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Hi, first post on the Forum

I have had the same dilemma - wanted to get back playing the piano after a break of several years

I looked at a whole range of digital pianos but settled on a Yamaha DGX650

I thought I would try this out for a few months and if I keep up practice/hobby could always upgrade at a later date.
I realise it's not ideal.. I was looking at a Yamaha CVP601 but need to justify the amount of use/time I can devote to the hobby....I have several other interests plus a very busy day job

Deal breaker for me was - it is on offer at Amazon for £540 this week. I guess I would get my money back if I want to sell/upgrade in the future, have 2 year warranty and if all that fails, i of the kids can always have it

Paul

Thanks for the information Paul

I've just been offered a CN24 from Thomann for £950, which is the same price as UKpianos, but since you guys seemed a bit iffy about ukpianos I'm more comfortable ordering from thomann.

I think it's between an ES7, CN24 or YDP162 as having the warranty appeals to me.
Will also need some headphones to go with the keyboard, since my current ones are high impedance so I'm looking at replacing them for some thing decent that will be usable with the piano.

You won`t lose a lot of money if you have to sell that; those models hold up better than most on ebay. I have the 630, it`s been great. Simple and effective; recording is easy. Have fun!

Personally I didn't like the YDP162 at all. You might be better with a CL36 or a CN24, or if you really want to move it around, a ES7 or a CL36. You can move those by your own in needed.

Anyway if you are going to need a bench and headphones, I would contact some UK supplier such as Reidys and offer them those 950. Their 999 price includes delivery, bench and headphones as well as warranty. Delivery will be faster too, with an hour window, and they were very open to negotiation when I bought my CA65 from them.

If they don't take it, by the time you add the bench and headphones Thomann is still cheaper and you don't mind waiting a bit longer, go for Thomann.

Not sure who that's in response to?



Fair enough, well as I said, I'll only be moving it a couple of times a year in theory. The ES7 is going to be at least £100 more expensive I think, and it doesn't really seem to have many advantages over the CN24, higher note polyphony (which I probably wouldn't notice :P), it uses the same key system I think, and obviously it's more portable.

I don't need a bench, I think I've got a chair which I could use without too many issues, and headphones wise I would want to either use my current set or sell them and get another decent set, rather than get a cheapish set just for the piano.

I'm leaning towards thomann because they've been helpful, and offered to decrease the price of it to £950 to try and match the others which they didn't have to do (since they don't have an official price match apparently).
May contact reidys though and see what they can offer.
I think the CN24 is the current top dog so to speak.

I would not even consider a console if that were the case for me. The difference in moving them is dramatic compared to something like the ES7.



I would suggest you go to ....

http://www.kawaius.com/main_links/digital/09_dpmain.html

and click on DIGITAL PIANOS, CN24 and ES7, and SPECS (at the bottom) and review them carefully. There are huge differences between these units ... USB Functions (for recording) and Rhythm Section to name two. For the price differential I, again, would not even consider the CN24.

If you have your heart set on a console, go for it. No problem. Just be aware that there ARE differences and they are on paper for now ... but after you purchase it, they will be real.

Good Luck

Oh really? I wouldn't have thought it would be that bad, I assume it couldn't take THAT long to take it apart, maybe a couple of extra hours each time it's moved?

I'm aware there are differences, but I didn't think there were too many that would really affect me.

I don't overly have my heart set on a console, I'd want something stable, which means I'd want a pretty decent stand, which means the cost of the ES7 gets further from the CN24.

I've just been told that the Roland FP-50 may be a better buy as well. I'm considering just ignoring that since at this rate I'll never choose :P

How have you found your audio interface by the way?
What stand would you recommend? Since most of the places seem to show pictures of it in a relatively heavy duty stand, which surely negates the portability?

You are absolutely right and it certainly would not take long to take it apart. It is just the extra hassle of having to deal with the weight of things and getting it into a vehicle that I do not like to face each time. But you seem ok with that so ... it is not an issue for you.




You may be right. They would affect me because I like to record to mp3/wav files and add Rhythmic sounds (bass/drum) to my music. There is no LINEOUT on the CN24 so you cannot run the sound through external speakers (or a mixer) unless you send it from headphone jacks (some say this is not desirable).

But these are things that would affect me. It may not be needed by you. Just be aware there are significant differences between the CN24 and ES7.



I am not sure what you are referring to. My audio interface is listed at the bottom and I have had it for a while now, if that is what you are referring to.



The one that is designed for it from Kawai.

Not at all. I can pick up and move the entire piano with stand. When you disconnect the keyboard from the stand, each part can be handled by a single person easily.

Look, I am not trying to tell you that you MUST get and ES7. I just happen to have an ES7 so I know the quality of that unit. I also have been down the road of having a console dp and needing to move it and sell it. Both of those processes are more troublesome, in my opinion. Not insurmountable, just more troublesome.

Now, if there was something which made the CN24 superior to the ES7, and I valued those differences, I would get the CN24 also. I just happen to feel that the ES7 is better in every way so I would see no reason to go for the CN24 ... unless cost is a significant factor. If that is the case, you have to consider that also ... probably more-so than anything else.

Either way, I am sure if you go with the CN24, you will enjoy it. Kawai makes good machines.

Yeah that's fair enough, it will definitely be more of a hassle, obviously I wouldn't know unless I tried both exactly how much extra hassle :P
I'll be honest, I hadn't looked into the features that much, since at the moment the only things that matter are the touch/feel of the board which I think should be the same between them, but in the future it's very possible I'll end up wishing I had this/that feature.

Yeah, I'm wondering how you have it setup etc, since I need to work out if I want to replace my current headphones, get a cheap amp for the piano so I can use my current ones, or use some kind of audio interface somehow.

