€ [Re: Geo M]
spanishbuddha Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 2356
Loc: UK
Go play a PX150 and a P105. I think they are in your budget, and you will know what level of instrument you can get for that budget, and those two are similar yet different enough to give you an idea. The 150 probably has the more realistic action, but that's only important IMHO if you are also going to play on, or practise with a teacher, an acoustic.

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#2128797 - 08/06/13 03:55 AM Re: Better choice for 600€ [Re: Geo M]
Geo M Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/05/13
Posts: 17
Thank you guys for your suggestions.
Are there any real/important differences between PX-150 and PX-750 (should I pay more money and go for PX-750). Does it matter that both PX-150 and PX-750 have USB connectivity and not MIDI as 350 has?
_________________________
Kawai CN 34

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#2128803 - 08/06/13 04:16 AM Re: Better choice for 600€ [Re: Geo M]
dire tonic Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/17/11
Posts: 1271
Loc: uk south
Originally Posted By: Geo M
Thank you guys for your suggestions.
Are there any real/important differences between PX-150 and PX-750 (should I pay more money and go for PX-750). Does it matter that both PX-150 and PX-750 have USB connectivity and not MIDI as 350 has?


- not an issue for me at all. I can do all the PC-interfacing I need via USB. If you were gigging and wanted to slave another sound generator, MIDI would help.

You've said you'd be happier at 600€ or less. If your principle aim is to concentrate on learning to play the piano then the 150 will meet your needs. If you want play around with other recreational options then you'll pay more money (and risk distractions from your principle goal?).


Edited by dire tonic (08/06/13 04:21 AM)

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#2128810 - 08/06/13 05:14 AM Re: Better choice for 600€ [Re: Geo M]
Geo M Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/05/13
Posts: 17
You are absolutely right about my goals.
I am just proposing px-750 and px-350 if they are "better" instruments according to the feel and structure as the variety of different sounds is not so important although the quality of piano sounds matters.
_________________________
Kawai CN 34

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#2128814 - 08/06/13 05:38 AM Re: Better choice for 600€ [Re: Geo M]
dire tonic Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/17/11
Posts: 1271
Loc: uk south
- I'm quite certain the core piano sample set is identical across the x50 range, also the embellishments like reverb and mellow/bright options are probably the same (they're certainly quite adequate on the 150).

Where you WILL hear a difference, apparently, is in the speaker system. The 150's speakers are the least flattering in the range - but I should add, they don't bother me and when using headphones, that difference vanishes.

I looked at your ABF thread and you mentioned wanting to entertain your family. Might that be a good reason for considering the model with better speakers? (I'm not sure which one, someone else can tell you...)

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#2128833 - 08/06/13 07:17 AM Re: Better choice for 600€ [Re: Geo M]
anotherscott Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3213
You could add the Yamaha P35 to your list.

But for best action, I'd say go for Casio; and since all those Casios feel the same and you're watching the euros, the PX-150. Strictly as a piano, the models above are pretty much the same except for speakers.

Originally Posted By: Geo M
Does it matter that both PX-150 and PX-750 have USB connectivity and not MIDI as 350 has?

For use strictly as a piano, it won't make any difference. The MIDI jacks are primarily useful to people who will be gigging with it, and/or those who want to expand its functionality without having to connect a computer (likely mostly the same group of people).

Other than those MIDI jacks and better speakers, the main things the 350 give you are a lot more sounds, drum/accompaniment features, and sequencer/recording functionality. (Though for the price difference, you could also buy some nice software for your computer which would probably give you better sounds and better sequencer/recording functionality.)

But there is one other nice thing about the PX-350, the Audio In. If you like the PX-150/PX-350 action but wish for a better piano sound, you can get that sound by connecting it to a computer and buying higher quality piano software. But you still need a way to hear that new piano sound. With the PX-350, you can feed that piano sound from the computer back into the piano. WIth the PX-150, you'd have to buy speakers to attach to your computer, and then find an ergonomically and aesthetically acceptable place to put them. Though the flip of that is that, as another way to improve the piano sound, you might well prefer to buy speakers that are better than those built into the PX-350 anyway.

