Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Forum Disappointing post-sales customer service from Bechstein

Ah, very nice. So it's the Academy series. I played an A190 the other day and was very impressed. Too expensive for me to buy, but a very classy instrument. Is your A175 a similar instrument to play as the A190? (Excluding the bass, of course). I can understand your quest for information on the origin of this line because I was curious too and got quite a complex picture. In the end I was satisfied that it was an excellently constructed piano made with premium parts. I'm sure you'll be very happy with your new piano.

very well done custard apple. very very well done!

@ Mark: Thank you very much !

@ Ando: I'm glad you got to try out this series. I tried the A190 too but I didn't want it to take up too much space in my room, and its sound would have been too loud for my neighbours. Also I didn't want to increase my budget again.

Yes I believe my one is the same as the one you tried, only smaller.

Did you try the piano in Melbourne or Sydney ?

I'm encountering the same problem as you, there is no clear information distributed by Bechstein on where parts are sourced and assembled.

Well, here's a bit more about the cultural differences that precipitate this kind of customer "service".

Americans are used to and expect free and friendly "service" as part of the retail experience at every level. Not so in Europe, although that attitude is slowly changing. There are still shops in France that charge retail customers to look at their wares. "Entrée gratuit" is a sign you see on many shop window; you see "tarrif d'entrée" less and less, but it's still there in a few places. And you can't get the help to "help" you either, once you're in the shop.

One of the most frustrating things you can waste your time on is trying to get a French postal clerk to help with anything more complex than selling you stamps. It's not because they're unionized, and they don't hate people on general principal. Rather, they are all acculturated not to help customers. One learns to dread every trip to the post office. Same thing with the stereotypical Paris cafe waiter. Don't annoy them, or you'll just plain never get your coffee. Oh, and they don't smile at the customers. Ever. One learns not to expect it.

It reminds me of how McDonald's had to train Russian employees to smile at customers in their first store in Moscow. This is not a culturally important value to them, and they saw no reason to do it. It took months and months of nagging before before the staff could do it without being told.

I've run across that kind of thing in Spain and Italy as well.

So I'm not surprised to hear about Bechstein. After all, they are a very old school company. They've probably been charging customers for that kind of information for well over 100 years.

And if PW is not a place to air concerns about the piano industry, where would one vent? It's not as if this would go over at all on Yelp.

Soon after my Grotrian was delivered I sent an e-mail to the Grotrian factory thanking them for producing such a superb piano and how much I appreciated that there were still people who take so much obvious care in their work. I received an e-mail back thanking me for thanking them. A reply wasn't necessary but my respect for those Germans grew immensely.

Stuff like this should go without saying.

Is it any wonder that companies that operate like this have [often] full order books and are doing very well?

It shows a different kind of commitment by smaller makers: bigger ones are often busy hashing things out in boardrooms, are travelling or what have you.

Try Estonia and few others, it's exactly same...

[No, am not *hyping*...]

Norbert

I am still wondering what difference the information makes. Either you like the piano or you do not. If it was made a few months earlier or later should not make a difference. Nor should where it was made.

Hey, they wanted to know. Those are very legitimate questions.

Of course you are.

You need to review the definition of "hyping" that I've explained(quoted from the dictionary)to you several times. You seem to think hyping only means exaggerating the truth.

Here's the first listed definition from the first definition given when googling "hype":
1. Excessive publicity and the ensuing commotion

So unless you think your literally many thousands of posts about the brands you sell don't qualify as "excessive"....

Here's the first listed definition that comes up when googling "hype definition":
1. Extravagant or intensive publicity or promotion.

In addition, you continually ignore that if a compamy only produces a few hundred pianos each year, it's not some miracle that they can sell them all. Pointed out to you a few times also.

PL is also very good at making threads …. disappear. Inside joke.


But he is right about Norbie's irresistible urges.

They would be more legitimate before the sale. After the sale, they are needless worry.

There is nothing wrong with healthy curiosity.

"What, me worry?" Alfred E. Newman had it right!

Exactly!

Bechstein may be sensitive about moves within the European Union to label consumer products with country of origin.

