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#2135751 - 08/20/13 03:16 AM Yuja Wang vs. Page Turner
Allan W. Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/03/12
Posts: 371
Loc: Michigan
Youtube has a nice feature which seems to automatically aggregate videos for a certain topic under one channel, came across this:



Here's the Topic - Yuja Wang channel: http://www.youtube.com/channel/HC9Iw6P_o1fvQ
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Recent adult re-starter... http://www.youtube.com/user/allanw
Kawai MP-10 + Ivory II (pic), Young Chang Y175, 2012 (renting) (pic)

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#2135979 - 08/20/13 12:43 PM Re: Yuja Wang vs. Page Turner [Re: Allan W.]
Evaldas Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 111
Loc: Vilnius
I've also really wanted to post this video and ask some opinions of professionals who have experience with page turners...
Is it appropriate for the pianist not to turn the pages themselves when they're not playing and look that way at the page turner laugh? I really don't know what to make of this video, as I really like Yuja Wang...

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#2135986 - 08/20/13 12:52 PM Re: Yuja Wang vs. Page Turner [Re: Allan W.]
Nikolas Online   content
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Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 5209
Loc: Europe
I don't know if I see much reason in this video... I mean Yuja looked at the page turner, who might have messed up before... :-/ Who knows really... She doens't appear to be overly angry or anything...

The one thing I have a problem with, with page turners, is that a lot of times, they seem to actually NOT know when to turn the page. In Texas my page turner (with Dr. Solomons) messed up at some point. And she didn't show up on the last rehearsal for some reason (which probably would've saved us)... frown
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#2135988 - 08/20/13 12:55 PM Re: Yuja Wang vs. Page Turner [Re: Allan W.]
TimV Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/21/11
Posts: 68
Loc: New York, NY
There were two page turning gaffes in that video. The first was when she was holding notes in the bass and indicated the page should be turned. She maybe could have pressed the pedal and turned the page herself, but there may have been other reasons-- didn't want the additional resonance, etc.

The second gaffe was worse. I watched this without sound, but I could see YW nodding her head asking for the page to be turned. Then she nodded again more vehemently/desperately. The page turner has ONE JOB. Even if you get lost in the score, the pianist will nod.

Yes, I've turned pages for my former teacher. I can be nerve wracking because, as I said--ONE JOB--but if you screw it up you look like a total idiot. And worse, you can botch the performance.
_________________________
--------------------------
Bach WTC 1 #7
Brahms Op 76 #1, Op 118 #5
Debussy Suite Bergamasque

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#2135991 - 08/20/13 01:03 PM Re: Yuja Wang vs. Page Turner [Re: Allan W.]
Piano*Dad Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 10348
Loc: Williamsburg, VA
Then there was the time that I was turning a page for my son, and two pages stuck together. Ooops.

Stuff happens.
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https://www.youtube.com/user/dhfeld/videos

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#2136008 - 08/20/13 01:43 PM Re: Yuja Wang vs. Page Turner [Re: Allan W.]
Kuanpiano Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/06/10
Posts: 2114
Loc: Canada
Compare wih the video of Berezovsky against his page turner?
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#2136016 - 08/20/13 01:57 PM Re: Yuja Wang vs. Page Turner [Re: Allan W.]
bennevis Online   content
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Registered: 10/14/10
Posts: 4805
Thank goodness pianists don't normally have the kind of problem with page turners as depicted in the French movie La tourneuse de pages..... wink

http://youtu.be/OV1dpNYYQVM

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#2136136 - 08/20/13 04:59 PM Re: Yuja Wang vs. Page Turner [Re: Allan W.]
boo1234 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/06/09
Posts: 504
I've seen a page turner knock the book onto the keyboard before.

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#2136147 - 08/20/13 05:09 PM Re: Yuja Wang vs. Page Turner [Re: TimV]
Arghhh Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/31/08
Posts: 1048
Originally Posted By: TimV
The second gaffe was worse. I watched this without sound, but I could see YW nodding her head asking for the page to be turned. Then she nodded again more vehemently/desperately. The page turner has ONE JOB. Even if you get lost in the score, the pianist will nod.


I've turned pages for many concerts, and what you see from the side for someone nodding to turn the page looks different when you're standing and looking down with your peripheral vision. If the performer already has head movements while playing, it is difficult to tell if he/she is nodding to turn the page or if it is just the typical head movements while playing. I've also seen someone mistakenly turn the page when the performer was cuing the other members in the ensemble.

