Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) Pianoteq
Latest Pianoteq add-on instrument: U4 upright piano
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
PianoSupplies.com (150)
Piano Accessories Music Related Gifts Piano Tuning Equipment Piano Moving Equipment
We now offer Gift Certificates in our online store!
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Piano
Quick Links to Useful Stuff
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano Accessories
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
#2138073 - 08/24/13 02:58 AM Could Glenn Gould Have Beaten Cliburn At the 1958 Tchaikov?
Joey Townley Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/17/04
Posts: 247
Loc: Los Angeles
Just finished watching the film "Genius Within" about Glenn Gould and there was an extended section about his extremely successful Russian tour in May of 1957. He apparently had so captured the hearts of Russians that the promoters had to add concerts just to fill the demand and concerts were always standing room only.

Gould might have paved the way for Cliburn in the sense that Cliburn couldn't have won the hearts of the Russians he way he did had Gould not wowed them the year before. And in terms of musicianship I think Gould had Cliburn beat hands down.

So what's the consensus? Could Gould have beaten Cliburn had he entered? And the real mystery is why didn't he? confused

Top
Ad 800 (Pearl River)
Pearl River World's Best Selling Piano
#2138078 - 08/24/13 03:08 AM Re: Could Glenn Gould Have Beaten Cliburn At the 1958 Tchaikov? [Re: Joey Townley]
FSO Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/03/12
Posts: 854
Loc: UK, Brighton
Personally, I believe he could have....as for why he didn't, well, as he got older so too did his philosophy of a 0:1 artist relationship grow. In short, he didn't want to be that spectacle on the stage, that distraction from the reality of the music he played...um...Gould was no mere pianist, remember; he was a musician!
Xxx
_________________________
Sometimes, we all just need to be shown a little kindness <3

Top
#2138082 - 08/24/13 03:13 AM Re: Could Glenn Gould Have Beaten Cliburn At the 1958 Tchaikov? [Re: Joey Townley]
fnork Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/01/04
Posts: 1758
Loc: Helsinki, finland
not just that - the repertoire needed for the tchai....SOOOO not down GG's alley.
_________________________
http://www.martinmalmgren.com/

Top
#2138096 - 08/24/13 04:30 AM Re: Could Glenn Gould Have Beaten Cliburn At the 1958 Tchaikov? [Re: Joey Townley]
bennevis Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/10
Posts: 5158
Has Gould ever played (or attempted to play) a Rach or Tchaik or Prok concerto?

If he did, would you want to listen to it (well, I would, but only to see what damage he could inflict on it..... wink )?
_________________________
"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."

Top
#2138102 - 08/24/13 05:01 AM Re: Could Glenn Gould Have Beaten Cliburn At the 1958 Tchaikov? [Re: Joey Townley]
stores Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 6646
Loc: Here, as opposed to there
Originally Posted By: Joey Townley
in terms of musicianship I think Gould had Cliburn beat hands down.



-11111111111111
_________________________

"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."

♪ ≠ $


Top
#2138119 - 08/24/13 06:32 AM Re: Could Glenn Gould Have Beaten Cliburn At the 1958 Tchaikov? [Re: Joey Townley]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19786
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Joey Townley
....in terms of musicianship I think Gould had Cliburn beat hands down.

Well, first you'd have to define musicianship (which I know has been getting a workout elsewhere), although I think it would be hard to find a definition by which many people would agree with that. In fact, if anything Gould, for all his gifts, probably fares relatively poorly, not well, on common concepts of "musicianship."

Quote:
Could Gould have beaten Cliburn had he entered?

No, and I think it's possible he wouldn't have gotten out of the 1st round. For the same reason as the above, I don't see him as someone who would have done particularly well in competitions.

