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#2135560 - 08/19/13 05:29 PM datuner reading
trex101 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/15/13
Posts: 14
Loc: Melbourne
Hi,

I just bought a baby grand(Hailun 151) for my wife 3 week ago and out of curiosity i downloaded an Android apps "Datuner" and test it on all the note.



Most of the lower notes are pretty ok, hit within +-5c
From middle to high octave onwards, most notes hit +10c

The question is, are these reading any useful? I know that acoustic piano notes are not suppose to be as exact as electronic notes.

_________________________
Hailun 151

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#2135582 - 08/19/13 06:12 PM Re: datuner reading [Re: trex101]
Silverwood Pianos Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 4187
Loc: Vancouver B. C. Canada


The piano is out of tune which is to be expected following delivery.
_________________________
Dan Silverwood
www.silverwoodpianos.com
http://silverwoodpianos.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/SilverwoodPianosDotCom
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."

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#2135587 - 08/19/13 06:21 PM Re: datuner reading [Re: trex101]
trex101 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/15/13
Posts: 14
Loc: Melbourne
Should the middle and high note be within the datuner "green band"? Or just +-5c like the lower note to be in tune?
_________________________
Hailun 151

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#2135610 - 08/19/13 07:24 PM Re: datuner reading [Re: trex101]
kpembrook Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/10
Posts: 1295
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By: trex101
Should the middle and high note be within the datuner "green band"? Or just +-5c like the lower note to be in tune?


The green line is a generic inharmonicity curve that is typical of pianos. The piano can be successfully tuned with a different curve and in real life the notes will not fall exactly on anybody's curve.

I encourage listening to using a device to determine out-of-tuneness.
_________________________
Keith Akins, RPT
USA Distributor for Isaac Cadenza hammers and Profundo Bass Strings
Supporting Piano Owners D-I-Y piano tuning and repair

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#2135616 - 08/19/13 07:42 PM Re: datuner reading [Re: trex101]
trex101 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/15/13
Posts: 14
Loc: Melbourne
Oic,

I'm just wondering is it due to my room humidity(range from 55-80%) that seem to stretch all my note from middle to high octave : pitch up +10c
_________________________
Hailun 151

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#2135688 - 08/19/13 10:59 PM Re: datuner reading [Re: trex101]
David Jenson Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/22/06
Posts: 2038
Loc: Maine
New pianos are inherently unstable. Get it tuned. Get a base-line from that tuning on the telephone app., then go from there. The advice to learn to hear if the piano is out of tune is the best course. I've never heard of that app., and there's no possible way to know if it's accurate at all. (My guess is that it isn't.)
_________________________
David L. Jenson
Tuning - Repairs - Refurbishing
Jenson's Piano Service
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#2135694 - 08/19/13 11:21 PM Re: datuner reading [Re: trex101]
trex101 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/15/13
Posts: 14
Loc: Melbourne
Thank you for the advice, will record down all the frequency once the tuner came for the 1st tune next mth. That would form a baseline for me.
_________________________
Hailun 151

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#2135700 - 08/19/13 11:33 PM Re: datuner reading [Re: trex101]
phacke Offline

Gold Supporter until November 11 2014


Registered: 10/18/12
Posts: 470
Loc: CO, USA
Originally Posted By: trex101
Oic,

I'm just wondering is it due to my room humidity(range from 55-80%) that seem to stretch all my note from middle to high octave : pitch up +10c


That is indeed way out of the generally recommended range for relative humidity. If you got a user booklet with the piano, or if you can otherwise get one, please check the recommended range for that instrument.

Best wishes-
_________________________
phacke

Steinway YM (1933)
...Working on:
G. F. Hndel: Suite in G minor (HWV 452)
J. S. Bach, Sonata No. 1 in B minor (BWV 1014) duet with violin

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#2135713 - 08/20/13 12:31 AM Re: datuner reading [Re: trex101]
kpembrook Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/10
Posts: 1295
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By: trex101
Oic,

I'm just wondering is it due to my room humidity(range from 55-80%) that seem to stretch all my note from middle to high octave : pitch up +10c


And how do you know that your room humidity is that level -- from a device as accurate as your phone tuner? Unless you are measuring humidity with a real hygrometer such as is used by HVAC folk, you don't really know . . .
_________________________
Keith Akins, RPT
USA Distributor for Isaac Cadenza hammers and Profundo Bass Strings
Supporting Piano Owners D-I-Y piano tuning and repair

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#2135715 - 08/20/13 12:42 AM Re: datuner reading [Re: kpembrook]
trex101 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/15/13
Posts: 14
Loc: Melbourne
Originally Posted By: kpembrook
Originally Posted By: trex101
Oic,

I'm just wondering is it due to my room humidity(range from 55-80%) that seem to stretch all my note from middle to high octave : pitch up +10c


And how do you know that your room humidity is that level -- from a device as accurate as your phone tuner? Unless you are measuring humidity with a real hygrometer such as is used by HVAC folk, you don't really know . . .


