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#2133122 - 08/15/13 01:39 AM Re: I think I might want a digital piano.... [Re: Charles Cohen]
Tritium Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/19/13
Posts: 179
Loc: Western MA, USA
Originally Posted By: Charles Cohen
Quote:
I was in a situation similar to the OP when I bought my Yamaha P85. I'm ok with the GHS action, but I wonder what the Casio PX-150's is like . . . can anyone provide some feedback? If the Casio's is better, then I recommend it to the OP.


_My opinion_ is that the Casio PX-x50 action is better than the Yamaha GHS action (P105, and previous models).

But that's not a _universal_ opinion, or even an overwhelmingly-popular one. Different people, different tastes.

. Charles

PS -- bias -- I bought a PX-350.


Agreed,

I tried Yamaha's P-105 and P-155. I prefer Casio's PX-x50 series action...probably in large part due to their 3-contact key sensor, which (IMHO) allows much finer expression and subtlety...as well as, of course, faster repetitions.

I wanted to stay around the $1,000 - $1,500 budget, and ended up purchasing the Casio PX-850. I am very happy with my decision.

However, I agree with Charles...digital piano actions are very much a matter of personal taste. For me, I felt the Casio PX-850 action was superior to the Yamaha models in it's price range.

Good Luck.

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#2133236 - 08/15/13 09:18 AM Re: I think I might want a digital piano.... [Re: Tritium]
GeorgeStorm Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/11/13
Posts: 67
Loc: Gloucestershire, UK
Originally Posted By: Dwscamel
I was in a situation similar to the OP when I bought my Yamaha P85. I'm ok with the GHS action, but I wonder what the Casio PX-150's is like . . . can anyone provide some feedback? If the Casio's is better, then I recommend it to the OP.


I think I just need to work out when/how I can visit somewhere to try some out smirk

Originally Posted By: bennevis
Originally Posted By: GeorgeStorm
Do the headphone jacks tend to be the smaller or bigger ones? (3.5/6.5mm?) Also can they tend to power headphones with relatively high impedance or would I need to use low impedance models?

Had a quick look and it seems like they're designed for low impedance headphones, but I wondered if anyone has any experience using higher impedance headphones, and wanted to hear how they performed smile

I believe the headphone jacks on all DPs are 6.5mm ones, but you can always use an adaptor costing £1 if you need to. But you'll definitely need low impedance headphones - many DPs only give the same output as MP3 players. I've had experience of using Yamaha own-brand headphones in a store with the most expensive Yamaha DP, which, at maximum volume, barely provided enough sound to be heard above the ambient noise.


Hmm ok fair enough, pity.

Originally Posted By: Charles Cohen
Quote:
I was in a situation similar to the OP when I bought my Yamaha P85. I'm ok with the GHS action, but I wonder what the Casio PX-150's is like . . . can anyone provide some feedback? If the Casio's is better, then I recommend it to the OP.


_My opinion_ is that the Casio PX-x50 action is better than the Yamaha GHS action (P105, and previous models).

But that's not a _universal_ opinion, or even an overwhelmingly-popular one. Different people, different tastes.

. Charles

PS -- bias -- I bought a PX-350.


Originally Posted By: Tritium
Originally Posted By: Charles Cohen
Quote:
I was in a situation similar to the OP when I bought my Yamaha P85. I'm ok with the GHS action, but I wonder what the Casio PX-150's is like . . . can anyone provide some feedback? If the Casio's is better, then I recommend it to the OP.


_My opinion_ is that the Casio PX-x50 action is better than the Yamaha GHS action (P105, and previous models).

But that's not a _universal_ opinion, or even an overwhelmingly-popular one. Different people, different tastes.

. Charles

PS -- bias -- I bought a PX-350.


Agreed,

I tried Yamaha's P-105 and P-155. I prefer Casio's PX-x50 series action...probably in large part due to their 3-contact key sensor, which (IMHO) allows much finer expression and subtlety...as well as, of course, faster repetitions.

