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#2131816 - 08/12/13 02:10 PM Prelude in G major
JoelW Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 4151
I hope you enjoy this expressionless rendition of my latest work.


http://musescore.com/user/83619/scores/122911

Any tips for the score? I left out all pedal. Will performers assume NOT to use pedal or understand that all pedaling is their choice?
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#2131853 - 08/12/13 03:09 PM Re: Prelude in G major [Re: JoelW]
Michael Sayers Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/13
Posts: 723
Loc: Stockholms län, Sverige
Originally Posted By: JoelW
I hope you enjoy this expressionless rendition of my latest work.


http://musescore.com/user/83619/scores/122911

Any tips for the score? I left out all pedal. Will performers assume NOT to use pedal or understand that all pedaling is their choice?



I like this one quite a bit as well. Before I clicked play I was hearing the music in my head quite lyrically with Tempo rubato in the range of quarter note = 69 to quarter note = 54, so maybe beside "Tempo rubato" some "(quarter note = x to y)" is needed if you really want the music so fast!

Maybe one could just put "Ped. ad libitum" under the first bar.

M.

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#2131859 - 08/12/13 03:15 PM Re: Prelude in G major [Re: Michael Sayers]
JoelW Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 4151
Originally Posted By: Michael Sayers
Originally Posted By: JoelW
I hope you enjoy this expressionless rendition of my latest work.


http://musescore.com/user/83619/scores/122911

Any tips for the score? I left out all pedal. Will performers assume NOT to use pedal or understand that all pedaling is their choice?



I like this one quite a bit as well. Before I clicked play I was hearing the music in my head quite lyrically with Tempo rubato in the range of quarter note = 69 to quarter note = 54, so maybe beside "Tempo rubato" some "(quarter note = x to y)" is needed if you really want the music so fast!

Maybe one could just put "Ped. ad libitum" under the first bar.

M.


I changed it to "Presto con rubato".

And thanks for the pedaling term. Hadn't heard of that.
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#2131904 - 08/12/13 04:41 PM Re: Prelude in G major [Re: JoelW]
Kreisler Offline


Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13706
Loc: Iowa City, IA
I'd change the meter to either 3/8 or 6/8 to better capture the feel of the piece at that tempo. In 3/4, I'd expect to hear three beats, but I hear this in one beat to the bar at that tempo.
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#2131910 - 08/12/13 04:49 PM Re: Prelude in G major [Re: JoelW]
JoelW Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 4151
I noticed this too after I finished it. I don't have time to completely rescore though. Oh well for now.
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#2134610 - 08/18/13 12:07 AM Re: Prelude in G major [Re: Kreisler]
Polyphonist Online   content
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 6371
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: JoelW

Any tips for the score? I left out all pedal. Will performers assume NOT to use pedal or understand that all pedaling is their choice?

I would definitely not think twice about using pedal heavily in this work. It won't be a problem for a competent performer.

Originally Posted By: Kreisler
I'd change the meter to either 3/8 or 6/8 to better capture the feel of the piece at that tempo. In 3/4, I'd expect to hear three beats, but I hear this in one beat to the bar at that tempo.


I think it's fine the way it is, a la Chopin scherzi.

By the way, Joel - I think it would be a good idea to expand your musical literacy to some composers besides Chopin. Your repertoire is almost completely composed of Chopin, if I am correct, and all of your works tend to sound a bit too much like his. smile
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#2134670 - 08/18/13 04:39 AM Re: Prelude in G major [Re: Polyphonist]
Michael Sayers Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/13
Posts: 723
Loc: Stockholms län, Sverige
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist

By the way, Joel - I think it would be a good idea to expand your musical literacy to some composers besides Chopin. Your repertoire is almost completely composed of Chopin, if I am correct, and all of your works tend to sound a bit too much like his. smile


Joel's music is beautiful and effective - I am confident he is of sufficient musical discernment to craft his own path as a composer.

M.

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#2134726 - 08/18/13 08:51 AM Re: Prelude in G major [Re: Michael Sayers]
Nikolas Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 4994
Loc: Europe
Originally Posted By: Michael Sayers
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist

By the way, Joel - I think it would be a good idea to expand your musical literacy to some composers besides Chopin. Your repertoire is almost completely composed of Chopin, if I am correct, and all of your works tend to sound a bit too much like his. smile


Joel's music is beautiful and effective - I am confident he is of sufficient musical discernment to craft his own path as a composer.

M.
Without wanting to say anything about Joel himself... how do you know exactly? All the works he's shown are very attached to Chopin's music!

How will he take his own path and finds his own voice if he can't let go of a single period in classical music, let alone a single composer?
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#2134730 - 08/18/13 09:03 AM Re: Prelude in G major [Re: Nikolas]
Polyphonist Online   content
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 6371
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Nikolas
Originally Posted By: Michael Sayers
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist

By the way, Joel - I think it would be a good idea to expand your musical literacy to some composers besides Chopin. Your repertoire is almost completely composed of Chopin, if I am correct, and all of your works tend to sound a bit too much like his. smile


Joel's music is beautiful and effective - I am confident he is of sufficient musical discernment to craft his own path as a composer.