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#2129271 - 08/07/13 03:06 AM Re: Better choice for 600€ [Re: Geo M]
Charles Cohen Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/12
Posts: 1304
Loc: Richmond, BC, Canada
Originally Posted By: Geo M
. . .
I am also posting here because my other concern is about the instrument. I need to buy a digital piano or stage piano for the small noise and space, but to feel very much like a real acoustic piano. I don’t want to buy something for now and exchange it with something else in the near future (when I will discover that I need something better). My budget is around 600€ and if a solution of a good instrument (for my needs) was less than that, I would be happier.
. . .


Here's the problem:

. . . A more-expensive digital piano (for example, a Roland FP-80) will _feel_ noticeably better than the DP's in your list, and _sound_ noticeably better than the DP's in your list.

. . . If you don't believe me, find a store that carries
. . . the Roland FP-80 or FP-7F or RD-700NX, or the
. . . Kawai ES7 or MP10. And play them, and listen through
. . . good headphones.

So -- depending on how much value you place on "perfection" -- you might decide to upgrade in the future. Only _you_ can decide if the pianos on the list will be adequate, over the long run, for your needs (and your "wants").

You have a good list. Play them, and if you like one, buy it. And know that you _are_ making a compromise.

. Charles

PS -- bias - I own a PX-350.

PPS -- if it's within your budget, add the Casio PX-850.

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#2129275 - 08/07/13 03:49 AM Re: Better choice for 600€ [Re: Geo M]
Geo M Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/05/13
Posts: 17
Haha, the list of Roland and Kawai gave me fever... and also PX-850 is over my budget actually.
Yesterday I had a chance to go to a music store here in Sofia(Bulgaria) that had the PX-350. According that I have zero experience from pianos or DP's, I loved it. The feel of the keys and weight of them was wonderful and the sound was truly nice. And according to the volume issue was absolutely "appropriate" for my needs.
I also tested a PX-135 (I think it is substituted by PX-150) which had also a good feeling but had these plastic keys which PX-150 has the same as PX-350 (synthetic ebony/evory which feel great)

So, I am thinking if the feel of PX-150 is the same with PX-350, I don't have to spend more money now considering that if in the very long future I would want to get something better, I would go for something much better than PX-350. So buying the PX350 or PX750 right now will not make any difference IMHO.
_________________________
Kawai CN 34

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#2129288 - 08/07/13 04:49 AM Re: Better choice for 600€ [Re: Geo M]
dire tonic Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/17/11
Posts: 1271
Loc: uk south
- yes, plastic instead of the x50's 'ivory' finish (still plastic, of course!). More importantly, the x50 series has a superior mechanical action to the x35.

You won't be disappointed with any of the x50s, the action is the same throughout the range.

Don't worry yourself about outgrowing the keyboard, it will furnish your needs well beyond the intermediate level, although beware of the psychological malaise known as GAS (gear acquisition syndrome) which might lead you to believe you 'need' a better instrument. I've recently been struck down by the condition!

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#2129295 - 08/07/13 05:53 AM Re: Better choice for 600€ [Re: Geo M]
Geo M Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/05/13
Posts: 17
haha...hoping the best for you. Maybe some thing are meant to be...
_________________________
Kawai CN 34

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#2139805 - 08/27/13 06:49 PM Re: Better choice for 600€ [Re: Geo M]
Geo M Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/05/13
Posts: 17
I am back. For a brief update I went to some local stores and tried px130, px350, p35, p105,ydp-s51.
Unfortunately I didn't had the chance to have them all together in the same room, but I got an idea.
The px350 was perfect in feel and sound. On the other hand the 2 yamaha's were also very good. But when I saw thev ydp-s51 I was thrilled. It wasn't something specific, but the look of it in combination with all the above made it more "real".
So I was wondering if this type of solution was better, around 1000 €. This way we could put into the "new list" also the px850 and others that I don't know (pleade make your suggestions).
_________________________
Kawai CN 34

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#2140301 - 08/28/13 03:00 PM Re: Better choice for 600€ [Re: Geo M]
Charles Cohen Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/12
Posts: 1304
Loc: Richmond, BC, Canada
Welcome to "budget creep" !