Top
#2138147 - 08/24/13 08:38 AM Re: Could Glenn Gould Have Beaten Cliburn At the 1958 Tchaikov? [Re: Joey Townley]
Jeff Clef Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/05/08
Posts: 4417
Loc: San Jose, CA
Be that as it may--- and comparisons are, as usual, odious--- my personal bemusement continues, about how Russia, for all its greatness at producing composers and performers, has no ability to make fine pianos. This, even though they're one of the last countries in the world with the forests to support such an industry.
_________________________
Clef


Top
#2138159 - 08/24/13 09:16 AM Re: Could Glenn Gould Have Beaten Cliburn At the 1958 Tchaikov? [Re: stores]
Old Man Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/04/12
Posts: 777
Loc: Michigan, USA
Originally Posted By: stores
Originally Posted By: Joey Townley
in terms of musicianship I think Gould had Cliburn beat hands down.

-11111111111111

Are you sure? I'm sensing some ambivalence.

Top
#2138164 - 08/24/13 09:26 AM Re: Could Glenn Gould Have Beaten Cliburn At the 1958 Tchaikov? [Re: Mark_C]
Keith D Kerman Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/12/03
Posts: 3328
Loc: Gaithersburg, MD (Washington D...
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: Joey Townley
....in terms of musicianship I think Gould had Cliburn beat hands down.

Well, first you'd have to define musicianship (which I know has been getting a workout elsewhere), although I think it would be hard to find a definition by which many people would agree with that. In fact, if anything Gould, for all his gifts, probably fares relatively poorly, not well, on common concepts of "musicianship."


Yeesh. I can see someone questioning Gould's choices and taste. I guess I'd need to know what you mean by common concept of musicianship, but I'd say that Gould's musicianship was as good as it gets.

Quote:
Could Gould have beaten Cliburn had he entered?

No, and I think it's possible he wouldn't have gotten out of the 1st round. For the same reason as the above, I don't see him as someone who would have done particularly well in competitions. [/quote]

I think it is possible that Gould could have beaten Cliburn although very very unlikely. I know Richter was on the jury, but I'd have to look up the others. The only reason that I say it is remotely possible is that maybe Gould live was so compelling and exciting, that it might have overcome his unusual choices. You know the audience would have gone crazy for him, and if you listen to his romantic playing from earlier in his life, it is not as weird as it got later.

So, that is all a stretch, because I think what you said here is pretty much right. Gould has a quality in his playing though, when he is on, that to me is just irresistible and so compelling, and I wish I heard him live.
_________________________
Keith D Kerman
PianoCraft
Rebuilding & Sales of vintage and pre-owned Steinway and Mason & Hamlin
New Steingraeber, Estonia, Charles R. Walter, Brodmann, Feurich
www.pianocraft.net
http://www.youtube.com/user/pianocraftchannel/videos

keith@pianocraft.net 888-840-5460

Top
#2138200 - 08/24/13 10:32 AM Re: Could Glenn Gould Have Beaten Cliburn At the 1958 Tchaikov? [Re: Old Man]
Orange Soda King Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/25/09
Posts: 6070
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky, United S...
Originally Posted By: Old Man
Originally Posted By: stores
Originally Posted By: Joey Townley
in terms of musicianship I think Gould had Cliburn beat hands down.

-11111111111111

Are you sure? I'm sensing some ambivalence.


Old man, maybe not musical ability, but in how Gould used his musicianship. Often times not very tasteful at all, in my opinion, though Gould was so good, he could have played more conventionally. He just chose not to.

I find him fascinating, but that's about it... Not a personal fan past that.

Top
#2138234 - 08/24/13 11:46 AM Re: Could Glenn Gould Have Beaten Cliburn At the 1958 Tchaikov? [Re: Joey Townley]
Joey Townley Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/17/04
Posts: 247
Loc: Los Angeles
Gould had a lot of standard repertoire in his arsenal in his early years that he of course abandoned. He had Chopin Liszt Mendelssohn all 5 Beethoven Concertos. Likely he had the Tch 1 and the Rach 2 -- remember he's only 24 in 1957 and at the height of his performing abilities. Richter is really taken with him according to the biopic. Ashkenazy is in the audience and cannot believe what he is hearing, according to his own recollections. The audience is smitten with him. Had Cliburn not won I think the Russian people would have revolted and I think the jury knew this incredible appeal Cliburn exerted. But had Gould been there the effect he had created the year before would have reignited, drawing all the attention away from Cliburn, who for all his talent and from all indications in his later years just didn't mature as an artist. He essentially became a one-concerto pianist, despite his extensive repertoire, thereby proving with the passage of time that Gould became the better pianist.