As for the first one, performers will usually prefer to turn their own pages between movements, but apparently Yuja Wang wanted her page turner to do this and hadn't communicated beforehand. I always find it strange that as the page turner I have to ask the performer what their page turning preferences are.

The other faux pas from the page turner was to slap her hand on the page after turning it, thereby obscuring Wang's view of the score.

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#2136151 - 08/20/13 05:10 PM Re: Yuja Wang vs. Page Turner [Re: Allan W.]
Allan W. Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/03/12
Posts: 371
Loc: Michigan
I thought the second gaffe was that the page turner turned too early. I didn't see Yuja Wang making any nod movements before the page was turned. But she put her hand out on the page as it was being turned.
_________________________
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#2136194 - 08/20/13 06:38 PM Re: Yuja Wang vs. Page Turner [Re: Allan W.]
TwoSnowflakes Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/12
Posts: 1022
Frankly, I'm just impressed that Wang is playing with platform stiletto heels. I sat down to practice before going out to dinner the other night in a shoe somewhat similar, and was rewarded every other measure it seemed with a big ol' *CLUNK* as my foot just skated right off the pedal.

Once I had a lesson right before a dinner party in the same heels, and wisely decided to take the lesson in bare feet. But the party dress looked nice, if not a little over-the-top for a piano lesson.

As a young piano student, the GREATEST HONOR IN THE WORLD was getting to the turn the pages for the music director at our school. I took that job so seriously. I just loved being close enough to watch him play and I remember exactly how his hands moved. I actually got the chance to tell him so not long ago when we reconnected on Facebook. Funny how you have impact on kids you might not know.
_________________________
Currently:
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With the pedal I love to meddle; When Paderewski comes this way... -Irving Berlin

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#2136197 - 08/20/13 06:42 PM Re: Yuja Wang vs. Page Turner [Re: bennevis]
TwoSnowflakes Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/12
Posts: 1022
Originally Posted By: bennevis
Thank goodness pianists don't normally have the kind of problem with page turners as depicted in the French movie La tourneuse de pages..... wink

http://youtu.be/OV1dpNYYQVM


I don't play cello, but I'm pretty sure that's not what that thing at the bottom is for.
_________________________
Currently:
Bach, French Suites, No. 3 BWV 814
Brahms, Op. 118 No. 2 Intermezzo A major
Chopin, Mazurka Op. 67 No.4
With the pedal I love to meddle; When Paderewski comes this way... -Irving Berlin

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#2136647 - 08/21/13 02:45 PM Re: Yuja Wang vs. Page Turner [Re: Allan W.]
Koyuki Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/24/13
Posts: 21
Loc: Vancouver
Turning pages is a very serious job, if the page turner screws up, the whole performance is screwed... the page turner will get lost at different places at times, sometimes he/she is daydreaming.

I've been a page turner once, without anyone teaching me, I figured the following:
- get ready to turn the page when the pianist is at the 2nd last line
- fold the corner of each page or make sure you have enough time to separate the pages
- if you get lost, look at the pianist' eyes since he/she will be reading the music, then you can figure out where she is, or find a small area/passage on the music and wait for the pianist to reach there, then you know where you need to pick up
- do not make too many movements to disturb the pianist

I've also had a page turner turn for me, we practiced quite a few times, my pieces only have 2-3 movements and she still messes up... as a pianist, I figured the following:
- you have to memorize the last line before turning the page and first 1-2 lines (just in case your page turner is daydreaming)
- tell your page turner to get up and start preparing when you are on the last line, if he/she doesn't, you know he/she is lost
- my page turner got up when i was on the last bar, then to find that the 2 pages are glued together... shouldn't this be sorted it ahead of time?


Edited by Koyuki (08/21/13 04:59 PM)

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#2136659 - 08/21/13 03:10 PM Re: Yuja Wang vs. Page Turner [Re: Koyuki]
bennevis Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/10
Posts: 4805
My last teacher used to turn pages for me when he plonked down a new piece in front of me and asked me to sight-read through for the first time.