I was impressed with the Yamaha P155 that I tried out. If it's in your price range, it's a good competitor for the PX-350.

I can say something about the Casio "console" pianos.

The PX-850 has better loudspeakers and amps than the PX-350, and its sound generator is better. But it doesn't have all the sounds, and accompaniment patterns, of the PX-350. I haven't played it. Some people who have, think it's quite good.

The PX-750 is (more-or-less) a PX-150 in a console package. The loudspeakers and amp are better than the PX-150 speakers and amp.

The PX-780 is (more-or-less) a PX-350 in a console package. The speakers and amps are upgraded.

All the "PX-x50" Casios (and the PX-780) have the same keyboard mechanism. So if you liked the "touch" on the PX-350, you'll probably like them all.

Mike Martin (from Casio) occasionally posts here -- he might have some comments.

Good loudspeakers really improve the sound of _all_ the inexpensive slab pianos. If you want to do that, you can either spend money on a console piano, or buy one or two (for stereo) "studio monitors" or "powered PA" loudspeakers for your slab piano.

I eventually got a powered PA loudspeaker for my PX-350. It works nicely. And I can carry everything out of the house (in two trips!).

Good luck with your decision. You're in a price range, and quality range, where there are no "bad choices".

. Charles

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#2142170 - 09/01/13 09:11 AM Re: Better choice for 600€ [Re: Geo M]
Geo M Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/05/13
Posts: 17
Thanks Charles for the info.
I have also read somewhere else that P155 is very good choice, but really this goes over my budget.
I love the compact look of the px750-850 as they are much like a real piano.
So I think now I am more over Casio PX-850 and Roland F-120 which I think I will conclude, if nothing else come to my mind.
I also hope that in this price range there aren't any bad choices, but I am asking over and over just to be sure for my choice.
_________________________
Kawai CN 34

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#2142360 - 09/01/13 04:41 PM Re: Better choice for 600€ [Re: Geo M]
Geo M Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/05/13
Posts: 17
and I am also wondering about the differences of privia and Celviano series...


Edited by Geo M (09/01/13 05:06 PM)
_________________________
Kawai CN 34

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#2142667 - 09/02/13 04:45 AM Re: Better choice for 600€ [Re: Geo M]
Charles Cohen Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/12
Posts: 1304
Loc: Richmond, BC, Canada
Originally Posted By: Geo M
and I am also wondering about the differences of privia and Celviano series...


If you go here:

http://www.casio-intl.com/asia-mea/en/emi/compare/piano/

you can check two or three Casio DP's, and compare their specs.

For example, the electronics of the AP-650 is very similar to the PX-350. The AP-650 has more powerful amps, and (I think!) a "continuous half-pedal" damper pedal.

. Charles

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#2142690 - 09/02/13 07:05 AM Re: Better choice for 600€ [Re: Geo M]
Geo M Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/05/13
Posts: 17
I have checked this comparison page. To agree with you, the Privia have common characteristics (not to say identical)with the corresponding Celvianos (px350/ap650, px850/ap450 etc) and I cannot understand the reason for this. Maybe it's all about the console package so that the Celvianos are "better" and more "good looking" structured and furnitures for house and room aesthetic.
On the other hand maybe I am wrong and the differences between them are more important.
_________________________
Kawai CN 34

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#2143148 - 09/02/13 10:46 PM Re: Better choice for 600€ [Re: Geo M]
Tritium Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/19/13
Posts: 179
Loc: Western MA, USA
Originally Posted By: Geo M
I have checked this comparison page. To agree with you, the Privia have common characteristics (not to say identical)with the corresponding Celvianos (px350/ap650, px850/ap450 etc) and I cannot understand the reason for this. Maybe it's all about the console package so that the Celvianos are "better" and more "good looking" structured and furnitures for house and room aesthetic.
On the other hand maybe I am wrong and the differences between them are more important.


Yes, it is primarily an aesthetic difference. The cabinetry on the Celvianos is a bit higher end. However, the important thing to keep in mind is that they share the EXACT same keyboard (action) and sound engine as the Privia PX-X50 series. The Celvianos also come standard with an adjustable bench. Besides the bench and the higher end cabinetry, the AP-450 is exactly identical to the PX-850.

