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#2140834 - 08/29/13 03:48 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: bennevis]
laguna_greg Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/02/13
Posts: 1382
Loc: guess where in CA and WA
Ben,

It has been my experience that good music of any kind sells itself when it is well performed. it's ironic that we all think we need to "market the product", when all it needs, really, is to presented well and clearly to the public.
_________________________
Laguna Greg

1919 Mason & Hamlin AA
1931 Bechstein C - now sold
http://www.triangleassociates-us.com/about_us (my day job)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorothy_Taubman (a recent article I wrote about one of my teachers)

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#2140861 - 08/29/13 04:56 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Nikolas]
jdw Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/04/11
Posts: 995
Loc: Philadelphia, PA
Originally Posted By: Nikolas
Actually I stopped twice... Left the violinist playing on his own... No other wrong notes or anything. but stopping for me is the apotheosis of errors! You lose the rhythm, the flow, the continuity, the essence of music is you stopped. And I did it twice!


Stopping--that's nothing! The audience probably thought the violinist had a cadenza.

Actually, I once was singing an aria when the pianist stopped. I kept going for a few measures but lost it where the piano was supposed to cue me. Luckily it was near the start in an amateur performance before tolerant folks, so we just started over and all was good. (Ok, I'm a soprano, but not the sort who gets carried by anybody.)
_________________________
1989 Baldwin R
Currently working on:
Grieg, Papillon
Mozart, K 330
Brahms, Op. 118 no. 2

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#2141348 - 08/30/13 12:27 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Mark_C]
Pogorelich. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4528
Loc: in the past
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
I'm almost disappointed when they don't applaud between movements of certain pieces. grin


YES. They used to do it all the time... and some endings obviously beg for it. The first piece that pops into my head is the 1st movement of the Debussy violin sonata. That NEEDS applause. And of course there was that time when we played it at a rich donor's house, who had invited many of his friends (really nice people, not musicians) and they of course applauded after that movement. It felt right! And then the 2nd movement definitely does not need it, it kind of melts into the 3rd, and then you have your finale.

Anyway...
_________________________

'I want to invest my emotions only in music; it will never disappoint me or hurt me - it is a safe place to be.'

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#2141351 - 08/30/13 12:31 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Nikolas]
Pogorelich. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4528
Loc: in the past
Originally Posted By: Nikolas
I love being applaud... Why on earth not?

I remember one time in Syria (back in 2000 or so, when things were fine there), I went with a violinist to play a piece, and I literally butchered the piece! Yet the Syrians and French (it was the ECUME meeting) were clapping like nuts. I wanted to die, but the violinist was loving it and thus we just went in and out about 5 times...

Then I got scolded by our teacher that we should enjoy it... and that's what I've been doing ever since! laugh


HAHA!!! I so know what you mean... I've had so many of those! But it's true though - when you feel you've played like sh--, the last thing you want is to put on a goofy smile and bow like the queen of the world. My teacher gave me a whole lecture about this after one recital, he was so mad at me... it was all, "I don't give a **** if you think you played like ****, you smile graciously and bow properly, damn it! You are thanking people for taking the time to see you play and accepting their praise." etc etc. Ugh. In fact, I was almost so annoyed by my playing, and the applause made me feel so uncomfortable, that they actually had to edit out my bowing in the videos....... for every single piece.......


Edited by Pogorelich. (08/30/13 12:35 PM)
_________________________

'I want to invest my emotions only in music; it will never disappoint me or hurt me - it is a safe place to be.'

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#2141353 - 08/30/13 12:34 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Pogorelich.]
Polyphonist Online   content
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7648
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
Originally Posted By: Nikolas
I love being applaud... Why on earth not?

I remember one time in Syria (back in 2000 or so, when things were fine there), I went with a violinist to play a piece, and I literally butchered the piece! Yet the Syrians and French (it was the ECUME meeting) were clapping like nuts. I wanted to die, but the violinist was loving it and thus we just went in and out about 5 times...