M.
Without wanting to say anything about Joel himself... how do you know exactly? All the works he's shown are very attached to Chopin's music!

How will he take his own path and finds his own voice if he can't let go of a single period in classical music, let alone a single composer?

Precisely.
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Polyphonist

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#2134835 - 08/18/13 01:09 PM Re: Prelude in G major [Re: JoelW]
JoelW Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 4151
Thanks, Michael.

About my music:

I'm a little confused. My music sounds nothing like Chopin - except the Mazurka, which is an obvious response to Chopin. "In the style of.." if you will.

The miniatures sound NOTHING like Chopin. My A major prelude, hardly. The G major prelude, maybe a little more, but there's nothing wrong with that. It's called influence. Just look at early Scriabin. Just because my music is on the obviously tonal side doesn't mean I'm "stuck" in anything. I write that way because I like to. I could write more modern, less tonal sounding music all day long, but frankly it doesn't interest me. Keep in mind that this is my first year in my journey of composition. I will change. Let me change on my own. I don't know why you're so eager to criticize my supposed 'lack of a voice'.

Chopin is my favorite composer, but I don't only listen to him. Don't act like you know who I've heard and who I listen to. It isn't wise to assume things like that.

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#2135095 - 08/18/13 11:01 PM Re: Prelude in G major [Re: JoelW]
stalefleas Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/16/13
Posts: 249
This won't load... Did you take it down?

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#2135240 - 08/19/13 08:56 AM Re: Prelude in G major [Re: JoelW]
JoelW Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 4151
_________________________
To each his own.

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#2135537 - 08/19/13 04:32 PM Re: Prelude in G major [Re: JoelW]
stalefleas Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/16/13
Posts: 249
This one is really cool. I think it would sound really cool if you took the same idea you have here (same rhythmic motives, melodic content) but wrote it in minor instead.

Did you have any specific concerns about this? What's great about it is that it really does sound quite finished. There's really no "bleh" sections or parts that sound lazily constructed. It's all very nicely consistent, short, and to the point (appropriately titled "Prelude").


Edited by stalefleas (08/19/13 04:32 PM)

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#2135550 - 08/19/13 05:07 PM Re: Prelude in G major [Re: JoelW]
JoelW Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 4151
Thanks, stalefleas. No, I have no concerns about this piece. I do know what you mean though; I feel that this one's special. Though it is my shortest piece, I feel like it's my most mature work. I find the melody works the whole way through, it's fluid. Nothing sounds forced.

I don't know how I would translate it into a minor key. Because though this piece is in a major key, there are minor elements scattered in it. Perhaps you are suggesting that I invert them? i.e. the piece would start off with a major motif, develop, then end in a minor key?
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#2135604 - 08/19/13 06:49 PM Re: Prelude in G major [Re: JoelW]
Axtremus Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/03
Posts: 6150
Originally Posted By: JoelW
I find the melody works the whole way through, it's fluid. Nothing sounds forced.
Indeed, good work! thumb thumb
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#2137583 - 08/23/13 08:24 AM Re: Prelude in G major [Re: JoelW]
Michael Sayers Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/13
Posts: 723
Loc: Stockholms län, Sverige
Hi Joel,

I just experienced a minuscule revelation.

As you know, there are the "Bach-Busoni" editions, "Schubert-Liszt" editions, and other transcriptions . . . you could transcribe some Wagner and it would be "Wagner-Wagner"! People would probably think it is a misprint on the music programme.

Better yet, you could personally readapt some "Wagner-Liszt" to the piano and get "Wagner-Liszt-Wagner"!!!

Personally I would like to see the reactions of audience members scrutinizing such things on a programme . . .

Please continue your impressive compositional work! Very rich in content, I feel much that is in it . . .


M.

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#2137604 - 08/23/13 08:58 AM Re: Prelude in G major [Re: Michael Sayers]
JoelW Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 4151
Lmao!

Thanks, Michael.

I might consider doing this. I would need to find a piece that could be fitting for solo piano transcription though. I don't know any Wagner. He's one of the only major composers I've never heard. I'm just not big on Opera, yet...

Except Mozart, I love his operas.
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#2137626 - 08/23/13 09:46 AM Re: Prelude in G major [Re: JoelW]
Steve Chandler Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/18/05
Posts: 2629
Loc: Urbandale, Iowa
I like this piece but agree it should be 3/8 or 6/8. The 3/4 of a Chopin Ballade is a major work whereas this is a little prelude, but then again I'm more of a black note composer. This just looks too pale to me.

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#2137634 - 08/23/13 10:05 AM Re: Prelude in G major [Re: Steve Chandler]
JoelW Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 4151
Originally Posted By: Steve Chandler
I like this piece but agree it should be 3/8 or 6/8. The 3/4 of a Chopin Ballade is a major work whereas this is a little prelude, but then again I'm more of a black note composer. This just looks too pale to me.