Do you mean this stand:
http://www.thomann.de/gb/kawai_hm4_b.htm
I assumed a console piano would be just as easy to take apart as the ES7 on that stand, but by the sound of it they wouldn't be?

Cost is a potential issue, since originally I had a budget of £1000, and the ES7 is £1100+ from most places apart from UKPianos without a stand etc. (it would cost £1350ish from thomann)
Which is £400 over the CN24

But it does look verrry nice....

A console piano is easy to take apart and put together - especially if you've done it a couple of times. But a piano like the ES7 with a well designed stand is far quicker.

But more important, it is made to be dismantled, whereas a console (designed as 'furniture') may suffer loosening of joints and bolting-points by being moved more than three or four times.

edit.... however, the stand for the Kawai ES7 seems to be similar to a lightweight console stand, really...I thought it was a stage-type stand with a single extending foot but it doesn't appear when I google!

Well, the audio interface is used to connect my computer to my mixer and the mixer is attached to my external speakers. I have my ES7 connected to my computer via MIDI to enable me to generate software sounds and those sounds go out to my audio interface, mixer, etc ...

The audio interface would not be involved with headphones connected to your digital piano.

I would not suggest getting a headphone amp for your old headphones. I would just get a good pair that do not need that.




Yes.

And you do not need the 3-pedal unit that is optional with that stand. The stand-alone pedal that comes with the ES7 will work just fine. I have the 3-pedal unit but do not use it because it feels like it is too close to me as I play.

That is something I worried about since I could be moving it that many times in the next year or two.
What type of stand is that? I'm open to using a more 'generic type of stand.


Oh fair enough, yeah that was my original idea, sell my current pair and buy a new set.

A single pedal is all I would need, at least to begin with. I could just get a more generic stand, would save some money and make moving easier.

The stand I thought the ES7 was coupled with was this (or something similar):

http://www.thomann.de/gb/km_18860_spider_pro_schwarz.htm

(there are obviously many other stage stands that would be OK and cheaper, of course - only X stands are, perhaps, less good)

On the other hand, the ES7 official stand appears to be this flat-pack furniture style stand:

http://www.thomann.de/gb/kawai_hm4_b.htm

...I'm not sure that this stand would be more durable than a console style cabinet...Kawai James could perhaps advise on that, or those in this thread who've got this combination.

Yes, you can do that. I would not be in favor of doing that. Number 1, if you get a good solid generic stand, it will not save you much money (if any) and it may be a teeny bit easier to move, but not much. Number 2, I think it detracts considerably from the aesthetics of having a nice looking digital piano in your home. The ES7 with the furniture stand is a very nice looking piece of furniture. With a generic stand under it, it will look like a machine ... to me anyway. Not to mention, it may not be as stable, depending upon which stand you get.

Ron,

You have covered a lot of ground in this thread. From the way it sounds, you are getting squeezed financially with the options available to you.

I might suggest you go back to some of the original options and take the finances out of it. Then you can get everything you need without trying to skimp by with less than nice stuff.

The Casio PX-150, Casio PX-350, Yamaha P155, etc ... options are all reasonably nice options. Then you can get a nice piano bench for it, a nice furniture stand, good phones and you may still be within your budget.

It appears you are trying for "better" but sacrificing quality for peripheral items to make it work financially. Those lesser options are fine.

This would be my choice: http://www.amazon.com/Casio-PX-350-...956&sr=8-2&keywords=casio+px+350

Then you would be finished and would have a very nice system to play with.

Yeah that flat pack style one is the one I've looked at, but as you said, I'm worried it will be no more portable than a console style piano.


I'm only here for another 7 months, then home for a couple (where I won't use the piano since we have an acoustic) and then to uni for another 10 months. Looks aren't a priority right now, although I understand where you're coming from, and stability is definitely a concern.


Is this directed at me? (I can't see any Rons on this page?)
I'll answer it regardless, I can afford to increase my budget, I just start to get worried if it's worth spending that much.
The P155 is the same price as the ES7 basically. Headphones are a separate budget really, since I do have headphones I can use with the piano now (got my cheap headset I use for LANs, and some IEMs I use for work/travelling which would both work). If I want to get decent headphones for it the budget would come from my computer budget and whatever I get from selling my current pair, since most of the time they would be used with my PC.

In that case I would favour the ES7 - it absolutely destroys the P155.

When I was at uni (over 10 years ago...sigh), I had a Technics P50 in my room, placed on a decent stand - great board. If I was in the same position today, I'd opt for either an ES7 (for all-in-one use) or a VPC1 (for hooking up to a computer).

Best of luck with your decision!

Cheers,
James
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Haha, that's the feeling I got (since normally it's more expensive)
You've brought up an interesting point, I've seen the VPC1, it's a similar price (if not slightly cheaper) than the ES7, and has wooden keys which sound interesting, but it's not really been mentioned. Is it because it can only be used with a computer? In theory I guess that would mean I could use it with my current headphones/speakers which would be nice, but might limit usability.

If you can afford it, trust me, it is worth it.

Like I said, I have an ES7 and I have gone through a number of digital pianos in the last 3 years and now I have settled on one that gives me the sound and playability which has ended my search for "better". Now, I just play it.

Good Luck

Correct. The VPC1 does not feature any built-in tone generator - it needs to be connected to a computer, sound module, or another instrument in order for the keys to trigger sounds.

The disadvantage of this is that the VPC1 is not a 'stand-alone' instrument.
The advantage is that users of software pianos or other tone generating hardware are not paying extra for additional features they do not require.

Kind regards,
James
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