In the end I think the public opinion would have gone with Gould, assuming he had the requirements for entering. I think when push came to shove the jury would have gone along with the crowds like they did with Cliburn. And, contrary to perceptions, Gould loved the public's adulation. He thrived on it and milked his excentricities to their fullest for public consumption. He was not as naive about people's attraction to genius kooks as one might think.


Edited by Joey Townley (08/24/13 11:48 AM)

Top
#2138245 - 08/24/13 12:04 PM Re: Could Glenn Gould Have Beaten Cliburn At the 1958 Tchaikov? [Re: Joey Townley]
Pogorelich. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4528
Loc: in the past
Originally Posted By: Joey Townley
And in terms of musicianship I think Gould had Cliburn beat hands down.



Ummmmmmm not in the romantic repertoire, no...... are you crazy???? Haha!

Come on, listen to this:


Edited by Pogorelich. (08/24/13 12:08 PM)
_________________________

'I want to invest my emotions only in music; it will never disappoint me or hurt me - it is a safe place to be.'

Top
#2138252 - 08/24/13 12:18 PM Re: Could Glenn Gould Have Beaten Cliburn At the 1958 Tchaikov? [Re: Joey Townley]
Fugue14 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/13/09
Posts: 201
I'd love to hear Gould hum the cadenza in Prokoviev's 2nd Concerto!

Top
#2138259 - 08/24/13 12:30 PM Re: Could Glenn Gould Have Beaten Cliburn At the 1958 Tchaikov? [Re: Joey Townley]
pianoloverus Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19369
Loc: New York City
Gould created the sensation he did in Russia because of the way he played Bach and also for other repertoire he played that was almost unknown to Russians at the time. He did not create a sensation due to his performance of Romantic piano music which normally would be the mainstay repertoire in the Tchaikovsky.

As has already been mentioned by a few posters, there are some terrific musicians who find many of Gould's interpretive choices, even in Bach, not the most desirable. One of the most commonly mentioned are his extremes in tempo choice... often either very fast or very slow.


Edited by pianoloverus (08/24/13 07:04 PM)

Top
#2138270 - 08/24/13 12:56 PM Re: Could Glenn Gould Have Beaten Cliburn At the 1958 Tchaikov? [Re: Joey Townley]
pianoloverus Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19369
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Joey Townley
In the end I think the public opinion would have gone with Gould, assuming he had the requirements for entering. I think when push came to shove the jury would have gone along with the crowds like they did with Cliburn.
Although the audience loved Cliburn, everything I have ever read about that competition indicates the jury loved Cliburn completely independently of what the crowd felt. So I don't think it was a case of the jury going along with the crowd(which would be quite surprising considering the strong personalities on that jury)when they chose Cliburn.

Top
#2138295 - 08/24/13 01:04 PM Re: Could Glenn Gould Have Beaten Cliburn At the 1958 Tchaikov? [Re: Orange Soda King]
Old Man Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/04/12
Posts: 777
Loc: Michigan, USA
Originally Posted By: Orange Soda King
Originally Posted By: Old Man
Originally Posted By: stores
Originally Posted By: Joey Townley
in terms of musicianship I think Gould had Cliburn beat hands down.

-11111111111111

Are you sure? I'm sensing some ambivalence.


Old man, maybe not musical ability, but in how Gould used his musicianship. Often times not very tasteful at all, in my opinion, though Gould was so good, he could have played more conventionally. He just chose not to.

I find him fascinating, but that's about it... Not a personal fan past that.

ha I'm not sure what you thought I was saying. All I was doing was tweaking stores, nothing more.

But now that you've engaged me, OSK, I might as well weigh in. cry Gould was by far one of my favorite pianists, definitely in my top five. Maybe it's because I grew up with him, and when any keyboard Bach was heard in our house, it was Gould who was playing. I never really felt strongly about Cliburn. The only album of his I ever owned was "My Favorite Chopin". And while I loved the album, Cliburn just never stood out as one of the truly great pianists. His reputation seemed to be built more on fame than music making.