I wanted to stay around the $1,000 - $1,500 budget, and ended up purchasing the Casio PX-850. I am very happy with my decision.

However, I agree with Charles...digital piano actions are very much a matter of personal taste. For me, I felt the Casio PX-850 action was superior to the Yamaha models in it's price range.

Good Luck.


Sounds like I definitely need to work out how/when I can try some out!

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#2133402 - 08/15/13 02:32 PM Re: I think I might want a digital piano.... [Re: GeorgeStorm]
Brian Lucas Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/04/11
Posts: 995
Personally I think the Yamaha samples are more realistic sounding than the Casio's. If you're going to plug it into something else or use headphones, the P-105 is good. But the upgraded on-board speakers on the P-155 are very much worth the extra cost. Also, action is something that can almost never be recommended. It's so personal to each player. Some like a lighter, more bouncier action. Others (like me) prefer a heavier, more resistant action.
_________________________
-Brian
BM in Performance, Berklee College of Music, 23+ year teacher and touring musician
My Downloadable Video Piano Lessons
My Sight Reading eBook
My Music

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#2133808 - 08/16/13 12:01 PM Re: I think I might want a digital piano.... [Re: Brian Lucas]
El Rustito Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/08/12
Posts: 2
Loc: Tucson, AZ
I must agree with the above poster. From what I've heard and played, Yamahas have a big edge over Casios, whether it's sound or action (though, as said, the action on a keyboard can be hit or miss depending on one's preferences). The P-105 is an awesome piano, but if you can hold out for the P155, it's a great investment.

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#2133840 - 08/16/13 01:03 PM Re: I think I might want a digital piano.... [Re: Brian Lucas]
Tritium Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/19/13
Posts: 179
Loc: Western MA, USA
Originally Posted By: Brian Lucas
Personally I think the Yamaha samples are more realistic sounding than the Casio's. If you're going to plug it into something else or use headphones, the P-105 is good. But the upgraded on-board speakers on the P-155 are very much worth the extra cost. Also, action is something that can almost never be recommended. It's so personal to each player. Some like a lighter, more bouncier action. Others (like me) prefer a heavier, more resistant action.


Brian, have you tried the new Casio PX-X50 series, with their A.I.R sound engine...or are you thinking of the previous -X30 series? Casio's new sound engine is a pretty big leap from the previous generation.


Edited by Tritium (08/16/13 01:20 PM)

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#2133970 - 08/16/13 05:43 PM Re: I think I might want a digital piano.... [Re: Tritium]
Brian Lucas Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/04/11
Posts: 995
Originally Posted By: Tritium
Originally Posted By: Brian Lucas
Personally I think the Yamaha samples are more realistic sounding than the Casio's. If you're going to plug it into something else or use headphones, the P-105 is good. But the upgraded on-board speakers on the P-155 are very much worth the extra cost. Also, action is something that can almost never be recommended. It's so personal to each player. Some like a lighter, more bouncier action. Others (like me) prefer a heavier, more resistant action.


Brian, have you tried the new Casio PX-X50 series, with their A.I.R sound engine...or are you thinking of the previous -X30 series? Casio's new sound engine is a pretty big leap from the previous generation.
I played the PX-850 when it hit stores here. Not bad. Didn't listen with headphones so I can't really tell what was the samples and what was the speakers, but I still think Yamaha has an edge. The new Korg DPs are pretty nice too. Good feel, good samples. Although I will say Casio does seem to be getting better than the previous Privia lines.
_________________________
-Brian
BM in Performance, Berklee College of Music, 23+ year teacher and touring musician
My Downloadable Video Piano Lessons
My Sight Reading eBook
My Music

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#2134165 - 08/17/13 02:25 AM Re: I think I might want a digital piano.... [Re: El Rustito]
jarosujo Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/12/12
Posts: 237
Loc: Slovakia
Originally Posted By: El Rustito
I must agree with the above poster. From what I've heard and played, Yamahas have a big edge over Casios, whether it's sound or action (though, as said, the action on a keyboard can be hit or miss depending on one's preferences). The P-105 is an awesome piano, but if you can hold out for the P155, it's a great investment.