Then I got scolded by our teacher that we should enjoy it... and that's what I've been doing ever since! laugh


HAHA!!! I so know what you mean... I've had so many of those! But it's true though - when you feel you've played like sh--, the last thing you want is to put on a goofy smile and bow like the queen of the world. My teacher gave me a whole lecture about this after one recital, he was so mad at me... it was all, "I don't give a **** if you think you played like ****, you smile graciously and bow properly, damn it! You are thanking people for taking the time to see you play and accepting their praise." etc etc. Ugh. In fact, I was almost so annoyed by the applause that they actually had to edit out my bowing in the videos....... for every single piece.......

You don't have to smile. For some pieces it looks stupid, and it's never necessary.
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

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#2141354 - 08/30/13 12:36 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Polyphonist]
Pogorelich. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4528
Loc: in the past
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
Originally Posted By: Nikolas
I love being applaud... Why on earth not?

I remember one time in Syria (back in 2000 or so, when things were fine there), I went with a violinist to play a piece, and I literally butchered the piece! Yet the Syrians and French (it was the ECUME meeting) were clapping like nuts. I wanted to die, but the violinist was loving it and thus we just went in and out about 5 times...

Then I got scolded by our teacher that we should enjoy it... and that's what I've been doing ever since! laugh


HAHA!!! I so know what you mean... I've had so many of those! But it's true though - when you feel you've played like sh--, the last thing you want is to put on a goofy smile and bow like the queen of the world. My teacher gave me a whole lecture about this after one recital, he was so mad at me... it was all, "I don't give a **** if you think you played like ****, you smile graciously and bow properly, damn it! You are thanking people for taking the time to see you play and accepting their praise." etc etc. Ugh. In fact, I was almost so annoyed by the applause that they actually had to edit out my bowing in the videos....... for every single piece.......

You don't have to smile. For some pieces it looks stupid, and it's never necessary.


I know that.... I'm not an idiot. Like Prokofiev 6th sonata or something. I wasn't playing anything that heavy at said recital. Also, I think on the 2nd or 3rd bow it's okay to smile a bit - nicely, no matter the piece.
_________________________

'I want to invest my emotions only in music; it will never disappoint me or hurt me - it is a safe place to be.'

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#2141358 - 08/30/13 12:39 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Pogorelich.]
Polyphonist Online   content
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7648
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
Originally Posted By: Nikolas
I love being applaud... Why on earth not?

I remember one time in Syria (back in 2000 or so, when things were fine there), I went with a violinist to play a piece, and I literally butchered the piece! Yet the Syrians and French (it was the ECUME meeting) were clapping like nuts. I wanted to die, but the violinist was loving it and thus we just went in and out about 5 times...

Then I got scolded by our teacher that we should enjoy it... and that's what I've been doing ever since! laugh


HAHA!!! I so know what you mean... I've had so many of those! But it's true though - when you feel you've played like sh--, the last thing you want is to put on a goofy smile and bow like the queen of the world. My teacher gave me a whole lecture about this after one recital, he was so mad at me... it was all, "I don't give a **** if you think you played like ****, you smile graciously and bow properly, damn it! You are thanking people for taking the time to see you play and accepting their praise." etc etc. Ugh. In fact, I was almost so annoyed by the applause that they actually had to edit out my bowing in the videos....... for every single piece.......

You don't have to smile. For some pieces it looks stupid, and it's never necessary.


I know that.... I'm not an idiot. Like Prokofiev 6th sonata or something. I wasn't playing anything that heavy at said recital. Also, I think on the 2nd or 3rd bow it's okay to smile a bit - nicely, no matter the piece.

My point was, you don't have to smile at any time after any piece, and you certainly should NOT smile after finishing Opus 111 or the Chopin Opus 35.
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

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#2141360 - 08/30/13 12:44 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Polyphonist]
Pogorelich. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4528
Loc: in the past
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
Originally Posted By: Nikolas
I love being applaud... Why on earth not?

I remember one time in Syria (back in 2000 or so, when things were fine there), I went with a violinist to play a piece, and I literally butchered the piece! Yet the Syrians and French (it was the ECUME meeting) were clapping like nuts. I wanted to die, but the violinist was loving it and thus we just went in and out about 5 times...