Having said that, I tend to agree that Cliburn would've prevailed in Russia no matter what. He fully embraced the romantic literature, and I think that's what the Russians loved as well, especially if the composer was one of their own. Combine that with the tall Texan's boyish good looks and charm, and I think it was a slam dunk. Maybe there are people who are attracted to "genius kooks" like Gould, but I just don't think he had the charisma to pull off what Cliburn did.

And what Cliburn did for international relations and for music in general was historic, and quite amazing. I've always had enormous respect for him: as a pianist, as a human being, and as one of music's leading ambassadors. He just didn't happen to be one of "My Favorite Pianists."

Top
#2138299 - 08/24/13 01:06 PM Re: Could Glenn Gould Have Beaten Cliburn At the 1958 Tchaikov? [Re: Joey Townley]
Pogorelich. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4528
Loc: in the past
Again. Listen. To this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apNTq-Tgf4w

Few people can shape like this, especially with Rach 3.................
_________________________

'I want to invest my emotions only in music; it will never disappoint me or hurt me - it is a safe place to be.'

Top
#2138306 - 08/24/13 01:14 PM Re: Could Glenn Gould Have Beaten Cliburn At the 1958 Tchaikov? [Re: Jeff Clef]
laguna_greg Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/02/13
Posts: 1382
Loc: guess where in CA and WA
Originally Posted By: Jeff Clef
Be that as it may--- and comparisons are, as usual, odious--- my personal bemusement continues, about how Russia, for all its greatness at producing composers and performers, has no ability to make fine pianos. This, even though they're one of the last countries in the world with the forests to support such an industry.


Well, that's monolithic communism did for/to them. I really don't think it's a lack of skilled workmanship within the culture itself.
_________________________
Laguna Greg

1919 Mason & Hamlin AA
1931 Bechstein C - now sold
http://www.triangleassociates-us.com/about_us (my day job)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorothy_Taubman (a recent article I wrote about one of my teachers)

Top
#2138307 - 08/24/13 01:15 PM Re: Could Glenn Gould Have Beaten Cliburn At the 1958 Tchaikov? [Re: pianoloverus]
laguna_greg Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/02/13
Posts: 1382
Loc: guess where in CA and WA
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Gould created the sensation he did in Russia because of the way he played Bach and also for other repertoire he played that were almost unknown to Russians at the time. He did not create a sensation due to his performance of Romantic piano music which normally would be the mainstay repertoire in the Tchaikovsky.

As has already been mentioned by a few posters, there are some terrific musicians who find many of Gould's interpretive choices, even in Bach, not the most desirable. One of the most commonly mentioned are his extremes in tempo choice... often either very fast or very slow.


Boy, +1 +1 +1!!! ding ding ding!

I can't imagine Gould succeeding in anything but a Bach concerto, and that simply would not have won the contest.
_________________________
Laguna Greg

1919 Mason & Hamlin AA
1931 Bechstein C - now sold
http://www.triangleassociates-us.com/about_us (my day job)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorothy_Taubman (a recent article I wrote about one of my teachers)

Top
#2138313 - 08/24/13 01:27 PM Re: Could Glenn Gould Have Beaten Cliburn At the 1958 Tchaikov? [Re: Joey Townley]
cefinow Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/27/10
Posts: 364
Loc: Western NC (US)
Interesting to relate/compare Cliburn's Soviet triumph to Gould's.

I meant to watch 10 minutes of this documentary, ended up watching the whole thing. Now I have that awful Saturday-afternoon-in-front-of-computer feeling, but it was worth it. Now, like Gould, I will don my gloves and... go trim some shrubs.


Top
#2138317 - 08/24/13 01:32 PM Re: Could Glenn Gould Have Beaten Cliburn At the 1958 Tchaikov? [Re: Joey Townley]
Gerard12 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/19/10
Posts: 757
Loc: South Carolina
I'm really tempted to make up some bumper stickers that read: My Glenn Gould could've beaten your Van Cliburn at the 1958 Tchaikovsky Competition!!
_________________________
Piano performance and instruction (former college music professor).

