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#2139548 - 08/27/13 05:49 AM Re: Horowitz: The Stars & Stripes Forever - or, is it? [Re: Michael Sayers]
bennevis Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/10
Posts: 4850
Originally Posted By: Michael Sayers
Originally Posted By: pv88
No one is going match Horowitz for those crashing basses as this is partly due to the older recording equipment which couldn't handle the full range of sound like our recordings do, today.


Did you read this somewhere or is it your own conclusion? I was with the impression that Horowitz's tone was "real", i.e. not an artifact of recording processes!


M.


Horowitz made plenty of recordings (live & studio) in his old age on superb digital equipment on the DG label, and all show the same characteristics of crashing bass octaves etc, which is a combination of the way his piano is voiced, and his own playing.

The current issue of BBC Music Magazine (August 2013) contains a 'free' 75-minute CD of his London concert from 1982, digitally recorded by the BBC. The Chopin Ballade No.1 and Rachmaninoff's Sonata No.2 show those qualities very well.

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#2139683 - 08/27/13 02:39 PM Re: Horowitz: The Stars & Stripes Forever - or, is it? [Re: Michael Sayers]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2610
Originally Posted By: Michael Sayers
Originally Posted By: pv88
No one is going match Horowitz for those crashing basses as this is partly due to the older recording equipment which couldn't handle the full range of sound like our recordings do, today.


Did you read this somewhere or is it your own conclusion? I was with the impression that Horowitz's tone was "real", i.e. not an artifact of recording processes!


Okay, it looks like I may have not been correct about the older equipment contributing to Horowitz's sound as I probably did read this somewhere and the info was not accurate.

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#2140068 - 08/28/13 06:45 AM Re: Horowitz: The Stars & Stripes Forever - or, is it? [Re: pv88]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2610
Here is a website which is still hosting the majority of the "Horowitz Scores" realizations:

1) http://vkgfx.com/scores/horowitz/

And, here is a great companion site of miscellaneous scores, A - Z:

2) http://vkgfx.com/scores/

I would recommend making copies of all the pieces you like as of now as there is no telling as to when these sites (especially the "Horowitz Scores") could get taken down.

I already have printed out paper copies of every Horowitz piece in the first link as I did this over a long period of time when the scores were originally hosted by Dr. Makoto Natsui, quite a few years ago.

The original site by Dr. Natsui had everything in the above two links and a lot of other pieces, listed by various categories such as "composer," "arranger," and so forth. It was titled:

Virtuoso Piano Transcription

The two links above only represent a smaller portion of everything that was listed/included in the original site.

Does anyone remember how impressive it was?

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#2140094 - 08/28/13 08:05 AM Re: Horowitz: The Stars & Stripes Forever - or, is it? [Re: pv88]
Michael Sayers Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/13
Posts: 881
Loc: Stockholms lšn, Sverige
I remember Dr. Natsui's website - it was massive and was the "IMSLP" before IMSLP arrived (so much for any need of "Musica Obscura", anyone else here ever receive that press' catalogues? as a little child that press' publications had me waiting for the mail man excitedly on many occasions!).

I see the Thalberg Fantasie Op. 33 with the big ending still is there . . . just look at the last five pages!

http://vkgfx.com/scores/thalberg/moses_fantasy.pdf

People complain about me as a composer using 128th notes when the music is half that tempo, maybe I grew up looking at too many of these obscure scores!


M.

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#2140102 - 08/28/13 08:27 AM Re: Horowitz: The Stars & Stripes Forever - or, is it? [Re: pv88]
Michael Sayers Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/13
Posts: 881
Loc: Stockholms lšn, Sverige
In one of his letters Liszt writes about Clara Schumann being more inventive and meritorious in one composition than all of the Thalberg Fantasies put together, I'm one of those persons who isn't so sure about this compositional assessment.

Raymond's Lewenthal's recording of that Op. 33 Fantasie is on youtube . . . maybe someone else here will agree that this music has its good points.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_3ob4pu0iE


M.

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#2140355 - 08/28/13 05:33 PM Re: Horowitz: The Stars & Stripes Forever - or, is it? [Re: Michael Sayers]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2610
Originally Posted By: Michael Sayers
Raymond's Lewenthal's recording of that Op. 33 Fantasie is on youtube . . . maybe someone else here will agree that this music has its good points.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_3ob4pu0iE


@Michael,

I am glad that you have mentioned Raymond Lewenthal as there is absolutely no doubt he was one of the greatest performers of Alkan's music and here is an excellent example of that:

In two (2) parts:

1) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukvRssK_wpI

2) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQWmeVrUECA

Lewenthal not only had an incredible technique but it always served the music at hand first and foremost without question.

I particularly like the "fugue" section before the final return of the climactic theme - it's Lewenthal at his very best!

