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#2139088 - 08/26/13 06:48 AM Horowitz: The Stars & Stripes Forever - or, is it?
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2722
Here is something I just stumbled across:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77oauAJa29w

Any thoughts on this?

Extra note:

At the very end of the video you will see this:

"Finis an Underzog production"

"G-d bless our troops"

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#2139112 - 08/26/13 08:49 AM Re: Horowitz: The Stars & Stripes Forever - or, is it? [Re: pv88]
Damon Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 6248
Loc: St. Louis area
That was awful
_________________________
It's been scientifically proven that Horowitz sucks.

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#2139150 - 08/26/13 10:47 AM Re: Horowitz: The Stars & Stripes Forever - or, is it? [Re: pv88]
Allan W. Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/03/12
Posts: 376
Loc: Michigan
How about his interpretation of Clair de Lune? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YotZsRbfdWU

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#2139155 - 08/26/13 10:58 AM Re: Horowitz: The Stars & Stripes Forever - or, is it? [Re: pv88]
BruceD Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 18292
Loc: Victoria, BC
Originally Posted By: pv88
Here is something I just stumbled across:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77oauAJa29w

Any thoughts on this?

[...]


Any thoughts, you ask? Yes. What's the point of posting this? If we posted every bad performance we looked for and came across, there would be no room for anything else on Piano World.
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BruceD
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Estonia 190

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#2139177 - 08/26/13 11:50 AM Re: Horowitz: The Stars & Stripes Forever - or, is it? [Re: pv88]
Cinnamonbear Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 3991
Loc: Rockford, IL
Originally Posted By: pv88
[...]

Any thoughts on this?

[...]

"G-d bless our troops"

[...]


Well, I sense anger.

If you look at some of underzog's other videos, and also notice the date that this video was uploaded, you might get the idea that there is a political statement being made here.

My thought is: it isn't just another bad YouTube performance. OTOH, apart from an expression of anger with, possibly, an intent to demoralize, it's not all that effective. I'd be surprised if most people would stay with it until the end to catch the dig.

Tokyo Rose? Hanoi Hannah? Others?

What are your thoughts, pv88? What prompted you to post this as you did?

--Andy


Edited by Cinnamonbear (08/26/13 11:53 AM)
_________________________
I may not be fast,
but at least I'm slow.

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#2139178 - 08/26/13 11:58 AM Re: Horowitz: The Stars & Stripes Forever - or, is it? [Re: pv88]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19871
Loc: New York
Besides that I agree with what everyone else said.....

I thought I'd skim through it (that's all I could bear, and just barely) to see if there's any resemblance to the Horowitz -- and there is (barely). Some of the figures and musical gestures suggest that there's a familiarity with the Horowitz and some takeoff from it going on. But as for 99% of what he's doing, I have no idea.

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#2139190 - 08/26/13 12:14 PM Re: Horowitz: The Stars & Stripes Forever - or, is it? [Re: pv88]
JoelW Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 4931
Loc: USA
Umm, is this guy serious? Looks like he's literally smacking the keys with an open hand.

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#2139195 - 08/26/13 12:31 PM Re: Horowitz: The Stars & Stripes Forever - or, is it? [Re: pv88]
Derulux Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/05
Posts: 5377
Loc: Philadelphia
Whether it was intended in all serious, in jest, or in politics, it was poorly done. Based on other videos in his portfolio, I have to believe it was performed in earnest, but like others have said, I don't see the point in commenting negatively on performances for the sake of commenting negatively. I'd like to take some time to sit down with the guy and honestly talk about the piano, but to brazenly attack a performance is, in my opinion, poor taste. So, I'm not sure what we're supposed to be commenting on, really...
_________________________
Every day we are afforded a new chance. The problem with life is not that you run out of chances. In the end, what you run out of are days.

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#2139199 - 08/26/13 12:39 PM Re: Horowitz: The Stars & Stripes Forever - or, is it? [Re: Derulux]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19871
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Derulux
....I'd like to take some time to sit down with the guy and honestly talk....

