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#2133706 - 08/16/13 05:20 AM Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas
Sundew Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/04/07
Posts: 281
Loc: England
I came across this free online course the other day. I've searched the forums and there are posts in Pianist Corner related to it and a thread in non-classical re the Improvisation course, but none popped up for beginners so I thought I would repeat it here. Performance wise they are beyond me, I'm just about to start Clementi Sonatinas, but I've signed up.

https://www.coursera.org/course/beethovensonatas




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#2133707 - 08/16/13 05:29 AM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Sundew]
Sam S Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/12/07
Posts: 1412
Loc: Georgia, USA
I signed up too, some time ago. Hey, it's free!

Sam

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#2133711 - 08/16/13 05:53 AM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Sundew]
Jean-Luc Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/19/12
Posts: 322
Loc: France
Thank you for the pointer smile
_________________________
- Please, forgive my bad English smile

Jean-Luc

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#2133736 - 08/16/13 07:54 AM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Sundew]
EdwardianPiano Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/29/11
Posts: 752
Loc: Liverpool, England
I signed up too weeks ago!
_________________________
"Music is the one incorporeal entrance into the higher world of knowledge which comprehends mankind but which mankind cannot comprehend."

"He who divines the secret of my music is delivered from the misery that haunts the world."


Ludwig Van Beethoven

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#2133738 - 08/16/13 07:57 AM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Sundew]
sinophilia Offline

Gold Supporter until Sept. 05 2014


Registered: 06/26/12
Posts: 977
Loc: Italy
I signed up too! Looking forward to it.
_________________________
Diana & Wally - Yamaha W110BW
Martha Argerich... is an incarnation of the artistic metaphor of the "eternal feminine" that draws us upward. (Sergio Sablich)

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#2133740 - 08/16/13 07:59 AM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Sundew]
Andy Platt Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 2381
Loc: Virginia, USA
Yup, I signed up a few weeks back too. Should be interesting!
_________________________
  • Liszt - Liebesträume No. 3, S541
  • Scarlatti - Sonata in D minor, K. 213

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#2133850 - 08/16/13 01:21 PM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Sundew]
carlos88 Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 01/18/13
Posts: 91
Loc: Colorado
There's also another upcoming Coursera course, coming up in January,

Write Like Mozart: An Introduction to Classical Music Composition

https://www.coursera.org/course/classicalcomp

which I'm looking forward to in addition to the Beethoven course.
_________________________
I'd rather play badly than not at all...

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#2133873 - 08/16/13 02:02 PM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Sundew]
dynamobt Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/07/13
Posts: 672
Loc: NH
How do these work exactly? Are the lectures an audio file that is available online at a certain date? Can you listen to them at any time? Or do you have to tune in at a very specific time for each lecture and if you miss it too bad for you?

I'm just starting work on Beethoven so would really like to take this. I just need to know more about it.
_________________________
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#2133915 - 08/16/13 03:40 PM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Sundew]
PianoStudent88 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/16/11
Posts: 3172
Loc: Maine
dynamobt, this page of Coursera Help may answer your questions. The answer to "Do I need to watch the lectures live?" is:
Quote:
No! All video lectures for your course will be pre-recorded, and you can watch them at your convenience. ​However, our classes tend to be structured with regular deadlines, so you should expect to watch the lectures and do the homeworks on a regular basis.

Your instructor will usually release videos on a weekly basis (for example, all videos for the coming week might be released on the course site each Sunday). Most of our courses have about 2 hours of video lectures per week, broken into 8-15 minute chunks. You can access videos for the current week, and all past weeks, by clicking the "Videos" link the left-hand navigation bar on any of your course pages.


Originally Posted By: dynamobt
I'm just starting work on Beethoven so would really like to take this.

