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#2136706 - 08/21/13 04:50 PM The Irmler F160E - only 5'3", made in China, and $36K MSRP?
swampwiz Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/07/07
Posts: 562
Loc: Louisiana, USA
When a 5'6" Estonia goes for $38K? Who in the world would want to save $2K at the expense of 3" and having to go down to a Chinese piano?

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#2136947 - 08/22/13 04:59 AM Re: The Irmler F160E - only 5'3", made in China, and $36K MSRP? [Re: swampwiz]
joe80 Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/09
Posts: 1437
Oh, irmlers are largely pearl rivers, not great ones either, overpriced because of the association with bluthner. They are not comparable to Boston and I don't think its a great idea for bluthner to sell this particular stencil. They'd be better selling a Japanese piano or making something cheaper in their own place.

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#2137067 - 08/22/13 10:13 AM Re: The Irmler F160E - only 5'3", made in China, and $36K MSRP? [Re: swampwiz]
swampwiz Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/07/07
Posts: 562
Loc: Louisiana, USA
I must have a thing for Irmler, as I just went back and read a posting I did on them in 2007, LOL. It seems that they (or at least one of the lines) are a tier 2 instrument, and made in Poland, not China, as that price point website said. So the price differential is not incredibly ridiculous, but still only $2K separating a borderline tier 1 from a lower tier 2?

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#2137092 - 08/22/13 11:24 AM Re: The Irmler F160E - only 5'3", made in China, and $36K MSRP? [Re: swampwiz]
joe80 Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/09
Posts: 1437
HANG ON!!!!!

There IS an Irmler-Europe piano that was made in Poland. The uprights were made by Calisia or something, but the grands badged Irmler-Europe are actually Samicks finished in the Bluthner factory.

The other line of Irmler pianos, called 'studio' I think, are made at Pearl River. Young Chang has also made an Irmler grand.

To be honest, I wouldn't put the Irmler in tier 2. If you forget the price and just focus on the piano, I would put them down as reasonable consumer grade pianos.

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#2137298 - 08/22/13 04:06 PM Re: The Irmler F160E - only 5'3", made in China, and $36K MSRP? [Re: joe80]
Almaviva Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/21/13
Posts: 622
Loc: Richmond, Virginia
Originally Posted By: joe80
HANG ON!!!!!

There IS an Irmler-Europe piano that was made in Poland. The uprights were made by Calisia or something, but the grands badged Irmler-Europe are actually Samicks finished in the Bluthner factory.

The other line of Irmler pianos, called 'studio' I think, are made at Pearl River. Young Chang has also made an Irmler grand.


LOL. Joe, the Irmler line is even more global than that.

The strung backs of the Irmler Europe instruments are made by the Samick factory in Indonesia, the cabinets are made in Poland (presumably at the old Kalisia factory), and then the pianos are assembled and finished at the Bluthner factory in Leipzig. Definitely a "Sooner piano".

The Irmler Studio pianos are made in China all right, but not by Pearl River - I believe Bluthner owns the factory.

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#2137322 - 08/22/13 05:17 PM Re: The Irmler F160E - only 5'3", made in China, and $36K MSRP? [Re: Almaviva]
patH Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/09/13
Posts: 601
Loc: Germany
When I went piano shopping last year, Irmler was also on my list of pianos to try out, since they may be ordered with a silent system.
I tried an Irmler F175E and was disappointed. Especially by the sound. The action was ok, but not better than Yamaha or Kawai.

I had read that the E series was made in Poland, while the Studio series was made in China. I didn't try the studio series.

If the E series had been made by Pearl River, it would have explained my disappointment. Even the Irmler was not as bad as the average Pearl River I tried.
But whatever. Even the longest journeys begin with one step; and Pearl River might catch up one day.
_________________________
Everything is possible, and nothing is sure.
XXXI

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#2137411 - 08/22/13 09:00 PM Re: The Irmler F160E - only 5'3", made in China, and $36K MSRP? [Re: swampwiz]
swampwiz Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/07/07
Posts: 562
Loc: Louisiana, USA
So it looks like the Irmler Europe line is really just a regular consumer grade Chinese piano, with the final assembly and some finishing done by the folks at Bl├╝thner. It seems to me that lipstick on a pig still leaves a pig. Someone would really be sick to his stomach if he had decided on this Irmler instead of the Estonia! At least Steinway prices their Essex line in the ballpark with the cheap Chinese brands.


Edited by swampwiz (08/23/13 09:04 AM)

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#2137572 - 08/23/13 07:42 AM Re: The Irmler F160E - only 5'3", made in China, and $36K MSRP? [Re: swampwiz]
joe80 Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/09
Posts: 1437
Basically, yeah. They are really not very good pianos, no matter who has made them. They don't sound good, they don't feel good, they are incredibly cheap but they are overpriced by the dealers. Sorry I don't have a good word to say about them. I would never put my money there.

If you want to buy consumer-grade Chinese as it were, you can afford something that is actually good quality like Hailun or Brodmann, both of whom make not the best pianos in the world, but certainly the best at the price. In my opinion at least.

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#2137610 - 08/23/13 09:09 AM Re: The Irmler F160E - only 5'3", made in China, and $36K MSRP? [Re: joe80]
swampwiz Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/07/07
Posts: 562
Loc: Louisiana, USA
Originally Posted By: joe80
If you want to buy consumer-grade Chinese as it were, you can afford something that is actually good quality like Hailun or Brodmann, both of whom make not the best pianos in the world, but certainly the best at the price. In my opinion at least.


I got around to trying a Brodmann, and I was impressed - for the money, I would buy a Brodmann before a standard grade Yamaha or Kawai (obvious the Shigeru is in a much higher class.) Oh well, I have an old style Petrof (i.e., the Roman numeraled ones, not the wind named), which I consider to be a cut above any of these "premium" Chinese.

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#2137637 - 08/23/13 10:08 AM Re: The Irmler F160E - only 5'3", made in China, and $36K MSRP? [Re: joe80]
patH Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/09/13
Posts: 601
Loc: Germany
Originally Posted By: joe80
If you want to buy consumer-grade Chinese as it were, you can afford something that is actually good quality like Hailun or Brodmann, both of whom make not the best pianos in the world, but certainly the best at the price. In my opinion at least.

I'd like to include the Wilh.Steinberg P series on the list. They are the Chinese-made pianos I like best, as of today.
_________________________
Everything is possible, and nothing is sure.
XXXI

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#2137861 - 08/23/13 04:46 PM Re: The Irmler F160E - only 5'3", made in China, and $36K MSRP? [Re: swampwiz]
pianoloverus Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19640
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: swampwiz
When a 5'6" Estonia goes for $38K? Who in the world would want to save $2K at the expense of 3" and having to go down to a Chinese piano?
The figures you quoted are incorrect and not really relevant. The correct MSRP's are 38K and 32K, but these should never be used to estimate selling prices.

The current PB SMP's(these are relevant for determining selling price) are 28.5K for the Irmler and 36.7K for the Estonia. Now apply a discount of 10-30% to get an estimate of the selling price.


Edited by pianoloverus (08/23/13 05:13 PM)

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