What's that to do with time signatures?
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#2137836 - 08/23/13 03:55 PM Re: Prelude in G major [Re: JoelW]
ScottM Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/11/05
Posts: 549
Loc: Southern Oregon
It's not bad, but at measure 9 there is a missed opportunity. The tonality tries to change or modulate to a more interesting center and you refuse to let it happen. I think it's a shame, since the first 8 measures are very promising. At measure 9 I have a strong sense you are taking an easy way out, and the rest of the piece suffers badly for it.


Edited by ScottM (08/23/13 03:56 PM)
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#2137845 - 08/23/13 04:11 PM Re: Prelude in G major [Re: ScottM]
JoelW Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 4151
Originally Posted By: ScottM
It's not bad, but at measure 9 there is a missed opportunity. The tonality tries to change or modulate to a more interesting center and you refuse to let it happen. I think it's a shame, since the first 8 measures are very promising. At measure 9 I have a strong sense you are taking an easy way out, and the rest of the piece suffers badly for it.


Pay close attention to the way the tonality varies in the piece. Certain harmonies shift for two reasons: 1, to give harmonic variation. 2, to effectively lead up to the climax.

With that being said, you are welcome to improve it.


Edited by JoelW (08/23/13 04:23 PM)
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#2138060 - 08/24/13 02:10 AM Re: Prelude in G major [Re: JoelW]
Polyphonist Online   content
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 6371
Loc: New York City
By the way, the D# in bar 41 should be an Eb.
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Regards,

Polyphonist

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#2138303 - 08/24/13 01:10 PM Re: Prelude in G major [Re: JoelW]
ScottM Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/11/05
Posts: 549
Loc: Southern Oregon
Here are couple clips where I went a little past measure 9 to show what I mean. These are not necessarily the best or the only alternatives, but they show how the piece can be kept from becoming too harmonically static. Of course there is no expression in these Finale performances.

http://snd.sc/15knYJC
http://snd.sc/1c40xpM
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Scott

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#2138314 - 08/24/13 01:31 PM Re: Prelude in G major [Re: ScottM]
JoelW Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 4151
Originally Posted By: ScottM
Here are couple clips where I went a little past measure 9 to show what I mean. These are not necessarily the best or the only alternatives, but they show how the piece can be kept from becoming too harmonically static. Of course there is no expression in these Finale performances.

http://snd.sc/15knYJC
http://snd.sc/1c40xpM



It's interesting, but I don't agree with either of these examples. I improvised the melody on a whim and the harmonies are just what I hear in my head. They match the melody for what it is. I wasn't going to force tonal variations for the sake of tonal variations. I wrote what came to me. But I appreciate your criticism.
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#2138338 - 08/24/13 02:36 PM Re: Prelude in G major [Re: JoelW]
ScottM Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/11/05
Posts: 549
Loc: Southern Oregon
It's also very hard to accept a new direction when your brain is used to hearing what you've already done. Music tends to become imprinted in our heads. So I'm not bothered by your reaction. I expected it!
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#2138588 - 08/25/13 01:00 AM Re: Prelude in G major [Re: JoelW]
Polyphonist Online   content
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 6371
Loc: New York City
I prefer Joel's original to both of Scott's suggestions, but I still think it can be improved.
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Polyphonist

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#2138597 - 08/25/13 01:22 AM Re: Prelude in G major [Re: Polyphonist]
JoelW Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 4151
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
I still think it can be improved.


Look, a finished piece of music is what it is. I'm very careful when crafting my music and I make sure every note is just the way I want it. If there is an element that you feel can be improved, improve it, come back and post it. Really, please do.


Edited by JoelW (08/25/13 01:54 AM)
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#2138608 - 08/25/13 02:05 AM Re: Prelude in G major [Re: JoelW]
Nikolas Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 4994
Loc: Europe
Well, especially for a two page prelude, if I may say so, the most probable room for improvement is getting on with a new prelude!

As I understand it, these preludes mostly serve the purpose of studying for Joel (And I hope that Joel is picking up enough information from this forum), and not much else. He's very eager to listen (YAY) and very eager to change his habits which is awesome on its own.

Not much else to talk about now in this thread.

looking forward to your next work Joel!
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#2138804 - 08/25/13 02:26 PM Re: Prelude in G major [Re: JoelW]
Steve Chandler Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/18/05
Posts: 2629
Loc: Urbandale, Iowa
Originally Posted By: JoelW
Originally Posted By: Steve Chandler
I like this piece but agree it should be 3/8 or 6/8. The 3/4 of a Chopin Ballade is a major work whereas this is a little prelude, but then again I'm more of a black note composer. This just looks too pale to me.


What's that to do with time signatures?

Joel,

You (and maybe a few others) misunderstood me. By black notes I meant quarters, eighths and sixteenths, the more flags the blacker. I'm referring to rhythmic measures, not black notes on the keyboard. Does that make more sense?

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