But even he messed up the page-turning (either turning the page too early or too late), forcing me to improvise for a bar or two so as not to break the flow. Or maybe that was his sneaky way of seeing how well I can improvise? grin

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#2136666 - 08/21/13 03:34 PM Re: Yuja Wang vs. Page Turner [Re: Allan W.]
BruceD Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 17823
Loc: Victoria, BC
I had the honour of turning pages for a two-piano performance of Rachmaninoff's Fantasy Suite (Op. 5) for two pianos (a work I greatly love), the two grands being "nestled" as they often are for such performances. I was turning for Piano I, the lid of which opened towards the hall; piano II's lid was open towards the back of the stage. It took me but just a few minutes to realize that I was hearing more of Piano II than of Piano I, but since the score contains both parts, it ended up not being a problem, although initially a little disconcerting. I ended up following both parts, but one at a time.

The only time I got slightly lost I did what was suggested above: watched the pianist's eyes to figure out where she was in the score and then I caught my spot. Luckily for me, I took the task with the seriousness it deserved and didn't miss a page turn, nor was I late or early for any of them.

Page turning is, make no mistake about it, a very important job. I've heard some say that they'd rather perform than turn pages! I'm not sure I'd go that far!

Regards,
_________________________
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#2136676 - 08/21/13 03:46 PM Re: Yuja Wang vs. Page Turner [Re: Allan W.]
albumblatter Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/29/13
Posts: 138
Loc: Maryland, USA
I am unsure how much information I can disclose here, but a couple months ago, I pageturned both for a concert and a recording session of Dvorak's Piano Trios for a major recording company.
The pageturning during the concert proved to be okay and perfect to my relief, but the three-day recording session was quite taxing -- I could only imagine how difficult it was for the musicians. Towards the end of the third day, I started to make a few mistakes and doze off that we all had to take half-an hour break. It was quite embarrassing.

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#2136686 - 08/21/13 04:04 PM Re: Yuja Wang vs. Page Turner [Re: Allan W.]
sophial Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/11/05
Posts: 3443
Loc: US
Love those facial expressions of Yuja's! priceless....

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#2136704 - 08/21/13 04:47 PM Re: Yuja Wang vs. Page Turner [Re: albumblatter]
TimV Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/21/11
Posts: 68
Loc: New York, NY
For a couple of years I was my former teacher's page-turner of choice, for non-academic performances. Mostly it was chamber music. I think he kept asking me because he knew I enjoyed it.

I'm happy to report that I never botched anything. No pages stuck together, never dropped the score into his lap, etc. Part of it is having the presence of mind to ask ahead of time if there's anything special I need to know. Repeats? Cuts? DCaFs or other odd jumps?

But really the hardest one was a 6 hour recording session. For some reason I was far more wrung out than the musicians were. I was a little embarrassed to say it, but I found it exhausting! Much worse than a live concert.
_________________________
--------------------------
Bach WTC 1 #7
Brahms Op 76 #1, Op 118 #5
Debussy Suite Bergamasque

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#2136717 - 08/21/13 05:07 PM Re: Yuja Wang vs. Page Turner [Re: Allan W.]
Nikolas Online   content
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 5209
Loc: Europe
I was in Seattle a few years ago to attend a premier of one of my works (for string orchestra). The program also had Chopin concerto No. 2 (I think it was No.2) and I was asked by the Canadian pianist to turn pages, which I did.

I'm happy to report that I didn't miss a page...

Am I not great and all that? (not sure why I actually posted this here...)
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#2136792 - 08/21/13 07:32 PM Re: Yuja Wang vs. Page Turner [Re: Nikolas]
BruceD Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 17823
Loc: Victoria, BC
Originally Posted By: Nikolas
[...]
Am I not great [...]


Yes; we knew that already! cool
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BruceD
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Estonia 190

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#2136836 - 08/21/13 10:11 PM Re: Yuja Wang vs. Page Turner [Re: TwoSnowflakes]
Joey Townley Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/17/04
Posts: 246
Loc: Los Angeles
I'm glad she wasn't playing Rach's PC #3. mad

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#2136840 - 08/21/13 10:20 PM Re: Yuja Wang vs. Page Turner [Re: Nikolas]
Polyphonist Online   content
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7475
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Nikolas
...The program also had Chopin concerto No. 2 (I think it was No.2) and I was asked by the Canadian pianist to turn pages, which I did.

He played a Chopin concerto, and used the score? wink
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Polyphonist

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#2136870 - 08/22/13 12:02 AM Re: Yuja Wang vs. Page Turner [Re: Allan W.]
Nikolas Online   content
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 5209
Loc: Europe
Polyphonist: Yes. I was curious as well... He DID know it (he hardly glanced at the score, or cared to give me any pointers on when to turn the pages...), but he wanted a safety net...