Really??
I don't think I would, and I suspect you wouldn't care for it too much either.

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#2139203 - 08/26/13 12:49 PM Re: Horowitz: The Stars & Stripes Forever - or, is it? [Re: pv88]
Nikolas Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 5429
Loc: Europe
I think that pv88 is simply too shocked that something like this exist! guess what: It does.

Now we all need to get over this and find something useful to do with our time!
_________________________
http://www.musica-ferrum.com

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#2139222 - 08/26/13 01:33 PM Re: Horowitz: The Stars & Stripes Forever - or, is it? [Re: Mark_C]
Derulux Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/05
Posts: 5377
Loc: Philadelphia
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: Derulux
....I'd like to take some time to sit down with the guy and honestly talk....

Really??
I don't think I would, and I suspect you wouldn't care for it too much either.

Probably depends on how willing the guy was to openly and honestly discuss the topic... if he thinks he's great, then you're right; probably not. smile
_________________________
Every day we are afforded a new chance. The problem with life is not that you run out of chances. In the end, what you run out of are days.

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#2139237 - 08/26/13 02:18 PM Re: Horowitz: The Stars & Stripes Forever - or, is it? [Re: pv88]
Michael Sayers Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/13
Posts: 1283
Loc: Stockholms lšn, Sverige
It reminds me of this video titled "My incredible playing of Liszt legend no. 2":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlMux_TVKdw

M.

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#2139238 - 08/26/13 02:24 PM Re: Horowitz: The Stars & Stripes Forever - or, is it? [Re: pv88]
Michael Sayers Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/13
Posts: 1283
Loc: Stockholms lšn, Sverige
He did this Chopin one as well!

The description reads "This is my first recording of my performance on YouTube, many more great performances to come from such composers as Mendelssohns, Schumann, Liszt, Grieg, Rachmaninov etc."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9f_BBRQehGE

M.

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#2139240 - 08/26/13 02:34 PM Re: Horowitz: The Stars & Stripes Forever - or, is it? [Re: Michael Sayers]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7777
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Michael Sayers
He did this Chopin one as well!

The description reads "This is my first recording of my performance on YouTube, many more great performances to come from such composers as Mendelssohns, Schumann, Liszt, Grieg, Rachmaninov etc."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9f_BBRQehGE

M.

Chopin is turning in his grave. This is an insult to the composer and the work. He should be shot.





well, maybe that's a bit harsh. grin Just a bit though.
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

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#2139251 - 08/26/13 02:46 PM Re: Horowitz: The Stars & Stripes Forever - or, is it? [Re: Polyphonist]
JoelW Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 4931
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
He should be shot.


I would erase that comment.

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#2139268 - 08/26/13 03:15 PM Re: Horowitz: The Stars & Stripes Forever - or, is it? [Re: JoelW]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19871
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: JoelW
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
He should be shot.
I would erase that comment.

I agree, but I think it's almost closer than wanting to talk to him. ha

P.S. I think we can safely assume Poly wasn't being literal. smile

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#2139274 - 08/26/13 03:22 PM Re: Horowitz: The Stars & Stripes Forever - or, is it? [Re: pv88]
BruceD Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 18292
Loc: Victoria, BC
Why do we need this "trash" here?
_________________________
BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190

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#2139281 - 08/26/13 03:31 PM Re: Horowitz: The Stars & Stripes Forever - or, is it? [Re: Mark_C]
JoelW Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 4931
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: JoelW
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
He should be shot.
I would erase that comment.


P.S. I think we can safely assume Poly wasn't being literal. smile


But what matters is what the NSA thinks. Similar comments under similar circumstances have had people charged with "making terroristic threats" and sent to prison. Obviously the chances of Poly's comment being seen by anyone important and then having it deemed terroristic is slim to nothing, but I don't take my chances with that kind of thing.