Also, the Celviano series is only sold through local Casio brick & mortar dealers (in the USA), whereas the Privia series can be bought through many online Musical gear companies (e.g. Sweetwater, Musician's Friend, American Musical Supply, ZZounds, etc.)

The


Edited by Tritium (09/02/13 10:47 PM)

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#2143209 - 09/03/13 01:53 AM Re: Better choice for 600€ [Re: Geo M]
Geo M Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/05/13
Posts: 17
Thanks Trituum for the clarification. It seemed that this would be the answer.

Now, the bad thing for me is that I cannot have a close look at the two models that I am interested (PX-850 and Roland F-120) in any local store. I'll have to trust only my eyes, suggestions and web reviews. Some people are all over Roland as a brand name and quality, and some other to the new technologies of Casio at several points.
Truly is a confusing case for decisions (from the moment that I cannot see them live and "catch" a feel).


Edited by Geo M (09/03/13 01:54 AM)
_________________________
Kawai CN 34

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#2170145 - 10/22/13 03:50 PM Re: Better choice for 600€ [Re: Geo M]
Geo M Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/05/13
Posts: 17
Hello to all.
Guys I am very happy. I made my decision and I ordered the kawai cn 24. I know that it wasn't on my list, or near to my first budget, but this piece got into my hart. I don't know if I made the correct choice, because I hadn't got the opportunity to see it from close, but in a way it seems correct...
_________________________
Kawai CN 34

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#2171019 - 10/24/13 04:08 AM Re: Better choice for 600€ [Re: Geo M]
Geo M Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/05/13
Posts: 17
A payment problem caused my order not to proceed and I had to place it again. Due to this dysfunction, I was "FORCED" by an unknown power to buy the kawai CN-34. I hope I won't regret it.
_________________________
Kawai CN 34

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#2171305 - 10/24/13 02:21 PM Re: Better choice for 600€ [Re: Geo M]
Charles Cohen Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/12
Posts: 1304
Loc: Richmond, BC, Canada
Originally Posted By: Geo M
A payment problem caused my order not to proceed and I had to place it again. Due to this dysfunction, I was "FORCED" by an unknown power to buy the kawai CN-34. I hope I won't regret it.


It will be fine, I'm sure!

. Charles

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#2171333 - 10/24/13 03:16 PM Re: Better choice for 600€ [Re: Geo M]
evamar Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/02/12
Posts: 541
Loc: Spanish living in UK
Originally Posted By: Geo M
A payment problem caused my order not to proceed and I had to place it again. Due to this dysfunction, I was "FORCED" by an unknown power to buy the kawai CN-34. I hope I won't regret it.


I know you´ll be happy with it, that unknown power made a good choice! I've been in contact with several owners and was very close to get one myself after trying it. The touch and sound are brilliant.

Let us know how you find it!
_________________________
Serious since Dec 2013. March 2014, Kawai CA95!

Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted



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#2171345 - 10/24/13 03:35 PM Re: Better choice for 600€ [Re: Geo M]
Geo M Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/05/13
Posts: 17
Thank you guys for the support. Unfortunately, my playing skills aren't going to extract the sound capabilities of this DP. I hope the demo songs will show how it should really like. But in any case I will get you informed.
_________________________
Kawai CN 34

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#2177837 - 11/06/13 04:30 AM Re: Better choice for 600€ [Re: Geo M]
Geo M Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/05/13
Posts: 17
Dear all.

Yesterday my highly anticipated Kawai CN34 R arrived. The assembly procedure took around 20min.
The final result was awesome. I love the way it looks from close. The feel and the sound is also outstanding. I had never heard this model (or any other kawai), but comparing all other DP's I heard through some local stores, it seems that is best by far. Also the volume is as much as it should be for my needs.
I know I have gone way too far from my budget (started from 600€ and landed at 1499€) but I don't regret it. I am very happy that I finally chose this model as it seams to be perfect. I will start lessons right away.
I would like to thank this forum and all people that participate in topics, because through a huge amount of discussions I got great thoughts, tips and suggestions that guide me to my selection.

Thank you all.

Some attached pics for you (I didn't know another way to post them as pic)

Boxes
Unboxing
1
2

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