Bruce: I know you know! :P (I just meant that my story in general has no place here, but felt compelled to post it, because of the need for a score of the pianist...) and found the awesome way to show that...
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#2136955 - 08/22/13 05:24 AM Re: Yuja Wang vs. Page Turner [Re: Allan W.]
drumour Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/08/05
Posts: 848
Loc: Scotland
I heard a lovely (and very well received) performance of Beethoven's 4th for which the pianist, the professor at Sheffield University, used the score. It shouldn't bother people and, if it does, maybe those people should just get over it. I don't want people to miss out on fine performances because of this issue.

John

BTW "professor" in UK is not a generic term for all faculty but the holder of a "chair". Other ranks have different titles like Lecturer, Senior lecturer or Reader.
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Vasa inania multum strepunt.

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#2137073 - 08/22/13 10:29 AM Re: Yuja Wang vs. Page Turner [Re: Allan W.]
izaldu Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 1248
Loc:
You don't want to deal with sloppy turners ... learn the music.

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#2137115 - 08/22/13 11:58 AM Re: Yuja Wang vs. Page Turner [Re: Allan W.]
Dwscamel Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/22/13
Posts: 448
When I participated in Make Music New York's outside keyboard Guinness World Record event this summer, the wind blew away several of my pages as I needed them. I guess my phone was an insufficient paperweight!

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#2137136 - 08/22/13 12:32 PM Re: Yuja Wang vs. Page Turner [Re: Dwscamel]
Allan W. Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/03/12
Posts: 371
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By: Dwscamel
When I participated in Make Music New York's outside keyboard Guinness World Record event this summer, the wind blew away several of my pages as I needed them. I guess my phone was an insufficient paperweight!


lol, was the event videotaped?
_________________________
Recent adult re-starter... http://www.youtube.com/user/allanw
Kawai MP-10 + Ivory II (pic), Young Chang Y175, 2012 (renting) (pic)

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#2137242 - 08/22/13 02:39 PM Re: Yuja Wang vs. Page Turner [Re: TwoSnowflakes]
SBP Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/12/12
Posts: 258
Originally Posted By: TwoSnowflakes
Originally Posted By: bennevis
Thank goodness pianists don't normally have the kind of problem with page turners as depicted in the French movie La tourneuse de pages..... wink

http://youtu.be/OV1dpNYYQVM


I don't play cello, but I'm pretty sure that's not what that thing at the bottom is for.

It's a peg so you can stand the cello up while you're playing it.


Edited by SBP (08/22/13 02:40 PM)
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2012 Kawai K3

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#2137332 - 08/22/13 05:42 PM Re: Yuja Wang vs. Page Turner [Re: SBP]
TwoSnowflakes Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/12
Posts: 1022
Originally Posted By: SBP
Originally Posted By: TwoSnowflakes
Originally Posted By: bennevis
Thank goodness pianists don't normally have the kind of problem with page turners as depicted in the French movie La tourneuse de pages..... wink

http://youtu.be/OV1dpNYYQVM


I don't play cello, but I'm pretty sure that's not what that thing at the bottom is for.

It's a peg so you can stand the cello up while you're playing it.


Thanks! It's true I don't play cello, but I did happen to know what it was for; I was just making a bit of a joke, albeit unsuccessfully, apparently. At one particular moment in the trailer for the movie Bennevis posted, the cello's peg was used less for its cello-propping qualities and more for its, uh...let's just say its more "stabby" qualities. As one unfortunate foot discovered right at the 1:09 mark in quite grisly fashion.

*shudder*

Thanks, Bennevis, for the nightmares.
_________________________
Currently:
Bach, French Suites, No. 3 BWV 814
Brahms, Op. 118 No. 2 Intermezzo A major
Chopin, Mazurka Op. 67 No.4
With the pedal I love to meddle; When Paderewski comes this way... -Irving Berlin

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#2137340 - 08/22/13 06:04 PM Re: Yuja Wang vs. Page Turner [Re: TwoSnowflakes]
bennevis Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/10
Posts: 4805
Originally Posted By: TwoSnowflakes

Thanks, Bennevis, for the nightmares.


My pleasure wink .

I like the way the movie uses the appropriate music to make its, er, point. I won't spoil things by revealing what happened in the end (in case you want to watch the whole movie, which is highly recommended), but I'll just say that it isn't quite what one would expect.....

As they say, revenge is a dish best served _ _ _ _

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