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#2139301 - 08/26/13 04:15 PM Re: Horowitz: The Stars & Stripes Forever - or, is it? [Re: JoelW]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7777
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: JoelW
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: JoelW
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
He should be shot.
I would erase that comment.


P.S. I think we can safely assume Poly wasn't being literal. smile


But what matters is what the NSA thinks. Similar comments under similar circumstances have had people charged with "making terroristic threats" and sent to prison. Obviously the chances of Poly's comment being seen by anyone important and then having it deemed terroristic is slim to nothing, but I don't take my chances with that kind of thing.

Well, I can't really erase it now that it's been quoted so many times, can I?
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

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#2139321 - 08/26/13 05:08 PM Re: Horowitz: The Stars & Stripes Forever - or, is it? [Re: Polyphonist]
Michael Sayers Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/13
Posts: 1283
Loc: Stockholms lšn, Sverige
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: JoelW
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: JoelW
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
He should be shot.
I would erase that comment.


P.S. I think we can safely assume Poly wasn't being literal. smile


But what matters is what the NSA thinks. Similar comments under similar circumstances have had people charged with "making terroristic threats" and sent to prison. Obviously the chances of Poly's comment being seen by anyone important and then having it deemed terroristic is slim to nothing, but I don't take my chances with that kind of thing.

Well, I can't really erase it now that it's been quoted so many times, can I?


I would guess from the context that it means "shot on film" . . . still a bit nebulous, and yet I can't think of any verbs "shot" could plausibly have been a mistyping of . . . if anything comes of it Polyphonist you can counter with psychological damage caused by having heard the particular Chopin recording, and claim insanity defence if applicable, et c.

M.

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#2139326 - 08/26/13 05:22 PM Re: Horowitz: The Stars & Stripes Forever - or, is it? [Re: pv88]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2722
Extra note:

Everyone needs to listen carefully to the playing itself as you will see that he follows the original transcription throughout this performance and it is not all just a complete mess of notes. The pianist has done this deliberately from what I can hear and this leaves us with:

1) Was he poking fun at the music just like "BachMach2?"

2) Was he just angry at something else in life as we can see that he gives reference (with the final info at the end) to being an ex-veteran, and, may have a disability, or, handicap?

I know of one other pianist, Joe Townley, who has posted videos of himself playing even though he had serious physical issues with his hands.

3) He appears to be intent upon putting dissonance into the music.

Here are other pieces that are posted in the user's videos:

https://www.youtube.com/user/underzog/videos

[Scroll down to see all of the videos, above.]

One in particular seems to be evident:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvvVLTzeIQg

And, here's the family video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EApd0R8J1Ls

It speaks for itself.

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#2139356 - 08/26/13 06:35 PM Re: Horowitz: The Stars & Stripes Forever - or, is it? [Re: pv88]
Damon Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 6248
Loc: St. Louis area
Originally Posted By: pv88
Extra note:

Everyone needs to listen carefully to the playing itself as you will see that he follows the original transcription throughout this performance and it is not all just a complete mess of notes.


I don't think so. I think it would be best to not listen to another note. I heard what he did the first time.
_________________________
It's been scientifically proven that Horowitz sucks.

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#2139428 - 08/26/13 10:27 PM Re: Horowitz: The Stars & Stripes Forever - or, is it? [Re: Mark_C]
Cinnamonbear Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 3991
Loc: Rockford, IL
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
[...] I thought I'd skim through it (that's all I could bear, and just barely) to see if there's any resemblance to the Horowitz -- and there is (barely). [...]


I am using my human prerogative to change my answer, and agree with Mark. Only, I didn't skim. I studied and compared. And so, I would say, there is MORE than a bare resemblance to Horowitz in underzog's "performance." I think this is high comedy, of the kind that takes specific knowledge to enjoy. I still sense anger (and a lot of it), but I also sense that he is making fun of Horowitz, big time. I mean, listen to the first few lines of this, below-- (chord at 0:05!?! and following crazy ) :



I also surmise there is a layer of cultural humor that escapes me, being a Gentile. Not that I don't *want* to understand--as I am an appreciator of stories such as "The Feather Merchants and other tales from the fools of Chelm"...

grin

So, no. It's not trash. It's parody.

