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#2135944 - 08/20/13 11:49 AM Starting playing piano in 2 weeks, what piano to buy from...
RenRen Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/19/13
Posts: 21
Hello everyone

I'm Ren and I decided I wanted to start playing piano.

I was inspired by Youtube Starsinger Christina Grimmie (some of you may know her) who sang/played a lot of covers using a piano before starting her own band and writing her own songs...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcL8zrkBpVQ (this is one of her covers)
She uses a digital keyboard and I found out that she uses a Yamaha PSR 293.

I want to buy one similar to this, I found a Yamaha PSR-E433, is that a good one?
Also, in the video of Grimmie I put above, she has this echo effect while she sings, is that a function of the keyboard?
Echo effect?
Can you plug in a headset to you don't bother others?
And how does a digital keyboard work? You need an adaptor to charge it or something like a mobile phone?

I really want a yamaha keyboard similar to hers :>
Thanks in advance!

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#2135965 - 08/20/13 12:21 PM Re: Starting playing piano in 2 weeks, what piano to buy from... [Re: RenRen]
kilf Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/25/09
Posts: 70
Are you sure that's the keyboard she uses, I did a quick Google and found this

http://cdn.buzznet.com/assets/users16/wh...31310449559.jpg

Which is a pretty expensive synth Yamaha s90

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#2136075 - 08/20/13 03:38 PM Re: Starting playing piano in 2 weeks, what piano to buy from... [Re: kilf]
RenRen Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/19/13
Posts: 21
yeah she has a PSR-293 , the one she uses on the photo is a different one but I think she got the PSR-293 one at age 10, she used that in the beginning for her covers

She got more expensive stuff later on...anyway can you help me out shocked?

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#2136152 - 08/20/13 05:12 PM Re: Starting playing piano in 2 weeks, what piano to buy from... [Re: RenRen]
Charles Cohen Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/12
Posts: 938
Loc: Richmond, BC, Canada
I think you've "cross-posted" to the "Digital pianos" thread. I'll answer here, with a list of things to think about:

First question:

. . . How much money can you spend?

Second question:

. . . Do you want to play classical piano music,
. . . or do you want to play jazz and pop music ?

Third question:

. . . Do you care, a whole lot, whether what you buy
. . . sounds exactly like a "real" (acoustic) piano,
. . . or do you just want the notes to come out right?

Fourth question:

. . . If you're starting lessons, have you asked your
. . . teacher:
. . . . . "What should I buy" ?

More-or-less, digital "pianos" are divided up so:

a) the keyboard _action_ can be "synth-like" (using springs) or "weighted" (using weights). "Weighted" actions are closer to how an acoustic piano feels (and plays), heavier, and more expensive.

b) the _sound_ can be produced by simple electronics (and it won't sound much like an acoustic piano, or any other instrument it's "supposed" to sound like), or complex and expensive electronics (which will sound more like an acostic piano, or organ, or whatever). Usually, more money buys better sound.

I think you'll find a "How to Buy a Digital Piano" documents on this Forum, somewhere. It will be helpful.

. charles

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#2136568 - 08/21/13 11:35 AM Re: Starting playing piano in 2 weeks, what piano to buy from... [Re: Charles Cohen]
RenRen Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/19/13
Posts: 21
I can spend like 300 euros
I want to play classic piano music, but not going acoustic piano I want a digital piano, small and portable..
I have no teacher shocked
I heard synthesizers are more electronic sounds or something, is that true? I'm looking for a digital piano with classic piano sounds
is Yamaha PSR-E433 good?

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#2136606 - 08/21/13 12:48 PM Re: Starting playing piano in 2 weeks, what piano to buy from... [Re: RenRen]
adultpianist Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/12
Posts: 539
I would love an accoustic piano but they are expensive to maintain. I therefore have a Yamaha Digital. It suits me fine because I can record my playing and listen to it to hear how it sounds, but my teacher says do not do that too often. You can also use headphones so you do not disturb others with your 'horrible' practicing sessions over and over again lol. In my case I live alone so the only people to consider are my neighbours and they cannot hear me play which is good but the man below me says it vibrates.