I think they're worthwhile for everyone as general music education, whether one is starting to play Beethoven or not.
_________________________
Ebaug(maj7)

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#2133929 - 08/16/13 04:03 PM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Sundew]
dynamobt Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/07/13
Posts: 672
Loc: NH
I didn't see that "help" link at the bottom of the page. Now that I've gone looking, I see answers to lots of questions. Signed up and am ready to go!! Thanks for sharing the link to these courses!
_________________________
1918 Mason & Hamlin BB





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#2133979 - 08/16/13 06:03 PM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: carlos88]
EdwardianPiano Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/29/11
Posts: 752
Loc: Liverpool, England
Originally Posted By: carlos88
There's also another upcoming Coursera course, coming up in January,

Write Like Mozart: An Introduction to Classical Music Composition

https://www.coursera.org/course/classicalcomp

which I'm looking forward to in addition to the Beethoven course.


Hmmmm very interesting...now I am wondering do you have to be able to sight read to do this course or not?
_________________________
"Music is the one incorporeal entrance into the higher world of knowledge which comprehends mankind but which mankind cannot comprehend."

"He who divines the secret of my music is delivered from the misery that haunts the world."


Ludwig Van Beethoven

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#2135183 - 08/19/13 05:05 AM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Sundew]
Sundew Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/04/07
Posts: 281
Loc: England
It's been years since I took any formal course of education so I felt a bit of trepidation when I hit the join button. I find writing quite difficult, my brain seems to 'freeze', words escape me and I am certainly slower in grasping new concepts. {I think it's age!}. However, if I can't manage it or get on with it I like that I can fade away with no questions asked. I've enrolled on another non-music related course that begins this week.

Edward it's seems a little ambiguous but, based on the statment that having studied an instrument is not a requirement, I think not. smile

Hope to see those who have joined in the course forum.

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#2135287 - 08/19/13 10:36 AM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Sundew]
PianoStudent88 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/16/11
Posts: 3172
Loc: Maine
Sundew, I believe EdwardianPiano was asking about the Composition course, not the Beethoven Sonatas course. I agree that the Sonatas course probably does not expect you to know how to read music. The Composition course is a different story.

The Composition course expects the student to have had a basic introduction to music theory: to be familiar with keys, intervals, chords, and Roman numeral analysis. The preview video for the course shows notation. The question is perhaps how much this can be worked around, or how much facility EdwardianPiano can gain with these concepts and skills in advance, or is willing to learn on the fly during the course.

EdwardianPiano, since the course is free and there's no obligation, you might like to sign up and give it a try.
_________________________
Ebaug(maj7)

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#2135425 - 08/19/13 01:34 PM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Sundew]
Sundew Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/04/07
Posts: 281
Loc: England
Apologies for the mistake , thanks for pointing it out smile

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#2135847 - 08/20/13 09:28 AM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Sundew]
carlos88 Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 01/18/13
Posts: 91
Loc: Colorado
I received more details about the Beethoven course via email yesterday:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas begins on Tuesday, September 3. You will receive an e-mail that day with a link to the class on Coursera.org, where you will be able to watch the first week's lecture videos (about one hour, total) and participate in forum discussions.

The compositions that you will explore with instructor Jonathan Biss include:
• Sonata No. 4 in E-flat major, Op. 7
• Sonata No. 5 in C minor, Op. 10, No. 1
• Sonata No. 12 in A-flat major, Op. 26
• Sonata No. 13 in E-flat major, Op. 27, No. 1 (“Sonata quasi una fantasia”)
• Sonata No. 14 in C-sharp minor, Op. 27, No. 2 (“Moonlight”)
• Sonata No. 15 in D major, Op. 28 (“Pastoral”)
• Sonata No. 24 in F-sharp major, Op. 78
• Sonata No. 26 in E-flat major, Op. 81a (“Les adieux”)
• Sonata No. 30 in E major, Op. 109
• Fantasy, Op. 77

The course will include assignments on weeks two, four, and five. These are peer-graded, providing you an opportunity to learn even more as you evaluate each other's work.
_________________________
I'd rather play badly than not at all...

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#2137719 - 08/23/13 12:44 PM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: PianoStudent88]
EdwardianPiano Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/29/11
Posts: 752
Loc: Liverpool, England
Originally Posted By: PianoStudent88

The Composition course expects the student to have had a basic introduction to music theory: to be familiar with keys, intervals, chords, and Roman numeral analysis. The preview video for the course shows notation. The question is perhaps how much this can be worked around, or how much facility EdwardianPiano can gain with these concepts and skills in advance, or is willing to learn on the fly during the course.

