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#2140359 - 08/28/13 05:50 PM Guidance needed for buying a new DP
Pianist93 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/28/13
Posts: 18
Alright, so here's the problem: I currently own a Casio CDP-200R. I'll just say it bluntly- It's a terrible instrument. The action is as bad as it can get on a DP, and the sound from the speakers is unappealing too (although the headphones sound is not bad). The problem I face with it is that whenever I have to go and perform somewhere, I'm not able to get accustomed to the feel of the acoustic piano. The keys of an acoustic are way heavier than it and are much more comfortable to press. I also have problems bringing out the dynamics because of this. Not to mention, I rarely use the sostenuto pedal because of my inexperience with it.
Now I finally have the opurtunity to buy a new DP. blush However, I'd like to buy a digital piano with qualities as close as possible to a grand piano (obviously in the given price range). I'm quite attracted to the Kawai's CA-63. However, I've heard a lot about CA-65 (mainly because of the grand feel action, the let off and the triple sensor system). Please tell me how useful these three features are. I'm asking this because the CA-65 is a bit out of budget for me. But I might just be able to afford it if it really is worth it.
I've had a look at Roland. It has a pretty impressive lineup but those pianos are extremely pricey and offer much less in the same price range as Kawai's pianos.
Also, please fill me in about the Yamaha. Does the clavinova series have anything good to offer? Replies are much appreciated.
Just an FYI, I don't know how to grade myself on my level of playing, but technically, I'm fairly advanced. I completed my grade 8 quite some time back. However, I lack the emotional maturity needed to execute the pieces flawlessly and that's mainly because of the instrument I practice on 24/7. So, please suggest me keeping these things in mind. Thank you. smile

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#2140366 - 08/28/13 06:08 PM Re: Guidance needed for buying a new DP [Re: Pianist93]
MacMacMac Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 3824
Loc: North Carolina
You said ...
Originally Posted By: Pianist93
I'd like to buy a digital piano with qualities as close as possible to a grand piano.
There is simply no such thing. None are really close to sounding like a grand. So you'll just have to try out the pianos and pick the one you like best. I'd ignore the specs and rely on my own senses to judge the touch and sound.

You've already mentioned some very good pianos. But is the CA65 worthy enough to justify going over budget? You are the ONLY judge of that.

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#2140418 - 08/28/13 07:38 PM Re: Guidance needed for buying a new DP [Re: Pianist93]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9196
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Pianist93, my recommendation would be to visit piano dealers in your area to get a feel for the different brands and models available. I believe this will be rather more beneficial than asking other users for suggestions.

Best of luck!

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2140424 - 08/28/13 08:01 PM Re: Guidance needed for buying a new DP [Re: Pianist93]
emenelton Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/02/09
Posts: 485
Kawai ES7

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#2140427 - 08/28/13 08:06 PM Re: Guidance needed for buying a new DP [Re: Pianist93]
Amaruk Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/02/11
Posts: 802
Loc: New England, USA
Originally Posted By: Pianist93
I completed my grade 8 quite some time back. However, I lack the emotional maturity needed to execute the pieces flawlessly and that's mainly because of the instrument I practice on 24/7.


Did you consider buying a used acoustic piano? You could then use your Casio for silent practice sessions and the AP for all other occasions.
_________________________
My piano channel on YouTube: Link

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#2140441 - 08/28/13 09:28 PM Re: Guidance needed for buying a new DP [Re: Pianist93]
Michael_99 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/28/12
Posts: 935
Loc: Canada Alberta
Pianist93, I have read your post, here:

re Guidance needed for buying a new DP

Alright, so here's the problem: I currently own a Casio CDP-200R. I'll just say it bluntly- It's a terrible instrument. The action is as bad as it can get on a DP, and the sound from the speakers is unappealing too (although the headphones sound is not bad). The problem I face with it is that whenever I have to go and perform somewhere, I'm not able to get accustomed to the feel of the acoustic piano. The keys of an acoustic are way heavier than it and are much more comfortable to press. I also have problems bringing out the dynamics because of this. Not to mention, I rarely use the sostenuto pedal because of my inexperience with it.
Now I finally have the opurtunity to buy a new DP. blush However, I'd like to buy a digital piano with qualities as close as possible to a grand piano (obviously in the given price range). I'm quite attracted to the Kawai's CA-63. However, I've heard a lot about CA-65 (mainly because of the grand feel action, the let off and the triple sensor system). Please tell me how useful these three features are. I'm asking this because the CA-65 is a bit out of budget for me. But I might just be able to afford it if it really is worth it.
I've had a look at Roland. It has a pretty impressive lineup but those pianos are extremely pricey and offer much less in the same price range as Kawai's pianos.
Also, please fill me in about the Yamaha. Does the clavinova series have anything good to offer? Replies are much appreciated.
Just an FYI, I don't know how to grade myself on my level of playing, but technically, I'm fairly advanced. I completed my grade 8 quite some time back. However, I lack the emotional maturity needed to execute the pieces flawlessly and that's mainly because of the instrument I practice on 24/7. So, please suggest me keeping these things in mind. Thank you. smile

_________________________________________________________________

as I understand your post, Pianist93, you are not happy with your instrument (piano) and you consider yourself an advanced player.

as a beginner piano player, you are advised to be guided by advanced piano players who are knowledgeable and very experienced and post, here in this forum.

In a word it comes down to money - and what you can live with and what you can't live with.

I had a clavinova CLP-50, 20 year old digital piano. I played it for a year and loved playing as a beginner piano player. I learned the basics of playing the piano on it and loved it very, very much. But I knew a lot less than you know because you say you are around a grade 8 piano player and I am a beginner now of 2 years. I knew that my digital was awesome but I also knew that an acoustic was very different from a digital. So I went looking for a piano and found one and it too, is awesome.

Now back to the money word. I think my clavinova cost me about $3,000 Canadian in 1988 - I think - Today digital pianos like the clavinova 88 weighted keys - cost $600 for Yam P95 so dirt, dirt cheap. The salesman told me I could get a casio for quiet a bit less but I told the salesman that everything I have is a Yamaha - be it motorcycles, saxaphones, sub woofers, CD players, so I wanted to stay with a brand that I knew and trusted.

After a year I got an acoustic 3 legged, as I said, secondhand but it cost big bucks and I love it - all 88 keys.

Now about the money. I live in a shack with holes in the walls but I am happy with the piano.
Probably nobody on the planet would consider living in my shack - even if they were paid.

So I see the world differently than most.

I am humbled to have a piano be it a digital or an acoustic because I need a piano to make myself happy. Most people couldn't believe I would buy an expensive piano when I live in a shack, but I thought it was the right thing to do.

I think that people who want to get or buy a piano - they should buy a piano they can afford because they can always get a better piano when they have more money saved and in the meantime they are able to play what they have.

When you say, Pianist93, Alright, so here's the problem: I currently own a Casio CDP-200R. I'll just say it bluntly- It's a terrible instrument. The action is as bad as it can get on a DP, and the sound from the speakers is unappealing too (although the headphones sound is not bad). The problem I face with it is that whenever I have to go and perform somewhere, I'm not able to get accustomed to the feel of the acoustic piano.

You are absolutely correct that it can be difficult to adjust to the acoustic after playing the digital. I play my p95 and my acoustic all the time so you can adjust to both but it takes time.

when you say, Pianist98, The keys of an acoustic are way heavier than the digital and are much more comfortable to press. I also have problems bringing out the dynamics because of this. Not to mention, I rarely use the sostenuto pedal because of my inexperience with it.