Sometimes for fun when I get bored of playing the same thing over and over practicing, I turn the sound over to organ or orchestra or harpsichord and depending on what you are playing, you have to select the right sound for the right piece. For instance, Chopin sounds awful played in organ mode.

I did not ask my teacher what type of piano I should get. I tried a number of different ones in the store and picked one which had a good feel and weighted keys. Having played a number of different digital and accoustic pianos, I know what feels good and what feels bad so I went for what felt good to me.

Good luck

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#2136630 - 08/21/13 01:50 PM Re: Starting playing piano in 2 weeks, what piano to buy from... [Re: adultpianist]
RenRen Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/19/13
Posts: 21
I have never played piano before, so I'm not sure if I can 'feel' if it's right but I'll have a shop assistant helping me out probably smile
Which Yamaha digitals would you recommend?

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#2136664 - 08/21/13 03:30 PM Re: Starting playing piano in 2 weeks, what piano to buy from... [Re: RenRen]
Morodiene Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 10753
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted By: RenRen
I can spend like 300 euros
I want to play classic piano music, but not going acoustic piano I want a digital piano, small and portable..
I have no teacher shocked
I heard synthesizers are more electronic sounds or something, is that true? I'm looking for a digital piano with classic piano sounds
is Yamaha PSR-E433 good?

The Yamaha PSR-E433 does not have 88 weighted keys, making it an expensive thing to start out with because within a few months you will find yourself limited by not having a full keyboard and not having the weight needed. If you want to play classical, you should look for 88 weighted keys within your budget.

At 300 Euros, I think you'll have a hard time in the brand-new market finding something decent. You may want to consider:

1) Buying a used digital piano

2) Saving up until you have $500 which is enough to get a new Casio PX-120

3) Renting a digital piano from your local piano store. Usually you rent for 6 months and your payments are applied toward the purchase of a few instrument at the end of 6 months. So kind of like layaway except you get to use the piano right away
_________________________
private piano/voice teacher - full time
MTNA member
www.valeoconservatory.com
Petrof 9'2 Concert, Yamaha G3, Roland FP-7, Yamaha MOX6, Kawai MP11

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#2136671 - 08/21/13 03:40 PM Re: Starting playing piano in 2 weeks, what piano to buy from... [Re: RenRen]
4evrBeginR Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/27/09
Posts: 1606
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: RenRen
I have never played piano before, so I'm not sure if I can 'feel' if it's right but I'll have a shop assistant helping me out probably smile
Which Yamaha digitals would you recommend?


I would say either the Yamaha P-35 or P-105 would be a good starter digital piano keyboard. It has 88 weighted keys and options (at extra cost) for stand and 3-pedal accessory, or you could just get a generic X-shape stand and single pedal accessory.

When it comes to digital pianos, there are lots of incremental choices all costing more and more. As a beginner, you won't feel the difference for a while, so something basic like the P-35 is fine for a while. However, as you get better, you start to notice small differences between different piano action designs. Pop/rock musicians often choose something like the Yamaha CP1 ($5,000), but the CP-50 is more like $800 and could be a good choice when you need to upgrade beyond a P-35/P-105. Unlike the P-series, the CP-50 has a graded hammer system, meaning the bass notes are heavier than the trebles across the keyboard like a real piano.

There is a huge range of prices offering different designs and feel, but at the very top in digital is the hybrid system where the digital piano actually has a real acoustic piano action such as the Yamaha NU1 or N1/N2/N3. Finally, a digital piano with a real acoustic action doesn't mean it'll feel just like an acoustic piano. For that, you'll need a real acoustic piano. It's something to think about while you progress. Good luck.
_________________________
Art is never finished, only abandoned. - da Vinci

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#2136696 - 08/21/13 04:20 PM Re: Starting playing piano in 2 weeks, what piano to buy from... [Re: 4evrBeginR]
Charles Cohen Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/12
Posts: 938
Loc: Richmond, BC, Canada
I agree with Morodien

Good "inexpensive" choices would be Yamaha P105 or Casio PX-150.