EdwardianPiano, since the course is free and there's no obligation, you might like to sign up and give it a try.


Well I know some of the above on a beginner's level- but as it is free and doesn't start til January and I plan to start the pianoforall course in September I hopefully will be at a level to manage it.
_________________________
"Music is the one incorporeal entrance into the higher world of knowledge which comprehends mankind but which mankind cannot comprehend."

"He who divines the secret of my music is delivered from the misery that haunts the world."


Ludwig Van Beethoven

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#2137722 - 08/23/13 12:48 PM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Sundew]
EdwardianPiano Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/29/11
Posts: 752
Loc: Liverpool, England
Beethoven is not long off! Are you all listening to the sonatas already? I have a Barenboim boxed set of the sonatas. I will be listening to the sonatas a lot to be familiar with them.
_________________________
"Music is the one incorporeal entrance into the higher world of knowledge which comprehends mankind but which mankind cannot comprehend."

"He who divines the secret of my music is delivered from the misery that haunts the world."


Ludwig Van Beethoven

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#2137751 - 08/23/13 01:37 PM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: EdwardianPiano]
synergy543 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/28/11
Posts: 102
Originally Posted By: EdwardianPiano
Beethoven is not long off! Are you all listening to the sonatas already? I have a Barenboim boxed set of the sonatas. I will be listening to the sonatas a lot to be familiar with them.

Barenboim's Beethoven Sonata performances my favorite, he's an exceptional musician and performer. Also, don't miss the Master Classes with Barenboim and Jonathan Bliss. This might give an insight into where the class may be headed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeJoyCn6cGc

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#2137772 - 08/23/13 02:09 PM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Sundew]
PianoStudent88 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/16/11
Posts: 3172
Loc: Maine
I've started listening to all the sonatas.

I'm beginning with a selection of sonatas recorded on fortepiano by Paul Komen. He hasn't recorded all of them, but I'm hopeful that more will be forthcoming.

I'm waiting for a complete set recorded on piano by Jean-Bernard Pommier to arrive, and then I'll listen to those. I'm interested to hear the differences between fortepiano and piano.

I could see myself becoming an obsessive collector of Beethoven sonata sets.
_________________________
Ebaug(maj7)

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#2137787 - 08/23/13 02:32 PM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Sundew]
Valencia Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 248
I just found this too and started listening to the lectures on the Sonatas that will be covered in the course:

http://www.wigmore-hall.org.uk/schiffbeethovenlecturerecitals

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#2137803 - 08/23/13 02:54 PM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Sundew]
sinophilia Offline

Gold Supporter until Sept. 05 2014


Registered: 06/26/12
Posts: 977
Loc: Italy
I'm listening to Barenboim too!
_________________________
Diana & Wally - Yamaha W110BW
Martha Argerich... is an incarnation of the artistic metaphor of the "eternal feminine" that draws us upward. (Sergio Sablich)

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#2137878 - 08/23/13 05:21 PM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Sundew]
PianoStudent88 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/16/11
Posts: 3172
Loc: Maine
I've started a new thread for the Coursera course Write Like Mozart: An Introduction to Classical Music Composition.
_________________________
Ebaug(maj7)

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#2137884 - 08/23/13 05:38 PM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Valencia]
EdwardianPiano Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/29/11
Posts: 752
Loc: Liverpool, England
Originally Posted By: Valencia
I just found this too and started listening to the lectures on the Sonatas that will be covered in the course:

http://www.wigmore-hall.org.uk/schiffbeethovenlecturerecitals



Oh thanks for that! I work funny shifts and at the mo never know from one day to the next when or where I'll be working or going ( or not...) so when I can make a start listening to these at the weekend.
_________________________
"Music is the one incorporeal entrance into the higher world of knowledge which comprehends mankind but which mankind cannot comprehend."

"He who divines the secret of my music is delivered from the misery that haunts the world."