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#2140362 - 08/28/13 06:02 PM Re: Horowitz: The Stars & Stripes Forever - or, is it? [Re: pv88]
pianoloverus Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19230
Loc: New York City
Stars and Stripes with strategic additions by Benjamin Grosvenor and friend:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IPkNbuaSAg


Edited by pianoloverus (08/29/13 06:21 PM)

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#2140519 - 08/29/13 01:48 AM Re: Horowitz: The Stars & Stripes Forever - or, is it? [Re: pv88]
Michael Sayers Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/13
Posts: 881
Loc: Stockholms lšn, Sverige
Originally Posted By: pv88

I am glad that you have mentioned Raymond Lewenthal as there is absolutely no doubt he was one of the greatest performers of Alkan's music . . .


Raymond Lewenthal might have been led by Nyiregyhazi into Alkan. After one of Nyiregyhazi's performances in the 1940s Raymond got to hear Nyiregyhazi play the entire first movement of Alkan's Concerto with a power and level of technique he would never be able to equal - this is according to the words of a rather long monograph left behind by Raymond of recollections of Nyiregyhazi's performances in the 1940s.

I've never heard any recordings of Alkan, probably Lewenthal's are first rate, my personal inclination is have my ideas on the interpretation of Alkan totally uninfluenced by any of the recordings.


M.

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#2140892 - 08/29/13 06:09 PM Re: Horowitz: The Stars & Stripes Forever - or, is it? [Re: pianoloverus]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2610
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Stars and Stripes with strategic addition by Benjamin Grosvenor and friend:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IPkNbuaSAg


Have already seen this one - thanks for posting it!

Very funny stuff, indeed.

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#2140900 - 08/29/13 06:36 PM Re: Horowitz: The Stars & Stripes Forever - or, is it? [Re: Michael Sayers]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2610
Originally Posted By: Michael Sayers
Raymond Lewenthal might have been led by Nyiregyhazi into Alkan. After one of Nyiregyhazi's performances in the 1940s Raymond got to hear Nyiregyhazi play the entire first movement of Alkan's Concerto with a power and level of technique he would never be able to equal - this is according to the words of a rather long monograph left behind by Raymond of recollections of Nyiregyhazi's performances in the 1940s.


As for Erwin (or, Ervin) Nyiregyhazi, he was a true genius unlike any other pianist in the great long history of musicians as his playing style was unique and there was unbridled raw power displayed in many performances. He also chose much slower tempi in many pieces although his balance of timing and proportion is otherworldly perfect as for the musical ideas that he wants to project to the listener.

Here is a new video of a very rare live concert:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vcqb4VaAq3I

His sound was incomparable!

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#2140902 - 08/29/13 06:43 PM Re: Horowitz: The Stars & Stripes Forever - or, is it? [Re: pv88]
Polyphonist Online   content
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7514
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: pv88
[quote=Michael Sayers]As for Erwin (or, Ervin) Nyiregyhazi, he was a true genius unlike any other pianist in the great long history of musicians.

This is a VERY controversial statement. What makes you think that only he was a genius, and Bach, Beethoven, Chopin, Rachmaninoff, Horowitz, etc, were not?
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

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#2140907 - 08/29/13 06:56 PM Re: Horowitz: The Stars & Stripes Forever - or, is it? [Re: Polyphonist]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2610
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: pv88
[quote=Michael Sayers]As for Erwin (or, Ervin) Nyiregyhazi, he was a true genius unlike any other pianist in the great long history of musicians.

This is a VERY controversial statement. What makes you think that only he was a genius, and Bach, Beethoven, Chopin, Rachmaninoff, Horowitz, etc, were not?


Please note I am not making a comparison of talent/genius as you implied with your question, above.

Let me clarify this by saying it is his unique playing style, choice of tempi, and sound, which makes him stand out from the crowd. No one else "plays" like he does.

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#2140908 - 08/29/13 06:59 PM Re: Horowitz: The Stars & Stripes Forever - or, is it? [Re: pv88]
Kuanpiano Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/06/10
Posts: 2117
Loc: Canada
I think you're reading it wrong....the word unlike is meaning to be a unique genius in his own right, rather than being a genius and everybody else ordinary.

Edit: pv88 beat me to it.


Edited by Kuanpiano (08/29/13 06:59 PM)
_________________________
Working on:
Beethoven - Piano Sonata op. 109
Brahms - 6 Klavierstucke op. 119
Rachmaninoff - Piano Sonata no.1

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#2140912 - 08/29/13 07:04 PM Re: Horowitz: The Stars & Stripes Forever - or, is it? [Re: Kuanpiano]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2610
Originally Posted By: Kuanpiano
I think you're reading it wrong....the word unlike is meaning to be a unique genius in his own right, rather than being a genius and everybody else ordinary.


Thanks, as that is exactly what I intended to convey, in words.

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#2141659 - 08/31/13 04:06 AM Re: Horowitz: The Stars & Stripes Forever - or, is it? [Re: pv88]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2610
Here's a short excerpt of my own playing (at the Clavinova CLP-480) of "The Stars and Stripes Forever" (Sousa-Horowitz) as I made use of the free score posted earlier in the thread:

https://app.box.com/s/33352vxz78p98bvrojio

Extra note:

I have been having an issue with sensitivity in my index finger of the R.H. so I am not going to play more than the 20 measures given, as this is due to a lot of clicking of the mouse and typing at the computer.

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