At present they will be able to put "Made in Germany" on their "Bechstein" brand (B models replacing the A-Academy series, as I understand it) because they are assembled in Germany.

There is now a suggestion from some quarters that the country should be the one contributing the most value to the product. As a significant element of Bechstein's strategy is to reduce the cost of parts, those same "Bechstein" pianos might have to be labelled "Made in China" one day.

I don't think that Bechstein is unusual in not listing the countries of origin of all the component parts in its pianos, is it?

Difficult to believe what I'm reading here.
Having lived and worked in France for more years than I care to remember, and also having widely traveled within France, I can honestly say I have never, ever seen a store with a Tarif d'entrée sign outside or inside. In the largest cities, Paris, Marseille, Lyon, Toulouse etc, the very high-end stores, exclusive jewelers, or antique dealers may have an outside security device to press which allows entry, and once inside, one is fairly quickly greeted by a sales-person. However, purchases are not compulsory, a tip is not required, and there would be no charge for entry - don't let others convince you otherwise! There may be a store which is an exception to the rule, but I wouldn't know where. Even a specialist store which may not be open during regular hours, and where one may have to make an appointment would not generally demand an entrance fee - with the exception of the Pigalle area after hours of course....
A number of stores do indeed still display an "Entrée Libre" sign, but this traditionally for many years has signified that one is welcome to enter and freely (librement) browse around the store, normally without any intervention from sales staff.

French postal clerks can be very helpful, especially if as a visitor one makes a little effort to speak French. Over the last few years the PTT or La Poste, have met with more and more competition from the private sector, and most employees in a customer-facing role now have clearly defined sales targets and are monitored in providing improved customer satisfaction. As Dylan would say, "Times they are a changing."

I do however, generally agree with the above remarks on the stereotypical Paris cafe waiter, devoid of a smile or a pleasant greeting. If I am ever greeted with a "Passer une bonne journée" (have a good day) from a French waiter, I will immediately donate my piano to the local thrift shop! I'm on a safe bet here, I know it will never happen.

IMHO piano salesmen tend to be very similar the world over, France being no exception. To the neophyte piano buyer/player, they may come across as knowing everything, but like beauty - is only skin deep. Finding one who really knows his stuff is the exception rather than the rule. Frequently a brand that is not sold by the store is talked-down upon, and another (often inferior) is promoted as being better. If one asks to speak to the boss things can improve, but not always. French cowboy piano operators do exist. Believe me, I've met a few, and they shoot from the hip!

I think sometimes people visit a place once or twice and then decide they've got the whole culture and its people figured out based on minimal experience. What's that called again? Oh yeah--stereotyping (although they would never use that word. They use the word "culture" instead)

To the OP. I'm glad you got the info you desired. However I think feeling entitled to that info is in error. You paid for A PIANO, and possibly the warranty that came with it. Just because we give $1 or $100,000 to a company for a product doesn't mean we're entitled to anything after the transaction. Oh I know we can all sit here indignantly complaining about customer service feeling entitled to have our derrières kissed because we were kind enough to purchase a piano from THAT company, but when it comes down to it, IMO, you made a TRADE: Your money for their piano (and warranty). After that, they don't owe you anything.

No, Bechstein is not unusual in that department. Most products today do not list country of origin of all components.

But as a high end maker, they have a bigger perceptional issue defending against charges of cheapening the brand if they source parts. Though one could easily argue the case, it's easier not to.

Firms usually report the sourcing of parts if they think the information offers an advantage in marketing, or if they are required to do so by law.

Look on the window stickers of Toyotas or BMWs, for instance. Everyone knows that autos are world products, so it's not a shock for people to discover that cars are sourced from everywhere. In the Toyota case, you will often see American content percentages posted so that Toyota can convince anti-trade consumers that their cars really have a lot of American content. German makers often want to convince buyers that although some of the content may come from the US, the engine (or whatever) still comes from Germany. It's a perception game.

You are absolutely right. No one has a right to expect any service that is not explicitly written into a legally enforceable contract. Boy am I glad I worked with people who were generous toward purchasers, and who did not at all share your attitude.