Top
#2138320 - 08/24/13 01:45 PM Re: Could Glenn Gould Have Beaten Cliburn At the 1958 Tchaikov? [Re: Joey Townley]
FSO Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/03/12
Posts: 854
Loc: UK, Brighton
Originally Posted By: Joey Townley
And, contrary to perceptions, Gould loved the public's adulation. He thrived on it and milked his excentricities to their fullest for public consumption. He was not as naive about people's attraction to genius kooks as one might think.

Where are you getting this information from? I'm curious...
_________________________
Sometimes, we all just need to be shown a little kindness <3

Top
#2138321 - 08/24/13 01:45 PM Re: Could Glenn Gould Have Beaten Cliburn At the 1958 Tchaikov? [Re: Joey Townley]
Pogorelich. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4528
Loc: in the past
They are two COMPLETELY different artists!!!!!
_________________________

'I want to invest my emotions only in music; it will never disappoint me or hurt me - it is a safe place to be.'

Top
#2138324 - 08/24/13 01:51 PM Re: Could Glenn Gould Have Beaten Cliburn At the 1958 Tchaikov? [Re: Pogorelich.]
BDB Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 21587
Loc: Oakland
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
They are two COMPLETELY different artists!!!!!


No, they perform pretty much the same way, now!
_________________________
Semipro Tech

Top
#2138326 - 08/24/13 01:54 PM Re: Could Glenn Gould Have Beaten Cliburn At the 1958 Tchaikov? [Re: Pogorelich.]
Old Man Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/04/12
Posts: 777
Loc: Michigan, USA
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
They are two COMPLETELY different artists!!!!!

Exactly. Comparisons are useless. Had it been the Bach/Schoenberg competition, I might have put money on Gould. But it wasn't. Their repertoires were as different as night and day, and their personalities were equally different.

Top
#2138358 - 08/24/13 03:09 PM Re: Could Glenn Gould Have Beaten Cliburn At the 1958 Tchaikov? [Re: Joey Townley]
Eduard Hanslick Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/22/13
Posts: 528
Perhaps Gould would have been the Pogorelich of that hypothetical competition.

Personally I don't find these imaginary comparisons all that interesting - no offense meant, of course.

Top
#2138406 - 08/24/13 05:01 PM Re: Could Glenn Gould Have Beaten Cliburn At the 1958 Tchaikov? [Re: Eduard Hanslick]
Keith D Kerman Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/12/03
Posts: 3328
Loc: Gaithersburg, MD (Washington D...
Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
Perhaps Gould would have been the Pogorelich of that hypothetical competition.


That is a perfect and much more succinct way of saying what I was trying to say.
_________________________
Keith D Kerman
PianoCraft
Rebuilding & Sales of vintage and pre-owned Steinway and Mason & Hamlin
New Steingraeber, Estonia, Charles R. Walter, Brodmann, Feurich
www.pianocraft.net
http://www.youtube.com/user/pianocraftchannel/videos

keith@pianocraft.net 888-840-5460

Top
#2138424 - 08/24/13 05:47 PM Re: Could Glenn Gould Have Beaten Cliburn At the 1958 Tchaikov? [Re: FSO]
Joey Townley Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/17/04
Posts: 247
Loc: Los Angeles
Originally Posted By: FSO
Originally Posted By: Joey Townley
And, contrary to perceptions, Gould loved the public's adulation. He thrived on it and milked his excentricities to their fullest for public consumption. He was not as naive about people's attraction to genius kooks as one might think.

Where are you getting this information from? I'm curious...


From the documentary. My comment is a compendium of remarks made about Gould's character in this respect throughout the docu.

In regards to others' views, opinions let me say: Gould didn't just play Bach while he was in Russia. He played at least two of the Beethoven concertos, No.'s 1 and 2 and there are video clips of them. There might even be his entire tour lying on videos somewhere in the archives. What a treasure find that would be!