P155 is great investment, but not in Europe. It costs 1200€ + 100€ for stand (1700$). You can get Kawai ES7 for 1350€.
_________________________
Yamaha NP-V80 (sold)
Yamaha DGX640 (sold)
Kawai CL-36
Pianoteq Standard + Intel NUC DC3217BY + Sennheiser HD598 + Fostex PM0.4n + NI Audio 2

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#2134381 - 08/17/13 02:30 PM Re: I think I might want a digital piano.... [Re: GeorgeStorm]
RDW Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 101
Can't comment on the current Casio range, but I'd say the extra you pay for the P155 over the cheaper models is definitely worth it. You can still find it new under your budget - £950 for the P155S (Silver/Cherry) at Rocking Rooster, £50 less at Andertons for a customer return.

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#2134641 - 08/18/13 01:51 AM Re: I think I might want a digital piano.... [Re: GeorgeStorm]
SoftFloor Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 72
Comparing sound without (the same) headphones really means nothing and is really misleading.

But the most important thing is: before you buy anything you must try Casio PX-x50 (not the older ones PX-x30)
Whatever the greatest deal you may get on some Yamaha or Kawai model, just wait until you tried Casio.
If somebody offers you Kawai ES7 for half its price - yes, try Casio before you buy ES7.
BTW, you may try Casio without headphones too - to feel the vibrations in your fingers and how they compare to vibrations (or lack of them) in other DPs.





Edited by SoftFloor (08/18/13 01:06 PM)

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#2135186 - 08/19/13 05:23 AM Re: I think I might want a digital piano.... [Re: GeorgeStorm]
GeorgeStorm Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/11/13
Posts: 67
Loc: Gloucestershire, UK
Thanks for all the posts everyone, I think I'm going to hold off for a little bit, partially because I need to try and find a time/somewhere I can have a play on a couple of models, and also partially to make sure it's not another snap idea I have, which in a couple of weeks I won't be interested in anymore :P

I am really considering the 2nd hand P155 mentioned in the thread though, can get a Yamaha L40 (I think) stand with it as well which might be good.
Would obviously try to get him down on price if I do decide to buy, but £640 isn't too bad from what you guys have said.

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#2160188 - 09/30/13 06:36 PM Re: I think I might want a digital piano.... [Re: GeorgeStorm]
GeorgeStorm Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/11/13
Posts: 67
Loc: Gloucestershire, UK
Finally got the chance to try some this weekend!

Mainly looked at Yamaha models, the P35, P105 and P155.

Not going to lie, they didn't feel/sound worlds apart to me :P Mainly because I haven't been playing the piano recently I think and so any subtle differences were lost. On that note, I'm guessing once I get back into the swing of things, playing regularly I might then start to notice the smaller details.

The prices were (for the basic keyboard with 2 year warranty), £350, £500 and £1100 respectively. I think I would get a 'proper' pedal for it (designed like a normal piano, rather than a small pad), and a half decent stool, along with a stand, which all would obviously add to the price, making the P155 rather pricey frown

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#2160192 - 09/30/13 06:48 PM Re: I think I might want a digital piano.... [Re: GeorgeStorm]
ONfrank Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/27/11
Posts: 98
Originally Posted By: GeorgeStorm
Finally got the chance to try some this weekend!

Mainly looked at Yamaha models, the P35, P105 and P155.

Not going to lie, they didn't feel/sound worlds apart to me :P Mainly because I haven't been playing the piano recently I think and so any subtle differences were lost. On that note, I'm guessing once I get back into the swing of things, playing regularly I might then start to notice the smaller details.