If you can "rent to buy", those would be better than Yamaha PSR or older Casio models. Better key action, and better sound.

But:i

"Any keyboard" is better than "no keyboard".

. Charles

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#2136828 - 08/21/13 09:45 PM Re: Starting playing piano in 2 weeks, what piano to buy from... [Re: Morodiene]
Charles Cohen Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/12
Posts: 938
Loc: Richmond, BC, Canada
Originally Posted By: Morodiene
Originally Posted By: RenRen
I can spend like 300 euros
I want to play classic piano music, but not going acoustic piano I want a digital piano, small and portable.. . .

. . .
The Yamaha PSR-E433 does not have 88 weighted keys, making it an expensive thing to start out with because within a few months you will find yourself limited by not having a full keyboard and not having the weight needed. If you want to play classical, you should look for 88 weighted keys within your budget.



As I said above, I agree with Morodiene. But:

"Small and portable" -- the lightest, smallest 88-key, weighted action DP's (e.g. Casio PX-150) weigh about 12 kilos, and measure 130 cm x 28 cm. It's not easy to carry around.

A Yamaha PSR-E433 weighs about 7 kilos, and measures 95 cm x 40 cm.

The PSR only has 61 keys, and they're synth-action. So it's a very poor choice for classical music. But it has a bunch of neat features (many voices, multi-track sequencer, etc) that would be handy for _simple_ pop music. [For serious pop work, the "32-note polyphony" limit might become important.]

Now that I have an 88-key, weighted-action DP, my old Korg X5D synth sits in the closet. But if the X5D was _all_ that I had, I'd figure out a way to make music on it. And I'd work out a way to get something better . . .

. Charles

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#2136850 - 08/21/13 10:53 PM Re: Starting playing piano in 2 weeks, what piano to buy from... [Re: Charles Cohen]
Morodiene Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 10753
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted By: Charles Cohen
Originally Posted By: Morodiene
Originally Posted By: RenRen
I can spend like 300 euros
I want to play classic piano music, but not going acoustic piano I want a digital piano, small and portable.. . .

. . .
The Yamaha PSR-E433 does not have 88 weighted keys, making it an expensive thing to start out with because within a few months you will find yourself limited by not having a full keyboard and not having the weight needed. If you want to play classical, you should look for 88 weighted keys within your budget.



As I said above, I agree with Morodiene. But:

"Small and portable" -- the lightest, smallest 88-key, weighted action DP's (e.g. Casio PX-150) weigh about 12 kilos, and measure 130 cm x 28 cm. It's not easy to carry around.

A Yamaha PSR-E433 weighs about 7 kilos, and measures 95 cm x 40 cm.

The PSR only has 61 keys, and they're synth-action. So it's a very poor choice for classical music. But it has a bunch of neat features (many voices, multi-track sequencer, etc) that would be handy for _simple_ pop music. [For serious pop work, the "32-note polyphony" limit might become important.]

Now that I have an 88-key, weighted-action DP, my old Korg X5D synth sits in the closet. But if the X5D was _all_ that I had, I'd figure out a way to make music on it. And I'd work out a way to get something better . . .