You are absolutely correct, the touch of an acoustic is nice and dynamics can be challenging on a digital. I never use the pedal because I am still a beginner piano player and it has just been introduced.


when you say Pianist98, Now I finally have the opurtunity to buy a new DP. blush However, I'd like to buy a digital piano with qualities as close as possible to a grand piano (obviously in the given price range). I'm quite attracted to the Kawai's CA-63. However, I've heard a lot about CA-65 (mainly because of the grand feel action, the let off and the triple sensor system). Please tell me how useful these three features are. I'm asking this because the CA-65 is a bit out of budget for me. But I might just be able to afford it if it really is worth it.
I've had a look at Roland. It has a pretty impressive lineup but those pianos are extremely pricey and offer much less in the same price range as Kawai's pianos.
Also, please fill me in about the Yamaha. Does the clavinova series have anything good to offer? Replies are much appreciated.
Just an FYI, I don't know how to grade myself on my level of playing, but technically, I'm fairly advanced. I completed my grade 8 quite some time back. However, I lack the emotional maturity needed to execute the pieces flawlessly and that's mainly because of the instrument I practice on 24/7. So, please suggest me keeping these things in mind. Thank you. smile

As a beginner piano player, and possible you with more experience know the difference between an acoustic and a digital. I say that all the digitals seems the same to me with minor differences, but it appears the rest of the world thinks all digitals are vastly different and worth the money for the difference. Again it is the money thing. But you are in a better postion than I am because I am a beginner piano and you have learned up to grade 8 piano.

I play 24/7, too, but I live in a shack and if you live with people that may not like hearing someone play a piano, then you might have to consider a digital.

You have played an acoustic and you have played a digital - what do you think?

I went to a piano store and I play several expensive digitals including the Advan-guard - whatever it is called and - none of the seemed like an acoustic - which cost just a little more than the 12,000 Canadian of the digital Advan-guard.

3G28CASDF

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#2140463 - 08/28/13 10:51 PM Re: Guidance needed for buying a new DP [Re: Amaruk]
Morodiene Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 11966
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted By: Amaruk
Originally Posted By: Pianist93
I completed my grade 8 quite some time back. However, I lack the emotional maturity needed to execute the pieces flawlessly and that's mainly because of the instrument I practice on 24/7.


Did you consider buying a used acoustic piano? You could then use your Casio for silent practice sessions and the AP for all other occasions.
I second this. If you are serious, then an acoustic piano (preferably grand) is the way to go.

However if that is really not a possibility, go try out as many DPs as you can within your budget, and buy the one you like the sound and feel of the most. Then find yourself a church or school that would allow you to practice on their piano once a week or so. Maybe you can trade-out practice time at a church for playing for a service.
_________________________
private piano/voice teacher - full time
MTNA member
www.valeoconservatory.com
Petrof 9'2 Concert, Yamaha G3, Roland FP-7, Yamaha MOX6, Kawai MP11

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#2140548 - 08/29/13 03:42 AM Re: Guidance needed for buying a new DP [Re: Pianist93]
Pianist93 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/28/13
Posts: 18
Thank you so much for your replies. Please tell me if there are Yamaha models better than CA-63/65. I do realise that I will have to decide that myself. But I need an opinion based on other pianists' suggestions too. So, please reply with model numbers.

@Emenelton: I just checked ES7 out and it undoubtedly has a lot to offer. But it doesn't have wooden keys. So, I wouldn't consider it. Thanks for the reply though. smile

Also, I am not buying an acoustic for a reason: I practice at night too. And there are times I have to practice with headphones on. So, I'd prefer to not have an acoustic. And I know it for a fact that cheap acoustic aren't better than good digital. Silent pianos are awesome I know. But they are really pricey. However, if you have good suggestions for acoustic, do mention them and please make sure they cost around $3000. It turns out that Kawai can get an acoustic upgraded to a silent.

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#2140573 - 08/29/13 07:14 AM Re: Guidance needed for buying a new DP [Re: Pianist93]
dire tonic Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/17/11
Posts: 1282
Loc: uk south
Originally Posted By: Pianist93

@Emenelton: I just checked ES7 out and it undoubtedly has a lot to offer. But it doesn't have wooden keys. So, I wouldn't consider it. Thanks for the reply though. smile



VPC1 + software piano?

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#2140589 - 08/29/13 08:31 AM Re: Guidance needed for buying a new DP [Re: Pianist93]
Morodiene Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 11966
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted By: Pianist93
Thank you so much for your replies. Please tell me if there are Yamaha models better than CA-63/65. I do realise that I will have to decide that myself. But I need an opinion based on other pianists' suggestions too. So, please reply with model numbers.

@Emenelton: I just checked ES7 out and it undoubtedly has a lot to offer. But it doesn't have wooden keys. So, I wouldn't consider it. Thanks for the reply though. smile

Also, I am not buying an acoustic for a reason: I practice at night too. And there are times I have to practice with headphones on. So, I'd prefer to not have an acoustic. And I know it for a fact that cheap acoustic aren't better than good digital. Silent pianos are awesome I know. But they are really pricey. However, if you have good suggestions for acoustic, do mention them and please make sure they cost around $3000. It turns out that Kawai can get an acoustic upgraded to a silent.
I can't recommend any because I don't know where you live. You would be looking on the used market, but you *can* get a nice upright in that price range. I'm thinking Kawai or Yamaha uprights.

Don't get me wrong, I love digitals, and you'll want to keep yours for practicing at night, but then use the acoustic for practicing at other times. It sounds to me like you're performing frequently on acoustic pianos, and so somewhat advanced. As far as DPs have come, they still do not match a *good* acoustic. In your budget you should be able to find a very good used upright. You may be able to find a baby grand, but the quality won't be there, for sure.

edited to add: I was just thinking, you can also look into brands like Hailun. I think in that price range you could probably get new. Kawais and Yamahas are great (in both DPs and APs), but in APs you do pay for the name. There are many nice brands that you can actually get more for your money with. The Hailuns are highly rated, but I've never played one myself.


Edited by Morodiene (08/29/13 08:33 AM)
_________________________
private piano/voice teacher - full time
MTNA member
www.valeoconservatory.com
Petrof 9'2 Concert, Yamaha G3, Roland FP-7, Yamaha MOX6, Kawai MP11

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#2140594 - 08/29/13 08:48 AM Re: Guidance needed for buying a new DP [Re: Pianist93]
Deffie Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 06/02/10
Posts: 170
Originally Posted By: Pianist93

...

@Emenelton: I just checked ES7 out and it undoubtedly has a lot to offer. But it doesn't have wooden keys. So, I wouldn't consider it. Thanks for the reply though. smile
...



While I personally prefer the wooden Kawai actions, I would highly encourage you to not disregard other pianos just because they don't have wooden keys. While I wouldn't go so far as to call wooden keys a gimmick (as it does feel different to me), there are some very good plastic actions out there as well.

And just to point out, other than a few from Kawai and Yamaha, all DPs use plastic keys, even the high-end Rolands.
_________________________
Playing since April 2010.
Kawai MP10

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#2140601 - 08/29/13 09:08 AM Re: Guidance needed for buying a new DP [Re: Morodiene]
Pianist93 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/28/13
Posts: 18
I'm sorry I forgot to tell you where I live. I live in India. The main piano brands here are: Kawai, Yamaha, Casio, Roland, Korg, Steinway (every steinway is out of budget for me though). Yeah I agree that a *good* acoustic is undoubtedly better than a digital. Digitals are an imitation anyway. If it was not for the recording features, I wouldn't have given them much consideration. The thing is, I also plan to promote myself on youtube. And I'm pretty serious about it. That's why I'm a bit inclined towards the digitals as they offer direct recording in formats such as mp3 and wav. On top of that, I can't simply ignore the "action". I want myself to be comfortable playing an acoustic after practicing on a digital. I can look into used pianos but as I just said, I plan to have a future on Youtube too and I just don't have the necessary equipment to do a high quality recording using mics.
@diretonic: I'm visiting the Kawai store in the next few days. I'll look into that as well. Thanks smile
@Deffie: Hmmm. When you mention Roland, I can't really argue with you on that smile. Speaking of gimmicks, do you think that the kawai's let off is a gimmick, I've heard much about it being one.
Thank you everyone for your replies smile

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#2140606 - 08/29/13 09:20 AM Re: Guidance needed for buying a new DP [Re: Pianist93]
Morodiene Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 11966
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted By: Pianist93
I'm sorry I forgot to tell you where I live. I live in India. The main piano brands here are: Kawai, Yamaha, Casio, Roland, Korg, Steinway (every steinway is out of budget for me though). Yeah I agree that a *good* acoustic is undoubtedly better than a digital. Digitals are an imitation anyway. If it was not for the recording features, I wouldn't have given them much consideration. The thing is, I also plan to promote myself on youtube. And I'm pretty serious about it. That's why I'm a bit inclined towards the digitals as they offer direct recording in formats such as mp3 and wav. On top of that, I can't simply ignore the "action". I want myself to be comfortable playing an acoustic after practicing on a digital. I can look into used pianos but as I just said, I plan to have a future on Youtube too and I just don't have the necessary equipment to do a high quality recording using mics.
@diretonic: I'm visiting the Kawai store in the next few days. I'll look into that as well. Thanks smile
@Deffie: Hmmm. When you mention Roland, I can't really argue with you on that smile. Speaking of gimmicks, do you think that the kawai's let off is a gimmick, I've heard much about it being one.
Thank you everyone for your replies smile


In that case, definitely try out as many DPs as you can. Go mainly for the action, vs. the sound. You can always change the sound by using a software piano sound, but the action you're pretty much stuck with, so you have to love it.

Touch is such personal preference thing. All of the brands you're considering are good quality in that price range, so it's going to come down to how it feels to you.
_________________________
private piano/voice teacher - full time
MTNA member
www.valeoconservatory.com
Petrof 9'2 Concert, Yamaha G3, Roland FP-7, Yamaha MOX6, Kawai MP11

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#2140662 - 08/29/13 11:31 AM Re: Guidance needed for buying a new DP [Re: Pianist93]
emenelton Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/02/09
Posts: 485
Pianist93

When I suggested the ES7, I did so because I thought from your original post that you were looking for a portable solution.
The only suggestion I could make is; don't allow your experience with an extremely low end CDP force you to go overboard in the other direction.
All acoustic pianos (well almost all) have different weights and feel. A professional piano player basically gets to experience different piano actions depending on the gig and has to adapt.

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#2140737 - 08/29/13 01:07 PM Re: Guidance needed for buying a new DP [Re: Pianist93]
voxpops Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3050
Loc: Oregon
In my opinion, the OP needs a DP that is capable of subtle, nuanced response, and with a sound engine to match. I would suggest that there is little available below $2k (US) that will fit the bill. Although no current DP can truly replicate the experience of playing a real grand piano, the Roland FP-80 (or discontinued FP-7F - may be cheaper) will enable the OP to practice to the level required. I suspect that the ES7, as recommended by emenelton, is equally capable. It's a matter of preference between the two.

Sub $2k, the latest Privia range is worth checking out for comparison, but despite their many good qualities, I doubt whether they can provide the refinement that will be necessary. Similarly, I don't think the Yamaha P-155 is quite up to it either.
_________________________
Occasional author and inveterate ivory tickler:
http://www.amazon.com/author/richardspanswick

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#2141213 - 08/30/13 07:32 AM Re: Guidance needed for buying a new DP [Re: Pianist93]
Pianist93 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/28/13
Posts: 18
@morodiene I agree with that. The sound can always be changed using virtual instruments smile
@emenelton: Sorry about that. I'm not planning to take portability into consideration. It's fine by me if it is non portable. And I agree that all the acoustic pianos have different feels. Afterall, no two models can have exactly the same touch. But playing on different APs is not a tough job if one already practices on an acoustic OR a really good DP.
@voxpops I'm fine with pianos with prices around 3000$. And I want the piano to have good action and recording capabilities. For instance: The CA 65 has a really good action and has a feature with enables the user to record the performances directly into the pendrive in mp3 format.
Thank you all for your replies smile

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