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#2136390 - 08/21/13 03:50 AM Yamaha string sizes printed on the bridge
Upright Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/15/10
Posts: 132
Loc: Germany
I am going to restring a Yamaha U1 from 1978. I will put on Röslau wire. before I put off the strings, I measured the string sizes. Compared with the Röslau data, they were consistently half a size bigger than what was is printed on the bridge.

Examples:
The first number on the bridge is #13. That would be 0.775 mm in Röslau wire. I measured around 0.8 mm which would be #13.5.
The last number is #18, which corresponds to Röslau 1.02 mm, but I measured 1.05 mm, which would be #18.5.

I must confess, that I used only a digital caliper. But I already compared this to a friends micrometer and they measured about the same when testing them out.

I read here in the forum, that the number on the bridge don't match the string sizes. But this was said for the US numbers and it was reported, that the strings where half a size smaller that the number on the bridge.

So I am a litte unsure, what sizes I should actually put on. Can someone give me an advice?

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#2136417 - 08/21/13 05:27 AM Re: Yamaha string sizes printed on the bridge [Re: Upright]
Ed Foote Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 1228
Loc: Tennessee
Originally Posted By: Upright
I

I read here in the forum, that the number on the bridge don't match the string sizes. But this was said for the US numbers and it was reported, that the strings where half a size smaller that the number on the bridge.

So I am a litte unsure, what sizes I should actually put on. Can someone give me an advice?


Greetings,
You have two choices. Either replace the strings with the same size wire that is on there, or rescale the piano. I would personally duplicate the Yamaha strings sizes, as their scales are about as developed as any out there. Seems to me that the Yamaha string sizes are either 1/2 size smaller than American sizes, or the numbers are on the left side of the string sections.
Regards,

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#2136462 - 08/21/13 08:16 AM Re: Yamaha string sizes printed on the bridge [Re: Upright]
Olek Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7904
Loc: France
I'd like to have the answer too. I seem to recall that information that the Yamaha jauge at some point (70's) was a gauge differnt from Roslau.(may be due to Suzuki wire ?)


Now in your case if you use US wire you have much more gauges than Roslau, and you need to rescale.

Older types of Pehlmann wire also was different (but yet in 1900xx the gauge was similar.

Most often the differnces are with the thickest numbers , more where used than today.

HEre is a table of correspondence based on gauges and mm dimensions for differnt types of wire, Mapes, Roslau etc.

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B6GjQDkF_AMQVnRFenpzNDdoSkU/edit?usp=sharing

It could be also that the numbers go the other direction, but this is easiluy determined.

The correspondences that are given from Mapes to Roslau gauges are a little approximates, as you can see in the table.

That said you have more gauges with Mapes, a little like with older wire qualities, and that may help to have a good evening of tensions.

I do not have the MOE for Mapes (there are 2 qualities if I understand well) .
Is this considered a secret?. A bass winder told me it is too hard for him to use (it is a part of the "thunder tone of some Steinway in the basses). That should explain the higher iH levels I noticed on a Steinway I have seen recently (it was so high the soprano section was really undefined)

That kind of high ih work well with soft hammers and focus on the attack, the dwell being a less interesting part of the tone then (less clear and pure)

I seem to understand that the European instruments work almost the other way around, the attack is there to provide energy for the dwell, which in the end may be supposed to provide more variability in tone.

A hard attack is driven in a focused sustain, in some case.

Of course playing with an aggressive touch will then give an aggressive tone.

The higher the iH, the sharper the tone, the more we have to voice the attack.

The less the iH, the nicer the tone, but at some point it may get boring and too straight.
The attack is immediately ruled in the rest of the tone.
iH allow some enlargement, as done when tuning unison, and allow the tuner to play with the immediateness of tone projection.

It is also said that iH re conciliate the human ear and justness sensation, with moderate levels in mediums but a definite raise in the treble, that will fight our lesser perception of high frequencies that gives the impression the tone is not strong enough.

Now this iH level progression from mediums to treble and the global level makes instruments more suited for one style or another. dues to the relation with dynamics, also.


Edited by Olek (08/21/13 08:30 AM)
_________________________
It is critical that you call your Senators and Representatives and ask them to cosponsor S. 2587 and H.R. 5052. Getting your legislators to cosponsor these bills


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#2136934 - 08/22/13 04:16 AM Re: Yamaha string sizes printed on the bridge [Re: Upright]
Olek Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7904
Loc: France
Suzuki = Roslau, if anyone interested
_________________________
It is critical that you call your Senators and Representatives and ask them to cosponsor S. 2587 and H.R. 5052. Getting your legislators to cosponsor these bills


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#2136946 - 08/22/13 04:59 AM Re: Yamaha string sizes printed on the bridge [Re: Olek]
Upright Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/15/10
Posts: 132
Loc: Germany
Originally Posted By: Olek
Suzuki = Roslau, if anyone interested

Do you mean concerning the sizes or should that mean, that Suzuki wire is actually Röslau wire?

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#2137005 - 08/22/13 07:59 AM Re: Yamaha string sizes printed on the bridge [Re: Upright]
Olek Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7904
Loc: France
Gauges are thé same. That idea of gauges being different may come from a reading (or stamping) in reverse direction than usual.
This plus the approximate correspondence between Us "gauges" and metric ones may have suffice for that non confirmed "information"

That said I know now that different wire are used depending of the brand and the series. And the cost of wire.

Discovery a new Germany brand for wire at that occasion..
_________________________
It is critical that you call your Senators and Representatives and ask them to cosponsor S. 2587 and H.R. 5052. Getting your legislators to cosponsor these bills


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#2249465 - 03/20/14 12:45 PM Re: Yamaha string sizes printed on the bridge [Re: Upright]
tannertuner Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/14/11
Posts: 23
Loc: Georgia, USA
I realize this is an old thread, but as far as the wire sizes stamped on the bridge or plate, they usually reflect the direction that the piano was strung in the factory. If you have a number stamped on #88, then wire sizes start there and go towards the tenor because that is the direction the piano was strung in the factory. If there isn't a number stamped on #88, then more than likely the sizes start with the lowest tenor plain wire, and work to the treble.

This can explain why wire sizes might measure 0.005 off.
_________________________
Jeff Tanner
Piano Tuner-Technician; 30 years
Tanner Piano
http://www.tannertuner.com

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