I got a hygrometer and record the reading from time to time, seem pretty accurate compare to Australia Bureau of Meteorology reading. It's winter over here now and humidity are pretty high compare to the rest of the year.
_________________________
Hailun 151

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#2135727 - 08/20/13 01:18 AM Re: datuner reading [Re: trex101]
kpembrook Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/10
Posts: 1295
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By: trex101

I got a hygrometer and record the reading from time to time, seem pretty accurate compare to Australia Bureau of Meteorology reading. It's winter over here now and humidity are pretty high compare to the rest of the year.


Meaning that you have put it outside and checked the Met. Bureau report?

Have you done this over the span of a year?

I'm not saying yours isn't accurate -- just being extremely skeptical from having seen identical hygrometers giving radically different readings in the same room and others that simply don't respond at all to changes. Every now and then a cheap hygrometer actually is dead-on, so I'm not saying it can't happen. Some don't even read below 20% -- they just go blank. You might check with a psychrometer setup. Either get a sling psychrometer or make a stationary one with two thermometers. You can get the differential charts online to interpret R.H.
_________________________
Keith Akins, RPT
USA Distributor for Isaac Cadenza hammers and Profundo Bass Strings
Supporting Piano Owners D-I-Y piano tuning and repair

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#2135739 - 08/20/13 01:55 AM Re: datuner reading [Re: trex101]
trex101 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/15/13
Posts: 14
Loc: Melbourne
My hygrometer are place just beside my piano. Reading from inside and outside should be similar i suppose, not saying my hygrometer are 100% accurate but should be around the ballpark figure.
_________________________
Hailun 151

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#2135783 - 08/20/13 05:53 AM Re: datuner reading [Re: trex101]
Mark R. Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/31/09
Posts: 1937
Loc: Pretoria, South Africa
Originally Posted By: trex101
Reading from inside and outside should be similar i suppose


Not at all. That's one of the critical points. In winter, the inside of a home is typically much warmer than the outside, which results in a significantly lower relative humidity inside, i.e. higher RH outside. For example, the same moisture content that gives 70% RH at 10°C only gives 40% RH at 20°C.

@ Keith:
Why would a homeowner want to read RH below 20%? If it's that low, its critically low for a piano anyway.
_________________________
Autodidact interested in piano technology.

1922 49" Zimmermann, project piano.
1970 44" Ibach, daily music maker.

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#2135887 - 08/20/13 10:30 AM Re: datuner reading [Re: Mark R.]
kpembrook Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/10
Posts: 1295
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By: Mark R.
@ Keith:
Why would a homeowner want to read RH below 20%? If it's that low, its critically low for a piano anyway.


It's just a matter of putting a number on how horribly dry it gets here in the Upper Midwest during winter. We have one of the worst environments in the world for pianos. In the summer, it's possible for ambient indoor humidity to reach 80% and in the winter I have measured 12%. It's the cold outdoor temps which might be at a somewhat reasonable 36% but when you raise that zero-degree-F 36% RH air to 70 deg. F indoors, the R.H. plummets. So, we can have a R.H. swing of 60-70% every 6 months.

Wanna come look at our soundboards? shocked (Never mind sticky key service calls, etc.)

It's easy to understand why most of us techs here are Dampp Chaser converts. The difference between protected and unprotected pianos can be dramatic.
_________________________
Keith Akins, RPT
USA Distributor for Isaac Cadenza hammers and Profundo Bass Strings
Supporting Piano Owners D-I-Y piano tuning and repair

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#2135927 - 08/20/13 11:20 AM Re: datuner reading [Re: kpembrook]
Mark R. Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/31/09
Posts: 1937
Loc: Pretoria, South Africa
Originally Posted By: kpembrook
So, we can have a R.H. swing of 60-70% every 6 months.


Good grief! (That being said, the OP is in Melbourne, Australia, which has a "temperate" climate, but is also known for its changeable weather.)

Originally Posted By: kpembrook
Wanna come look at our soundboards?


Umm, I think not. Methinks I'll cry. I've seen what swings from 70% to 30% can do already.
_________________________
Autodidact interested in piano technology.

1922 49" Zimmermann, project piano.
1970 44" Ibach, daily music maker.

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