What was brought out in the docu in regard to his performances in Russia was not necessarily how he played Bach but just how he played, period. That peculiar staccato detached style in Bach combined with the machine-like accuracy (you never heard a mistake) and the cerebral working of his mind were in plain sight and I think this is what bowled the audiences over. During his first concert the hall was about 20% filled. By the start of the 2nd half it was packed to capacity because, according to Ashkenazy everyone was rushing to the phones at intermission saying, "Get down here and buy a ticket. You've just got to hear this guy!" There's ample evidence in the non-Bach videos that he possessed the performing capacity to make excellent showings of non-Rachmaninoff & Tchaikovsky literature. Personally I can think of no Tchaikovsky or Cliburn competition that was won with a non-Rachmaninoff/Tchaikovsky concerto and I think that's a crying shame, not to mention a stain on the honor of the music industry itself. If such a win exists please let me know. I'd be shocked beyond words.


Edited by Joey Townley (08/24/13 05:49 PM)

Top
#2138458 - 08/24/13 07:16 PM Re: Could Glenn Gould Have Beaten Cliburn At the 1958 Tchaikov? [Re: Joey Townley]
pianoloverus Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19369
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Joey Townley
In regards to others' views, opinions let me say: Gould didn't just play Bach while he was in Russia.
No one said he did, but from what I've read it was his playing of Bach and his playing of composers rarely heard in Russia up to that point that garnered attention and caused a sensation. He played very little Romantic by this point in his life music and this is why it would be so difficult to win a competition like the Tchaikovsky.

As far as Tchaikovsky Competition winners only playing Tchaikovsky or Rachmaninov concerti, I'm not sure, but it may well be a requirement of the competition. I'm virtually certain that in the solo parts of the competition some Tchaikovsky works are required.

Top
#2138488 - 08/24/13 08:49 PM Re: Could Glenn Gould Have Beaten Cliburn At the 1958 Tchaikov? [Re: pianoloverus]
Joey Townley Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/17/04
Posts: 247
Loc: Los Angeles
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Originally Posted By: Joey Townley
In regards to others' views, opinions let me say: Gould didn't just play Bach while he was in Russia.
No one said he did, but from what I've read it was his playing of Bach and his playing of composers rarely heard in Russia up to that point that garnered attention and caused a sensation. He played very little Romantic by this point in his life music and this is why it would be so difficult to win a competition like the Tchaikovsky.

As far as Tchaikovsky Competition winners only playing Tchaikovsky or Rachmaninov concerti, I'm not sure, but it may well be a requirement of the competition. I'm virtually certain that in the solo parts of the competition some Tchaikovsky works are required.


He may not have been playing much of the Romantic stuff but he certainly had it in his repertoire. A piece of conversation related to the Russian tour appeared in which he agreed with the interviewer, who had said, "You knew a lot of Chopin and Liszt but I imagine you weren't playing it." Gould: "Yes, that's right."

But I'll ask the question again for those who might have missed it: has a concerto other the Tchaikovsky 1st/Rachmaninoff 2nd & 3rd ever won a pianist 1st prize in the Tchaikovsky/Cliburn competitions? I know that Barry Douglas took 1st prize in the Tchaikovsky and the Brahms 1st was the one he lost the Cliburn with and I'm almost certain it was the Rachmaninoff 2nd which won him the Tchaikovsky gold a year later, but I could be wrong.

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >

Moderator:  Brendan, Kreisler 
What's Hot!!
HOW TO POST PICTURES on the Piano Forums
-------------------
Sharing is Caring!
About the Buttons
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
-------------------
PIANO BOOKS
Interesting books about the piano, pianists, piano history, biographies, memoirs and more!
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
ad (Casio)
Celviano by Casio Rebate
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Seiler Pianos
Sheet Music
(PW is an affiliate)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Help to choose between upright Yamaha JU109 & Ritmuller110r2
by yurana
10/02/14 02:01 AM
I've got it! Who remembers that Steinway O project?
by TwoSnowflakes
10/02/14 01:29 AM
A study of the practice behaviors of effective pianists
by lyricmudra
10/01/14 10:37 PM
Ease of play - Yamaha p35 or p105
by DeadPoets
10/01/14 10:37 PM
piano beats in groups
by SKJP
10/01/14 09:42 PM
Who's Online
92 registered (AtomicBond, ando, Baroque Style, 21 invisible), 1194 Guests and 17 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
76399 Members
42 Forums
157942 Topics
2319474 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
(ads by Google)

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
|
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission