Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Adult Beginners Forum Grieg recital: Proposal.....

Most of us know each others abilities or can guess really quickly. I've never been disappointed by a recording in an ABF recital or in the piano bar. I think it's clear that the performer is doing their best and that's really appreciated.

No-one here that I'm aware of expects anything more than enthusiastic participation. I'm trying to think why else we're doing this.

ETA: That's my performance excused!

I made comments this ABF recital on how people could improve. Or at least, how I though they could play even better. I hope people received these comments in the spirit they were given. I tried to be encouraging and positive with where people were at. And only gave suggestions when people said they were open to them. Clearly, we are all putting ourselves out there and take a risk when we share our playing. But, being in the same boat as each other, I would hope we're all a bit more accepting of the differences in each's abilities. Overall, I have found PW and ABF especially, to be very supportive and just generally a great experience. It's nice to finally have some peers with whom to discuss and share things. I think it's understood that we are all doing the best we can at any given time. Sure we want to improve. That's why we practice!!! But, where we're at is where we're at. No judgement implied. None of us are pros!!!

I managed a recording of the Scherzo op.54/5, and uploaded it to my YouTube-Channel.
Decent enough to recognize the piece, I hope.
When submission date arrives, I'll upload the MP3.

Since I have yet to learn the Shepherd's Boy, I will stick with this version of the Scherzo, I guess.

patH, congratulations on having recorded. For the themed recitals, you just send the YouTube video link to your opus leader. No mp3 needed.

This is different from the ABF recitals, where an mp3 is required.

Regarding Opus 65 Number 3, Tungsinn (Melancholy), I have two questions.

1. m. 7 vs. m. 13. Mm. 4-9 are in B minor. Mm. 10-15 are a perfect real imitation in F# minor, except for the second bass clef note of m. 7 (C#) vs. m. 13 (G). To make the imitation perfect, I would expect either C natural in m. 7 or G# in m. 13. Is this discrepancy (C# and G natural) deliberate?

2. M. 6 "cresc. e stretto" vs. mm. 17-18 "cresc. string." What is the difference between stretto and stringendo? I have always thought of them both as "growing faster and louder", but my web search tells me that louder isn't part of the definition (ok), and that stretto is "faster" while stringendo is "growing faster" (hmmmm). They're both parts of speech of the Italian verb stringere: stretto is a past participle and stringendo is a gerund. So does this mean in the stretto passage I should abruptly get faster, while in the stringendo passage I should stretch it out? And how are either of these different from a garden variety accelerando?

I'm taking advantage of Dad's (better ) piano for my recordings, and the chance to get some coaching. So with him (Beric) here - I've asked for his advice on your questions and he says:

"Question 1
There is no discrepancy, compare the LH in bars (measures) 7,8 and 9 with bars 13,14 and 15: with the exception of bass bar 13 leaping down an augmented 6th instead of a major 6th as in bar 7.

Question 2
'Stringendo' - to perform with more tension, and specifically, faster: often to indicate the development towards some climax. The past participle of the same word is stretto.

'stretto' - means 'serre' tight, and is very often placed to indicate that one should make the beats tight or short and consequently very fast.(producing a hurried effect)

Source: the new grove dictionary of music

In the OCM, the definitions are:
stretto - means drawn together - accelerando

stringendo - means PROGRESSIVELY quickening/squeezing

so take your pick - it looks like the differences could be infinitessimal - so I'm not sure if that helps at all.

Thanks, Dipsy and Beric.

(My emphasis.). It's that single note exception which I'm asking about. Everything else is the same except for that single note. I'm wondering why that single note is different, or if it's an error in the score.

- I'd hazard a guess that Grieg has never written a transposed phrase with such a tiny alteration so on that basis it's an error in the score.

Austbo plays G# in bar 13, Nokleberg plays G nat, as written. We'll never know which is correct (both maj 6 or aug 6)

I would play G#. All the G's from M10 are sharpened from the modulation to the dominant and put it down to poor proofreading.

Did you pick it up from the sound or from analysis?

Ha, me pick something up from the sound? Rotfl.

No, I picked it up because when I was focusing on learning those two measures and comparing what they felt like, I noticed that one measure had a half step between fingers 4 and 5 and the other measure had a whole step.

I'm really impressed that dire tonic can tell who is playing which note just by listening.

It's mind blowing. The first post I remember reading of his was quite remarkable. He picked out a G and a Gb or something in the one chord. You would have gone for an F# but he just gets the note. Amazing.

Bloody frightening when you're preparing recordings for him though! The Grieg recital has kept me from revising my Notturno (I felt it wasn't politic to continue while someone else was planning to submit it) but it's done wonders for me.

On reflection, I think you might be able to capitalise on this; playing it the Nokleberg way (as written, with the inconsistency) could help to sharpen your perception of interval. Enough repetition and something about the difference is likely to register even if it’s not precisely measured.

How to hear the difference.

Nokelberg, 56 secs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMhlEMqi7M4

You should be able to hear the semitone drop from G nat to F# in the bass. If you hover your cursor and keep clicking in one spot you can get quick repetitions.


Austbo, 50 secs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gu7QKlxL-cE&list=PLsqrYPvK4yP4GZXuywnz7mN1o3wnyyaGY&index=50

He’s hammering the RH here making the interval harder to hear so use another method to get at it. Together with the tied LH E#, his G# and the RH C#, you’re playing a C# major, fleetingly. You should be able to hear… it sounds quite sweet, sugary compared to the G nat.

The more I hear the two versions, the more I like the difference.

This is a challenging piece, to say the least!!

A couple of things to consider:

1) This idea is actually repeated in octaves in the original key 2 more times after that, lending validity to the idea that it should be a G# in m. 13

2) Is the score Urtext? I'm only aware of 3 versions of the complete lyric pieces (and chances are this one wasn't published in a collection of other pieces like the more popular ones): Peters (Dover), Schirmer, and Henle. If anyone has the Henle and would like to let us know what they see, that would help tremendously, as I have found them to be more accurate than the other two

3) The difference in sound is minimal, IMO, so I'd go with whichever you prefer, or if you have no preference in sound, whatever feels best/easiest. My guess would be the G# considering you have to play the bottom F# with it.

Thanks for all the replies.

Given that this is the only F#m version in the piece, I am (perhaps perversely) drawn to playing the anomalous note as written just on that basis: to mark it out as unique. I know, I know, a completely silly reason to choose a note.

I'll try listening to it both ways and see if I can hear if I like one way better than the other.

Or maybe I will pick one of the two notes at random and see if anyone can tell which I picked .

In all seriousness, thank you for the ideas. You've all given me several angles to think about.

Morodiene, I have the Peters edition.

Can anyone help me to figure out what key "Peace of the Woods" Op. 71, No.4 is in? There are 5 sharps in the key signature: FCGDA are all sharp. but then on another site the piece was listed as being in F sharp major, which I thought had 6 sharps.

You're right that F# major has 6 sharps. Op. 71 No. 4 ends with a series of B major chords, and has 5 sharps in the key signature, so I would say it is in B major. The opening is a ii V I progression in B major: C#m F# B. This is interesting, to put a standard closing set of chords as the opening.

Can you provide a link to the site where it is listed as being in F# major?

I only had a few minutes to look at it. It has F# to B chords in the beginning a few times and has a strong B major sound, and it ends with a B major chord. It seems to be in B major.

Thanks PianoStudent88 and keystring, You are right the piece is in B major. The F# major must just be an error in the listing of it on this site:

http://www.pianostreet.com/grieg-sheet-music/lyric-pieces/

I will have to get back to learning the musical analysis. This piece in particular was difficult for me because I did not understand the key changes throughout the piece which made it extremely challenging. haha...you will hear that at the recital.

Its gone very quiet hasn't it? That is, at least on this thread- though I suspect in the homes of our recital participants, its a different story - with (sometimes frantic) practising and recording attempts. I suppose some people are still on holiday too..

Rossy (yes Rossy - he's still alive and kicking) agreed to help me with 2 of my 3 recordings yesterday. So in the space of a few hours I had a few takes, then picked the best recordings out of 3. Not perfect, but its such a relief to have completed them - giving me more time learn the Nocturne more thoroughly.

But I suspect many of you are more interested in Rossy. My gut feeling is that he'll reappear on pianoworld. He's doing well, and very busy, though without internet access at present. If/when he does reappear I'm sure those of you who remember him will be very pleased to welcome him back. Things haven't been the same without him, have they?

Now I have to write something to go with my pieces, and I'll try to follow some advice I gave - 'imagine you're talking to a friend about your experience learning the piece'. That should help me dodge the dual temptations of trying to sound technically knowledgeable (which I would be doomed to fail at anyway)- because I don't want to try to impress, and explaining/excusing all the errors - because I have nothing to be ashamed of. For me, my challenge in writing my 2-3 paragraphs is to be open and show something of the human being learning the piece.

I re-recorded "Gade", since I had one of the chords wrong. It still has mistakes in it, but they are slips and accidents, which are acceptable. Playing the wrong notes because I misread the music is not!

I still have to polish and record "Hjemve". I'm encouraged by the fact that I can play the section with so many sharps and accidentals without looking at my right hand - just feeling my way around the keyboard. When did that happen? It's a skill that just sort of happened without my realizing it.

Sam