. Charles
I think the Casio is probably the best match for what the OP wants. Let's face it: to get a good classical instrument, you need the 88 weighted keys, which means it will be big, and it will weigh more. It's 'portable' in the sense that it's a slab/stage piano vs. a console with a built-in stand.
_________________________
private piano/voice teacher - full time
MTNA member
www.valeoconservatory.com
Petrof 9'2 Concert, Yamaha G3, Roland FP-7, Yamaha MOX6, Kawai MP11

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#2137234 - 08/22/13 02:32 PM Re: Starting playing piano in 2 weeks, what piano to buy from... [Re: RenRen]
RenRen Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/19/13
Posts: 21
I'm going to visit a music store and ask for some information
but I'd like to ask you guys some more things (thanks for the help and advice you've given already btw!)..
What are those 'voices'?
"The PSR only has 61 keys, and they're synth-action" and "poor classic music" so not worth it for what I'm looking for?
"light and portable" is some saying I use :p I'm sorry. I mean a "piano" without a stand or something, you know like those

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#2137400 - 08/22/13 08:44 PM Re: Starting playing piano in 2 weeks, what piano to buy from... [Re: RenRen]
Bobpickle Offline

Gold Supporter until July 10  2014


Registered: 05/24/12
Posts: 1370
Loc: Cameron Park, California
Originally Posted By: RenRen
I'm going to visit a music store and ask for some information
but I'd like to ask you guys some more things (thanks for the help and advice you've given already btw!)..
What are those 'voices'?
"The PSR only has 61 keys, and they're synth-action" and "poor classic music" so not worth it for what I'm looking for?
"light and portable" is some saying I use :p I'm sorry. I mean a "piano" without a stand or something, you know like those


Voices are the sounds (piano, strings, synth, guitar, etc.) that can be produced. Polyphony (which you're likely to come across) is more a marketing term than anything for those like yourself; it means how many notes can be heard when pressed/held simultaneously. As far as key "weights" or "actions", you need a piano with weighted keys at a minimum ("hammer" and "graded hammer" actions are even better), else you'll find yourself needing to upgrade after a few weeks or months. Decent digital pianos often way anywhere from 20-40 lbs not including a stand/desk.

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#2137441 - 08/22/13 09:48 PM Re: Starting playing piano in 2 weeks, what piano to buy from... [Re: RenRen]
4evrBeginR Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/27/09
Posts: 1606
Loc: California
I've tried the 61-key things at the store by various makers, and so far, there's not a single one that is worth anyone's time. The 76-key stuff are marginally better. If I were to choose to practice on a 61 or 76-key thing and not practicing at all, I'll choose not practicing and enjoy the time off. This is why I don't bring a 76-key keyboard with me when I travel for work. They are basically worthless as a practicing tool. Lugging a Yamaha P-35 through security and onto the plane is too much of a pain though.
_________________________
Art is never finished, only abandoned. - da Vinci

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#2137492 - 08/23/13 12:33 AM Re: Starting playing piano in 2 weeks, what piano to buy from... [Re: 4evrBeginR]
Charles Cohen Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/12
Posts: 938
Loc: Richmond, BC, Canada
Up to the time of Bach, organ and harpsichord keyboards tended to have 61 keys, so that's what the composers wrote for. You can play a lot of Baroque music on a 61-key keyboard.

After Bach, the piano was developed. It tended to have larger keyboards. So composers after the Baroque period used the increased range. As I remember, even Mozart ("classical period") uses keys beyond the 61-key Baroque standard. And Beethoven uses them a lot -- he loved the deep bass!

Later classical music -- Chopin, Brahms, etc -- is very frustrating to play on a 61-key instrument.

There are lots of early synthesizers which have 61-key keyboards. And there's a lot of pop music that you _can_ play on 61 keys. But you start getting into "cheats", like making the left half of the keyboard sound like an electric bass, and moving its pitch down 8 notes so it matches the range of an electric bass.

The piano is a difficult instrument to simulate with electronics. It took quite a while for the synth makers to get good piano "voices" (or "tones", or "patches").

Over time, the synthesizer keyboards also got bigger. The current Yamaha MOX series is available as a "MOX6" (61 keys, "synth action" (not weighted)) and a "MOX8" (88 keys, weighted action). The sounds are identical; the "feel" and the range is different.

Here's how I did my "store testing":

1. Play on an acoustic piano -- a grand piano, if possible. Get an idea of how the notes sound, and how the keys feel.

2. Now, put your headphones on. You have headphones, yes?

3. Starting from the least-expensive instrument you're considering, plug in the headphones, adjust the volume so it _roughly_ matches the grand piano. Play a bit -- feel the keys, and hear the sounds. Even as a non-player, you'll hear that some instruments _sound_ more like a "real piano" than others. And some _feel_ more like a real piano, than others.

4. End with an instrument that's a little bit outside your price range. The quality of sound, and keys, improves noticeably as the price goes up. I don't see much point in playing something you could _never_ afford to buy. But there is good reason to play something you could _almost_ afford to buy.

Occasionally, go back to the grand piano -- you want to remember what it sounds like, and feels like. It's the target. Low-priced digital pianos won't hit a bulls-eye, but they'll be close enough for you to learn on them.

Have fun! You're just starting on a long journey --

. Charles

PS -- forgive the musings of an old man . . .

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#2137496 - 08/23/13 12:48 AM Re: Starting playing piano in 2 weeks, what piano to buy from... [Re: 4evrBeginR]
Charles Cohen Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/12
Posts: 938
Loc: Richmond, BC, Canada
Originally Posted By: 4evrBeginR
I've tried the 61-key things at the store by various makers, and so far, there's not a single one that is worth anyone's time. . .


That's true, if you want to play piano. The Yamaha NP-11 is a poor tool for Chopin and Debussy.

But you can make a lot of non-classical music on a 61-key synth/workstation. The MOX6, or Korg Krome 61, has immense flexibility, in spite of its limited keyboard range and unweighted action. They're outside the price range we're looking at, though. More important, using them effectively is beyond the capability of a beginning keyboard player.

I think that saying (or thinking):

. . . "61 keys = junk"

is a little too simplistic.

. Charles

PS - I think that Morodiene may have a MOX6. But it's _in addition to_ her piano(s).

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#2137707 - 08/23/13 12:30 PM Re: Starting playing piano in 2 weeks, what piano to buy from... [Re: RenRen]
RenRen Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/19/13
Posts: 21
Another question....how to those digital keyboards work? I mean do you have to charge them like mobile phones or don't they ehm 'run low on power' or something?? if yes, how? what to buy o.o?

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#2137946 - 08/23/13 08:00 PM Re: Starting playing piano in 2 weeks, what piano to buy from... [Re: RenRen]
4evrBeginR Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/27/09
Posts: 1606
Loc: California
They run on electricity, so you must be somewhere that has an electric outlet to plug them in. I've not seen any that could run on battery except for the ones at the toy store, of course.
_________________________
Art is never finished, only abandoned. - da Vinci

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#2138360 - 08/24/13 03:13 PM Re: Starting playing piano in 2 weeks, what piano to buy from... [Re: RenRen]
RenRen Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/19/13
Posts: 21
K, I found one and am getting it next week, some Yamaha PSR E433 I think idk but i like it smile



laugh thanks for everything guys

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#2138421 - 08/24/13 05:40 PM Re: Starting playing piano in 2 weeks, what piano to buy from... [Re: RenRen]
jarosujo Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/12/12
Posts: 228
Loc: Slovakia
Why on earth would you buy PSR433 if you wanted to buy PIANO ??? Action is day and night different to hammer action used in pianos. I hope you tried it before you bought it.
_________________________
Yamaha NP-V80 (sold)
Yamaha DGX640 (sold)
Kawai CL-36
Pianoteq Standard + Intel NUC DC3217BY + Sennheiser HD598 + Fostex PM0.4n + NI Audio 2

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#2138620 - 08/25/13 03:44 AM Re: Starting playing piano in 2 weeks, what piano to buy from... [Re: RenRen]
4evrBeginR Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/27/09
Posts: 1606
Loc: California
You have chosen an entry-level Yamaha synthesizer. It's not a piano. When you are interested in learning piano in the future, you could consider buying something more appropriate then. Well, have fun with your new toy.
_________________________
Art is never finished, only abandoned. - da Vinci

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