Really.

It is.

And maybe even satire, if you add the anger element to it.


Edited by Cinnamonbear (08/26/13 11:04 PM)
_________________________
I may not be fast,
but at least I'm slow.

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#2139440 - 08/26/13 11:04 PM Re: Horowitz: The Stars & Stripes Forever - or, is it? [Re: pv88]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2722
Perhaps on a more positive note here is a very solid performance of the Horowitz Stars & Stripes by pianist Florian Wolf:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTN4NkR5Pik

And, here is the pianist's link to a free score:

http://www.thepianopage.com/scores/various/Stars%20and%20Stripes.pdf

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#2139448 - 08/26/13 11:24 PM Re: Horowitz: The Stars & Stripes Forever - or, is it? [Re: pv88]
carey Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6470
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted By: pv88
Here is something I just stumbled across:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77oauAJa29w

Any thoughts on this?


A faithful rendition of the little known arrangement of "Stars and Stripes" by Charles Ives.
_________________________
YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo

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#2139451 - 08/26/13 11:30 PM Re: Horowitz: The Stars & Stripes Forever - or, is it? [Re: pv88]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19871
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: pv88
Perhaps on a more positive note here is a very solid performance....

I was interested to check it out because I've loved the arrangement for decades, long before I imagined there'd be a chance to get hold of attempted versions of the score, and when I realized it I immediately went and learned it. So let's see....

I agree that it's "solid," but not particularly great -- too "dainty," and with some phrasings that are idiosyncratic and debatable (if not "wrong"), plus quite a few places where the tempo is suddenly compromised for no reason except that the passage is a little harder.

But I'll say this: he plays it 100% cleanly, which is more than I ever did. grin

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#2139452 - 08/26/13 11:34 PM Re: Horowitz: The Stars & Stripes Forever - or, is it? [Re: Mark_C]
Cinnamonbear Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 3991
Loc: Rockford, IL
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
[...] But I'll say this: he plays it 100% cleanly, which is more than I ever did. grin


Or, more than Horowitz ever did, either, apparently. crazy
_________________________
I may not be fast,
but at least I'm slow.

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#2139454 - 08/26/13 11:47 PM Re: Horowitz: The Stars & Stripes Forever - or, is it? [Re: Cinnamonbear]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19871
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Cinnamonbear
Or, more than Horowitz ever did, either, apparently. crazy

Well yeah -- I almost said that too, but didn't want to make it sound like I think him and me play alike. ha


Please nobody tell me about grammar. grin

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#2139462 - 08/27/13 12:27 AM Re: Horowitz: The Stars & Stripes Forever - or, is it? [Re: pv88]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2722
Here's an impressive display by the British pianist, Freddy Kempf:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DF0o08YXu4o

Looks like he attempts a little too much speed in the the 16th-note passages and therefore misses a few notes throughout although he is the only one I have heard play this with a fair amount of risk and the crashing basses in the opening section are executed with flair.

No one is going match Horowitz for those crashing basses as this is partly due to the older recording equipment which couldn't handle the full range of sound like our recordings do, today.

My favorite example of the legendary sonorities is here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0N04Y_9bee4

Note the "whew" at the end as he walks off stage!

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#2139526 - 08/27/13 04:14 AM Re: Horowitz: The Stars & Stripes Forever - or, is it? [Re: pv88]
Michael Sayers Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/13
Posts: 1283
Loc: Stockholms lšn, Sverige
Originally Posted By: pv88
No one is going match Horowitz for those crashing basses as this is partly due to the older recording equipment which couldn't handle the full range of sound like our recordings do, today.


Did you read this somewhere or is it your own conclusion? I was with the impression that Horowitz's tone was "real", i.e. not an artifact of recording processes!


M.

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