The prices were (for the basic keyboard with 2 year warranty), £350, £500 and £1100 respectively. I think I would get a 'proper' pedal for it (designed like a normal piano, rather than a small pad), and a half decent stool, along with a stand, which all would obviously add to the price, making the P155 rather pricey frown


The pricing of the P155 in Europe is a complete ripoff. The under £1000 models from Casio and Kawai are much better propositions so long as the keys agree with you.

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#2160226 - 09/30/13 08:34 PM Re: I think I might want a digital piano.... [Re: GeorgeStorm]
iceporky Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/26/13
Posts: 151
Loc: Singapore
Originally Posted By: GeorgeStorm

I think I would get a 'proper' pedal for it (designed like a normal piano, rather than a small pad), and a half decent stool, along with a stand, which all would obviously add to the price, making the P155 rather pricey frown


I sold my Yamaha P155 to get a Kawai ES7. I strongly recommend you to have a go at ES7 before committing to P155.
_________________________
Kawai CA95, ES7.

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#2160309 - 10/01/13 04:34 AM Re: I think I might want a digital piano.... [Re: iceporky]
Clayman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/07/13
Posts: 300
Loc: Prague, Czech Rep.
That is only if GeorgeStorm is willing to spend additional 400 quid above his initial budget.
_________________________
-- Zbynek N.

Learning to play the piano since 06/2013 on a Kawai CA-95.

Music is what feelings sound like. ~ Author Unknown

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#2160319 - 10/01/13 05:05 AM Re: I think I might want a digital piano.... [Re: Clayman]
GeorgeStorm Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/11/13
Posts: 67
Loc: Gloucestershire, UK
Originally Posted By: ONfrank

The pricing of the P155 in Europe is a complete ripoff. The under £1000 models from Casio and Kawai are much better propositions so long as the keys agree with you.


I'll probably be happy with whatever I get actually :P Just need to make sure I get something that's good value for money (buying a new P155 doesn't seem to be)

Originally Posted By: iceporky

I sold my Yamaha P155 to get a Kawai ES7. I strongly recommend you to have a go at ES7 before committing to P155.


From a quick google, the ES7 seems to be even more pricey than the P155! frown

Originally Posted By: Clayman
That is only if GeorgeStorm is willing to spend additional 400 quid above his initial budget.


Exactly, at the moment I'm probably leaning towards the P35/105 if buying new (purely based on cost).


Edited by GeorgeStorm (10/01/13 05:20 AM)

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#2160743 - 10/02/13 06:15 AM Re: I think I might want a digital piano.... [Re: GeorgeStorm]
GeorgeStorm Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/11/13
Posts: 67
Loc: Gloucestershire, UK
I've now been offered a DGX-630B with stool and pedal for £500, hadn't looked at that model at all.
But I'm guessing the stand can be taken apart, so it may be quite good when compared to a P105 which would cost more?


Edited by GeorgeStorm (10/02/13 06:16 AM)

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#2160968 - 10/02/13 08:34 PM Re: I think I might want a digital piano.... [Re: GeorgeStorm]
Enthusiast Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/04/13
Posts: 249
Loc: UK
The ES7 on sale at UK pianos at £1136 seems to include the very expensive official furniture stand and triple pedals along with a bench and headphones.
http://www.ukpianos.co.uk/kawai-es7

That looks an excellent deal and is only about £37 above what the P-155 costs on it's own.

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#2161059 - 10/03/13 04:49 AM Re: I think I might want a digital piano.... [Re: Enthusiast]
GeorgeStorm Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/11/13
Posts: 67
Loc: Gloucestershire, UK
Originally Posted By: Enthusiast
The ES7 on sale at UK pianos at £1136 seems to include the very expensive official furniture stand and triple pedals along with a bench and headphones.
http://www.ukpianos.co.uk/kawai-es7

That looks an excellent deal and is only about £37 above what the P-155 costs on it's own.


I hadn't seen that, that does look pretty good, although still seems like a lot of money to me frown
It doesn't look like it actually shows/says what the extras exactly are but I may contact them to try and find out.

As I said above, I was leaning towards going for something nearer the £500 mark, but if you guys think the ES7 is really worth it I may see about being able to afford it.

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#2161065 - 10/03/13 05:14 AM Re: I think I might want a digital piano.... [Re: GeorgeStorm]
GeorgeStorm Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/11/13
Posts: 67
Loc: Gloucestershire, UK
Also what are the opinions on something like the YDP142 when compared to the P series?
Better or worse? If the stand can be relatively easily taken apart/put back together, then I could be willing to go for more that style of DP, rather than a purely portable model like the P series.

Looks like a YDP162 can be had with extras for less than £1000, if it can be taken apart without too many (hopefully none at all!) issues, and the quality will be better since it doesn't need to have the ability to be as portable as the P series, then it certainly appeals to me smile


Edited by GeorgeStorm (10/03/13 05:35 AM)

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#2161172 - 10/03/13 11:55 AM Re: I think I might want a digital piano.... [Re: GeorgeStorm]
gvfarns Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 3484
Loc: Pennsylvania
It's beginning to sound like the YDP162 is what you want. It's the cheapest console-style Yamaha that features the GH action. It's more-or-less on par with the P155, I'd say. The quality will not be better in any way that I'm aware of. Well, perhaps the speakers will be better...but still not particularly good.

The YDP142 is similar, but features the cheaper GHS action and is more comparable to the P105.

As a rule, console pianos are not higher quality than portable pianos of equivalent price/level.

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#2161567 - 10/04/13 04:27 AM Re: I think I might want a digital piano.... [Re: gvfarns]
GeorgeStorm Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/11/13
Posts: 67
Loc: Gloucestershire, UK
Originally Posted By: gvfarns
It's beginning to sound like the YDP162 is what you want. It's the cheapest console-style Yamaha that features the GH action. It's more-or-less on par with the P155, I'd say. The quality will not be better in any way that I'm aware of. Well, perhaps the speakers will be better...but still not particularly good.

The YDP142 is similar, but features the cheaper GHS action and is more comparable to the P105.

As a rule, console pianos are not higher quality than portable pianos of equivalent price/level.


Well, the main reason it sounds like a good idea to me is I'm assuming it will be of a similar quality to the P155 (with the same action), but is £200 less :P (losing some portability obviously).

Fair enough, I was hoping they would be (since they don't have to be portable).

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#2161673 - 10/04/13 10:02 AM Re: I think I might want a digital piano.... [Re: GeorgeStorm]
gvfarns Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 3484
Loc: Pennsylvania
Yeah I'm stuck in US pricing, where the P155 is cheaper than the YDP162. Whichever of those is cheaper is probably the way to go.

Don't forget the new Kawai ES100 as well.

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#2161682 - 10/04/13 10:19 AM Re: I think I might want a digital piano.... [Re: gvfarns]
GeorgeStorm Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/11/13
Posts: 67
Loc: Gloucestershire, UK
Originally Posted By: gvfarns
Yeah I'm stuck in US pricing, where the P155 is cheaper than the YDP162. Whichever of those is cheaper is probably the way to go.

Don't forget the new Kawai ES100 as well.


Yeah, the P155 is roughly £1100 and the YDP162 £900 it seems.

Had a quick google, doesn't seem to be available? How's it going to compare to the ES7?

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#2161685 - 10/04/13 10:34 AM Re: I think I might want a digital piano.... [Re: GeorgeStorm]
gvfarns Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 3484
Loc: Pennsylvania
The ES7 uses an upgraded action and also upgraded sounds. The ES100 is kind of a stripped down ES6, which was the predecessor of the ES7. But then, it's a ton cheaper too.

It's brand new, so I'm not sure when it will actually be purchasable but I would expect pretty soon.

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#2161741 - 10/04/13 01:18 PM Re: I think I might want a digital piano.... [Re: GeorgeStorm]
StarvingLion Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/30/13
Posts: 226
Originally Posted By: GeorgeStorm
Originally Posted By: gvfarns
Yeah I'm stuck in US pricing, where the P155 is cheaper than the YDP162. Whichever of those is cheaper is probably the way to go.

Don't forget the new Kawai ES100 as well.


Yeah, the P155 is roughly £1100 and the YDP162 £900 it seems.

Had a quick google, doesn't seem to be available? How's it going to compare to the ES7?


George, I wouldn't get the overpriced ES7. The overlooked feature that really matters on a digital is whether the keys thump hard (excessive noise caused by hard bottoming out of the keys).

The thumping is extremely annoying to the point that it will drive you away from the instrument. Even some $2000 digitals have terrible thumping.

You shouldn't have to pay a huge premium (eg. ES7) for something so basic.

As for sounds, I think only the Casios still lag behind in providing an acceptable sound generator.

Wait for the ES100.

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#2161745 - 10/04/13 01:26 PM Re: I think I might want a digital piano.... [Re: GeorgeStorm]
gvfarns Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 3484
Loc: Pennsylvania
GeorgeStorm: First rule of digital piano forum is not to listen to anything StarvingLion says, on any subject. It may not be obvious from this thread but he's a hideous troll who knows nothing about digital pianos and just comes around to raise feathers. He is literally the worst such troll I've ever seen, so please overlook his comments whenever they come up. If something he says makes sense, it will be by dumb luck.


Edited by gvfarns (10/04/13 01:36 PM)

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#2161763 - 10/04/13 02:39 PM Re: I think I might want a digital piano.... [Re: StarvingLion]
peterws Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 3888
Loc: Northern England.
"As for sounds, I think only the Casios still lag behind in providing an acceptable sound generator."

You`ll surely be aware that many pianos with the same sound generator are not equal. Not even close . . .SuperNatural is not SuperConsistant across the range; very misleading.

It`ll be the same with the other brands. It`s all in the peripherals! So you need a Peripheral Piano for best results.

I have one . . . Doesn`t sound much like a Concert grand - but I don`t care . . . I like it!
_________________________
"I'm playing all the right notes � but not necessarily in the right order." Eric Morecambe

""

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#2161788 - 10/04/13 03:55 PM Re: I think I might want a digital piano.... [Re: GeorgeStorm]
kapelli Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/26/12
Posts: 407
Loc: Poland
Depending on your need for bells&whisthles, you can also look at the Kawai CL models and Roland F-20 and RP-301

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#2161854 - 10/04/13 06:10 PM Re: I think I might want a digital piano.... [Re: peterws]
StarvingLion Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/30/13
Posts: 226
Originally Posted By: peterws
"As for sounds, I think only the Casios still lag behind in providing an acceptable sound generator."

You`ll surely be aware that many pianos with the same sound generator are not equal. Not even close . . .SuperNatural is not SuperConsistant across the range; very misleading.

It`ll be the same with the other brands. It`s all in the peripherals! So you need a Peripheral Piano for best results.

I have one . . . Doesn`t sound much like a Concert grand - but I don`t care . . . I like it!


Too early to tell about the Roland F-20

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#2161941 - 10/04/13 11:35 PM Re: I think I might want a digital piano.... [Re: StarvingLion]
Tritium Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/19/13
Posts: 179
Loc: Western MA, USA
Originally Posted By: StarvingLion


Too early to tell about the Roland F-20


But not too early for many of us normal, reasonable PianoWorld Forum members to have identified you as a ridiculous troll, months ago. But like a bad penny, you keep on turning up.


Edited by Tritium (10/04/13 11:37 PM)

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