Ludwig Van Beethoven

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#2137887 - 08/23/13 05:40 PM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: sinophilia]
EdwardianPiano Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/29/11
Posts: 752
Loc: Liverpool, England
Originally Posted By: sinophilia
I'm listening to Barenboim too!


I have a boxed set my friend gave me as a gift- the complete sonatas- haven't even heard them all yet! The Master wrote a LOT of sonatas.
_________________________
"Music is the one incorporeal entrance into the higher world of knowledge which comprehends mankind but which mankind cannot comprehend."

"He who divines the secret of my music is delivered from the misery that haunts the world."


Ludwig Van Beethoven

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#2137957 - 08/23/13 08:32 PM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Sundew]
Pianolover13 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/09/12
Posts: 8
Just signed up for this course as well and I am so excited! I took a music appreciation course in college and it really is what made me get back into classical music and I'm hoping this class has a similar effect. Thank you so much for bringing this to my attention!

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#2137974 - 08/23/13 09:36 PM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Sundew]
dynamobt Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/07/13
Posts: 672
Loc: NH
I'd better start listening.
_________________________
1918 Mason & Hamlin BB





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#2138391 - 08/24/13 04:19 PM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Valencia]
synergy543 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/28/11
Posts: 102
Originally Posted By: Valencia
I just found this too and started listening to the lectures on the Sonatas that will be covered in the course:

http://www.wigmore-hall.org.uk/schiffbeethovenlecturerecitals


Valencia, thank you for posting this link. These Andras Schiff lectures are an absolutely amazing resource and a great addition for those taking the Curtis Institute course. I encourage everyone to give these a listen. If you only listen to one, try No.12 Op.26 in Ab (No.14 in Schiff's numbering) as Schiff offers incredible insight that really shed new light on this Sonata for me. It will be very interesting to compare Jonathan Biss's interpretation.

Much appreciated,

Greg


Edited by synergy543 (08/24/13 05:11 PM)

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#2138395 - 08/24/13 04:30 PM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: synergy543]
Valencia Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 248
EdwardianPiano and Greg, glad the link is helpful. smile

I'm a little confused about the numbering on that site. For example it lists the Moonlight Sonata as 16, whereas in this book I have it's listed as 14.

When you say listen to 12, do you mean the one in G major, Op.14 no.2?

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#2138407 - 08/24/13 05:01 PM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Valencia]
synergy543 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/28/11
Posts: 102
Originally Posted By: Valencia
EdwardianPiano and Greg, glad the link is helpful. smile

I'm a little confused about the numbering on that site. For example it lists the Moonlight Sonata as 16, whereas in this book I have it's listed as 14.

When you say listen to 12, do you mean the one in G major, Op.14 no.2?

Yes, I noticed that numbering conflict but didn't pay much attention. If anyone knows why the numbers are different maybe they could explain.

I went by the Opus number and should have mentioned that. I was referring to Schiff's No.14 (hmm? go figure....which in the Jonathan Biss course is No.12...hmm) - Op.26 in Ab ("The Funeral March") with its unconventional variation form. Schiff's comments and analysis (despite his somewhat subdued nature) are extremely interesting (at least to me). The best 30 minutes I've spent in a while.

I think Jonathan Biss's numbers are correct and Schiff's numbering is based on the recordings and not the Sonatas as he's broken up some of the lectures. That's the best I can figure. Here is the numbering system from IMSLP (which is the same as Jonathan Biss's and others I've seen).


Also, the chronological order is by Sonata number rather than by Opus (according to Schiff).

Oh, here are the Schiff Lectures listed by Sonata


Edited by synergy543 (08/24/13 08:38 PM)

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#2138732 - 08/25/13 11:39 AM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: synergy543]
Valencia Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 248
Thanks for this! I will listen to the Op. 26 lecture today. I have a book of the first half of the sonatas, and I notice that it doesn't have Op. 49 1 and 2 in it. In Schiff's list, Op. 49 1 and 2 are numbered sonata 9 and 10 respectively. On the "accessible Beethoven Sonata mvts' thread, Sam S mentioned that there were Beethoven's earliest sonatas and he didn't want them published and used them to teach his students. So perhaps that is why they are not on other people's lists of the Sonatas?

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