Then I got scolded by our teacher that we should enjoy it... and that's what I've been doing ever since! laugh


HAHA!!! I so know what you mean... I've had so many of those! But it's true though - when you feel you've played like sh--, the last thing you want is to put on a goofy smile and bow like the queen of the world. My teacher gave me a whole lecture about this after one recital, he was so mad at me... it was all, "I don't give a **** if you think you played like ****, you smile graciously and bow properly, damn it! You are thanking people for taking the time to see you play and accepting their praise." etc etc. Ugh. In fact, I was almost so annoyed by the applause that they actually had to edit out my bowing in the videos....... for every single piece.......

You don't have to smile. For some pieces it looks stupid, and it's never necessary.


I know that.... I'm not an idiot. Like Prokofiev 6th sonata or something. I wasn't playing anything that heavy at said recital. Also, I think on the 2nd or 3rd bow it's okay to smile a bit - nicely, no matter the piece.

My point was, you don't have to smile at any time after any piece, and you certainly should NOT smile after finishing Opus 111 or the Chopin Opus 35.


Fine, be hostile to the audience after you're done then, Jesus.
_________________________

'I want to invest my emotions only in music; it will never disappoint me or hurt me - it is a safe place to be.'

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#2141361 - 08/30/13 12:45 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Pogorelich.]
Polyphonist Online   content
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7648
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
Originally Posted By: Nikolas
I love being applaud... Why on earth not?

I remember one time in Syria (back in 2000 or so, when things were fine there), I went with a violinist to play a piece, and I literally butchered the piece! Yet the Syrians and French (it was the ECUME meeting) were clapping like nuts. I wanted to die, but the violinist was loving it and thus we just went in and out about 5 times...

Then I got scolded by our teacher that we should enjoy it... and that's what I've been doing ever since! laugh


HAHA!!! I so know what you mean... I've had so many of those! But it's true though - when you feel you've played like sh--, the last thing you want is to put on a goofy smile and bow like the queen of the world. My teacher gave me a whole lecture about this after one recital, he was so mad at me... it was all, "I don't give a **** if you think you played like ****, you smile graciously and bow properly, damn it! You are thanking people for taking the time to see you play and accepting their praise." etc etc. Ugh. In fact, I was almost so annoyed by the applause that they actually had to edit out my bowing in the videos....... for every single piece.......

You don't have to smile. For some pieces it looks stupid, and it's never necessary.


I know that.... I'm not an idiot. Like Prokofiev 6th sonata or something. I wasn't playing anything that heavy at said recital. Also, I think on the 2nd or 3rd bow it's okay to smile a bit - nicely, no matter the piece.

My point was, you don't have to smile at any time after any piece, and you certainly should NOT smile after finishing Opus 111 or the Chopin Opus 35.


Fine, be hostile to the audience after you're done then, Jesus.

The only way to be hostile to the audience is to not bow at all or to look murderous. There's a large spectrum.
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

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#2141362 - 08/30/13 12:46 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: laguna_greg]
beet31425 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/09
Posts: 3810
Loc: Bay Area, CA
After playing I like to look down coldly at my audience, expressionless, distant. If I do smile, it's only a condescending twinge, as if to say: "This thing I just did, you could never do it."


-J
_________________________
Schubert: Bb Impromptu D.935/3; Mozart: D minor concerto; Chopin: first Ballade

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#2141365 - 08/30/13 12:52 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: beet31425]
Polyphonist Online   content
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7648
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: beet31425
After playing I like to look down coldly at my audience, expressionless, distant. If I do smile, it's only a condescending twinge, as if to say: "This thing I just did, you could never do it."
-J

There's a large difference between expressionless/distant/condescending and simply not putting on a big fake smile.
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

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#2141372 - 08/30/13 01:11 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Polyphonist]
Pogorelich. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4528
Loc: in the past
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: beet31425
After playing I like to look down coldly at my audience, expressionless, distant. If I do smile, it's only a condescending twinge, as if to say: "This thing I just did, you could never do it."
-J

There's a large difference between expressionless/distant/condescending and simply not putting on a big fake smile.


It doesn't have to be fake smile I think on the 2nd bow and on, it is perfectly acceptable to smile.
_________________________

'I want to invest my emotions only in music; it will never disappoint me or hurt me - it is a safe place to be.'

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#2141375 - 08/30/13 01:16 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Pogorelich.]
Polyphonist Online   content
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7648
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: beet31425
After playing I like to look down coldly at my audience, expressionless, distant. If I do smile, it's only a condescending twinge, as if to say: "This thing I just did, you could never do it."
-J

There's a large difference between expressionless/distant/condescending and simply not putting on a big fake smile.


It doesn't have to be fake smile I think on the 2nd bow and on, it is perfectly acceptable to smile.

After finishing the Appassionata, or the Chopin 2nd?
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

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#2141381 - 08/30/13 01:28 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Polyphonist]
Pogorelich. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4528
Loc: in the past
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: beet31425
After playing I like to look down coldly at my audience, expressionless, distant. If I do smile, it's only a condescending twinge, as if to say: "This thing I just did, you could never do it."
-J

There's a large difference between expressionless/distant/condescending and simply not putting on a big fake smile.


It doesn't have to be fake smile I think on the 2nd bow and on, it is perfectly acceptable to smile.

After finishing the Appassionata, or the Chopin 2nd?


Why not? It's fine to create the needed atmosphere after the piece is finished, but nothing wrong with being a little bit graceful after a while. Like I said, after the 2nd bow it's fine. I don't see the big dilemma here.
_________________________

'I want to invest my emotions only in music; it will never disappoint me or hurt me - it is a safe place to be.'

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#2141384 - 08/30/13 01:29 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: laguna_greg]
Pogorelich. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4528
Loc: in the past
(And I thought at first you were talking about op. 111, not Appassionata?)
_________________________

'I want to invest my emotions only in music; it will never disappoint me or hurt me - it is a safe place to be.'

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#2141385 - 08/30/13 01:32 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: beet31425]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19797
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: beet31425
After playing I like to look down coldly at my audience, expressionless, distant. If I do smile, it's only a condescending twinge, as if to say: "This thing I just did, you could never do it."

That's what I do if I'm in a good mood. Otherwise I give them the finger.

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#2141389 - 08/30/13 01:37 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Mark_C]
JoelW Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 4825
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: beet31425
After playing I like to look down coldly at my audience, expressionless, distant. If I do smile, it's only a condescending twinge, as if to say: "This thing I just did, you could never do it."

That's what I do if I'm in a good mood. Otherwise I give them the finger.


grin

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#2141394 - 08/30/13 01:43 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Polyphonist]
beet31425 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/09
Posts: 3810
Loc: Bay Area, CA
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
After finishing the Appassionata, or the Chopin 2nd?

I've only performed op.57 a couple times so far, in very informal settings. But when I finish that last movement, and I turn to the listeners, I'm feeling something like: "Oh my god! Did you feel it-- that intensity, drama, tragedy? What was that thing we all just experienced?" And sometimes the right way to acknowledge a shared experience is with a smile. Just to say: "Yes, I felt it too."

-Jason
_________________________
Schubert: Bb Impromptu D.935/3; Mozart: D minor concerto; Chopin: first Ballade

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#2141395 - 08/30/13 01:43 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: JoelW]
Polyphonist Online   content
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7648
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: JoelW
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: beet31425
After playing I like to look down coldly at my audience, expressionless, distant. If I do smile, it's only a condescending twinge, as if to say: "This thing I just did, you could never do it."

That's what I do if I'm in a good mood. Otherwise I give them the finger.


grin

That's what I do when I'm in a good mood. Otherwise I have the backstage assistants bring barrels of mud onto the stage and throw them into the audience.
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

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#2141399 - 08/30/13 01:47 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Polyphonist]
Pogorelich. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4528
Loc: in the past
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: JoelW
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: beet31425
After playing I like to look down coldly at my audience, expressionless, distant. If I do smile, it's only a condescending twinge, as if to say: "This thing I just did, you could never do it."

That's what I do if I'm in a good mood. Otherwise I give them the finger.


grin

That's what I do when I'm in a good mood. Otherwise I have the backstage assistants bring barrels of mud onto the stage and throw them into the audience.


You're all too nice. I usually set the piano on fire before filling the hall with profanities. After that I head to the bar.
_________________________

'I want to invest my emotions only in music; it will never disappoint me or hurt me - it is a safe place to be.'

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#2141400 - 08/30/13 01:49 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Pogorelich.]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19797
Loc: New York
To moderators: Maybe 'sticky' this thread to make it a reference on how to relate to audiences? grin

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#2141408 - 08/30/13 01:59 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Mark_C]
Pogorelich. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4528
Loc: in the past
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
To moderators: Maybe 'sticky' this thread to make it a reference on how to relate to audiences? grin


One time in studio class a student finished playing something, and the teacher asked "What is your biggest enemy when you perform?" (in this case, the answer was "speed", as he sort of rushed through everything because of nerves). He answered "the audience".. hahaha!! Will never forget that.
_________________________

'I want to invest my emotions only in music; it will never disappoint me or hurt me - it is a safe place to be.'

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#2141409 - 08/30/13 02:02 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Pogorelich.]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19797
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
...."What is your biggest enemy when you perform?".....He answered "the audience".. hahaha!!

And of course if it's a concerto, the answer is the orchestra. ha

PDQ Bach did a good job calling it "Concerto for Piano vs. Orchestra." grin

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#2141414 - 08/30/13 02:08 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Mark_C]
beet31425 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/09
Posts: 3810
Loc: Bay Area, CA
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
...."What is your biggest enemy when you perform?".....He answered "the audience".. hahaha!!

And of course if it's a concerto, the answer is the orchestra. ha

PDQ Bach did a good job calling it "Concerto for Piano vs. Orchestra." grin

Karl Haas, in his great old radio show "Adventures in Good Music", once made the point that while the "con" in "concerto" is often thought to mean "together" (as in "concerted effort"), it can just as easily mean "against" (as in "contra" and "conflict").

-J
_________________________
Schubert: Bb Impromptu D.935/3; Mozart: D minor concerto; Chopin: first Ballade

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#2141424 - 08/30/13 02:30 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: beet31425]
bennevis Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/10
Posts: 5265
Originally Posted By: beet31425
After playing I like to look down coldly at my audience, expressionless, distant. If I do smile, it's only a condescending twinge, as if to say: "This thing I just did, you could never do it."


-J


Are you the great (and late) Arturo Benedetti Michelangeli? wink
_________________________
"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."

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#2141548 - 08/30/13 08:39 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: bennevis]
laguna_greg Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/02/13
Posts: 1382
Loc: guess where in CA and WA
Originally Posted By: bennevis
Originally Posted By: beet31425
After playing I like to look down coldly at my audience, expressionless, distant. If I do smile, it's only a condescending twinge, as if to say: "This thing I just did, you could never do it."


-J


Are you the great (and late) Arturo Benedetti Michelangeli? wink


Please ben, he was hardly the only reference who did something like that.
_________________________
Laguna Greg

1919 Mason & Hamlin AA
1931 Bechstein C - now sold
http://www.triangleassociates-us.com/about_us (my day job)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorothy_Taubman (a recent article I wrote about one of my teachers)

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#2141572 - 08/30/13 10:33 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: laguna_greg]
Cinnamonbear Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 3925
Loc: Rockford, IL
I love applause, thank you! Thank you.

(I also love the smell of grease paint.)

Thank you.

Thank you.













thank you.
_________________________
I may not be fast,
but at least I'm slow.

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#2141573 - 08/30/13 10:33 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Cinnamonbear]
Cinnamonbear Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 3925
Loc: Rockford, IL
I like flowers, too.
_________________________
I may not be fast,
but at least I'm slow.

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#2141574 - 08/30/13 10:34 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Cinnamonbear]
Cinnamonbear Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 3925
Loc: Rockford, IL
THANK YOU! ENOUGH ALREADY!!! laugh
_________________________
I may not be fast,
but at least I'm slow.

Top
#2141575 - 08/30/13 10:35 PM Re: How do you Feel about Applause? [Re: Cinnamonbear]
Cinnamonbear Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 3925
Loc: Rockford, IL
Please be seated.
_________________________
I may not be fast,
but at least I'm slow.

Top
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